EV Digest 4724
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Metal cutting saws.. was Plasma Cutter
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: wire and connector sizing
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Wire and connector sizing
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) re: connector sizing
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: wire and connector sizing
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) AGM's at rest vs Flooded
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Fastenel Stores
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Ford Ranger EV site?
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Wandering Engineer and Brush timing demo
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Adjustable timing 8-inch motor
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Low Rolling Resistance Tire Numbers
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Highway capable conversion on a budget?
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Rear wheel recommendations
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) RE: Rear wheel recommendations
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Help with motor rating
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Low Rolling Resistance Tire Numbers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: baldor motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EVILBUSQuestions
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: electric motorcycle performance
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Highway capable conversion on a budget?
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
I use a special Dewalt non-ferrous metal cutting blade that was kinda
expensive ($80.00) but works very well and cuts like a laser. Doesn't clog
either. Reverse rake angle I believe is the trick. I have also found that
they make a couple different reverse rake blades for metal cutting use
depending on if the material to be cut is ferrous or non. Looks like this
blade will last awhile and can then be resharpened so as to mitigate the
cost somewhat.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Farver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: Metal cutting saws.. was Plasma Cutter
> Neon John wrote:
>
> >I have a no-name chop saw that I bought >20 years ago before the
> >chinese entered the scene. Other than a flimsy sheet metal base, it
> >works like a champ.
> >
> >BTW, the blades that Northern sells are OK. Not like a Norton but OK.
> >
> >
>
> The friction blades never seem to work for me. They cut too slowly and
> the blades seem to wobble and cut inaccurately.. especially thru angle
iron.
>
> I had slighty better success with a bandsaw, but miter cuts can be a
> pain even on a horizontal unit.
>
> The TV programs always show people cutting steel with a toothed blade
> (sometimes water cooled)... I am not sure what they are using. Wonder
> if it works any better.
>
> Mark
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Motor bolts are 3/8. The zilla is 5/16. The problem I see is a loss of
contact area if the hole is oversize. My real concern is the main
contactor, it has a plastic rib between the two posts and 1/4" bolts
only the lightest 2/0 connectors will half ass fit.
And then there is my 1200A shunt, it has 7/16 or 1/2 bolts grrr.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jeff and Everyone:
I think this page will answer most of your questions as to what is
available:
http://www.evsource.com/tls_lugs.php
A wise EV expert (Otmar) told me once that 2/0 will be sufficient for
most EV applications in the battery loop. Short 2/0 runs will suffice
in the motor loop for a Z1K. Use 4/0 cable to the motor with the Z2K.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The MagnaLug are what I am trying to use, the one store has the battery
post, but only one lug style and size and another 3 stores has only the
3/8 hole 2/0. I wanted to get it running this weekend but I might have
to re-cable with better stuff (mail order) I need to get it moved to
work to do some of the fancier bracketry.
If you look at the 6420D or the 6440D they would have a 1/4 hole for the
EV250 but the hole would be on center and the lug is to wide and hits
the divider, Is that what people use and just grind down the lug?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roger,
Makes sense as its kinda tough to pull over in a plane if the engine were to
stop due to something otherwise survivable like the generator seizing. One
slightly interesting point I will add is that I have a large GE that Bob
brought me from Woodburn last year that not only has the skinny torsion
shaft but a breakaway clutch as well.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
> David Chapman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > they both seem to have the usual AC "torsion" shaft
> > drive where the armature shaft is a tube internally splined
> > at the back end and the splined stub you see is actually a
> > floating shaft that goes thru the generator and drives the
> > armature from the "back" so to speak. I have seen this on
> > many AC generators and have never really come up with a good
> > reason for doing it this way except as either a cost cutting
> > move (need a larger/smaller shaft you could just put the
> > right one in) or more likely as a psuedo "flex" drive.
>
> (For those wondering, "AC" means "aircraft" in this case.)
>
> My understanding is that the aircraft starter/generators use this
> arrangement so that there is a long skinny shaft connecting the motor to
> its load/prime mover. If the motor generator siezes the shaft will snap
> and allow the engine to continue turning. It may also act as a shock
> absorbing torsion bar when the starter is initially fired up.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:55 PM 9/15/2005, Jeff Shanab wrote:
The kilovac EV250 has really tiny bolts(1/4-28?) , the head of these
bolts would fit thru the 3/8 hole in a standard 2/0 lug. It has a nice
flat area so If I can find lugs for 2/0 cable with 1/4 holes and a
smaller width so they fit, i could see that working, but I can't find
these lugs.
The Lugs do exist, see:
http://smhoem.com/terminals/TL_eyelet.html
As far as I can tell, my Local Sebo's Do-It Center carries little
packs of just about all of them.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Whats the deal on this for those in the know.
Question, are AGM's better suited for an EV that may sit for days on end
vs floodeds. Can one expect to be driving at their usual range with
little charge cycling ?
I hate having to charge cycle (retrain) or exercise flooded batteries to
keep up their range.
Yes deep cycle do need to be exercised to keep up their energy capacity
but are AGM's better suited for sitting and need less training.
All comments appreciated. Thanks, Danny Ames...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, we have 3 locations in fresno! I will check them out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not sure if this is what you're looking for,
but it might have a link to something good!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV
L8r
Ryan
Brad E Jensen wrote:
> I have seen a lot of conversion web site and even some sites where people
> have restored S-10s. Are there any sites showing the restoration of Ford
> Ranger EVs? I am interested in finding out if anyone had some unique
> solutions to the problem of replacing the batteries. What about upgrading to
> NiMH for older Rangers that didn't come with them?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry all for the tardiness of this post, got busy fixing Bluebirds and was too
tired to get it done and sent until tonight. David Chapman.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Rice finally showed up in Cave Creek late Sunday nite, I can report he is
safe and well. Sent him on his way early Tuesday morn with a hot meal at the
Wagon Wheel (local greasy spoon). Had a nice visit Monday and by good fortune
was able to hook up with Dennis Berube for a visit to his new place in BF
Estrella. Once we arrived I immediately spotted a VERY interesting motor on the
bench with the end plates off. All I can say about it right now is that its
beautifully short, compact and I have seen smaller diameter trash cans! While
Rick was checking out Dennis' house batteries and solar setup Bob and Dennis
chatted and looked at CE, Dennis explaining the functions of the various
components and they had a nice visit. I took the chance to measure CE for the
set of removable mudflaps that I am building and catching up on some tech tips.
Shortly after that we got to playing with Dennis' practice tree. I was pretty
happy that I could still cut a decent light most of the time a!
nd I even whipped D's butt 10-15% of the time. Mostly by distracting him with
witty banter, hand gestures and flickering my staging light (simulating what
Nick did to him Friday). He took it with good humor. I seriously wouldn't
suggest trying to best Dennis for $$. He IS that good. I was cutting .020s -
.050s most of the time and he was beating me 5 out of 6. By good fortune Dennis
had just been working on a diesel welder generator and he took the time to show
us something very very interesting. Fired it up and with a clamp-on Fluke meter
monitoring amps on the cable running into the giant "D" cells (solar batts) he
proceeded to graphically demonstrate how important brush timing is by reaching
in and moving the generators adjustable brush rigging in and out of time. Bob
and Rick were watching and recording the amp readings and I was absorbed in
watching the arc line on the commutator/brush interface. As Dennis moved the
brushs out of time for the engine speed (either retar!
ded or advanced) I saw major lightning and Rick reported that the amps
were around 33. Then Dennis started moving the brushs into time, the amps
picked up and the engine started bearing down. The amps peaked at 550 and at
the same time the fire show at the brushes disappeared. Nothing new I know but
boy what a graphic demonstration of the importance of brush timing. After a
really good anchovy pizza and a beer (Dennis' nickle too!) we Prius-ed back to
Cave Creek (love that car!) and watched the Woodburn footage. Looks like you
guys had a great time and I hope that Johns new Siamese 8 isn't fubar. Rods
scooter was a hoot. We could sure use that fellow with the landlocked airboat
around here on hot summer days.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Last week I got my 8-inch ADC motor back from Jim Husted's shop. He
did a beautiful job modifying it to have adjustable brush timing, from
0 degrees to over 30 degrees of advance. He seemed pleased to be
working on a brand-new motor that's never been used, let alone abused.
I enjoyed my trip to the shop to pick up the motor - Jim's having a
great time working on EV motors, as you can probably tell from his
posts. I saw his 9-inch motors he picked up surplus and is offering to
the list. We discussed the modifications he's making to one of them
for my friend Jay Donnaway to make the motor shorter to fit it into his
Karmann Ghia without any changes to the sheet metal. Jim really knows
what he's doing. I finally had to tear myself away so he could get
back to actual profit-making activities.
I installed my motor this week and it seems to work fine. On 12 volts
the motor doesn't seem to vary much in speed from 0 to 30, but the amps
sure go up.
This particular rig is not intended for adjustment on the fly, although
it could be set up that way with very little effort. It's a very
elegant design. Basically, the brush assembly is mounted to a moveable
ring instead of to the support posts that used to be in the end bell.
The old screw holes that were in the posts remain, and are now used for
four set screws that are adjustable from the rear of the motor. You
set the timing by way of a lever that sticks out of the motor, then you
tighten the set screws to fix the brush ring firmly in position.
I whipped out a drawing program and made an angle gauge with an 8"
radius curve and printed it out and stuck it to the motor with tape,
just to see how it looked. Not bad, actually. Does the list have any
suggestions for making a more permanent version of this? Laminating it
probably won't last very long either - it would leak from the edges.
The file is a PDF - it's on my website at
<http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/static/files/motor-advance-
gauge.pdf>. And if you print it 125% bigger, it should produce a gauge
for a 9" motor, although I haven't tried this yet.
I'm really looking forward to getting my car finished and on the road.
Advancing the brush timing is an important hurdle for me, especially
since I'm using a Sparrow motor that didn't have timing adjustment
holes pre-drilled in the housing.
Thanks, Jim!
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
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--- Begin Message ---
I have wasted a lot of hours recently trying to find actual numbers for
rolling resistance of currently manufactured tires. The only source I
have found is the Green Seal report from 2003, which lists only one
decent tire, Bridgestone B381 (R=0.0062). Does anyone know of any
reliable sources for more measurements?
I measured my rolling resistance last week at R=0.025; the tires could
be more than half of that. The best way to find out is to replace them.
Brian
www.skewray.com/alfa
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Astronomical Optical Engineering and Software
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[email protected]
Highway capable conversion on a budget?
I know my goals for my project are quite ambitious, but I
really got to thinking about what Lee Hart has told me last
year about how my first conversion won't be fast, cheap, and
have decent range all at once. That, coupled with the
financial situation of my parents and me being a full time
college student(Junior year), if I waited to accumulate the
parts to do that $12k conversion I'd like to do(assuming no
mistakes), it would most likely not happen until after I
graduated college. These gas prices are really starting to
eat a hole in my wallet(and parents' wallet), and a budget
conversion could pay itself off in the scope of a year with
the amount of driving done while class is in session.
So perhaps I might want to go with something as cheap as
possible, goal of maybe 60 mph top speed(65 is highest speed
limit in my area), no concern at all for acceleration(0-60
in 40-50 seconds or worse), and maybe the goal of a 30 mile
range at 50 mph or so to 80% DoD. Think this could be done
for as little as $3k in EV components? How about $2k? Less?
For those who don't know my glider, I will again mention
that I have a 1969 Triumph GT6+. Dry weight is 1,793 pounds,
drag coefficient .32, frontal area of 14.9 feet square,
transmission efficiency approximately 83%, rear wheel drive.
There is literally about 700 pounds of crap to be removed
from this car, including a 402 pound inline 6-cylinder
engine, about 90 pounds of other ICE related components like
exhaust system, carburetors, and gas tank, another 50 pounds
to be saved by changing to lighter seats(Miata seats, for
example, save about 55 pounds over stock GT6/Spitfire
seats), 40 pounds for the carpets and sound deadener, among
many other gains to be made, without even switching to
fiberglass components. It is within the realm of possibility
that the glider weight will be between 1,100-1,200 pounds.
GVWR is 2,350 pounds. The transmission and differential
installed are both from a Triumph TR6 without overdrive, and
they can safely handle about 200 horsepower and about 250
lb-ft of max torque in regular use(More for racing). This is
according to GT6 racers I've spoken with. I would not want
more than 220 peak lb-ft of torque or more than 200 peak
horsepower going through it, but with the cheap idea this
wouldn't be a worry.
You can see my glider and one of the ideas I toyed with
here:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/630.html
I plan to eventually do every possible aero improvement in
the book to get that Cd down to near Honda Insight
levels(.25-.27 or so, Insight has a .25), which in theory
could allow for 80-100 miles range if I would later have a
300V pack of Optimas or Orbitals.
What I had originally planned was the following setup, with
no huge concern for cost:
-WarP 9'' series DC motor x1 $1,465
-Exide Orbital XCD 55 AH battery(or Optima YTs) x25 $2,450
-Zilla Controller w/ Hall effect pedal sensor(72-300V DC,
1,000 amp max) x1 $2,555
-PFC 20 Charger x1 $1,500
-Todd DC-DC converter x1 $400
-EV200AAANA contactors x1 $75
-Feraz Shawmut A50QS400-4 fuse x2 $109
-E-Meter x1 $235
-Solid-State Ceramic Heater Core x1 $75
-Adaptor Plate x1 $0(I will be machining myself, so don't
count cost)
-Miscallaneous components(Heat shrink tubing, metal for
adaptor plate/battery boxes, battery cable, ect.) $500
-Rudman Mk2B Battery Regulators w/REGBUS x25 $1125
-restoration and tools costs: $1,500 (budgeted)
Total = $11,989(or less if I get used parts). Add another
$1,200 for the glider, but that's technically not part of
the actual conversion cost. Take out the restoration/tools
and the actual parts cost to go straight to electric using
those high quality parts would be around $10,500. My own
labor was not tallied since it was free. This also didn't
include the LRR tires planned or the materials for the aero
mods. This setup would have allowed 0-60 in about 6 seconds
and a top speed > 130 mph with its limitation depending upon
overall tire diameter. Theoretically, it would have provided
an 80-100 mile range per charge @ 65 mph depending upon
outside conditions and traffic. Imagine it, 25 amps to
cruise at highway speeds! That would be efficiency up there
with John Bryan's Ghia, a nice goal to aim for or even beat.
In this budget conversion idea, it won't perform anywhere
near like what that dream conversion above would. Nor would
it cost anywhere near as much. But, on the plus side, I
could still get my hands dirty without worrying about
breaking anything too expensive, and I could realistically
begin doing this after I manage to pay for books(since I
finally landed a job at my university).
So, lets say I decide to try to do a conversion on a $3,000
parts budget, instead of a $10,500 one. I'm not worried
about performance with this cheap idea, as I can upgrade
later as I go and eventually have built that high
performance conversion with Zilla, AGMs, and a big motor. I
figure maybe it might be wise to get a little experience and
start with a safe voltage level, low cost, low power, and
very modest range, perhaps around a 72V conversion or so.
I'd need about 72 volts and a 50 pound motor to hit 60 mph
according to simulation(Using 6'' ADC as the simulated
motor, even though I'd really want to use something
cheaper), so finding a surplus aircraft starter generator
that has a better power output and efficiency may allow even
faster speed, perhaps 70. Wayland's car did over 80 mph on
48V, and I may be able to even mimick that, but I don't
expect to.
Jerry Dycus could probably give me some very good pointers
on this, but how does the following setup sound?
-Cheap surplus aircraft motor or forklift motor x1 $200
(budgeted)
-Trojan T-105 225 AH flooded lead acid Golf Cart batteries
x12 $1,020
-AllTrax AXE 24-72V 400A Controller x1 $638
-Zivan NG1 Battery 120VAC In, 12-96VDC out Charger x1 $573
-Some sort of Car Battery x1 $30 (budgeted, use in place of
DC-DC for lights, wipers, ect.)
-EV200AAANA contactors x1 $75
-Feraz Shawmut A50QS400-4 fuse x2 $109
-Curtis Potbox x1 $75
-Ammeter/Voltmeters $50
-Adaptor Plate x1 $0(I will be machining myself, so don't
count cost)
-Miscallaneous components(Heat shrink tubing, metal for
adaptor plate/battery boxes, battery cable, ect.) $200
-restoration and tools costs: $1,500 (budgeted)
-Total Cost: $4,470 or less
-Cost minus tools/restoration(say I temporarily skip most of
the restoration): $2,970
Such a conversion with a $3,000 parts budget could
potentially hit about 60-65 mph, do 30 miles or so per
charge(cut in half for the winter), would weigh about 2,150
pounds, accelerate dog slow, and would basically be the
rolling science project I so dread. But, the first upgrade I
would make after its initial completion would be some
instrumentation. After that a battery heating system. Then I
could resume the restoration and get that very nice paintjob
I want, along with LeMans bonnet, LRR tires, the aero mods,
ect. Perhaps actually start doing a weight reduction with
fiberglass body pieces and lexan windows. Then that Zilla
1k, then the 9'' motor, then the PFC charger, eventually
changing to that pack of AGMs last after subsequently
refabricating the battery boxes and motor mount and adaptor
to accommodate all that when each new upgrade is done, and
having the regs purchased before the AGMs.
And even better, with used parts, or even skipping the
charger and using a variac, I have the potential to get the
parts cost down to $2,000 or less.
Even better is to snag a used conversion or an incomplete
conversion. I've seen some good deals where someone was
selling an unfinished conversion for less than the parts
were worth. I remember seeing one incomplete Escort with an
ADC 9'' motor, with battery racks and such going for $1,500.
I know I wouldn't be happy at all with such a S-L-O-W
conversion, BUT I'd be even less happy to continue guzzling
gas like I am and would be pleased to save a little money
for the time being. If Wayland is reading this, he's
probably cringing, as am I, but having a cheap conversion is
better than no conversion. I once mentioned if it came down
to it, I'd rather drive a 35 mph cockroach if that is what
it would take for me to drive an EV, than to have no EV at
all, and I'm now seriously thinking about eating my
words(albeit it would be faster than 35 mph). I definitely
will not be displaying emblems on this car stating it is an
electric, as I don't want to perpetuate the stereotypes I
wish to help destroy. Those can go on after it is eventually
capable of terrorizing the city and killing a Porsche or
two.
I realize the danger the batteries could be in using such a
cheap setup, especially if I charge them with a variac
instead of an actual charger, but with proper attention paid
they shouldn't have too many problems. GCs are much more
forgiving than AGMs! Cost per mile should be sufficiently
cheap that it would pay itself off in a year in gas savings
at $2.70/gallon here plus maintenance savings over the
15,000 miles driven per year. My gasser Ford Contour may not
last much longer anyway. Given that the IEA is releasing to
America 2 million extra barrels of crude per day from its
reserves, I expect oil and gas prices will balloon back up
when the IEA quits sending the extra crude late October, so
it may even fare better in savings, although the gas prices
would eat a greater whole in my wallet in the interim of
building the conversion.
Recommendations? I'd especially like to hear from Jerry. He
knows how to do dirt cheap conversions, and maybe that is
how I could start off.
Perhaps Lee Hart could also chime in.
If I find a 25+ hr/week part time job next summer(tried and
failed this year), I should hopefully have this car into a
hi pro EV in a reasonable time frame(1-1.5 years from
completion of the cheap conversion). I do not intend to keep
it a sluggo forever(With all due respect to Sluggo, the Ford
Escort conversion, slow that piece of shit may be.), as I
want to eventually take the best characteristics of Blue
Meanie and Cocconi's CRX and combine them in the same car,
and race that fucker! Slugs just aren't any fun, despite
their merits.
The leftover parts from the initial conversion? By that
time, gas prices may be so high that my parents might want
me to convert one of their POS cars. And if not that, I'd be
willing to donate those parts to someone else to get another
conversion on the road, and failing that, perhaps an
over-powered electric bicycle with a full body faring like
those seen at www.speed101.com/, capable of 70 mph on 300
watts of human power. Imagine having one of those things
with kilowatts of power... *drool*
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > Could it be done is the question?
>
> Sure it can. But you'd have your EV on the road much sooner if you
> just leave it with 4 wheels. Get it built and start driving it.
> Winter is on the way...
So, does going from two rear wheels to one make that big of a difference on
efficiency? It doesn't seem you're taking off much weight while putting *more*
weight on one wheel. Is the only reason for this kind of conversion work just
to get a car licensed as a motorcycle? Corbin jumped through a lot of hoops to
fit the Sparrow into the motorcycle classification, but California still
requires any 3-wheeler be under 1500lbs to be registered as a
motorcycle...otherwise, it's a 3-wheeled automobile (probably not a
consideration in other states).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry, I am behind you a 100% all the way on this. Although I have not been
"around the block" on EV development as much as you, I cannot believe the
amount of "dumb-ass" questions repeat ably being asked by the likes of some
new posters. It is very much as waste of time.
I have spent considerable time answering questions (in which I have
something worthwhile to contribute) to new posters who are obviously more
interested in posting "what-if" and "I was wondering" questions rather than
getting down to building an EV. I have learned my lesson, and will not
respond to the likes of BontonStu and others of similar nature. I am trying
to view them as entertainment than serious about EV conversions.
Thanks for letting me vent. Hope the Freedom EV project finds you well.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jerry dycus
Sent: September 15, 2005 9:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Rear wheel recommendations
Hi Stu and All,
Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 1:54 PM
Subject: Rear wheel recommendations
> I want to convert a FWD to a trike. The single rear wheel will have to
> carry twice the load and a bit more if I add batteries in the trunk for a
> hybrid.
This has to be the dumbest thing I have heard recently. Has none
of my posts sunk in? Are you delibrately making statements to see yourself
online or piss people off?
Doing the above will mean it will be so squirrelly you may not
even get out of the driveway.
Repeat after me, Equal weight on each wheel, again? Just what
about that don't you understand?
Any weight over, around the single wheel makes you more likely to
flip. The single wheel can only have 1/3 of the vehicle weight !! Only
weight around the 2 wh axle helps stability.
Didn't we cover this before many times? Please stop trying to
build vehicles before you kill someone as you don't seem to be able to
learn.
Sadly,
Jerry Dycus
>
> y question: Where can I find a wide 'motorcycle type' wheel that will
carry
> a 105 load index tire (or better) and which can be mounted in a swing arm
> fork with a bearing on both sides?
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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OK, I was able to get some measurements running the motor today.
@5.5 volts I got 1165 RPM, and about 30 amps but it took quite some time to
get to that speed (20-30 Secs.)
@11.67 volts I got 2455 RPM without the ability to get an amp reading and
the ramp up was quick (~2 Secs.)
Don't have a convienient higher voltage source and am leery of the "runaway"
speeds sometimes mentioned on the list.
For those who missed the original post, I am planning on making a commuter
vehicle out of an old Harley 3-wheeler. I am hoping to use this motor with
or without the existing transmission (preferably without for weight). I
don't have a curb weight on the glider but am estimating the finished GVW at
~1000 Lbs. including my large behind and the batteries etc.
The rear wheels are 80" per revolution and the rear end has a 37 tooth
sprocket. I think the smallest sproket I can fit to the motor shaft is 11
tooth and my math says that would put 65 mph @ 2886 RPM. I don't know if
this motor can pull that hard. If not, then I need to figure out how fast
the motor can go without self destructing. Also the front chain into the
transmission would be harder to adapt to the electric motor.
The inside of the existing "box" on the back is 26"x33.5"x13" which is the
simplest place to put the batteries. I have some relays off of the donor
lift truck to create the Fwd/Rev and main power contactors as well as a
Nativas (SRE brand) solid state control good for 325 amp continuous and 1000
amp intermittent.
Any suggestions or comments are welcome.
For the record I am in northern Calif. and on the flatlands.
Thanks,
John Neiswanger
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: Help with motor rating
> Your MKU motor is wound series in the field coils. For a faster motor at
X current you could replumb the coils to flow series parallel. 550 foot
pound = 1 HP don't add up here as John Wayland says he is pushing around
that amount at 348 volt with two motors. The Corvette he raced last race
was stated to have 410 HP and over 400 foot pounds. Use the free spin data
to see where you stand as at least you will know that all is working per
factory. The rest will be up to you (and group) to determine what that
motor will carry and the voltage needed for your speed / range goals.
> Hope this helps
> Jim
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Thank-you for the info, so now I am confused (still), I haven't got a clue
> to the 5 lb load. Is that 5 ft/lbs of torque and how do I get that
> amplified to any usable power? As I read all the things it takes 550
> ft/lbs for 1 HP. Also @24V and 20A that works out to 480 watts or
> 480/746=.64HP and @36V and 75A works out to 3.6HP.
>
> The controller I have is rated 24-48V and I may be able to get to 36 or 48
> if I use 12V batteries. I know there is not enough room to put 8 ea 6s in
> there.
>
> I have made a heroic assumption that this is a series field motor, is that
> true? The Prime Mover had a GE EV-1 control and I am not fully clear on
> what I ended up taking out of the unit. I have traced the wiring, but the
> EV-1 is an unknown "black box" on my sketch with too many power wires for
my
> simple logic. (A1,P,A2,T1,N possibly not in that order)
>
> I'll try cross posting this onto the list as well in case it can help
anyone
> else.
>
> Thanks,
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Husted
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Help with motor rating
>
>
> Hey John
> Thought I'd get you those test specs for the MKU. The L600 manual says
that
> motor should run at these specs.
> 24 volts @ 20 amps @ 4400 RPM's @ no load
> 36 volts @ 75 amps @ 2500 to 2760 RPM's @ 5 lbs load
> These motors had an OEM volt rating of 24 to 48 volts
> so if you were to run it at 12 volts @ no load you should be around 2500
to
> 3000 RPMs and still around 20 amps + -.
>
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> I was able to get in a few hours this weekend on the motor and have gotten
> it back together. I had to take the shaft down about .018" and the end
bell
> out to 55mm and also make the pocket .060" deeper. Sorry for the mixed
> measurements, but I didn't keep the notes over the several work sessions.
I
> am pleased with the result as it spins by hand very easily with the
brushes
> lifted.
>
> I hooked it up to my old Snap-on charger and the shaft actually turned
some.
> I didn't check the voltage or speed as I didn't want to let it run too
long
> as the charger is in need of some work. I just replaced the selenium
> rectifier in it (fried) with a selenium stack that I had laying around and
> the voltage is some where down around 11 volts due to the multiple diode
> drops.
>
> As for the shaft I think if all else fails, I can try making a sprocket or
> hub with 6 keyways in it. Just start with the minor diameter of the spline
> and space the keyways around the circle.
>
> I have good intentions like everyone else to create a diary of the
> conversion to put it up on my website, we'll just have to see if time and
> desire keep up. At least so far I have been taking pictures of anything I
> think might be of interest to anyone else.
>
> John Neiswanger
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Husted
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Help with motor rating
>
>
> Hey John
> Good to talk to you
> MKU I know them well and will look up what prestolite says it should run.
> It should power that rig pretty nicely. That looks like a pretty nice ride
> and I would like to see pics as you go through developement to finished.
If
> you are unable to get that plate to work, I have some good salvage plates
> that might work well as candidates. Second, if you can not find a shaft I
> could install a more user friendly shaft into that armature for you to tap
> into. What you have in mind sound good though,just thought I'd offer you
> some options if all does not go as planned, as there are many way you can
> skin that cat so to speak. I thought your motor had no numbers on it so I
> thought pic. Although it took you effort, we got to meet and I got to see
> yet another EV. Way cool good luck and I'll try to get to you what I can
> find out to you. My general feel is that although it may not be the
fastest
> EV out there that motor should do well and you will be turning heads in no
> time. Good luck. And thank you for your kind words.
>
> Jim
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> Thank-you for the offer. Attached is a picture of the motor, the end bell
> and just for fun the proposed donor vehicle. I do have a part number on
the
> motor of MKU-4005 which Prestolite reports as an "out of production model"
> with no info available. It was removed from a Prime Mover stock picker as
> the main drive motor and the front bearing is in the gearbox and was on
the
> outside of a helical gear that slipped onto the motor shaft. I was able to
> get a bearing at the local bearing house 55mm X 30mm which is just 3mm
> larger OD than the Oil seal that was in the end bell. I am intending to
> turn the end bell out to take the bearing which should get the front of
the
> armature supported. The shaft is a 6 spline by 1" which I haven't tried to
> locate a sprocket/hub/connector for yet.
>
> In response to your post to the list this evening, I for one, appreciate
all
> of your input and would have thought you were one of the charter members
if
> not told otherwise.
>
> Thank-you for any information you are able to provide on this motor or
> project.
> respectfully,
> John
> John Neiswanger
> Industrial Electronics
> Gridley, CA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Husted"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Help with motor rating
>
>
> > If you can get a pic forwarded to me I would probably recognizes it. If
I
> do I can look some spec's up from the prestolite L600 service book.
> >
> > Jim Husted
> > Hi_Torque Electric
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I have a Prestolite 24 volt motor and am unable to get any information
> from
> > them as it is so old. Is there some safe and hopefully simple way to
find
> > the RPM and power capabilities of this motor. I want to use it in a
> > motorcycle conversion at either 24 or 36 volts. It is 7&1/4" diameter
and
> > 11" long if that gives any clues.
> >
> > respectfully,
> > John Neiswanger
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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> I have wasted a lot of hours recently trying to find actual numbers for
> rolling resistance of currently manufactured tires. The only source I
> have found is the Green Seal report from 2003, which lists only one
> decent tire, Bridgestone B381 (R=0.0062). Does anyone know of any
> reliable sources for more measurements?
>
> I measured my rolling resistance last week at R=0.025; the tires could
> be more than half of that. The best way to find out is to replace them.
>
> Brian
> www.skewray.com/alfa
I've shopped based on that report, but some of the lowest RRs on the Green Seal
list are winter tires. The Sumitomo entry is the cheapest, but some tire sites
give it poor reviews. Other models on the list can be hard to find...and no-one
in my area carries Nokian! Has anyone else got a RR listing for common brands
and models?
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Baldors seem to me to have small brushes compaired to ADC and Prestolites
designs. I've always found the parts harder to find with a bit more bite on
costs. On a pro side it should have a variable time brush ring built in. My
feeling is you might have brush issues. What size, diameter is this?
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Rich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
what do you folks think a baldor forklift 2 HP 36 volt 53 amp 2800 rpm motor
would do in a volkswagen beetle with gears?
Rich
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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--- Begin Message ---
That diagram says that it's the "non-echo" version, but as drawn,
wouldn't the current flow through T2, R4 (10 Ohms), and pins 1,2 of IC1
during TX?
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
At 03:21 PM 9/15/2005, Eric Poulsen wrote:
Looking at this page, I see a schematic:
http://aaron.birenboim.com/EV/misc/EVilBusMirror.html
Just thought I'd mention that I created a more legible version of the
schematic.
It's at:
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com/EV/EvilBus.gif (smaller)
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com/EV/EvilBus.pdf (prints nicer)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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electric motorcyle enthusiasts:
I wish to sell a GE/Yamaha Sep-Ex motor (48V, 6.7"). I used it for my
boat (#482 in the EVAlbum, the Frankenmerc).
I made an adapter so it is a dual bearing motor. Normally it is a
single bearing motor. Actually, i drew it up and Keith Richman
machined it.
Anyways, I am going BLDC, so I am interested in selling it. Located in NH.
Anyone interested?
Seth
On 9/15/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> An update on Compact Power Inc. the Monument, Colorado based research arm of
> LG Chem that makes large format Li-Poly batteries.
>
> LG Chem has moved Compact Power Inc. to somewhere near Detroit and narrowed
> the focus for their large format Li-Poly products on Hybrid Electric Vehicle
> applications. I imagine their web site will be given some attention soon.
>
> The company's previous operation in Monument has moved to a new location in
> Palmer Lake and is now called Colorado Power Systems. This company cooperates
> will LG Chem, but is no longer a subsidiary. Colorado Power Systems remains
> focused on military and battery electric vehicle applications for their large
> format Li-Poly battery technology. The significant news is that their
> batteries are no longer being hand built. A production facility is up and
> running.
> Their BEV race car (famous for the Pikes Peak race in 2003 and 2004 with Tim
> Eckert and Jeri Unser at the wheel) now has a fresh set of the new batteries
> installed. For more information see their web site at
> _http://www.coloradops.com/_ (http://www.coloradops.com/) .
>
> Mike Bachand
> DEVC
> Colorado
> Kawasaki Ninja EV
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:35:20 EDT
> Subject: Re: electric motorcycle performance
> A tidbit of information for folks about CPI (Compact Power Inc.) located in
> Momument Colorado. In 2003 and 2004 they were producing hand built prototype
> large format (~8" X 11") Li-Poly batteries which seemed ideal for EVs.
> Haven't heard much from them in 2005. Their website is down (says new site
> coming
> in June 2005) _www.compactpower.com_ (http://www.compactpower.com) .
>
> As you may know they were a US based research arm of LG Chem a Korean
> advanced battery company. No response to 2 recent attempts to contact people
> that I
> know that work there. Their phone says they are now called Colorado Power
> Systems. Not sure what to conclude from all this, but will advise the list if
> any new news surfaces in the next week or so.
>
> Mike Bachand
> DEVC
> Colorado
>
>
>
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Hi John,
Me myself am doing the cheapest conversion i can get my hands on. I am also
a uni student, in second last year doing this conversion project as my
thesis so i know the meaning of BUDGET!!.
I have also tried to use a forklift motor, gcart motors etc. but at the end
of a day you can't really specify a conversion based on cost. If you are
going to design something that is basically SLOW and cost 3000 then so be
it. There will be a point in time where you would want to upgrade, add more
stuff in, and then there is where its going to cost you more. Because, new
motor, new adapter plate, new controller, new batteries, new mounts. It
almost as if its going from square one. I too work part time, and i made up
my mind to convert my Fiat126 into something with the minimal performance
using 6.7Inch, alltrax, trojan SCS225 which i know some of you out there
will kill me for! and also the wiring and installation i do myself. That
already cost me 4K aussie dollars and then i need to add some more for
batteries and controller and also suspension upgrade, registration,
mechanical work. Its bout costing me 6-7K and thats a bare minimal slow, low
range vehicle. However, the parts i use are new. if you can get free and
extremely cheap parts, then go for it. But over here the market is small and
not many second hand parts like motors and controller.
But anyway i wish you all the best. And yeah don't go partying for a couple
weekends and you'd be suprised how much money that can save you,, and could
even buy you a controller etc..
Cheers
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