EV Digest 4731
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: "Install Avcon Plug or get the adapter?"
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: LRR Tires Continued
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Helix revisited
by Jon Glauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) S10 bad weather
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Low Rolling Resistance Tire Numbers
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EDM
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Drilling long holes, was Metal Cutting saws...
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: S10 bad weather
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
by Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: baldor motor
by "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: S10 bad weather
by Kevin Coughlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Low Rolling Resistance Tire Numbers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Highway capable conversion on a budget?-Fiero
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: NEDRA Records for 2005
by "Grannes, Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: FW: NEDRA Records for 2005
by "Grannes, Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Challenges was voltage = speed? (newbie)
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Albright SW200A Contactors $50 <Now $35>
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: wire and connector sizing
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Heatsink was Re: Drilling long holes
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EDM
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Drilling long holes
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Look on the bright side
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: An EV podcast
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: LRR Tires Continued
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I bought the Avcon inlet port "with Pilot" from
http://www.avconev.com/ The with pilot option has
the electronics to tell the Avcon box to turn on and
supply power. Apparently the Avcon inlets can be
configured to tell the Avcon what the car is looking
for as far as charging goes.
I will eventually mount the inlet on the truck and
wire it all in, for now I put a female 220 socket on
the other end and a male 20 plug on my PFC charger. I
also made a 4" 220 to 120 adapter for the PFC charger
side of things. I can now charge with the Avon, from
220 or from 110.
TiM
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: LRR Tires Continued
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 12:21:21 -0400
I would run them at the full 55 psi and it just seems to me that a narrower
tire at higher psi would have less rolling resistance. How wrong am I?
John
John - you may very well be right. Certainly higher pressure generally
results in lower rolling resistance. What pressure did you use with the
wider tires that you would replace?
As far as the benefit of a narrower tire, there just doesn't seem to be any
testing, one way or the other, that looks at rolling resistance vs tire
width.
I think wider tires would have lower RR - based on the fact that narrow
tires deflect more (vertically) for the same load at the same tire pressure
than wider tires. But, it's just an untested idea.
Some people seem to think that wider tires mean higher RR ( I'm not sure why
they think that way) .
But, nobody seems to have done any real comparative testing, so we just
don't know.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey another scooter converter!
I have a Elite 50 I'm trying to convert. I settled on an Etek and
48V. I am planning on remaking the body panels from fiberglass, and
building a new rear end however. Not a simple or quick project, but I'm
ambitious. I decided to rebuild the drive train because I have an 11:1
gear reduction in mine and thats too low to get me to 40mph (top speed).
The problem with the CVT is it aims for the ICEs most efficient RPM,
which may not be the same for electric.
If you want, I have a spreadsheet that calculates as much as possible
from some know data for any electric vehicle. Datapoints include: motor
speed/torque, gear ratio, ground speed, acceleration, air resistance,
and more. I'd send it to anyone interested.
Let us know what you get worked out!
-Jon Glauser
----
"He wo learns but does not think, is lost. He who thinks but does not
learn is in great danger" - Confusius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here are some questions that I havnt been able to track down answers to.
My Warp will be here on monday i believe according to Ryan , and i have
alot of the stuff coming in each week.
Here is my question....
My 1997 Chevy S10 - I live in northern maine where the climate can
change in a instant from zero degrees to rain and snow...
When i look at some of the pics on evalbum i notice that everyone takes
great care to mount alot of the electrical items under the hood. What
are people mounting the controllers, DC DC on top of etc? Are you folks
putting some kind of painted wood or metal across the inside of the
engine bay and bolting the parts onto it ?
Also, is there anyone who bolts the DC DC, Controller, etc inside the
truck possibly behind the seat ?
Also what do you guys do for weather protection? Its obvious that that
I dont want water, snow, dirt up in and around the warp or the
electrical parts. And at the same time i need to consider the cooling
needed. I have purchased an electric blow motor for the warp but often
times i see people mentioning putting parts where there is cool air
coming thru.
CWarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sep 16, 2005, at 12:43 PM, Phil Marino wrote:
There are two RE92 175/65-14's available. One has a 44 psi max
pressure, the other has a 50 psi max pressure. I assume there is a
difference in construction or number of plies, etc.
The '01-'03 Prius uses the 50psi tires. These are extra load rated (84S
is the speed and load rating marked on them) and have a rather low
treadwear rating of 160 (I've gotten great life, considering that
number.)
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Make your own EDM? That might take some time to get right, But a simple
sinker machine is going cheap nowadays on ebay. We are talking about
maintaining a gap of .003 to .015 depending on amperage and this gap
sets your cutting voltage. Machines I use have a dielectric fluid more
like the kerosine and a hydraulic servo and and amplifier board that
balances the spool valve against the spark gap voltage.
Rules of thumb
3amps per 1/8th inch square for graphite eletrode/steel workpiece
Positive polarity
On a squarewave of 25-100ms on and 25ms off expect about 1% electrode wear.
Aluminum machines away about twice as fast as steel and the recast
surface is hard.
a 30% increase in cutting speed can be had by running reverse polarity
on steel, but 10% of that is electrode wear :-(
For thru holes we use a rotobore, it spins a piece of tungston carbide
or copper tubing with fluid comming out the end as it sparks thru the work.
If milling a passage and covering it with acrylic or lexan with an
o-ring doesn't work, I have Yet another idea,
Mill a u shaped slot and press/lay in a piece of copper tubing. Where
it sticks out the end, put on compression fittings.
Then fill with epoxy. (devtap with copper in it)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree, the quality of the drills must be there before you coat them.
The TiN coating is so slight that any deformation and the TiN is gone.
We have endmils and lathe tools that are TiN coated. It really helps the
chip slide of the carbide cutters.
My favorite are the cobalt drills. extra money indeed, but what a
difference.
On long drills and deep holes, sharpening drills is a necessity, TiN is
only about .0007 thick.
On aluminum, this doesn't matter much, on steel it matters more, if you
are drilling tool steel or thru welded joints (oops) it matters the most.
And yes, 1/8 drills get tossed, but an 18" long 5/16 drill gets
sharpened! :-) let me know if you want to throw any of those away ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am changing out my old GE motor with a Warp 9, and using the GE external
blower which is a 6 inch Dayton blower fan, that clamps down on the brush air
intake screens.
The fan has a adapter curved mounted, so it fits the curved of the motor. This
adapter is bolted to a curved metal holder that have tabs weld on it and extend
down on the front of the motor and bolt to the face of the motor with the Warp
9 5/16 tapped bolt holes.
Even though the Warp 9 has a internal fan in it, I want a higher air input
force that would prevent any water or dust to get in.
I mounted a 6-inch diameter carburetor fan on the intake of this fan so as to
prevent any thing to get in.
On my EV which is a 1977 El Camino, the inner fenders have a large openings for
the suspension A-Arms. I draped a large neoprene 1/8 thick covering that was
fasten to the top of the inner fenders and had it extend all the way down as
low as the bottom of the wheels.
Above this rubber skirt line, I have aluminum platforms that runs down the
sides and the front. These are 1/4 inch thick plates for mounting cast
aluminum equipment enclosures that house all the electrical devices need.
These cast aluminum boxes are the same style as the plastic boxes. I got mine
from radioshack.com which is a commercial source. Not your local area Radio
Shack.
The front of the EV is completely block out with a custom made front end. Air
is draw in from a air damp and than up ward and than down ward, which filters
out any water if you stay under 80 mph.
My Zilla and contactors are in a enclosure that has a metal vertical chassis
plate that is mounted on supports extended about 10 inches from the fire wall.
A plastic wrap around cover is install over these units.
Another 6 inch Dayton blower fan provides input filter air which pressurize
this enclosure.
Below the frame and cross member, there is a bolt on steel plate that deflects
and protects the motor and any other device that is above it.
I painted all these deflection plates, platform plates and the entire front end
suspension system, with epoxy appliance paint that you can get from Home Depot.
You do not need any primer for this paint.
I painted all my aluminum with the stainless epoxy appliance paint. Let it
cured for about a week and than lightly rubbed it with steel wool to make it
look brush stainless steel.
Driving in snow over a foot deep and water that was 4 to 6 inches deep, I never
got the motor or controller wet.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Cwarman<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 1:08 PM
Subject: S10 bad weather
Here are some questions that I havnt been able to track down answers to.
My Warp will be here on monday i believe according to Ryan , and i have
alot of the stuff coming in each week.
Here is my question....
My 1997 Chevy S10 - I live in northern maine where the climate can
change in a instant from zero degrees to rain and snow...
When i look at some of the pics on evalbum i notice that everyone takes
great care to mount alot of the electrical items under the hood. What
are people mounting the controllers, DC DC on top of etc? Are you folks
putting some kind of painted wood or metal across the inside of the
engine bay and bolting the parts onto it ?
Also, is there anyone who bolts the DC DC, Controller, etc inside the
truck possibly behind the seat ?
Also what do you guys do for weather protection? Its obvious that that
I dont want water, snow, dirt up in and around the warp or the
electrical parts. And at the same time i need to consider the cooling
needed. I have purchased an electric blow motor for the warp but often
times i see people mentioning putting parts where there is cool air
coming thru.
CWarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thanks again Lee.
as far as a schematic goes, any ol' thing will do, or even (as I begin
to understand how cantactor's work) a detailed description would get me
down the road a ways. in fact, save yourself the effort -- I'll try to
figure it out and send it along. that way I'll learn how to do it.
Lee Hart wrote:
Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
Lee -- thanks for the VERY informative post...
You're most welcome!
I found a reference on this in a post back in 1998 and was just
going to email you about this when your post turned up. do you
have any schematics for this puppy?
I don't seem to throw anything out, so I probably do have the schematic
somewhere for at least one of the variations (engineer disease -- I kept
changing things :-) It would just be hand-draw on paper. If I can find
it, I'll try to find a way to post it (probably one of my awful ASCII
schematics :-)
that's what I have a store room for... sheesh, so much crap.
So you essentially have three "speed" controls: 1) the rheostat
to the field, 2) the three step contactor 3) the tranny. Sounds
complicated to operate, at least initially... What is you opinion
of the learning curve of this sort of arrangement?
Right. The series/parallel switch was actually operated by the
accellerator pedal along with the rheostat. It did have an odd feel;
like a car that "downshifts" when you depress the accellerator past a
certain point, and so has a distinct jump in accelleration. So anyone
who drives a stick shift car could drive it if they ignored the funny
accellerator step. ("It's supposed to do that...")
like a auto-tranny on an underpower ICE... punch it and it downshifts.
shouldn't be that difficult for a driver to figure out, and certainly a
lot cheaper...
In your opinion cost versus ease of operation, how does this
compare to a PWM controller? ... how well would it work with
a regular series wound motor?
A PWM controller provides much smoother throttle control. The "gas"
pedal response is normally smooth from a dead stop to full speed. It is
usually linear; 1/4 pedal = 1/4 speed, 1/2 pedal = half speed, 3/4 pedal
= 3/4 speed etc.
However, that is *not* the way most car's gas pedals work; carmakers rig
them to be NON-linear; they have a very strong response when you barely
depress the pedal (to give you the illusion of a "powerful" engine); 1/4
pedal = half speed, 1/2 pedal = 3/4 speed, and there's hardly any
difference at all between 3/4 and full. You can imitate this response in
an EV, but most people don't bother.
I've wondered about that in the past. I find it annoying as when at 3/4
throttle sometimes I really DO want more... ;)
This smooth throttle pedal response (that can be tailored to exactly
match an ICE's gas pedal response) is what attracts most people to PWM
controllers. It's what they are used to, and what they expect.
The other big advantage of a PWM controller is that it can limit motor
current. This limits your accelleration -- but it can also keep an
unskilled driver from overdoing it and burning something up. If you
"floor" a contactor controller from a dead stop, you get a *huge*
current and a *huge* amount of torque. You're thrown back in the seat,
and it takes off like a rocket... until something breaks! The tires
spin, the clutch slips, a fuse blows, a wire melts, or worst of all, a
contactor welds and the motor is stuck FULLY ON!
driver training. although actually, sometimes having that kind of power
available is really nice. Why I liked motorcycles so much -- sometimes
you have to get out of the way and you can. obviously that kind of
current can't be sustained, but in a pinch it's be nice.
In comparison, contactor controllers have discrete steps, like shifting
a transmission. The power is momentarily interrupted, the batteries
switched to produce a different voltage, and the power turned back on.
If the steps are small enough, the change in torque isn't too large.
Drivers notice, but it isn't too bad. It works best in underpowered
vehicles, where drivers typically use the gas pedal like an on/off
switch anyway!
Contactor controllers work the best with series motors. You can also use
them with shunt motors if you also vary the field current (as described
in my previous post). Contactor controllers don't work well for PM
motors unless you want fixed speeds.
but you can't vary the field strenght with that rheostat, can you? so
you are back to just discrete jumps with no points in between?
thanks for helping out a newbie.
Andrew
--
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
-- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the excellent reply Jim. Thats what the EV club is all about to
share our knowledge. I didn`t think to much this motor. I have already tried a
big GE motor and had nothing but heat probs and brush probs. I thought maybe a
forklift motor might be better sinse they have had years of experience running
and making electric motors. Seems there just AIN`T no short cuts to profection
in electric motors, again thanks for the input. I am sure everyone gained from
your knowledge!!!
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: baldor motor
>
> Hey Rich
>
>
>
> Here's what I like and dislike about Baldor motors. I don't want to get any
> hate mail but I have called them Baldorks for years, hehehehe. Just about
> every thing "design wise" makes them hard for me (harder for you to work on).
> Again I'm not trying to rag about them but I'd rather you have an informed
> base before you proceed. Here are some of the things that I find
> un-appealing. First as I noted they have a small brush, with small shunt
> leads. Most if you look you should see this is that they have this huge
> bronze side to the brush holder. They then attach this very thin brass hoop
> that in most cases does not even tie to the other side of the holder edge.
> This holder is so fail that if you pull the brush out and allow the spring to
> hit it, the spring will tweak the holder out of shape. The fields are stator
> wound (more like AC) and are not formed coil. If you get a short or a ground
> in your fields they will have to be rewound. As for formed coil motors I (or
> you!
) !
> could
> loosen the bolts, remove the coil and patch the insulation for a much more
> inexpensive repair. Many Baldor motors have cables running out from the
> guts, which again makes it hard to fish these out (if they run through the CE
> plate) to do a simple bearing change. These are just rules of thumb from
> what I've seen and may not all apply to your motor. Comparing the same frame
> size of the 6.7 Prestolite and GE's I find that the commentation abilities of
> the Balder fall way short.
>
>
>
> Lets take a motor I am repairing for Mark Mongillo as an example. He has a
> 36 / 48 volt 7 ¼ " Prestolite #MTA-4001 and it is a compound wound motor (2
> shunt coils and 2 strap or main coils) which I thought I read here couldn't
> be used, hmmm.
>
>
>
> The brush surface area has 8 brushes with around 1" X 5/8" each, with dual
> approx. # 10 shunt leads. Compare that to yours to see what your motor is
> sporting. Next he is using this motor to run a 1959 Fiat, (at 120 volts)
> which is a pretty small car. Even with a bigger motor than the one you have
> he is infamous for running his motor at a very hot temp. His brush shunts
> tend to sit just under the verge of cooking. He has 2 of these motors and in
> fact has been using them (stealing parts as needed from the 2nd) for over 5
> years now though.
>
>
>
> As to the plus side, you will be able to adjust the brush ring for the best
> (least arc) timing. Just loosen the screws from the end of the CE plate and
> adjust as needed to remove arc and to set to lowest amps when under load.
> They are a very smooth running motor that is I believe very efficient. I
> would myself opt for another motor of a larger size for a full size
> conversion. That motor as someone posted would make a really nice smaller
> conversion drive motor. Hope this helps, as I would hate to see you put time
> and money into something that either would burn up or end up with poor
> abilities.
>
>
>
> Jim Husted
>
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> Rich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Jim
> The Baldor Motor is 10 inches long and 6.5 inches wide with a 7/8 16 spline
> shaft. Thanks for the reply..
> Rich
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Husted"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 2:10 AM
> Subject: Re: baldor motor
>
>
>> Baldors seem to me to have small brushes compaired to ADC and Prestolites
>> designs. I've always found the parts harder to find with a bit more bite on
>> costs. On a pro side it should have a variable time brush ring built in. My
>> feeling is you might have brush issues. What size, diameter is this?
>>
>> Jim Husted
>> Hi-Torque Electric
>>
>> Rich wrote:
>> what do you folks think a baldor forklift 2 HP 36 volt 53 amp 2800 rpm motor
>> would do in a volkswagen beetle with gears?
>> Rich
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Yahoo! for Good
>> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just my own preference, but I don't like ANY of the high voltage parts to be
inside the passenger compartment. Too easy to hurt myself.
Me, I'm re-laying out the little Fiat I bought - I've added a 'modern'
controller (a Curtis) and a few other niceties, and I'm trying to arrange it
all on a shelf that runs over the motor and batteries. I also am fitting a
plexiglass cover that will let me have the hood open to show off the working
parts, but will STILL keep little fingers from trying to touch the dangerous
parts.
By the way - my controller is currently mounted to a big thick aluminum plate -
it acts to help sink away some of the heat.
Kevin
--- Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here are some questions that I havnt been able to track down answers to.
>
> My Warp will be here on monday i believe according to Ryan , and i have
> alot of the stuff coming in each week.
>
> Here is my question....
>
> My 1997 Chevy S10 - I live in northern maine where the climate can
> change in a instant from zero degrees to rain and snow...
>
> When i look at some of the pics on evalbum i notice that everyone takes
> great care to mount alot of the electrical items under the hood. What
> are people mounting the controllers, DC DC on top of etc? Are you folks
> putting some kind of painted wood or metal across the inside of the
> engine bay and bolting the parts onto it ?
>
> Also, is there anyone who bolts the DC DC, Controller, etc inside the
> truck possibly behind the seat ?
>
> Also what do you guys do for weather protection? Its obvious that that
> I dont want water, snow, dirt up in and around the warp or the
> electrical parts. And at the same time i need to consider the cooling
> needed. I have purchased an electric blow motor for the warp but often
> times i see people mentioning putting parts where there is cool air
> coming thru.
>
> CWarman
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion wrote:
> Sorry it doesn't list numbers, but some of the drag skinnies (front
> tires on a drag race car) claim to be low rolling resistance.
> http://www.jegs.com. If nothing else, you know they are narrow! These
> would also give secondary benefits of reducing rotating mass, and a
> little bit less frontal area for aero drag.
The Ford model T had low rolling resistance tires. They were 3" x 30" in
front and 3.5" x 30" in the rear, and ran at 75 psi! They obviously
worked for a car that weighed around 1300-1500 lbs.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
thanks for the link!
Hard to believe he is asking $9500 for this car
considering my cost.
It's even more amusing that he is using a digital
picture I took in my driveway!
Rod
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > Hard to believe this 1984 Fiero bought from a
> > Lexington , KY auction made it's way to CA. Who
> knows
> > where it is now!!
> > Rod
>
> http://www.zapworld.com/cars/salecars.asp
>
> Looks like your's is 5th down on the page. My VW
> bug is 12th down. These
> guys really mark up the stock. Stuff doesn't move
> very fast. Wonder how
> they make money? Lawrence Rhodes............
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger asked:
> What is the rationale for this rule?
(This is regarding the "one record per vehicle per event" rule discussed
previously.)
There are several reasons for this rule. Perhaps the foremost is
administrative. If a vehicle runs several times down the track during a
given race event, each run being under a different class/division, then
it becomes an administrative nightmare at the end of the race to figure
out which timeslip goes with which registration. Also, if a vehicle
wants to re-register in a different class/division, a new tech
inspection might be necessary to determine whether the vehicle can race
in the new class/division. For example, a vehicle that races in MC that
later wants to race in SC might need to be re-teched.
I don't know whether you've been to a NEDRA race, and each is slightly
different, but at each of the ones I've been to, the NEDRA board members
and/or race coordinators are spending most of their time running around
organizing things, announcing, making sure the racers are lining up,
taking care of charging or generator issues, answering questions about
membership or t-shirt sales, or whatever. In short, they are very busy
and almost always on the run. To now expect them to stop what they're
doing and re-tech a car or somehow note that "car X that was previously
running in class Y and division Z is now running in class V and division
W" is an extra burden. Such changes in class/division must be
documented, or else we'll get complaints after the race: "But this time
was when I was running in this class/division, and that time was when I
was running in this other class/division. I told you. Don't you
remember?" NEDRA (I think) has done a very good job keeping accurate
records of events. There may be a few typos/mistakes, but they are
caught soon after the event. Adding the complexity of one vehicle
running in multiple classes and/or divisions in a single event is a
whole can of worms we'd rather not open at this time.
There are other reasons, too, though maybe not as compelling. When
NEDRA formed, there were only a handful of racers. Most were
"pre-amateurs". These are people (like me) who have daily commuter EVs
that wanted to go out to the track and see how we did. For me, there
was excitement to think that I could set a record in my pokey Rabbit.
NEDRA wanted to encourage even daily drivers to come out, and the lure
was that they could set a record, even if it was short-lived. What we
didn't want was someone more serious with a killer car (something like
John Wayland's car, not that he would do this), coming in and setting
records up and down the board by adding/removing batteries and switching
among all the classes he may be eligible for. That would've filled the
record page with records unreachable by 99% of EVers, thus discouraging
them from coming out. As it is now, there are still gaps in the records
where none have yet been set for a given voltage/division, so a NEDRA
record is still accessible to some who want badly enough to get one.
Slightly along those lines, at many of the first NEDRA races, we gave
cash prizes for each record set at a given race. Something like $25 per
record. Again, if someone were allowed to change classes/divisions many
times during the race, a vehicle could set numerous records, which
would've wiped out our fledgling bank account.
I think what NEDRA is trying to encourage is not the setting of multiple
records in multiple classes/divisions, but multiple records in the same
class/division, as Victor mentioned earlier. If your time improves
during the course of a race, wouldn't it be better if you stuck to one
class/division and set your best time there, rather than having having
your runs spread across classes/divisions? NEDRA thinks so, though
you're welcome to disagree.
I personally don't know how local tracks work--whether they let you
re-register and run in different classes or not. Even if they did, I'm
not aware of any instance in which someone submitted timeslips to NEDRA
from the same day claiming they ran in different classes/divisions in
different runs. If that were to happen, I doubt we would allow both
records--citing the rule above. If it's not allowed at a NEDRA event, I
don't know why it would be allowed at a non-NEDRA event.
Of course, rules/restrictions like this can be changed. In the case of
the higher-voltage-division proposed rule, it was something the NEDRA
board hadn't really considered until it was brought up at a race (over 5
years after NEDRA's inception!). There was a compelling argument to
change the voltage division rule, and that is what is being considered
now. Over the years, NEDRA has heard a few people questioning the
1-record-per-race-per-vehicle rule, but hasn't really heard (in my
opinion) good compelling arguments as to why to get rid of it, at least
not compelling enough to overcome the reasons behind the rule discussed
above. If such compelling arguments are made, I'm sure the NEDRA board
would revisit the rule. That's what helps it improve as an
organization.
I hope this helps.
Dean Grannes
NEDRA board member
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Victor asked:
>> Grannes, Dean writes:
>>...
>>Thus, each vehicle still
>>can only set at most one record per event.
You mean set record(s) at most in one class (not
one record per event)?
A vehicle sure can set multiple records per event
by beating its own record runs several times during the day.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
To answer your question, a vehicle can set record(s) in at most one
class and one division--the one that it registered under at the
beginning of the race.
Of course, during a race, the record can be broken, and then this new
one broken, etc. with each successive run down the track if the
vehicle's times keep improving throughout the day. But at the end of
the race, this vehicle has really changed only one record (if you look
at the records at the beginning of the race vs. at the end of the race).
The above is true both under the current rules and under the proposed
change.
Dean Grannes
NEDRA board member
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Art-- interesting idea. But add emissions criteria. It doesn't have to
be zero, but...
arthur marquardt wrote:
"Jim Husted" Wrote.
Hey Bill, and all
There has been much talk as to the EV vs. ICE abilities. This has got me
thinking that an EV vs. ICE build off would be a challenging and educational
process to both parties, as well as to the general public. Give each groups
a budget. Let them choose their own make and model, but the cars start off
stripped of all existing parts, including wiring. If they want a gas tank
they will need to install one, as we would have to install battery boxes,
etc. Use a series of tests to compare the two, buck for buck, in speed,
stopping, handling, etc. Do you think Monster Garage, Discovery, etc. would
be interested in such a real world comparison? Would in fact any of you be
interested in such an event?? For an unfair advantage we could insist they
make their own gas, at the very least make them take the costs from their
budgets, hehehe. I could see this as a tool to educate a great many people
as to where EV's are at here in the present.
I think this is a splendid Idea so many builds on Monster Garage, as
admitted by Jesse James, have no point. This would truly be a "discovery"
for the Discovery Channel viewers.
Art
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Anyone know how contactor ratings work for overvoltage? I was thinking that
I could tap half the traction pack for one contactor and half for the other.
My pack is 35 TS cells, 126V nominal, 148V when fully charged, 100V when
discharged.
If half the fully charged voltage would be too much for the coil to handle,
I suppose I could just put a resistor in series with the coil. It seems
like the coils are drawing only around 1/3 amp. A 47-Ohm resister would
keep the Voltage across the coil between 56V and 37V, and waste less than
5W.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Barnes
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 6:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Albright SW200A Contactors $50 <Now $35>
All:
This is what I have learned about the Albright contactors.
(thanks to Steve Muskarelli for getting this info from Curtis!)
Curtis/Albright Model # SW200A-678
>Type: SW200A 56vdc CW 678-(Exclusively for Lucent Technologies) Coil
>Voltage: 56 V Continuous DC Coil Resistance: (Ohms) 182
>Pull In Voltage: 37 V Max.
>Drop Out Voltage: 15 V Max.
>Coil Power Dissipation: 17.23 Watts
>Additional Features:
>
>DIODE ON COIL, POSITIVE AT BOTTOM
>LUCENT PART NO: 407903244
Link to photo 1: http://home.comcast.net/~barnes.rick/Albright1.jpg
Link to photo 2: http://home.comcast.net/~barnes.rick/Albright2.jpg
The seller will lower the price for a bulk purchase. Please respond off list
if you are interested in these for $35 each plus shipping, and I will make
the purchase and distribute. Please include this info:
- quantity wanted
- shipping address
- preferred shipper
- how you would like to pay (PayPal preferred)
Rick Barnes
Aloha, OR 97006
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 6:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
John:
I am confirming with the seller the coil voltage. It may be 56V not 12V. I
will let you know what I hear.
Rick
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--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab writes:
>
> I originally thought that with my 25 orbital pack and a zilla 1K I would
> use 2/0 cable for the battery side of things and 2 runs of 2/0 for the
> motor side. At the moment the 2 runs of 2/0 seems imposible and a
> waste of time.
My car has 12 pairs of Optimas (156v pack) and a Zilla Z1K. I used 2/0
for the battery cables and 4/0 for the motor cables.
With 25 batteries I assume you have a 300v pack. If so, you might be
able to use 1/0 for the battery cables.
> Does a single run of 4/0 take less room and do they make crimp
> connectors for 4/0 with 5/16 holes?
Yes, it takes less room.
I bought 4/0 lugs with 5/16 holes from evparts.com
Ralph
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First, thanks to everyone for all the great ideas! I'm no machinist, so
it really helps. This list is a great resource.
David Chapman wrote:
> I am also assuming that at the most Lee has access to a decent drill
> press and vice.
Correct. Vice, drill press, table saw, jig saw; everything else are
handheld power tools, or basic hand tools.
> Hmm, Lee considering how much you do with the BEST program
> and other mentoring I wonder if there is not an untapped
> resource for you, IE: a high school machine shop?
BEST only goes into elementary schools, and they don't have shops. Heck
even many high schools don't have shops any more (budget cuts, lawsuit
worries). But I can ask!
> milling out the pathways and gluing/bolting the heatsink together?
Could be; but this seems leak-prone. Basically, I'm building a DC/DC
converter with half a dozen Vicor (clone) modules. I need to screw them
to the cold plate, and the easiest way to do this is with tapped
thru-holes. If I have to machine passageways and put a cover on it, I
either have to drill and tap blind holes, or every screw hole becomes a
potential leak.
> BTW, I assume air to air isn't good enough?
It could be air-cooled; but the customer wants water-cooled. No fans,
and it makes it smaller, too.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Mill a u shaped slot and press/lay in a piece of copper tubing.
> Where it sticks out the end, put on compression fittings. Then
> fill with epoxy.
Yes, this is my Plan B. I can saw a slot in the edges of the aluminum
plate with my table saw and a carbide blade. With a few passes, I can
make a wide enough slot on 3 edges to press aluminum or copper tubing
into.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On a related note: I have a 8" x 12" x 1/2" slab of aluminum that I
would like to use as a water-cooled heatsink. If I could drill a few
holes in it edgewise, I could make a "U" shaped path inside it, and
thread the ends for fittings (and a plug for the 3rd hole that connects
the ends of the first two.
Trouble is, a normal long twist drill bit wanders too much. I think it
would break out the side before I could drill that deep.
Turns out that I have done this and now have it done quite often.
With aluminum you have it easy. We do it in copper on all the Zillas.
That can be quite a pain since copper is very gummy. I drill a bit
over 6" deep with a .328" drill in a .500 plate. Clearly it can't
wander very much.
It is of course important to have the axis nice and straight and to
start the hole with a centerdrill and then short stiff bit. I use a
mill as a drill press, but a well aligned drill press should work
just as well. The start of the hole must be straight for the deep
part to work. We use a split point 11" bit and grind the flutes down
.010" after the first inch to reduce friction. Pecking to clear chips
is very important. One bit usually lasts for more than ten heatsinks
in copper. These are regular HSS bits.
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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--- Begin Message ---
Anybody else seen the issue of flood-damaged vehicles filling used car
lots everywhere as undisclosed lemons and though, "Wow, look at all
those vehicles with soaked computers that are ripe for EV conversion?"
Danny
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--- Begin Message ---
This is great to see the internet is leading to a capitalism of
information -- you don't have to beg some producer to get your show
out!
An unsolicited suggestion: What about being shorter than an hour, or
at least letting each segment (news vs. new products vs. events, for
instance) be separately downloadable.
--- Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It must be an idea who's time has come. I too am producing and EV
> focused podcast that will air in a week or two. Our format is a
> weekly,
> hour long program that covers news, new products, events,
> commentary,
> and humor.
>
> We just finished getting the studio built and we just finished
> receiving
> the last of our audio gear and are doing test recordings to work
> out the
> accoustic bugs.
>
> I'll post URLs when we go live shortly.
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM - ktrough
> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There was a magazine article author that was trying to make his 1st
gen VW Rabbit go as fast as possible on a race track. To his chagrin,
his car was slower on the wider tires, and would go faster on the
narrower stock tires. He surmised the car just didn't have enough
power to overcome the additional rolling resistance of the wider
tires.
There was a Corvette on the Salt Flats that switched from wide tires
to narrow tires, and the 1 mile speed improved from 128 mph to 139
mph.
Does a wider tire really "deflect less"? It may not sink down as
much, but there are more inches of width that are being bent.
--- Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> As far as the benefit of a narrower tire, there just doesn't seem
> to be any
> testing, one way or the other, that looks at rolling resistance vs
> tire
> width.
>
> I think wider tires would have lower RR - based on the fact that
> narrow
> tires deflect more (vertically) for the same load at the same tire
> pressure
> than wider tires. But, it's just an untested idea.
>
> Some people seem to think that wider tires mean higher RR ( I'm not
> sure why
> they think that way) .
>
> But, nobody seems to have done any real comparative testing, so we
> just
> don't know.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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