EV Digest 4732
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: An EV podcast
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: INstall Avcon Plug or get the adapter?
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: NEDRA Records for 2005
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Front wheel vs rear wheel drive
by Bill Klingbeil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: LRR Tires Continued
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: LRR Tires Continued
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: vacuum pump
by "John Bisby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Reversing spring/shocks question.
by "stu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Reversing spring/shocks question.
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Tributes
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Plasma Cutter
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Reversing spring/shocks question.
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) EV Album and EV Tradin' Post
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Valence prices, availability, questions
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Plasma Cutter
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: An EV podcast
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Challenges was voltage = speed?
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: EV Album and EV Tradin' Post
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Griffon EV AKA - Bedford CF
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) LRR Tires Continued
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) LRR Tires Continued
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Eliminating Chronic Battery Box Odors
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Recommendations sought for AGM make & models
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) More stupid newby questions
by Kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: electric motorcycle performance
by georgeshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Recommendations sought for AGM make & models
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Challenges was voltage = speed?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) VOLUNTEERS NEEDED FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLE DISPLAY
by "Ralph Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Highway capable conversion on a budget?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
An unsolicited suggestion: What about being shorter than an hour, or
at least letting each segment (news vs. new products vs. events, for
instance) be separately downloadable.
That's something I'll defintely consider carefully. If the concern is
slow download times from the server, don't worry about that. I'll be
working with a podcast host with blazingly fast servers, full index
searching, and full archival support for on-demand streaming or
downloading of the feed via huge data pipes. This service provider hosts
some of the biggest podcasts on the net, so the traffic for my show
should be easy for them to handle.
It is my intent to have very good production quality and I have invested
some significant coinage in professional studio hardware, software and
infrastructure in order to accomplish this goal. While I hope to have
good support within the EV community, I want the programming to be
attractive to non-EVers as well in order to bring new people into the EV
community.
If anyone has anything specific of interest that they would like to get
into the podcast, please contact me via email and we can arrange a data
transfer or interview.
Thanks for the suggestion, and keep them coming!
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the reply. How much did that run you? The adapter EAA sells is $255.
Subject: RE: "Install Avcon Plug or get the adapter?"
To: EV-List-Post <[email protected]>
I bought the Avcon inlet port "with Pilot" from
http://www.avconev.com/ The with pilot option has
the electronics to tell the Avcon box to turn on and
supply power. Apparently the Avcon inlets can be
configured to tell the Avcon what the car is looking
for as far as charging goes.
I will eventually mount the inlet on the truck and
wire it all in, for now I put a female 220 socket on
the other end and a male 20 plug on my PFC charger. I
also made a 4" 220 to 120 adapter for the PFC charger
side of things. I can now charge with the Avon, from
220 or from 110.
TiM
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dean summarized the rule very well.
I would like to add that safety is another concern.
In the excitement of swapping batteries in and out to up the voltage
and make a few extra runs racers can easily overlook safety issues or
not pay attention. I've seen people get shocked and cars short out from
this happening. If people get seriously injured or killed at one of our
events it would cast a black eye on the EV movement so safety has to be
paramount.
If the rule was to change to allow people to change voltages the cars
would need to be engineered before the race to have additional spaces
for batteries.
As Dean noted, it can get real hectic during race day keeping track of
everything and it becomes overwhelming. So keeping track of additional
voltage class changes can get monotonous.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
From: "Grannes, Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:29:27 PM US/Eastern
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: NEDRA Records for 2005
Roger asked:
What is the rationale for this rule?
(This is regarding the "one record per vehicle per event" rule discussed
previously.)
There are several reasons for this rule. Perhaps the foremost is
administrative. If a vehicle runs several times down the track during a
given race event, each run being under a different class/division, then
it becomes an administrative nightmare at the end of the race to figure
out which timeslip goes with which registration. Also, if a vehicle
wants to re-register in a different class/division, a new tech
inspection might be necessary to determine whether the vehicle can race
in the new class/division. For example, a vehicle that races in MC that
later wants to race in SC might need to be re-teched.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey y'all, I've been on the list for a couple of weeks now and really enjoy the
information being put out there. Got to be honest though - a lot of it goes
right over my head! :-)
I'm really just getting started learning about ev conversions, so I've got a
few low-tech questions I'd appreciate some info on. First of all, is there an
advantage to either front wheel drive or rear wheel drive cars when it comes to
conversions? I'm curious about whether one or the other is more efficient when
it comes to converting battery juice to range and speed, or maybe one or the
other is just much simpler to convert.
Bill in Dallas
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David and All,
I'd bet the difference was air drag, not rolling drag.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There was a magazine article author that was trying to make his 1st
gen VW Rabbit go as fast as possible on a race track. To his chagrin,
his car was slower on the wider tires, and would go faster on the
narrower stock tires. He surmised the car just didn't have enough
power to overcome the additional rolling resistance of the wider
tires.
There was a Corvette on the Salt Flats that switched from wide tires
to narrow tires, and the 1 mile speed improved from 128 mph to 139
mph.
Does a wider tire really "deflect less"? It may not sink down as
much, but there are more inches of width that are being bent.
--- Phil Marino
wrote:
> ...
> As far as the benefit of a narrower tire, there just doesn't seem
> to be any
> testing, one way or the other, that looks at rolling resistance vs
> tire
> width.
>
> I think wider tires would have lower RR - based on the fact that
> narrow
> tires deflect more (vertically) for the same load at the same tire
> pressure
> than wider tires. But, it's just an untested idea.
>
> Some people seem to think that wider tires mean higher RR ( I'm not
> sure why
> they think that way) .
>
> But, nobody seems to have done any real comparative testing, so we
> just
> don't know.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Its depends on how much weight you have on a wide tire to provide the PSI
contact pressure to the ground.
In my sports car, which was converted from a CAM AM race car, which is now only
a show car, has 14 inch wide tires on the rear that has 90 percent of the
weight of the car on this rear driving wheels.
The front tires are 12 inches wide and have only 10 percent of the weight of
the car.
The tires are a rain tire where the rear tires have large smooth contact areas
with very few small grooves. This allow for a 70 square inches of contact area
to the ground. This gave about 20 lbs per square inch on a contact area of 14
inches by 5 inches long.
The front tires have very wide lug spacing with large grooves, that have only
16 inches of contact area to the ground. This gave also 20 lbs per square
inch, so the car is balance in tire contact pressure.
This gives the tires a high adhesive of contact and will be a higher resistance
to cornering where all four tires PSI to the road surface will be equal.
Now, it you put wide tires of a standard car, that has only 30 to 40 percent of
the weight of the car on the driving tires. The foot print would be reduce to
about 14 inches wide to about 2 inches long giving only 28 square inches of
contact area which would have less resistance to deflection of 2 inches.
You put on standard tire, that is design for the car at the correct PSI air
pressure that has about 40 percent on the driving wheels, you could have a foot
print of about 8 by 6 inches on a 8 inch wide tire. Or a 6 by 8 inches on a 6
inch wide tire.
A tire that is 3 inches wide using the same PSI air pressure and apply the same
weight as you would in a 14 inches wide would have a very long foot print, so
long that it could flatten the tire down to the rim. You then decrease this
foot print length or call the deflection of the tire by increasing the air
pressure.
The problem here, is that you could lose your adhesive of traction when
cornering. This type of tire is ok for straight line driving for decreasing
the frontal area.
Roland
The contact area will be the same with the same PSI tire pressure to the
driving surface air up to the same deflection rate.
----- Original Message -----
From: jerry dycus<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 6:41 AM
Subject: RE: LRR Tires Continued
Hi David and All,
I'd bet the difference was air drag, not rolling drag.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
There was a magazine article author that was trying to make his 1st
gen VW Rabbit go as fast as possible on a race track. To his chagrin,
his car was slower on the wider tires, and would go faster on the
narrower stock tires. He surmised the car just didn't have enough
power to overcome the additional rolling resistance of the wider
tires.
There was a Corvette on the Salt Flats that switched from wide tires
to narrow tires, and the 1 mile speed improved from 128 mph to 139
mph.
Does a wider tire really "deflect less"? It may not sink down as
much, but there are more inches of width that are being bent.
--- Phil Marino
wrote:
> ...
> As far as the benefit of a narrower tire, there just doesn't seem
> to be any
> testing, one way or the other, that looks at rolling resistance vs
> tire
> width.
>
> I think wider tires would have lower RR - based on the fact that
> narrow
> tires deflect more (vertically) for the same load at the same tire
> pressure
> than wider tires. But, it's just an untested idea.
>
> Some people seem to think that wider tires mean higher RR ( I'm not
> sure why
> they think that way) .
>
> But, nobody seems to have done any real comparative testing, so we
> just
> don't know.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
>Has any one used any of the Mercedes electrical vacuum pumps?
I posted a message some years ago regards these pumps.
Maybe you can find it in the archives.
There are two basic types of pumps Mercedes use. One is a diaphragm type used
for central locking which are prone to diaphragm rupture and the other is a
self lubing rotary vane unit which is used to fully close the doors if you
don't close them properly first time. The later of these two is the one you
want.
My own EV conversion has been using one without fault for 7 years - 64,000km.
The original application for these pumps is demanding. The main reason they are
replaced is because they cannot pump to the specified pressure. At the end of
each pressure cycle they go into vacuum mode to remove any moisture that may
have entered the system.
They make an excellent vacuum pump for an EV. They do not need to be operated
at full power for our application. I run mine at half power by using a simple
NE555 switch mode circuit with an inductor and freewheel diode. Pumps down to
25" mercury. Operates for about 10-20 seconds per brake application. The pump
is barely audible even in a low ambient noise environment. You will require a
vacuum tank (as used for vacuum assisted trailer brakes), one way valve and a
low pressure switch. If you want I can email the schematic of the circuit (bit
map image).
John Bisby
Perth, Western Australia
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can see a need to have the suspension springs and shocks expanding rather
that compressing when an outrigger wheel hits a bump.
Is there a simple way one could 'fix' coil spring ends to create an
expansion spring?
Are regular shock absorbers able to absorb on the 'in' stroke?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 18 Sep 2005 at 11:58, stu wrote:
> I can see a need to have the suspension springs and shocks expanding
> rather that compressing when an outrigger wheel hits a bump.
Why?
>
> Is there a simple way one could 'fix' coil spring ends to create an
> expansion spring?
Sure, anchor the bottom of the spring to an internal rod and have a sleeve
push up on the top of the spring.
>
> Are regular shock absorbers able to absorb on the 'in' stroke?
They damp in both directions. But I still don't see the point.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
I wholeheartedly agree, and think Lee should get some kind of an award for
putting up with us!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 07:14:00 -0700
>From: Bryan B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Hi All,
>While my reasoning to be on this list is to glean information and
>insight in the school of EV conversion, for many years I've been on and
>off this list and Lee has always been there to offer a helping hand
>(well, cyberhand?) Lee, I would like to say Thanks, for the time you
>give to see that most any question posted on the list gets a reply from
>you. That alone is allot of time and effort to do. So while life is
>still happening, and even though I don't personally know you, Thanks Lee
>for your diligence in keeping EVeryone here moving electrically forward.
>Thanks too for the many unnamed who do the same. Without this list, it's
>much harder to get things moving safely the first time around.
>Bryan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
It also depends on what you're cutting, how warn down your blade is, and
the "angle of attack"! I keep a one inch square piece of tubing around as a
spacer between the stop on the saw and the material I'm cutting, especially
if I'm cutting angle iron. And as the Reverend Gadget mentioned, you don't
want to breath the smoke and dust so I use an exhaust fan when cutting
indoors. I just used the chop saw to cut some 1/4-20 threaded rod (all
thread) while installing the new Orbs in my daughter's RX-7, and it sure is
a handy tool to have, "and remember, if the woman don't find you handsome,
they should at least find you handy" (from the Red Green show on PBS).
Hope this helps,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>From: Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Plasma Cutter
>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:58:26 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:54:25 -0700 (MST), "Peter VanDerWal"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>>I switched to a Dewalt blade and it works ok. Still tends to load up with
>>metal. I think maybe the saw turns to slow or slows down too much when
>>cutting. Doesn't seem to matter how much, or how little, preasure I use
>>when cutting.
>>
>>I suppose it's possible that I'm doing something wrong.
>
>I hate to ask the obvious, but you're not using a masonry blade on
>steel are you? That is the only time I've seen one clog when cutting
>steel. Aluminum takes a special, usually green, wheel.
>
>I have a no-name chop saw that I bought >20 years ago before the
>chinese entered the scene. Other than a flimsy sheet metal base, it
>works like a champ.
>
>BTW, the blades that Northern sells are OK. Not like a Norton but OK.
>
>John
>---
>John De Armond
>See my website for my current email address
>http://www.johngsbbq.com
>Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
Sure, anchor the bottom of the spring to an internal rod and have a sleeve
push up on the top of the spring.
anchor the bottom of the spring to an internal rod - with what?
I don't quit get you word picture. Why the cylinder if both ends of the
spring were fixed; one end to the chassis, the other to the swing arm?
As to why. Imagine the pivot point of a swing arm at the rear bumper. The
rear wheel hits a bump and it goes up. The arm extending beneath the car
goes down. There are 2 shocks/springs that are available. A 'Y' could
connect the swing arm to both spring/shocks.
Just another idea, but I thought that it might be useful.
Thanks for your input.
stU
> I can see a need to have the suspension springs and shocks expanding
> rather that compressing when an outrigger wheel hits a bump.
Why?
>
> Is there a simple way one could 'fix' coil spring ends to create an
> expansion spring?
Sure, anchor the bottom of the spring to an internal rod and have a sleeve
push up on the top of the spring.
>
> Are regular shock absorbers able to absorb on the 'in' stroke?
They damp in both directions. But I still don't see the point.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
I am not sure what this issue is, perhaps something with the server, but
the EV Album and the EV Tradin' Post are both not working properly. The EV
Album is up, but I am locked out and cannot edit it, the EV Tradin' Post
simply errors out.
Please bear with us, hopefully Aaron can get a look at it and will have
things resolved and back on line tomorrow.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is Valence planning on selling these in stores? What will the prices
be like for the 3 different sizes? How about just some wild guesses
if prices are not known? I suggest $25 for the small one, $50 for the
middle one, and $75 for the large one. :)
Will our cars be fast with these batteries? Or is this not a
performance battery?
http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/U-Charge_Datasheet.pdf
Will a lithium battery ever equal an AGM in regards to it's short
circuit discharge rate without damage or will it never happen?
Is this battery for setting range records and not speed records?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
Since I don't wear jewelry (too dangerous) I have liong been consider having
this tatooed on my body. Lol, thought Tom and I were the only EVers that
watched the lord of the duct tape show. I would love to see him build an EV
out of a couple hockey sticks and a vacuum cleaner. David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Plasma Cutter
"and remember, if the woman don't find you handsome,
they should at least find you handy" (from the Red Green show on PBS).
Hope this helps,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Stefano,
On Sep 16, 2005, at 9:30 PM, Stefano Landi wrote:
I decided to do my own little EV
broadcasting.
Excellent!
My own podcasts can be found at the following site.
http://podcast.slandi.net
or you can download it directly at
http://www.slandi.net/podcast/SPEVseriesPart1.mp3
I was able to get iTunes to recognize your podcast using the XML URL
published on your website.
For those who want to use iTunes, pull down the Advanced menu and
choose Subscribe to Podcast... Then type in this URL:
http://www.slandi.net/podcast/Sigmapodcasts.xml
regards,
Stefano
http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
I look forward to my next car trip where I will listen to your podcast.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I tried that with monster garage. I propsed converting
a car to electric and racing it against it's ice
brother. I also proposed building an electric rock
crawler and doing the same. Monster garage is about
fuel, fire and noise. With a large helping of
testosterone. so keep the ideas coming. I'm in the
pitch process right now for a new show. all the
episodes will be about energy alternatives
Gadget
> >>Hey Bill, and all
> >>
> >>
> >>There has been much talk as to the EV vs. ICE
> abilities. This has got me
> >
> > thinking that an EV vs. ICE build off would be a
> challenging and educational
> > process to both parties, as well as to the general
> public. Give each groups
> > a budget. Let them choose their own make and
> model, but the cars start off
> > stripped of all existing parts, including wiring.
> If they want a gas tank
> > they will need to install one, as we would have to
> install battery boxes,
> > etc. Use a series of tests to compare the two,
> buck for buck, in speed,
> > stopping, handling, etc. Do you think Monster
> Garage, Discovery, etc. would
> > be interested in such a real world comparison?
> Would in fact any of you be
> > interested in such an event?? For an unfair
> advantage we could insist they
> > make their own gas, at the very least make them
> take the costs from their
> > budgets, hehehe. I could see this as a tool to
> educate a great many people
> > as to where EV's are at here in the present.
> >
> > I think this is a splendid Idea so many builds on
> Monster Garage, as
> > admitted by Jesse James, have no point. This would
> truly be a "discovery"
> > for the Discovery Channel viewers.
> >
> > Art
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thank you Mike.
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [Original Message]
> From: Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 9/18/2005 1:14:54 PM
> Subject: EV Album and EV Tradin' Post
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I am not sure what this issue is, perhaps something with the server, but
> the EV Album and the EV Tradin' Post are both not working properly. The
EV
> Album is up, but I am locked out and cannot edit it, the EV Tradin' Post
> simply errors out.
>
> Please bear with us, hopefully Aaron can get a look at it and will have
> things resolved and back on line tomorrow.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well after considering a Porsche 924 to convert and the deal on the glider
all falling through I have just negotiated the purchase of an old Griffon GM
(Badged a Bedford CF in UK) .
I am hoping that this will teach me about battery care and allow me to do
some work refurbishing it before I do a whole conversion.
Is anyone else out there running a one of these GM vans ? Would very much
like to hear of others experiences. I would like to be able to get a
Technical description of the motor control and a circuit diagram but they
are a bit long in the tooth now.
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My empirical experience with tires is as follows. The
more the sidewalls flex the more resistance to
rolling. my truck has 6 tires, the front ones are
close to their load rating and it takes everything I
have to push it. I built a huge land sailer once that
weighed about 8,000 lbs and it sat on 10 tires. it had
a well distributed load with no tire pushed past 20%
of it's load rating. There was no discernible flexing
of the side walls. it rolled so easily that I had to
chock the tires on flat ground or it would roll if you
leaned on it. eight of the tires were very skinny and
two were really fat. (12 inches wide) However, when
talking about high speed the skinny tire starts to
have the advantage. On those dragster tires the
profile cross section is nearly round. It presents a
more aerodynamic front. Also the top of the tire is
moving forward at twice the speed of the bottom, so a
wider tire would produce more drag.
So the question is, How fast do want to go? What
kind of driving will you do?
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My empirical experience with tires is as follows. The
more the sidewalls flex the more resistance to
rolling. my truck has 6 tires, the front ones are
close to their load rating and it takes everything I
have to push it. I built a huge land sailer once that
weighed about 8,000 lbs and it sat on 10 tires. it had
a well distributed load with no tire pushed past 20%
of it's load rating. There was no discernible flexing
of the side walls. it rolled so easily that I had to
chock the tires on flat ground or it would roll if you
leaned on it. eight of the tires were very skinny and
two were really fat. (12 inches wide) However, when
talking about high speed the skinny tire starts to
have the advantage. On those dragster tires the
profile cross section is nearly round. It presents a
more aerodynamic front. Also the top of the tire is
moving forward at twice the speed of the bottom, so a
wider tire would produce more drag.
So the question is, How fast do want to go? What
kind of driving will you do?
Gadget
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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"It sounds like you're overcharging, and may be reversing some cells on
discharge. A slight acid tang isn't unusual at finish, but odors during
discharge are usually bad news."
I didn't mean that my batts were misting, not that I know of anyway. I don't
think overcharging is occuring as charging stops at pack voltage of 114-116v
or avg. 2.38-2.42v per cell and batts seem pretty equal.
Don't vapors/odors come with the territory as far as flooded batts,
but not AGMs so long as the AGMs are properly charged? Don't flooded batts vent
as a normal part of the charge/discharge cycle?
Mark Freidberg
On 15 Sep 2005 at 14:58, Mark Freidberg wrote:
> So is it normal for flooded
> batteries to persistenly give off odors, but to release sulfuric acid mist
> only
> during charging past 80% s.o.c. and under heavy discharge?
It sounds like you're overcharging, and may be reversing some cells on
discharge. A slight acid tang isn't unusual at finish, but odors during
discharge are usually bad news.
> I'd like to replace the flooded batteries with AGMs.
That won't fix the problem. It may not even fix the symptom.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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There are 16 Trojan T105s in my Jet Electra Van's battery box. The box is
basically made for that size battery.
Anyway, I'd like to replace the T105s with AGMs. It would be nice to be able to
pop in a same size AGM, even use the existing interconnects.
It looks like Concord Battery makes an AGM that is the same dimensions as the
T105. What experiences have people had with Concorde batteries? What other AGMs
would be a good fit?
Mark Freidberg
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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--- Begin Message ---
Okay, I read the response to "Why can't you connect your series motor in
parallel
(or vice versa) question, and it got me to thinking. In a series motor, do the
field and armature each see 1/2 the nominal voltage? If you connected two
controllers to a series wound motor - one to the armature and one to the field -
would you end up with a motor that was seeing twice the amps or twice the volts?
(Everytime I think I'm starting to get something a question coems up which
makes
me realize that I really don't understand it as well as I thought I did.)
Kluge
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--- Begin Message ---
As to the apparent physics of racing a high performance EV
motorcycle.....current battery technology may lead to a higher
center of gravity (a bad thing
It's actually a good thing if not taken to an extreme. Of course,
there's the FF crowd who will bring out the conspiracy theories
about the FIM paying Elvis to be the second shooter in the grassy
knoll.
LMAO!
-- george (racer in hiatus)
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Does the AGM have the same AMPhour capacity as the T105?
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Freidberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 7:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Recommendations sought for AGM make & models
There are 16 Trojan T105s in my Jet Electra Van's battery box. The box is
basically made for that size battery.
Anyway, I'd like to replace the T105s with AGMs. It would be nice to be able
to pop in a same size AGM, even use the existing interconnects.
It looks like Concord Battery makes an AGM that is the same dimensions as
the T105. What experiences have people had with Concorde batteries? What
other AGMs would be a good fit?
Mark Freidberg
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here one ideal.
Tell them that we can build a EV that does three things, not one wimpy thing.
1. Build the EV to produce 1000 HP (2000 amps x 400
volts).
2. Power the garage as a emergy generator which runs
off the pilot shaft of a Warp 13 motor, AC, or
Brushless type of motors.
3. Run the EV for 1000 miles in 24 hours, using a high
Power PFC charger of 100 amps or more using 300
amp-hour or more cobalt batteries.
My EV back in 1975 call Transformer I did 1024 miles
in 24 hours back in Detroit. So we know that can be
done.
This run across the country is going to be tried again soon. This would be a
great project if monster garage dare to tried. It will be the highest cost
project they will ever will attempt to do.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Reverend Gadget<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: Challenges was voltage = speed?
I tried that with monster garage. I propsed converting
a car to electric and racing it against it's ice
brother. I also proposed building an electric rock
crawler and doing the same. Monster garage is about
fuel, fire and noise. With a large helping of
testosterone. so keep the ideas coming. I'm in the
pitch process right now for a new show. all the
episodes will be about energy alternatives
Gadget
> >>Hey Bill, and all
> >>
> >>
> >>There has been much talk as to the EV vs. ICE
> abilities. This has got me
> >
> > thinking that an EV vs. ICE build off would be a
> challenging and educational
> > process to both parties, as well as to the general
> public. Give each groups
> > a budget. Let them choose their own make and
> model, but the cars start off
> > stripped of all existing parts, including wiring.
> If they want a gas tank
> > they will need to install one, as we would have to
> install battery boxes,
> > etc. Use a series of tests to compare the two,
> buck for buck, in speed,
> > stopping, handling, etc. Do you think Monster
> Garage, Discovery, etc. would
> > be interested in such a real world comparison?
> Would in fact any of you be
> > interested in such an event?? For an unfair
> advantage we could insist they
> > make their own gas, at the very least make them
> take the costs from their
> > budgets, hehehe. I could see this as a tool to
> educate a great many people
> > as to where EV's are at here in the present.
> >
> > I think this is a splendid Idea so many builds on
> Monster Garage, as
> > admitted by Jesse James, have no point. This would
> truly be a "discovery"
> > for the Discovery Channel viewers.
> >
> > Art
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com<http://www.reverendgadget.com/>
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--- Begin Message ---
The EV Challenge needs volunteers to help host its unique mobile classroom
and electric vehicle exhibit at this year’s North Carolina State Fair, Oct.
14-23. Last year over 800,000 people visited the fair. The EV Challenge
program is sponsored by the Carolina Electric Vehicle Coalition, Inc.
(CEVC), based in central North Carolina. If you are able to work a 4 hour
shift at the fair in Raleigh, email Ralph Goodwin, at HYPERLINK
"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED]
HYPERLINK "http://www.evchallenge.org/"www.evchallenge.org
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.1/104 - Release Date: 9/16/2005
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--- Begin Message ---
John Westlund wrote:
> thinking about what Lee Hart has told me last year about how
> my first conversion won't be fast, cheap, and have decent range
> all at once... financial situation... college student... if I
> waited to accumulate the parts to do a $12k conversion, it would
> most likely not happen until after I graduated college.
Exactly right! The Perfect is the enemy of the Good.
Your first EV conversion will never be perfect. Don't try to make it so,
or you will either never start, never finish, or spend a great deal of
time and money for something that it turns out poorly.
KISS = Keep It Small and Simple. Start with an electric bike, or
scooter, or motorcycle, or NEV. If you need a roadworthy car as a
minimum, aim low. Use surplus parts and used parts. Make your own,
learning and making contacts in the process. You'll spend a lot less,
get it done a lot quicker, learn more, and have a *much* higher chance
for success. Best of all, after your first EV you'll have a far better
idea of what's really important for your next one.
> as cheap as possible... 60 mph top speed... no concern at all
> for acceleration... 30 mile range at 50 mph or so to 80% DoD.
> Think this could be done for as little as $3k in EV components?
> How about $2k? Less?
Yes, this is possible. The 30-mile range at 50 mph is tough, because it
means a high percentage of the vehicle's weight is in batteries.
> I have a 1969 Triumph GT6+...
This is hopeful. It can do all you ask if you can cram in enough
batteries. Your weight estimates may prove to be a bit off, but you can
verify them before getting too involved. Weigh the car as-is, weigh the
major parts as you remove them, and see.
> So, lets say I decide to try to do a conversion on a $3,000
> parts budget...
Ok; let's start with the 2350 GVWR. For a shot at your 30 mile range at
50 mph, let's aim for 40% batteries. 0.4 x 2350 lbs = 940 lbs of
batteries and a glider weight of 1410 lbs -- possible if your numbers
are good.
Golf cart batteries are the cheapest, and weigh about 60 lbs each. 940 x
60 = 15.7; call it 16 batteries. 16 x 6v = 96v system. They cost about
$50 each, so you'll spend $800 for batteries.
96v is a good voltage for a "bad boy" charger. You can build your own
out of an old 12v 15amp car battery charger ($50). The charger supplies
the case, transformer, and ammeter. You'll add a bridge rectifier ($5),
mechanical timer ($20), GFCI ($10), 15amp AC circuit breaker ($5), 15amp
output fuse ($2), a fan ($5), and a couple toggle switches for high/low
selection ($4). Total cost is about $100.
These chargers normally consist of a 24vac transformer with a center tap
and two diodes, wired to give 12vdc. Rewire the 24vac transformer
secondary in series with the AC input to buck the 120vac down to 120-24
= 96vac. Rectifying this produces 1.4 x 96vac = 134vdc at 0 amps, or
120vdc at 5amps, which is about right for a 96v pack (2.5v/cell). Your
charging "algorithm" consists of setting the timer to turn the charger
off just as the batteries reach 120vdc at 5amps.
The ADC L91 6.7" motor ($850, 96vdc 150amps 13hp continuous) will
readily reach 60 mph, and be able to maintain that power as long as your
batteries can supply it.
> finding a surplus aircraft starter generator that has a better
> power output and efficiency may allow even faster speed...
The Jack & Heinz 30v 500a aircraft generator I used in my first EV would
match the ADC motor, and is lighter and half the price. However, you'd
have trouble getting the range due to the lower efficiency. You'd also
need a heck of a blower to cool it.
You'll need an adapter plate and coupler. These will run anywhere from
$50 to $500 depending on whether you can make it yourself or buy one.
There are lots of things you can do for a controller. The simplest is
probably to buy a used or rebuilt Curtis 1221 ($500 or so). It will work
for now, and you can resell it later for most of what you paid for it.
Or, build a contactor controller; cheaper, but more work.
You could also take the route you described; a lower-voltage system with
an Alltrax controller. But it may lead to a bit higher cost in the end.
> the first upgrade I would make after its initial completion would
> be some instrumentation.
Yes! You need at least a voltmeter and ammeter even to begin with. An
E-meter or some equivalent is a good next step up.
I'm also leaving out the battery boxes and associated parts. I assume
you'd build these yourself. If you have winters where you live, I'd put
the batteries in closed boxes that you can insulate. Heating is not
really necessary if you drive every day, as the boxes will trap the
waste heat from driving and charging.
> snag a used conversion or an incomplete conversion.
Yes; these are good sources of discount parts.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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