EV Digest 4728
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Install Avcon Plug or get the adapter?
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Quick Optima Question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Highway capable conversion on a budget?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: NEDRA Records for 2005
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Quick Optima Question
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Highway capable conversion on a budget?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Sporting an EV Grin
by Ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Highway capable conversion on a budget?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) LRR Tires Continued
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) RE: Albright SW200A Contactors $50 <Now $35>
by "Rick Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) AIR Lab's Battery Early Warning System (was RE: Help on BMS Pricing)
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Voltsrabbit Kit for Sale
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) newbie- where to start? 2001 PT Cruiser
by Tony Godshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: baldor motor
by "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Eliminating Chronic Battery Box Odors
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Attachments
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EVLN(tzero is a reason to not give up on EVs)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EVLN(Toyota lets drivers keep their pre-Prius electric cars on road)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Rear wheel recommendations
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Fest-ev-a project update
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: What charger to use?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Lithium Battery Users?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: LRR Tires Continued
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Sporting an EV Grin
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Highway capable conversion on a budget?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Metal cutting saws.. was Plasma Cutter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Alright, with my Saturn conversion working properly finally (Thanks again Otmar
for all your help) I'm getting closer and closer to having a daily driveable
car, I'm hoping to bring it home this weekend from the shop where I'm working
on it.
So that leades me to this topic. There is still somewhat of an available
infrastructure in the Phoenix area, though a lot of the paddle chargers have
been removed. I do know there are still some spots left that largely have the
paddle and avcon chargers, in particular there is an APS office about 3 miles
from my house that I know still has there paddle and avcon charger there to
which I was thinking "hey free juice." So I wanted some opinions on this, I can
either A) Buy the Avcon plug for about $140 I think they are? Avcon's email
address is dead though so that kind of concerns me. Or B) EAA has an Avcon to
Nema something something plug adapter for a bit more.
Does anyone have any thoughts on either? Is it difficult to trick the Avcon
chargers in to turning power on? I know there is some kind of communication
between the vehicle and the charger. Thoughts? Thanks.
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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--- Begin Message ---
I have a newer Optima YT D34/78-950 that indicates it provides 55AH, 870CA,
650CCA, RC120.
I have a set of older Optima YT Model D750 currently installed and they will
eventually need to be replaced. The label shows RC 124 min, 65 AH, 750CCA.
Surprisingly these state they were built in Aurora Colorado.
Simple questions...
1) Is the newer D34 the best Optima for EV MC applications where space is
limited?
2) Can anyone explain why the older batteries are labeled (65AH to 55AH) to
provide more amp hours? Is there really a difference in AH capacity between
the old and new?
3) If an Optima YT AGM is empty(?) at 10.50 volts at what exact voltage is
it considered full when properly charged? I see 14.7v on the Optima site before
the 1hr finishing charge. Is it full at 15volts?
Thanks,
Mike Bachand
DEVC
Colorado
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--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:52:46 -0700, "Roger Stockton"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>John G. Lussmyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> To do this on a really low budget, wouldn't a "Bad Boy" charger be
>> less expensive? (say, a Variac and a bridge rectifier.)
>
>Not really. If one buys new parts to build a variac charger, a variac
>comparable in output to the $500 Delta-Q charger (72V 12A) costs nearly
>$300 on its own:
>
><http://www.iseincstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=48>
>
>To this one must add a voltmeter and ammeter and bridge rectifier, plus
>some sort of enclosure to bundle it all together.
I've never paid more than $100 for a Variac, even the big 20kva one
that controls my neon bench bombarder. I can pick up 10 amp variacs
at hamfests all day for under $50, sometimes under $25.
The main purpose of my post. There is another method, one I've used a
lot. A cheap AC welder ("buzz box") makes a nifty variable impedance
choke without modification. Simply short the welding leads and hook
the 240 volt input cord in series with the load, the rectifier in this
case. The current that is passed through the primary is proportional
to the amp setting. I like the little Millers with the crank handle
that is continuously variable, though they do make a lot of racket.
If you make up a cord consisting of a 240vac dryer or range plug, a
range outlet to match your welder, a bridge and some 'gator clips, you
can convert your welder to a charger and vice versa by simply moving
the welder's power plug from the wall outlet to the one on the bad boy
cord.
A standard Miller is good for from about 20 amps to about 80. To go
lower, use one of the el-cheapo light duty welders that Harbor Freight
and ilk offer.
This type of charger actually works a LOT better than a variac because
it more approximates a constant current source than the variac does.
The adjustment is much smoother and the current remains more constant
as the battery voltage rises. Most of the bad rep a "bad boy" charger
has, I suspect, is because of the constant-voltage nature of a
variac/bridge combo.
If a variac is all that is available, it can do constant current in
one of two ways. A series choke or converting the variac into a
variable choke. Here's a choke that I wound that goes in series with
a phase angle SCR controller that drives a pole pig (utility
transformer) in reverse used in neon tube processing. The "core" is
mild steel gas welding rods, though I now use those iron wires sold to
hold fiberglass batting between the floor joists in a house. Much
cheaper. This nominally good for 60 amps intermittent duty. The wire
is about 10 ga., a spool-end from my friendly local electric motor
shop.
A variac can be converted into a variable choke by removing the stator
from the rest of the works and carefully sawing through the core
between the ends of the windings. This makes an air gap. This ruins
the Variac as a variac so consider it a one-way mod. This is very
common among high power tesla-coilers.
Yet another method of achieving an essentially constant current supply
is to insert a suitable quantity of motor run capacitors in series
with the output of the variac before the bridge. This is most
practical in the low current range, say, from about 1 to 20 amps. One
can fairly easily compute the uF needed but I'd rather just start
clipping in caps from my boneyard until I get the current I want :-)
Electric motor repair shops will frequently give these away in 5 and
10uF values. The reason is that most replacement AC blower motors
come with new caps. Those that don't, the shop usually sells the
customer one anyway. The usually perfectly fine old cap is tossed
into a box where they sit until thrown away or someone like me comes
along :=)
IFF one is willing to babysit the charger AND if he doesn't try to
cram in that last 5% or so, a bad boy charger isn't all that bad to a
pack, at least to floodeds. It's just that the opportunity to screw
up is so available!
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken Trough [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> First of all, as has already been pointed out, it is fine to set
> multiple records during the day, provided they are in a single class.
Yes, yes, this is clearly understood. I thought my response was clear
on that; the bit you quoted saying that essentially one could set ony a
single record at an event was not mine but Dean's. (That said, one
could argue that it is impossible to set multiple records in a single
class; there is a single record available per class, though one might
reset it multiple times during the day.)
> Secondly, the rationale for no class switching, as I
> understand it, is the logistics nightmare of multiple
> inspections throughout the day.
I suppose I could buy that argument, though my experience with Woodburn
has been that not all racers are lined up for tech inspection first
thing in the day anyway, so the reality is that the tech inspector must
make himself available at various times in the day as vehicles arrive
and/or finish getting prepped. If lots of people wanted to run in
various classes it could become a logistics nightmare, but has this ever
been a problem in practice? I would expect that the only people wanting
to run their vehicle in a higher class would be those that hold the
record for their present class, or that just reset the record for that
class; after all, if you aren't the top in your own class why on earth
would you worry about trying to compete in a higher class?
> I don't think there is any resistance to the concept of class
> switching, just that the reality of the limited resources at
> this time doesn't allow it to be practical yet.
Hopefully you are correct. It seems that at the present time "all" that
is required is that the tech inspector make himself available as
required for the duration of the event. There really only seems to be
an issue if the inspector himself wants to race at the event and is
therefore unavailable for some of the time (side question: does this not
mean that there must be a minimum of 2 inspectors if one inspector is to
race, since surely that racer's vehicle must be inspected by someone
else?).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Wrote
At 05:27 PM 9/16/2005, you wrote:
I have a newer Optima YT D34/78-950 that indicates it provides 55AH, 870CA,
650CCA, RC120.
I have a set of older Optima YT Model D750 currently installed and they will
eventually need to be replaced. The label shows RC 124 min, 65 AH, 750CCA.
Surprisingly these state they were built in Aurora Colorado.
That is where the Optima plant is located. About ten miles from my
house. I have picked up batteries directly from the factory several times.
Simple questions...
1) Is the newer D34 the best Optima for EV MC applications where space is
limited?
You mean the D51? The D34 is the standard Group 34 Optima.
The D51 looks like a pretty nice battery for high-voltage cars or
normal voltage smaller vehicles (like bikes.)
2) Can anyone explain why the older batteries are labeled (65AH to 55AH) to
provide more amp hours? Is there really a difference in AH capacity between
the old and new?
Optima was bought out by Johnson Controls (JCI). They promptly
eliminated Optima's entire R&D department. Now JCI can't seem to make the
batteries as well as Optima did originally. They have no one working for
them that knows how to "fix" the problems in the process that are causing
lower capacity. Thus, JCI elected to lower the A-hr label instead of fixing
the problem(s) in manufacturing.
3) If an Optima YT AGM is empty(?) at 10.50 volts at what exact voltage is
it considered full when properly charged?
Open-circuit voltage, 12 hours after charge, is 13.0 volts. This
depends on temperature, of course.
To fully charge an Optima, you have to go over 15 volts. Look
through the EV list archives and you will find that i have listed the
proper charging methods for Optimas about twenty times.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I've never paid more than $100 for a Variac, even the big
> 20kva one that controls my neon bench bombarder. I can pick
> up 10 amp variacs at hamfests all day for under $50,
> sometimes under $25.
As I stated, if one compares buying a new variac and associated parts
the cost is considerably more than buying used or surplus parts. One
can certainly find a better price than the Staco unit I found, even on
new parts, as John Lussmeyer pointed out after he spent a bit more time
searching than I did (though I would be leery of the reliability of a
Chinese variac that cost 1/2 as much as the Staco... you tend to get
what you pay for).
> The main purpose of my post. There is another method, one
> I've used a lot. A cheap AC welder ("buzz box") makes a
> nifty variable impedance choke without modification.
Now this is a cool trick, although I'm not sure it falls into the
"budget" nature of the thread unless one already has the welder laying
around.
> IFF one is willing to babysit the charger AND if he doesn't
> try to cram in that last 5% or so, a bad boy charger isn't
> all that bad to a pack, at least to floodeds. It's just that
> the opportunity to screw up is so available!
Yes, exactly!
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I took the 1983 Kurbwatt on its maiden voyage this morning. I have had the
truck for a couple of years with the intention of making a hot rod out of
it, though my plan now pales in comparison to Gone Postal. With gas prices
hovering around $3 / gallon, I decided to go ahead and replace the 6v golf
cart batteries with a fresh set and get it on the road while I collect the
parts and cash to upgrade it later. It only has 15k miles on it and
everything seems to work. It has better acceleration than I expected and
drove quite well. I mounted and connected the orignal Hobart Bros off-board
charger, but it doesn't seem to taper off as described in the manual. It
started around 15 amps and got donwn to 10 and stayed there. My batteries
now show 88.8 volts for the 84 volt pack. 6.34 volts per battery. I assume
this is fully charged. Not sure as this my first pack of flooded batteries.
I would appreciate hearing from anyone that has had experience with the
Hobart charger or with a Kurbwatt. It would appear that the charger was
originally wired for 3 phase and was converted to single phase somewhere
along the way. I will send photos to the album soon
Ben
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/384.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well Roger, I think I have beat your budget.
1984 Fiero bought at auction for $700.
GE motor and EVT-15 control donated by GE when I
worked at Clark Material Handling. Adaptor plate free,
from a Fiero GE started working on and did not finish.
While working at GE on Chrysler TEVan battery
chargers I scored 22 SAFT NiCd STM-180 batteries for
free (donated to 'Hower University') All other parts
aquired for free from various GE 'cleanups', including
a TEVan PFC charger. Total conversion cost was $700
and my labor.
This car was sold to a local for $800 minus the
batteries. 2 years later he sold it to ZAP in
California for $1500 plus some worthless stock
options.
Hard to believe this 1984 Fiero bought from a
Lexington , KY auction made it's way to CA. Who knows
where it is now!!
Rod
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Stefano Landi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > I think I wrote the book on that budget-minded EV
> thing. So
> > far my project including the donor car has cost me
> $1,350
> > CDN, so about $1K USD.
>
> > so my budget for my EV project is about $4K CDN,
> it may be
> > difficult, but this is my goal and my expectations
> for
> > performance are in keeping with this budget.
>
> Well, that's pretty good, but I think I've got you
> beat ;^> (and I
> suspect that Steve Clunn probably has conversions
> under his belt that
> shame us both ;^)
>
> My '87 Suzuki Forsa was donated to the cause by a
> friend after she
> siezed its engine ($0). A set of used YTs were
> donated to the cause by
> Ralph Merwin when he upgraded to NiCds; to be fair
> let's assign a cost
> of $100 to cover dinner and the cost of the extra
> gas associated with
> transporting them back from Portland to Vancouver
> BC. My present
> controller (a GE EV-1) essentially cost me about
> $100 (bought a 96V
> conversion, then sold it with a $100 (IIRC) discount
> on the basis that
> the controller be returned to me when the vehicle
> was upgraded to a
> Curtis). I work for Delta-Q, which donated 3
> chargers (2 for charging,
> one as DC/DC) to the cause. My battery boxes were
> fabricated by the
> steel trades department at the local technical
> college; cost about $100
> (dinner for the instructor & his wife).
>
> I actually did have to pay for a few things: about
> $1500 for the ADC 8"
> and adapter, about $600 for my 3 Kilovac EV250
> contactors, a few hundred
> for Super VuTron 2/0 cable and connectors and
> stainless hardware. It
> looks like I ought to be on the road for about $3k,
> though to be fair I
> will almost certainly have to buy a new pack before
> I'll have reasonable
> range, and I do have a blown up DCP Raptor 600
> undergoing repair which
> will be replacing the EV-1 ASAP.
>
> Roger.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, I currently have 215/65 15 on my truck. I want to switch to Michelin Agilis
tires (205/65 15) which are narrower and can be pumped up to 55 psi. According
to the tire calculator the new tires will run 2% too fast, at 60 mph my speedo
will read 58.8 mph. Questions:
Will this affect my antilock braking system?
What kind of gains do most of you think I would see with these tires?
If not these, then what would you guys recommend for my truck?
Thanks.
John David
P.S. Is Seth from Brunswick still on this list? I sent him an e-mail a few
months ago but never heard from him.
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--- Begin Message ---
All:
This is what I have learned about the Albright contactors.
(thanks to Steve Muskarelli for getting this info from Curtis!)
Curtis/Albright Model # SW200A-678
>Type: SW200A 56vdc CW 678-(Exclusively for Lucent Technologies) Coil
>Voltage: 56 V Continuous DC Coil Resistance: (Ohms) 182
>Pull In Voltage: 37 V Max.
>Drop Out Voltage: 15 V Max.
>Coil Power Dissipation: 17.23 Watts
>Additional Features:
>
>DIODE ON COIL, POSITIVE AT BOTTOM
>LUCENT PART NO: 407903244
Link to photo 1: http://home.comcast.net/~barnes.rick/Albright1.jpg
Link to photo 2: http://home.comcast.net/~barnes.rick/Albright2.jpg
The seller will lower the price for a bulk purchase. Please respond off list
if you are interested in these for $35 each plus shipping, and I will make
the purchase and distribute. Please include this info:
- quantity wanted
- shipping address
- preferred shipper
- how you would like to pay (PayPal preferred)
Rick Barnes
Aloha, OR 97006
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 6:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
John:
I am confirming with the seller the coil voltage. It may be 56V not 12V. I
will let you know what I hear.
Rick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got some very good inputs from this list regarding
the pricing of the system. I was expecting more
responds though. This would help me to make my
decision on whether it makes sense to take the risk
and bring this system to the market.
It is not clear from the previous PDF file how the
system work. And, I did it on purpose to find out
what you think the system should do. I updated the
PDF file and also made a 2-min video clip showing how
it works in our test vehicle.
I hope to get more respond this time.
http://airlabcorp.com/EWS/EWS_Sheet.pdf
http://airlabcorp.com/EWS/EWSDemo.wmv
Thank you.
Ed Ang
AIR Lab Corp.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sheri,
I don't know if this would help but there has been a sweet clean AZ bred
cabriolet for sale down on the corner that I am pretty sure could be had for
$2,500. Excellent body and paint, nice interior and what looks like a recent
top. Someone could literally drive it home and then convert it. I tried to
get Bob to take it home with him but we couldn't find a hitch available for
his Prius. David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 3:11 PM
Subject: Voltsrabbit Kit for Sale
I'm posting this on behalf of one of our customers. He bought one of our
Voltsrabbit Kits for an '86 Cabriolet. It's a complicated sad story, but
circumstances prevented him from doing the conversion. He has the
complete kit and all instructions, (but not the donor car, that's part of
the sad story) still in the original boxes and would like to sell it. He
is in Texas. The kit currently retails for $7,995. If you are interested,
contact him directly: Phil Kothmann, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, folks.
I tried to send the following message but it said I wasn't a
subscriber, which is odd, because I went back and verified
that my e-mail address I'm sending with is the one I
subscribed with.
T
>
> Hi, folks.
>
> I've got a 2001 PT Cruiser I'd like to convert to PHEV.
> ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_hybrid_electric_vehicle )
>
> Existing engine (4 cyl basic) is good, transmission is bad,
> everything else is fine.
>
> Any recommendations on where to start on my quest?
>
> I'm thinking to run primarily on electricity charged from my
> home outlet, and run the motor at the optimal efficiency RPM
> as a range extender only for the rare longer trip.
>
> So I'm imagining a generator hooked to the internal
> combustion engine, batteries in place of the back seat, and
> an electric motor where transmission is.
>
> Am I way off base?
>
> I'm not terribly far from SJSU or UC Davis, if that matters.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Tony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim
The Baldor Motor is 10 inches long and 6.5 inches wide with a 7/8 16 spline
shaft. Thanks for the reply..
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: baldor motor
> Baldors seem to me to have small brushes compaired to ADC and Prestolites
> designs. I've always found the parts harder to find with a bit more bite on
> costs. On a pro side it should have a variable time brush ring built in. My
> feeling is you might have brush issues. What size, diameter is this?
>
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> Rich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> what do you folks think a baldor forklift 2 HP 36 volt 53 amp 2800 rpm motor
> would do in a volkswagen beetle with gears?
> Rich
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.25/102 - Release Date: 9/14/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 15 Sep 2005 at 14:58, Mark Freidberg wrote:
> So is it normal for flooded
> batteries to persistenly give off odors, but to release sulfuric acid mist
> only
> during charging past 80% s.o.c. and under heavy discharge?
It sounds like you're overcharging, and may be reversing some cells on
discharge. A slight acid tang isn't unusual at finish, but odors during
discharge are usually bad news.
> I'd like to replace the flooded batteries with AGMs.
That won't fix the problem. It may not even fix the symptom.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 15 Sep 2005 at 17:40, Chris Taylor Jr wrote:
> Is there anyway to strip the attachments from the message (digest mode)
SJSU has once again had to shut down the attachment stripper because it was
causing problems with the server. They are working on this problem. More
when I hear about it.
I'll forward your post to the support crew.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 15 Sep 2005 at 15:06, Ken Trough wrote:
> > Indeed, the tzero can only go 280 to 300 miles at 60 mph without
> > recharging
>
> Typical media slant against electrics. Yeah, like 300 miles is a short
> range.
If it were 1000 miles, they'd still say "only 1000 miles." I fear you have
it right; most (though not all) automotive "journalists" seem to be biased
against EVs. No range will ever be enough for them.
Ah, but notice how they omit to mention the limited range of fuel cell or
hydrogen/ICE vehicles, or bury it deep in the article. They seem to forget
the word "only" in that context.
No amount of education will help with this; "rehabilitation" is the only
solution. (Just kidding. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 15 Sep 2005 at 11:21, bruce parmenter wrote:
> With no public fanfare, Toyota has agreed to
> let customers resume driving about 1,000 discontinued electric
> vehicles that were a precursor to the popular Prius gas-electric
> hybrid.
The RAV4-EVs were not precursors to the Prius. Unless I have the chronolgy
wrong, the Prius was on the road in Japan well before the RAV4-EV was
introduced in the states.
However, it's not unusual for automakers and journalists to portray the BEV
as inferior to, and supserceded by, the quasi-hybrids now on offer. After
all, how could one expect them to suggest that what they had to sell you
previously is superior in any way to what they want to sell you now?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
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On 15 Sep 2005 at 22:44, [a poster] wrote:
> I have spent considerable time answering questions (in which I have
> something worthwhile to contribute) to new posters who are obviously more
> interested in posting "what-if" and "I was wondering" questions rather than
> getting down to building an EV. I have learned my lesson, and will not
> respond
> to the likes of ... and others of similar nature.
Let's think about this from another prespective.
Starting on a conversion means quite a substantial commitment of time and
resources, and I don't blame newbies for considering possibilities. That
shows that they are giving some thought to the process, rather than just
accepting the usual Chinese-restaurant-menu approach (Small car or small
pickup? AC or DC? ADC or Prestolite? Curtis or Zilla? PFC or Zivan? Golf
Car or Optima?).
While I'll admit that some of what I've read in these "what-if" posts has
seemed a bit far fetched to me too, there's always the chance that someone
will advance an idea that none of us has considered - perhaps sparking
innovation among the more experienced types.
So, I don't think we should discourage new members from posting questions.
If you or anyone else thinks that a particular poster or particular question
isn't worth your or his time, by all means ignore it; but please, let's not
send the neophytes away, or discourage them from giving the process some
thought. All of us were there once.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 13 Sep 2005 at 23:35, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> Looks a lot like an Aspire transmission. I've been told many parts are bolt
> in
> compatable.
They are both Kia products from Korea. The Festiva was a Kia Pride, and the
Aspire was a Kia Avella. The drivelines are (at least) similar, so I would
guess that a motor adapter (for example) for one would work with the other.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 12 Sep 2005 at 17:16, David (Battery Boy) Hawkins wrote:
> "Zivans...patience with them." Can you explain this?
>From what I understand in exchanges with those who have used Zivans, it
sometimes takes a few (or several) trips back to the dealer or US support /
distribution site before the charger is set up the way you want it. There
seems to be an attitude of "we know better than you what you need" - perhaps
true in some cases, but frustrating when one is reasonably sure what has to
change to accomplish proper battery treatment.
Others' experience will no doubt vary.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 15 Sep 2005 at 1:42, "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If some company would offer some kind
> of a 'drop in' replacement for our floodies or assembled battery packs
> including charger in a way that would enable us to bolt it into place and
> start driving, I (and I guess a lot others) would pay significantly more.
Isn't that what Valence lithium modules do? They are supposedly a direct
replacement for marine batteries. I think that a few Solectria Force owners
have fitted them to their cars in place of the original lead gel batteries.
They're reportedly very expensive, so perhaps not what you had in mind; but
at least some Force owners seem not to be very price sensitive. After all
they paid $35,000 for an econobox conversion! ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: LRR Tires Continued
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 20:50:43 -0400
OK, I currently have 215/65 15 on my truck. I want to switch to Michelin
Agilis tires (205/65 15) which are narrower and can be pumped up to 55 psi.
According to the tire calculator the new tires will run 2% too fast, at 60
mph my speedo will read 58.8 mph.
I think you mean that at 58.8 MPH the speedo will read 60. Right? If the
new tires are smaller, the speedo will think you are going faster than you
really are.
Questions:
Will this affect my antilock braking system?
Probably not - it's not much of a diameter change.
What kind of gains do most of you think I would see with these tires?
Why do you think you these tires will be lower rolling resistance than the
ones you had? Is it because or the tire model?
Will you run at higher pressure?
There is no evidence ( that I know of) that a smaller tire will give you
lower rolling resistance.
If not these, then what would you guys recommend for my truck?
Sorry - I don't have any recommendations.
Phil Marino
Thanks.
John David
P.S. Is Seth from Brunswick still on this list? I sent him an e-mail a few
months ago but never heard from him.
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On 16 Sep 2005 at 17:13, Ben wrote:
> I mounted and connected the orignal Hobart Bros off-board
> charger, but it doesn't seem to taper off as described in the manual. It
> started around 15 amps and got donwn to 10 and stayed there. My batteries now
> show 88.8 volts for the 84 volt pack. 6.34 volts per battery. I assume this
> is fully charged.
Did you measure that voltage while the charger was connected, or after
disconnecting it? If the latter, how LONG after disconnecting it?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 16 Sep 2005 at 13:13, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> To do this on a really low budget, wouldn't a "Bad Boy" charger be
> less expensive? (say, a Variac and a bridge rectifier.)
Maybe up-front, but a real charger will save money in the long run by
extending battery life.
The charger often tends to be the last item on the list for most converters.
I think this is a mistake, especially for beginners. Most people can live
with somewhat feeble acceleration, for example, but one of the quickest
turnoffs I know of for an EV newbie is facing a $1000 to $3000 bill for a
new battery after only a year or so.
I don't know that I'd make the charger #1, but I'd certainly move it up the
priority queue. In most cases, scrimping a bit on the controller won't kill
you battery.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On a related note: I have a 8" x 12" x 1/2" slab of aluminum that I
would like to use as a water-cooled heatsink. If I could drill a few
holes in it edgewise, I could make a "U" shaped path inside it, and
thread the ends for fittings (and a plug for the 3rd hole that connects
the ends of the first two.
Trouble is, a normal long twist drill bit wanders too much. I think it
would break out the side before I could drill that deep.
One suggest was a mill-end bit, which (I think) means the end is square
and not pointed. But I don't know of one long enough one to drill 10"
deep hole.
Paul Compton suggested an arc discharge cutter. Basically, you "drill"
with a carbon rod and high-current DC power supply. Push the rod close
to the aluminum, strike an arc to burn off a chunk, back off the rod to
clear the debris, and repeat. Since the rod never actually touches the
aluminum, it goes straight in, allowing perfectly straight holes.
It sounds like a great way to make these holes. But what's the catch?
Will it work? I have plenty of high-current DC available (as any EVer
will :-) But what kind of current and voltage should be used? Has anyone
tried anything like this?
--
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
-- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> Lee -- thanks for the VERY informative post...
You're most welcome!
> I found a reference on this in a post back in 1998 and was just
> going to email you about this when your post turned up. do you
> have any schematics for this puppy?
I don't seem to throw anything out, so I probably do have the schematic
somewhere for at least one of the variations (engineer disease -- I kept
changing things :-) It would just be hand-draw on paper. If I can find
it, I'll try to find a way to post it (probably one of my awful ASCII
schematics :-)
> So you essentially have three "speed" controls: 1) the rheostat
> to the field, 2) the three step contactor 3) the tranny. Sounds
> complicated to operate, at least initially... What is you opinion
> of the learning curve of this sort of arrangement?
Right. The series/parallel switch was actually operated by the
accellerator pedal along with the rheostat. It did have an odd feel;
like a car that "downshifts" when you depress the accellerator past a
certain point, and so has a distinct jump in accelleration. So anyone
who drives a stick shift car could drive it if they ignored the funny
accellerator step. ("It's supposed to do that...")
> In your opinion cost versus ease of operation, how does this
> compare to a PWM controller? ... how well would it work with
> a regular series wound motor?
A PWM controller provides much smoother throttle control. The "gas"
pedal response is normally smooth from a dead stop to full speed. It is
usually linear; 1/4 pedal = 1/4 speed, 1/2 pedal = half speed, 3/4 pedal
= 3/4 speed etc.
However, that is *not* the way most car's gas pedals work; carmakers rig
them to be NON-linear; they have a very strong response when you barely
depress the pedal (to give you the illusion of a "powerful" engine); 1/4
pedal = half speed, 1/2 pedal = 3/4 speed, and there's hardly any
difference at all between 3/4 and full. You can imitate this response in
an EV, but most people don't bother.
This smooth throttle pedal response (that can be tailored to exactly
match an ICE's gas pedal response) is what attracts most people to PWM
controllers. It's what they are used to, and what they expect.
The other big advantage of a PWM controller is that it can limit motor
current. This limits your accelleration -- but it can also keep an
unskilled driver from overdoing it and burning something up. If you
"floor" a contactor controller from a dead stop, you get a *huge*
current and a *huge* amount of torque. You're thrown back in the seat,
and it takes off like a rocket... until something breaks! The tires
spin, the clutch slips, a fuse blows, a wire melts, or worst of all, a
contactor welds and the motor is stuck FULLY ON!
In comparison, contactor controllers have discrete steps, like shifting
a transmission. The power is momentarily interrupted, the batteries
switched to produce a different voltage, and the power turned back on.
If the steps are small enough, the change in torque isn't too large.
Drivers notice, but it isn't too bad. It works best in underpowered
vehicles, where drivers typically use the gas pedal like an on/off
switch anyway!
Contactor controllers work the best with series motors. You can also use
them with shunt motors if you also vary the field current (as described
in my previous post). Contactor controllers don't work well for PM
motors unless you want fixed speeds.
--
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
-- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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