EV Digest 4721
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: The importance of tires?
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) baldor motor
by "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Attachments
by Chris Taylor Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Help with motor rating - Units, gentlemen
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the
modern world.
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Rear wheel recommendations
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Eliminating Chronic Battery Box Odors
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: The importance of tires?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Rear wheel recommendations
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EVLN(tzero is a reason to not give up on EVs)
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Rear wheel recommendations
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) EVILBUSQuestions
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Was - the importance of tires. NOW : RR vs width
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Rear wheel recommendations Re: Ray
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Rear wheel recommendations
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: electric motorcycle performance
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Help with motor rating - Units, gentlemen
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: OT Troubles with nuclear, was Re: Practical payback???
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: EVILBUSQuestions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Need Fuses
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Contactor controller
by D Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Rear wheel recommendations
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Rear wheel recommendations
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Need Fuses
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: electric motorcycle performance
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) RE: Need Fuses
by "Jeff Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: electric motorcycle performance
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Overall diameter is a function of _both_ the tread width and "series" of
the tire. "60 series" means that the sidewall height is 60% of the
tread width.
Online tire calculator (requires Java) at:
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
cheers,
Andrew
Adam Kinsey wrote:
Both sets of tire have the same overall diameter; the sidewall height of 60
series tires, but the new ones are 195mm wide compared to 185 that will be
10 mm wider. I don't think that you will notice any difference in fuel
consumption, except maybe worse mileage due to more rolling resistance
(wider tires).
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of stu
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:51 AM
To: EV
Subject: The importance of tires?
Yesterday I replaced the Goodyear 185/60/15 OEM tires on my 2001 Ford ZX2 5
speed coupe with Falken 195/60/15 Ziex ZE-512 tires.
I never wore out a set of tires in 22,000 miles before and I was very
disappointed with the original set.
I went up one tire size to add 4% diameter for increased gas economy and to
correct my 4% error in the speedometer/odometer.
I bought the tires on EBay for $185 delivered into my garage and had a buddy
mount and balance them for $20.
On the ride home I was amazed! The car was smoother, and much quieter. I
could not believe that by just changing the tires I would get the feel of a
different car.
It is a real eye opener for me. Has this ever happened to you?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
what do you folks think a baldor forklift 2 HP 36 volt 53 amp 2800 rpm motor
would do in a volkswagen beetle with gears?
Rich
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there anyway to strip the attachments from the message (digest mode)
it seems like it gives me every message twice. in the e-mail and as a
seperate attachment. I can read the message because the attachment list
is so large it fills the screen so I have to open the message in a
seperate window in order to read it :-(
thanks!
Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: Help with motor rating - Units, gentlemen
Hi Jim and All,
A couple of things, most series motors make about 1 ftlb
of torque for 10amps if rpm is about 3000 at rated power that we usually
use as a rule of thumb. If rated at 1500 rpm, about 2ftlbs/10 amps, ect.
YMMV
I'd like to hear this explained and discussed. Who uses this as a rule of
thumb?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
We're probably getting a little OT here, but in the coldest months I use
1.1 - 1.2 Decatherms/Day. Last year the Questar Gas rate was between 8 and
9 dollars per Decatherm. I should also say that my Decatherms/Day number
used to be higher, but the gas bill was getting so expensive that I now
leave the master bedroom thermostat at 55F all winter. We just pile on
extra blankets. Brrr!
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of
the modern world.
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:36:27 -0600, "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>John, $2k savings per year doesn't sound unreasonable to me, depending on
>where you live. I think you're in TN, right? I, however, live in UT, at
>6000 ft. elevation. I have a 3300 sq. ft. home built in 1995, with 6-inch
>exterior wall insulation, Tyvek, radiant floor heat, etc. So it's no
energy
>waster. In the winter, I spend well over $300 per month in gas to heat
>it--probably over $400 this coming year with price increases. Utah is a
>sunny place, though, even when the weather is cold, and my home faces SW.
I
>did some calculations on the amount of insolation we get per day, and I
>don't think that $2000/year fuel cost savings would be out of line.
How much gas does that work out to? I don't have any feel for weather
out there but I did spend 3 years in Pa. I owned a 100 year old
apartment building. After the first $1000/month oil bill, I yanked
out the geezer oil boiler and installed individual gas boilers. My
gas bill in my 1500 sq ft apartment with no insulation other than the
horsehair in the plaster :-) ran under $300/mo even in the coldest
blizzard conditions. That was 20 years ago but still....
Not doubting your word, just trying to grasp that high a heating bill
for a reasonably sized energy efficient home. I'm still having a real
hard time accepting the concept that solar heat can save $2k in a
year. I think I'd have to see the actual data.
Yes, I'm in Southeast TN. Our climate is very temperate but varies
quite a bit. The 2 ft of snow during the blizzard of 92 is one
extreme, a week of single digit temperatures 2 years ago another and
last winter's barely reaching freezing yet another. The major problem
as far as heating goes is the weeks at a time of dense cloud cover.
This stuff hangs close in, makes everything a dull gray and probably
sends the sales of Prozac through the roof. Solar panels just sorta
sit there going "duh". Not even any passive solar heating under those
conditions.
I do use some solar heat in the summer. I have my restaurant's
plumbing arranged so I can toss a hundred feet of black 1" industrial
rubber hose on my flat tar roof and cut it in the hot water path. That
supplies enough hot water for hand and clothes washing and most of
what I use washing dishes. That's about as cheap a solar heater as
one can make :-) Couple hundred bux for the hose and fittings.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
Chris Doolen has converted his Buick and a Fox to trikes and he has driven
them for several years. He has gone from just North of Tampa (near you) to
St. Louis and back several times and he claims good handling. In his cars,
the rear tire was in a well between where the original tires were located.
In my case, the 3rd wheel would be behind the rear bumper and without
500-700 pounds of batteries in the trunk and I believe that the weight
balance from the FWD engine would be well within your parameters for good
handling. Correct so far?
Since you have stated in some of your past posts that a 2F1R would handle
quite well with 70% of the weight up front, I don't quite understand your
thinking in this instant case.
Perhaps a battery box in front of the bumper would be a solution for keeping
the weight over the front axle for a permanent hybrid setup.
In any case, using batteries in the trunk for <45mph runs on electric power
for errands does not seem to get the vehicle into the realm of danger.
If you are looking for slalom racing or high speed driving, that would be
another matter.
I certainly agree with you that majority weight over the front wheels will
make a vehicle go like an arrow with a feather tail.
Thanks again,
stU
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jerry dycus
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 12:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Rear wheel recommendations
Hi Stu and All,
Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 1:54 PM
Subject: Rear wheel recommendations
> I want to convert a FWD to a trike. The single rear wheel will have to
> carry twice the load and a bit more if I add batteries in the trunk for a
> hybrid.
This has to be the dumbest thing I have heard recently. Has none
of my posts sunk in? Are you delibrately making statements to see yourself
online or piss people off?
Doing the above will mean it will be so squirrelly you may not
even get out of the driveway.
Repeat after me, Equal weight on each wheel, again? Just what
about that don't you understand?
Any weight over, around the single wheel makes you more likely to
flip. The single wheel can only have 1/3 of the vehicle weight !! Only
weight around the 2 wh axle helps stability.
Didn't we cover this before many times? Please stop trying to
build vehicles before you kill someone as you don't seem to be able to
learn.
Sadly,
Jerry Dycus
>
> y question: Where can I find a wide 'motorcycle type' wheel that will
carry
> a 105 load index tire (or better) and which can be mounted in a swing arm
> fork with a bearing on both sides?
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My 1980 Jet Electra Van 600 still has the stock battery box and it is filled
with flooded batteries (Trojan T105s). The odor eminating from the battery box
is persistent and strong enough to necessitate leaving the van windows open
24/7. If the van is unused for a day or more the odor may decrease somewhat,
but increases again once the van is driven. So is it normal for flooded
batteries to persistenly give off odors, but to release sulfuric acid mist only
during charging past 80% s.o.c. and under heavy discharge? If someone has a
link to a Material Data Safety Sheet (MSDS) for a flooded battery, I would
appreciate seeing that.
Is spilled electrolyte once dried, odorless? Or is that be a contributory
factor to discernible odors?
The Van's battery box fan is not working. While simply fixing the fan would
likely make driving the van less unpleasant, it would not solve the wider
issues of the flooded batteries venting into the garage space and the greater
atmospheric environment. So wiring the fan to run 24/7 or some portion thereof
would be an unsatisfactory solution.
I'd like to replace the flooded batteries with AGMs. But how much of an
improvement over flooded batteries are AGMs as far as how well they actually
stay sealed thus preventing releases of odors/vapors/gases/mists? I have
reviewed an MSDS from 2 different manufacturers of AGM batteries. It sounds
like extreme overcharging is the most likely way to bring about airborne
releases and so avoiding overcharging is important. But is Hydrogen gas
generated under normal charging/discharging of VRLA AGMs? If so, is it released
from the battery under normal operating conditions?
I'd like to identify which make & model VRLA AGM battery is most successful at
remaining sealed under normal operating conditions. Valves can leak and fail,
and I'm guessing that quality control varies amongst manufacturers.
Mark Freidberg
EAA member
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
IMHO it has everything to do with any vehicle that use tires.
My point was that a tire can influence the ride of a vehicle in a major way.
Are you indicating that something found that may be good for an ICE vehicle
is not applicable to an EV and should not be posted on this list?
stU
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden (Akron OH USA)
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:57 PM
To: stu; [email protected]
Subject: Re: The importance of tires?
On 15 Sep 2005 at 10:50, stu wrote:
> Yesterday I replaced the OEM tires on my 2001 Ford ZX2 5 speed
> coupe with ...
> On the ride home I was amazed! The car was smoother, and much quieter. I
> could not believe that by just changing the tires I would get the feel of
> a different car.
>
> It is a real eye opener for me. Has this ever happened to you?
Please forgive me for answering a question with another question, but what
does this have to do with EVs?
David Roden
EV List Assistant Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-09-14, Stu or Jan wrote:
> I want to convert a FWD to a trike. The single rear wheel will have to
> carry twice the load and a bit more if I add batteries in the trunk for a
> hybrid.
_Why?_
> y question: Where can I find a wide 'motorcycle type' wheel that will carry
> a 105 load index tire (or better) and which can be mounted in a swing arm
> fork with a bearing on both sides?
I think I can safely say that there are no motorcycle components
designed to carry half the weight of a car.
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Indeed, the tzero can only go 280 to 300 miles at 60 mph without
recharging
Typical media slant against electrics. Yeah, like 300 miles is a short
range. My Toyota gasser doesn't go 300 miles without refueling. A 300
mile range battery electric would handle 90+% of all my driving needs.
If you Google Dan Lienert (the author of the article), you'll find a lot
of people that have problems with his writing on other articles,
accusing him of doing hatchet jobs and not being a professional (a
recent review of the 2005 mustang has Lienert saying it is "for
dorks").
Another recent Lienert quote: "Some of the most unsettling images from
the wake of Hurricane Katrina have been of cars submerged by
floodwaters." How's that for a twisted perspective? Like submerged CARS
can remotely compare with the human toll of the disaster. 8^P
And I don't care that he is a senior editor at Forbes and graduated from
Harvard. That doesn't mean he's a fair, good, or balanced writer.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am sorry if I didn't make my question clear enough.
By stating 'motorcycle type', I meant having a sprocket and mounted between
2 arms of a fork. See below.
stU
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick 'Sharkey' Moore
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 6:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Rear wheel recommendations
On 2005-09-14, Stu or Jan wrote:
> I want to convert a FWD to a trike. The single rear wheel will have to
> carry twice the load and a bit more if I add batteries in the trunk for a
> hybrid.
_Why?_
> y question: Where can I find a wide 'motorcycle type' wheel that will
carry
> a 105 load index tire (or better) and which can be mounted in a swing arm
> fork with a bearing on both sides?
I think I can safely say that there are no motorcycle components
designed to carry half the weight of a car.
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looking at this page, I see a schematic:
http://aaron.birenboim.com/EV/misc/EVilBusMirror.html
I'm assuming the "node" circuitry is on the left side of the isolation,
and the dual phono jacks are for daisy-chaining devices together.
Questions:
Has anyone tried going faster than 9600Bps with this bus? Any idea of
the max data rate?
Are there any higher level protocols specified yet? I'd assume each
node has an address, and the master sends something like "device #01,
listen." and that device would send back something like "Device #01,
Ack", and henceforth the rest of the communication is between that
master and device?
Has anyone thought of implementing an isolated "1-wire" interface
(Dallas Semiconductor 1-wire, that is)? Dallas makes 1-wire compatible
temperature sensors and A/D convertors (to be used to measure voltage)
that could be addressed via the bus. Only downside is that a particular
battery would have one of each (temp / voltage) sensor, and each sensor
would have it's own unique address, meaning that you don't have a single
unique address per physical measurement node. Makes automatic battery
monitor discovery difficult.
Also, there are 1-wire i/o expanders if the battery board would also
include a bypass (batreg) function that's controlled by the bus.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Adam -
I've heard that said before - that wider tires have higher rolling
resistance.
But, I know ( based on real data) that for bicycle tires, wider tires have
lower rolling resistance than narrow tires ( at the same pressure).
Can you tell me what your assertion about RR vs width is based on? Can you
point me to any test data or references about this that I can look at for
myself?
I want the tires I get for my soon-to-be-finished EV to be as low rolling
resistance as possible, and I want to make my decisions on solid data.
Thanks
Phil Marino ( still working on that Echo)
From: "Adam Kinsey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: The importance of tires?
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:39:55 -0500
Both sets of tire have the same overall diameter; the sidewall height of 60
series tires, but the new ones are 195mm wide compared to 185 that will be
10 mm wider. I don't think that you will notice any difference in fuel
consumption, except maybe worse mileage due to more rolling resistance
(wider tires).
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of stu
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:51 AM
To: EV
Subject: The importance of tires?
Yesterday I replaced the Goodyear 185/60/15 OEM tires on my 2001 Ford ZX2 5
speed coupe with Falken 195/60/15 Ziex ZE-512 tires.
I never wore out a set of tires in 22,000 miles before and I was very
disappointed with the original set.
I went up one tire size to add 4% diameter for increased gas economy and to
correct my 4% error in the speedometer/odometer.
I bought the tires on EBay for $185 delivered into my garage and had a
buddy
mount and balance them for $20.
On the ride home I was amazed! The car was smoother, and much quieter. I
could not believe that by just changing the tires I would get the feel of a
different car.
It is a real eye opener for me. Has this ever happened to you?
BoyntonStu
_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"I don't know what sort of structure you think is back there that will be
strong enough to support all the suspension loads that a swingarm will feed
into the chassis. You are going to have to basically create a tubular
spaceframe to strengthen the back of the car.
Yes, but it would not be very wide, or heavy. Using the 'frame' swing arm
points and the other original suspension anchor points along with the rear
points used to mount trailer hitches, I believe that there is enough 'meat'
for a strong swing arm cage and shock/spring mount. Also, the wheelbase is
going to be extremely long hurting the maneuverability."
The limos are extremely long and they manage. Extending a car wheelbase
about 4 feet seems mild in comparison.
The Ackerman compensation would also be affected but I do not see any major
problem. If there is too much tire wear, the Ackerman angle could be
modified.
Could it be done is the question?
stU
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu wrote:
<SNIP>
Chris Doolen has converted his Buick and a Fox to trikes and he has driven
them for several years. He has gone from just North of Tampa (near you) to
St. Louis and back several times and he claims good handling. In his cars,
the rear tire was in a well between where the original tires were located.
In my case, the 3rd wheel would be behind the rear bumper and without
500-700 pounds of batteries in the trunk and I believe that the weight
balance from the FWD engine would be well within your parameters for good
handling. Correct so far?
Forgive me, but I have forgotten, what was the point of all this 3 wheel
conversion, and why it the rear wheel going to be so far back?
If you must have three wheels, why not just use a car or truck spindle,
hub, brake, and all for your third wheel? Most 3 wheel projects end up
with car tires and wheels anyway, not motorcycle wheels.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A tidbit of information for folks about CPI (Compact Power Inc.) located in
Momument Colorado. In 2003 and 2004 they were producing hand built prototype
large format (~8" X 11") Li-Poly batteries which seemed ideal for EVs.
Haven't heard much from them in 2005. Their website is down (says new site
coming
in June 2005) _www.compactpower.com_ (http://www.compactpower.com) .
As you may know they were a US based research arm of LG Chem a Korean
advanced battery company. No response to 2 recent attempts to contact people
that I
know that work there. Their phone says they are now called Colorado Power
Systems. Not sure what to conclude from all this, but will advise the list if
any new news surfaces in the next week or so.
Mike Bachand
DEVC
Colorado
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One Horsepower is actually 550 ft-lb / second ( not 550 ft-lb, or 550
ft/lb).
One thing missing is it is 550 lbs of LIFT 1' in 1sec
equal a hp.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Yes, Jerry - that's a good way to look at it.
But, it doesn't have to be lift. It can be force in any direction. For
example, if you push on the back of your car with 100 pounds, with the car
moving at 5.5 ft/second, you are applying a power equal to 1 HP. ( 100 lb x
5.5 ft/s = 550 ft-lb/s = 1 HP )
The only requirement - to be able to calculate HP by multiplying force and
speed - is that the force and the motion be in the same direction.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
> James Massey wrote:
>
> > until an earthquake
>
> If it's built right, the foundation and structure won't fail under
> those conditions.
>
> > Except would you want your children and their children for 10,000 years to
> > have to deal with radioactive waste from our generators? That is the issue
> > as I am aware of it, and until we can 'inert' the waste, or re-use it for
> > other purposes (indefinately) it will continue to be a problem.
>
> I thought they were going to put it all in the "Yucca Mountain" site
> until some day when something can be done with it?
>
> http://www.ocrwm.doe.gov/ymp/index.shtml
>
> Is radiation like magnetics in the sense that you can magnetize
> something and then demagnetize it? Surely there is a way to deradiate
> something..
>
> ----
>
> Fuel cells remind me of solar cells. A chemical reaction or conversion
> taking place in each of them?
Chemical reactions in fuel cells; semiconductor physics in solar cells.
> Don't fuel cells put out like 1/2 or 3/4 volt each and about the
> same or less for amps?
The voltage per cell is basically set by the two elements reacting. In a
fuel cell, you are reacting hydrogen and oxygen. In an nimh battery, it
is nickel and hydrogen. A lead-acid battery reacts lead and sulfuric
acid. Most other batteries react two metals (nickel-cadmium, for
example). In each case, there is a characteristic voltage per cell,
which is generally pretty low.
The current per cell is set by the surface area of the two plates (or
other reacting surfaces). For high currents, you need lots of surface
area.
> Will solar cells ever improve (doubt it)?
Sure they will. Like batteries (and fuel cells), there has been a slow,
steady improvement over many years. There are no revolutionary
breakthroughs, except in the minds of the salesmen trying to sell you
stock.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Poulsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Has anyone thought of implementing an isolated "1-wire" interface
> (Dallas Semiconductor 1-wire, that is)? Dallas makes 1-wire
> compatible temperature sensors and A/D convertors (to be used
> to measure voltage) that could be addressed via the bus. Only
> downside is that a particular battery would have one of each
> (temp / voltage) sensor, and each sensor would have it's own
> unique address, meaning that you don't have a single unique
> address per physical measurement node.
Actually, you could use something like the DS2436 Battery ID/Monitor
<http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/2917/ln/>. This one-wire
device monitors both voltage and temperature. Of course, its supply
range (2.4-10V) does not extend high enough for it to run directly off a
12V battery, so you'd need to operate it off a voltage divider and scale
the voltage readings accordingly.
The challenge with isolating the 1-wire interface is that you need to
split the 1-wire into distinct transmit and receive paths and isolate
each of them. It is not impossible, but it largely negates the
advantages of the 1-wire scheme.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Wilson wrote:
> I've been looking all over trying to find 180amp 200vdc fuses for
> my E-10. Voltage isn't so much the issue as amperage. Does anyone
> have any idea where these can be had? I've seen everything from
> 100 up to 800 in 50 and 100 amp increments but have been unable
> to locate 180 amp fuses. Help!!
Fuses are not precision devices. A 150 or 200 amp fuse is close enough.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just re-subscribed after being away for about a year. I see you guys are
still talking about contactor controllers, and I am glad because I have a few
questions.
I have bought a 1982 toyota pickup. I just pulled the 22r engine Monday, and
my plan right now is to cut the back of the crankshaft off the engine and use
it to adapt to a GE forklift motor I have.
I have already bought the large .171 ohm resistor from C&H surplus that Lee
Hart recommended to me the last time I was on the list. I am going to use a
combination of diodes and contactors for a series parallel setup with the
resistor as the first step.
I have been trying to figure the best way to control the contactors. I would
like this system to be hooked to the gas pedal for simple operation. I can
envision using microswitches with the accelerator cable to select the different
speeds.
My first thought was to control the resistor with an on-delay timer. Anytime
the accelerator is pushed, the resistor would be in the circuit for 1 or 2
seconds, and then the timer would time out, and the contactor would activate
and bypass the resistor. The drawback to this that I see is if I am going down
the road with some speed and let off the accelerator, and then push it back
down, the timer will throw the resistor in the circuit.
I have seen some other designs where they put a low voltage relay across the
motor. When you start from a standstill, apparently the motor is pretty much a
dead short and there is no voltage developed across it. As you gain speed, the
voltage rises to the point where it would activate the relay(a 12v relay with
some sort of zener diode network?), and I could use that to take the resistor
out of the circuit. If I am going down the road, the resistor should not come
back in if the load is not heavy on the motor.
Besides the resistor problem, how do you keep someone from nailing the throttle
to the floor from a dead stop, forcing the batteries into high voltage series
operation and causing something to burn out or break the tranny?
Please tell me I am making this too complicated, and there is a simple
solution, or I do not have to worry about some of this stuff. I would like it
to drive as simple as possible, in case someone other than me takes it down the
road.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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Boy, did I start something when I used the words 'motorcycle type'.
I WOULD NEVER USE A MOTORCYCLE TIRE ON AN AUTOMOBILE.
Forgive me, but I have forgotten, what was the point of all this 3 wheel
conversion, and why it the rear wheel going to be so far back?
Back so far, keeps the trunk space for luggage or batteries. The gas tank
etc, need not be changed. The car could be a hybrid.
If you must have three wheels, why not just use a car or truck spindle,
hub, brake, and all for your third wheel?
It will probably go that way, but since a sprocket 'motorcycle style' might
be used, the 2 bearing fork swing arm may be the way to go.
Mike, I hope that I cleared it up for you.
stU
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
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Stu wrote:
<SNIP>
If you must have three wheels, why not just use a car or truck spindle,
hub, brake, and all for your third wheel?
It will probably go that way, but since a sprocket 'motorcycle style' might
be used, the 2 bearing fork swing arm may be the way to go.
It might be easier to use a spindle assembly from a vehicle with CV
joints. Simply strip the half-shaft, balls, and cage from the joint, then
have the outside machined to mount your drive sprocket. This way you would
have a single trailing arm with the wheel assembly on one side and the
drive chain on the other. You could use a spindle from either a front
wheel drive vehicle, or one of the four wheel drive trucks or SUVs that
uses CV shafts in the rear. Another option would be to have the sprocket
mounted on the brake drum itself. Either way you are going to have some
interesting engineering to get it to all fit together.
We aren't big on three wheelers in Missouri, too many potholes. :)
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
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There is certainly is!!!
I will now open one of my spare fuses out of a package that has these
specifications on it.
Bussmann FWX-400A 250 V ac/dc.
Semiconductor fuse design for solid state devices.
Overload interrupting rating for 10 seconds at 1000 amps
Short Circuit rating of 10000 amps RMS and 8000 amps let threw.
Before I had these Semi-Conductor fuses, I had a Bussman Limitron fuse that was
rated at 400 amps and 250,000 amps RMS.
These fuses act like a FUSTRON which are duel unit type, that is design for
motor surges. The Fustrons or Overload current relays are fuse for 1.25
percent over the motor rating and they will not trip on motor start up which
may pull over 4 times the ampere rating on the motor.
I was able do pull 600 amps for about 2 minutes before the controller would
current limited it. Never blew these fuses in 25 years.
Go to the WEB site for Bussmann fuses and look at the data sheets for what fuse
you want.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Victor Tikhonov<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Need Fuses
FWIW, there is no such thing as 200ADC fuse. It is arbitrary rating
for certain time to blow at that rated current.
In theory a *200A* fuse should work indefinitely at 199A and blow
in instant at 201A. No fuse works like that, if you look at the
curves for 200A fuse you'll see that it will sustain, say, 170A
indefinitely, blow at 180A in 60 seconds, at 190A in 5 sec,
at 200A in 1 sec, at 250A at 0.1sec. So take your pick.
The point is, don't look specifically for 180A fuse if 170A is
available. It will take a bit less time to blow, but the fuse is for
emergency only, you're guaranteed it to blow in currents *around*
that number. You're not planning routinely use 170A currents with
180A rated fuse, do you?
Victor
James Massey wrote:
> At 09:49 PM 14/09/05 -0500, Jeff Wilson wrote:
>
>> I've been looking all over trying to find 180amp 200vdc fuses for my
>> E-10.
>> Voltage isn't so much the issue as amperage. Does anyone have any idea
>> where these can be had? I've seen everything from 100 up to 800 in 50
>> and
>> 100 amp increments but have been unable to locate 180 amp fuses. Help!!
>
>
> Hi Jeff
>
> A 200A fuse will blow slightly later than a 180A fuse. Make sure that
> the fuse you get is rated for the DC voltage, or it may not 'clear' and
> cause a fire. What happened to the previous fuse? if it 'random failed'
> a 200A fuse may be more appropriate anyway.
>
> James
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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re: The ideal motor for an electric motorcycle in Jim Husted's post.
Jim and I have discussed the merits and drawbacks of Advanced DC verses Etek
type motors for MC EV applications before. However I now have some real
world experience to share from my Kawasaki Ninja (EX500).
It has 6 Optima TYs using a 400a Curtis controller to push an ADC 6.7" 4.1HP
continuous motor.
Obvious Problem #1 - this relatively small motor takes up valuable space
that could be used for batteries.
Not so obvious Problem #2 - The motor is placed parallel to the rear axle
low in the rear of the frame to position the front sprocket in line with the
rear sprocket. However this makes the motorcycle very right side heavy with
the
batteries centered in the frame. Not sure what implications this has for
racing a sport bike, but it concerns me. Jim, your suggestion of a larger
electric motor may simply aggravate this condition.
Final motor related thought. The ADC seems quite durable, but my heavy
throttle hand causes the motor to smell very warm after a short ride (~12
miles)
at 45 to 65 MPH in very hilly territory. Keep in mind that this vehicle is
geared too tall at the moment which may be contributing to this issue.
So let's look at the Etek pancake style motor.
Much better power to weight ratio.
Poor durability in hilly areas or heavy handed throttle (read high current
draw) situations has been well documented on this list.
Pancake style is even worse to fit in the frame with the batteries. That is
why several people have explored mounting this motor on the swing arm. This
approach has some benefit in freeing battery space, and in reducing chain
tension issues as the swing arm moves. I also suspect that the now left side
heavy potential problem is not too bad due to the lighter weight of this motor
and its position on the cycle.
As to the apparent physics of racing a high performance EV
motorcycle.....current battery technology may lead to a higher center of
gravity (a bad thing
in my opinion). Second a builder would need to pay a great deal of attention
to maintaining the ground clearance on a racing machine. If you look at
photos of modern sport bikes set up for racing you will see things like foot
pegs
and exhaust systems have been raised very high to address the need to not to
scrape things at significant lean angles.
Mike Bachand
DEVC
1994 Kawasaki Ninja EV
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To Victor and all others that responded to my aid...
The reason I was concerned about the amps listed on the fuse is because
Solectria was very specific regarding the fuse in the traction pack as
listed in the E-10 manual. However, I finally received a call from them
late this afternoon and they indicated that the fuse could be a 200amp if I
couldn't find 180. The only reason given for the specific fuse in the
manual was "arbitrary". As described by the tech I talked with, the only
reason for the fuse is to blow in case of a short in the pack on the frame
or other part of the truck. He said if I had enough of a short to blow a
180, it would certainly blow a 200. Any short in the pack is going to be
well in excess of that figure.
So, thank you all for your suggestions and you are all correct. My worries
were misplaced but I am still a newbie here so again, thank you all for your
wisdom. I'll buy 3 200's from one of our parts suppliers for EVs.
Jeff Wilson
USA(Ret)
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Need Fuses
FWIW, there is no such thing as 200ADC fuse. It is arbitrary rating
for certain time to blow at that rated current.
In theory a *200A* fuse should work indefinitely at 199A and blow
in instant at 201A. No fuse works like that, if you look at the
curves for 200A fuse you'll see that it will sustain, say, 170A
indefinitely, blow at 180A in 60 seconds, at 190A in 5 sec,
at 200A in 1 sec, at 250A at 0.1sec. So take your pick.
The point is, don't look specifically for 180A fuse if 170A is
available. It will take a bit less time to blow, but the fuse is for
emergency only, you're guaranteed it to blow in currents *around*
that number. You're not planning routinely use 170A currents with
180A rated fuse, do you?
Victor
James Massey wrote:
> At 09:49 PM 14/09/05 -0500, Jeff Wilson wrote:
>
>> I've been looking all over trying to find 180amp 200vdc fuses for my
>> E-10.
>> Voltage isn't so much the issue as amperage. Does anyone have any idea
>> where these can be had? I've seen everything from 100 up to 800 in 50
>> and
>> 100 amp increments but have been unable to locate 180 amp fuses. Help!!
>
>
> Hi Jeff
>
> A 200A fuse will blow slightly later than a 180A fuse. Make sure that
> the fuse you get is rated for the DC voltage, or it may not 'clear' and
> cause a fire. What happened to the previous fuse? if it 'random failed'
> a 200A fuse may be more appropriate anyway.
>
> James
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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A tidbit of information for folks about CPI (Compact Power Inc.)
located in Momument Colorado. In 2003 and 2004 they were producing
hand built prototype large format (~8" X 11") Li-Poly batteries which
seemed ideal for EVs.
Haven't heard much from them in 2005. Their website is down (says new
site coming in June 2005)
http://www.compactpower.com
As you may know they were a US based research arm of LG Chem a Korean
advanced battery company.
I talked with LG Chem at EVS20 two years ago and they said LG expected
to have these cells in production and available to the public in early
2006. Haven't heard anything since then.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
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