EV Digest 4735
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Question on Solneil dual 36 V chargers
by Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: K&W Chargers
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: K&W Chargers
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) unsubscribe
by "Norman Randall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---Hello all, I did some searches in the archives, but couldn't really find anything concrete. I was wondering what the list thinks of using two 36V Soneil chargers to use as on-board chargers for my 72V Festiva conversion. Here is a link to the PDF spec sheet. The batteries I'm planning on using are US Battery US2200 (220 Ah). http://www.soneil.com/Completesets/3610SRF(Rev04).25-May-05.pdf Please bear in mind that I'm trying to keep my overall cost/weight down, but also trying really hard to maintain good battery conditioning. I think these chargers might fit the bill, but my charging times might be very long. I can using opportunity charging at work, at my friends houses and I don' t mind the longer charging times if it means keeping my batteries in top-notch. thanks for any and all comments. regards, Stefano http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net http://podcast.slandi.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---I need one that can be reset for 156v system. Some I have seen appear capable of this. > > From: "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2005/09/19 Mon AM 08:42:15 EST > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: K&W Chargers > > > I HAVE A( K & W CHARGER )FOR SALE . BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO ASK FOR IT.??? > > Bill & Sharon Hoopes > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Date: 9/19/2005 4:57:37 AM > > Subject: K&W Chargers > > > > Were K&W chargers considered to be good? I don't seem to find a website > for > > them and some used ones are around. > > > > Mark Ward > > St. Charles, MO > > 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina" > > www.saabrina.blogspot.com >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---The model I am referring to specifically is the KW BC-250. Does anyone have any info on this model? Supposedly good up to 200v. Mark Ward St. Charles, MO 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina" www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---How do I unsubscribe?
Thanks and keep up the good work! Norm
From: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Subject: EV digest 4709
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 05:07:18 PDT
>
> EV Digest 4709
>
>Topics covered in this issue include:
>
> 1) Re: PFC Ground and Pack Negative (was RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PF)
> by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 2) Re: Catch the last bus (EV for sale)
> by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 3) Re: What charger to use?
> by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 4) Re: LSD Tripping in my REV
> by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 5) Re: Anybody know this outfit?
> by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 6) Re: Fest-ev-a project update
> by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 7) Re: Fest-ev-a project update
> by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 8) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the modern world.
> by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 9) Re: Fluke Digital Multimeters
> by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 10) Re: Anybody know this outfit?
> by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 11) Re: Anybody know this outfit?
> by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 12) Re: Fest-ev-a project update
> by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 13) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the modern world.
> by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 14) Re: Catch the last bus (EV for sale)
> by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 15) Re: Coax
> by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 16) China Pacific Trading Company
> by "Ralph Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 17) Question about battery connectors (Was: Re: Crimping cables!, getting closer!)
> by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 18) Re: Catch the last bus (EV for sale)
> by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 19) Re: LSD Tripping in my REV
> by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 20) Re: LSD Tripping in my REV (was: More motors -> More speed?)
> by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 21) Re: LSD Tripping in my REV (was: More motors -> More speed?)
> by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 22) Re: LSD Tripping in my REV (was: More motors -> More speed?)
> by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 23) Re: LSD Tripping in my REV (was: More motors -> More speed?)
> by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: PFC Ground and Pack Negative (was RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PF)
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:17:20 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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> charset="iso-8859-1"
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>
>The car chassis needs to be grounded for personnel safety.
>
>The green wire in the line cord is connected to case and the green wire in
>the DC cable.
>
>If the car chassis is not grounded, it can be several hundred volts from
>ground producing a severe shock to someone who touches the car.
>
>Typically, the green wire is used to safety ground the chassis. The red and
>black wires supply the AC voltage whereas the white wire is neutral for any
>120 VAC loads. The white wire and green wire are connected to ground at the
>breaker panel.
>
>The PFC chargers do not have any 120 VAC internal loads and therefore
>operate with the white wire unconnected.
>
>Joe Smalley
>Rural Kitsap County WA
>Fiesta 48 volts
>NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:06 PM
>Subject: Re: PFC Ground and Pack Negative (was RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PF)
>
>
> > Rich,
> > A while back you wrote:
> > > What I want in a leaky enviroment is the charger case insulated from the
>Car
> > > chassis, But VERY solidly plug bonded to AC ground and earth, using
>the
> > > Green wire in the AC Cord feed.
> > > This gives a short circuit path from the charger case to the breaker box
>and
> > > GFI. This gives you safety should the charger have a issue. This is
>basicly
> > > required by common sense if not the law.
> >
> > In the case of a car that was designed with a three wire charging
> > system (240V, two hots and a ground), should I splice the AC cord
> > green wire to the white wire?
> >
> > This is in a flooded EV (leaky environment). The charger is already
> > electrically isolated from the chassis. I'm currently not using the
> > AC cord green wire.
> >
> > Richard Kelly
> >
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Catch the last bus (EV for sale)
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:31:41 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>I saw the seller listed the batteries as "lead acid" but I am wondering if
>this is really accurate? Would have thought it should have had some form of
>Ni-Cad. What was in the one you bought? Although I havnt been to FLA in 25 +
>years I would consider a trip down there to get the thing if it had the
>batts I am looking for. BTW, love your Cross Country on $1.00 a day plan. I
>wanted to do something like this 5 years ago with a S-10 that was sitting at
>Tennessee L&P figured to fly down, buy a genset at Home Depot to throw in
>the back. Just me, a tool bag, my laptop and one of my sons. Drive back
>across country, recharge whenever and wherever we could, post updates to a
>web page and just have an adventure of a life time. Meet lots of interesting
>people and have a lot of neat experiances. Maybe write a book about it. Hope
>YOU get it done before life catches up with you, wish I had the time to go
>along. You get to Phx stop by. Will find some juice for ya! And we got the
>best high octane sunshine in the country. Regards David Chapman.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Meta Bus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 5:08 PM
>Subject: Catch the last bus (EV for sale)
>
>
> > FYI--
> >
> > There is one last hybrid-electric bus going into its last day of auction
> > on eBay--
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4574213708
> >
> > Or if the link is broken, search for "Broward" in eBay Motors.
> >
> > This is the last of eight hybrid-electric buses that were auctioned off
> > by Broward county. I bought mine early, non-operational, and am in the
> > process of bringing it back to life. The current auction is for a bus
> > that actually still runs, per the seller (although it is missing its
> > APU, the Capstone microturbine).
> >
> > These buses were orphaned when the Chattanooga company that made them
> > went out of business (theirs was a sad story of support failure, shoddy
> > production, unrealistic fleet expectations, and reduced emissions
> > standards which made EV fleets less appealing):-(
> >
> > They do have tons of Solectria stuff, with dual AC55's, UMOC445TF
> > controller, 24 Deka GelTech batteries (dead, most likely), DC-DC
> > converter, etc.
> >
> >
> >
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: What charger to use?
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:38:50 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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> charset="iso-8859-1"
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>
>Two other differences between cheap and good chargers are:
>1) how they behave with an undervoltage or shorted battery (trickle,
>regulate or fail) and,
>2) how much current they put out just before the battery hits acceptance
>voltage.
>
>The first item affects reliability and the second affects charge time.
>
>Joe Smalley
>Rural Kitsap County WA
>Fiesta 48 volts
>NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:51 PM
>Subject: Re: What charger to use?
>
>
> >
> > The difference between a cheap stupid charger and a expensive smart one
> > lies in what it does during the last 20% or so of the charge cycle.
> > Almost all consumer product chargers slow down their charging rate as
> > the battery approaches full; but they don't actually measure or regulate
> > just how full the battery really is. The assumption is that the consumer
> > wants the battery "as full as possible", so the charger keeps right on
> > trickling current in until the battery is overflowing.
> >
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:41:27 -0700
>From: Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: LSD Tripping in my REV
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>I've always wanted to do something like that!
>
>So, if you doubled the array size you could charge in 1 day!
>Though about deployable canopies? Need some shade for the
>patio when you're parked anyway, might aswell make them work to.
>Might also add come little wind generators, still "solar" power.
>
>L8r
> Ryan
>
>Meta Bus wrote:
> > Yes, that was a typo/brain fart. I meant 8 amps for 5 hours, or an
> > accumulation of 40ah, into a pack with nominal 100ah (C/20). That means
> > about 2 1/2 sunny days to accumulate enough for a one-hour drive
> > (possible with the MPPT charge controller mentioned by Rush).
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:47:23 -0700
>From: Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Anybody know this outfit?
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Disposition: inline
>
>On Tue, Sep 13, 2005 at 04:53:59PM -0700, Sherry Boschert wrote:
>
><..snip..>
> > Anybody know these folks? I'm skeptical of the claim
> > that they get 125 miles on lead acid batteries. I
> > haven't called him yet.
>
>Yes, this claim seems highly suspect, however not impossible.
>
>Note that they first mention cars that go 25-35 MPH on there landing page.
>
>If you load a full size EV up with lead acid batteries and then limit it to
>25 mph, it seems like you might be able to swing a range like this.
>
>I noted that somebody else indicated that they might be using Thunder Sky
>Liion cells. This seems improbable based on the estimated $450 pack
>replacement.
>
> >From the index page on www.fevehicle.com:
>"Our batteries can run in 2 years. The cost to replace them is about $450.00."
>
>Sounds par for a cheap PbA.
>
>Thanks!
>
> > --- morgan tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > From: "morgan tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Subject: our plug in EV
> > > Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:03:04 -0700
> > >
> > > Sherry:
> > >
> > > got your EVA information from your partners, they
> > > shown a battery car in the downtown last weeken.
> > > introduce ourselfves, we are company in EV
> > > experiment and production years.
>
><..snip..>
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Meta Bus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Fest-ev-a project update
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:35:58 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Looks a lot like an Aspire transmission. I've been told many parts are bolt
>in compatable. LR.........
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Meta Bus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 1:18 PM
>Subject: Re: Fest-ev-a project update
>
>
> > Sparky looks good.
> >
> > When you are done, your web-pages could be an instruction manual for
> > anyone who wanted to follow your lead.
> >
> > Keep up the good work!
> >
> > Stefano Landi wrote:
> >> Hello everyone,
> >>
> >> So what do you get when you decide to tackle an electric conversion of a
> >> Ford Festiva on a shoestring budget with a garage full of household grade
> >> tools? Well tired for one thing, a little frustrated and satisfaction
> >> that I'm slowly accomplishing something special. I really am impressed by
> >> many of the people on this list that have access to machine shops and
> >> have the monetary wherewithall to carry out some of the more expensive
> >> conversions. I'd love to be able to have that kind of money, but in my
> >> case when I set about doing this conversion, the household CEO, aka the
> >> wife, raised an eyebrow and asked me how much this would all cost. I had
> >> to come up with an answer pretty quick and told her a figure of about
> >> $4,500 CDN. So the challenge is on, to convert a Ford Festiva to an
> >> electric vehicle capable of getting me to work and back (18 miles) every
> >> day convincing both my wife and my non-believing friends that it can be
> >> done. As you will see on my site, this conversion is fraught with all
> >> sorts of problems and as it progresses it's almost turning into a
> >> frame-off restore. Believe me I'm loving every minute of it. Just thought
> >> you would all like to see the progress.
> >>
> >> regards,
> >>
> >> Stefano
> >> http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
> >>
> >>
> >
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Fest-ev-a project update
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:44:27 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>I used Audi 4000 springs in the back of the Aspire. I just checked many
>cars for GVW and took out the ones that were heavier and longer. Worked for
>me. I think I used the rear springs from a Nissian 300zx for the front of
>my Aspire. LR......
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 2:34 PM
>Subject: Re: Fest-ev-a project update
>
>
> > On 9/13/05, Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
> >
> > Very good!
> > I had to laugh (sorry) at this bit though:
> >
> > "The photo below shows the area where the current gas tank resides and
> > where the future battery pack will sit. I was very happy to see that this
> > area of the car is very solid and shows little rust damage. This is
> > excellent
> > as this part of the car will be bearing much of the weight of the
> > batteries."
> >
> > Won't you be needing to cut out that one good bit of the car next, in
> > order to get the tall 6v batteries closer to the ground? Just a
> > thought :)
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > EVan
> > http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
> >
>From: Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the modern world.
>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:51:30 -0400
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:15:40 -0400, "David"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> >>Any new energy source MUST follow that route. The existing
> >> distribution infrastructure includes:
> >>
> >> Oil pipelines
> >> natural gas pipelines
> >> distillate pipelines
> >> The natural gas pipelines
> >> The electrical grid.
> >> and on a more-or-less local level, petroleum tankers.
> >>
> >
> >Oops! You forgot the most important one!
> >
> >The sun.
>
>No, I only listed things that are practical.
>
>John
>---
>John De Armond
>See my website for my current email address
>http://www.johngsbbq.com
>Cleveland, Occupied TN
>From: Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Fluke Digital Multimeters
>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:52:49 -0400
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>If you're doing car-type work then the Fluke 88 is hard to beat. Over
>$300 retail, I think. If you can get that puppy for around $100,
>where do I sign up :-)
>
>John
>
>On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:27:03 -0500, Ryan Stotts
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Today at school, the instructor said something about they can get us
> >Fluke meters at a discounted price.
> >
> >He thought but wasn't for sure that maybe it was the "Fluke 77" model
> >for like ~$100.
> >
> >I'm unsure if I'll get one or not, depending on the price and the model.
> >
> >When I find out what price and model, and if all the models are
> >available or not, I'll ask if there is a limit on how many a person
> >can get or not. I'll do that if anyone here wants one at the
> >discounted price. If so, does anyone here maybe want a meter
> >depending on what's available and the price?
> >
> >Let me know, or otherwise, I won't ask him if one person can buy more
> >then one meter...
> >
> >What's the best meter for the money and the lowest price you've seen it at?
> >
> >http://us.fluke.com/usen/home/default.htm
> >
>---
>John De Armond
>See my website for my current email address
>http://www.johngsbbq.com
>Cleveland, Occupied TN
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Sherry Boschert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Anybody know this outfit?
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:53:11 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>It certainly might be possible at low speeds. It is not unheard of at EV
>endurance events. Many EV's can top 100 miles by going slow. LR......
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sherry Boschert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 4:53 PM
>Subject: Anybody know this outfit?
>
>
> > The San Francisco Electric Vehicle Association had a
> > booth at the Sierra Club's convention last weekend,
> > after which I got the email below about an EV
> > conversion business.
> >
> > Anybody know these folks? I'm skeptical of the claim
> > that they get 125 miles on lead acid batteries. I
> > haven't called him yet.
> >
> > thanks,
> > Sherry
> >
> > --- morgan tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> From: "morgan tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Subject: our plug in EV
> >> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:03:04 -0700
> >>
> >> Sherry:
> >>
> >> got your EVA information from your partners, they
> >> shown a battery car in the downtown last weeken.
> >> introduce ourselfves, we are company in EV
> >> experiment and production years.
> >> our EVs take regular car bodies, chassis, but it is
> >> no engine, no cooling system, no gas tank.
> >> we add our lead acid batteries, motor and other
> >> parts on.
> >> our first EV came out in the year 2000. this EV
> >> still is the good condition.
> >> Our EV run 125 miles in single charge, cost about
> >> $1.00 on the electrcity( 14 difference in the meter
> >> ) in this 125 miles range.
> >> when we make an option to, add a small generator(
> >> when it is running, the generator continue to charge
> >> the batteries).
> >> it ran up to the range in 310 miles.
> >>
> >> do your group like with me to build these plug in E
> >> vehicles?
> >> we can build them like the NEV models or like the
> >> gasoline cars run on the freeway.
> >> Our EV speed can go up to 70 miles per hour.
> >>
> >> not much money to build our EV, about $6,500 can
> >> make a 4-6 passenger seats EV.
> >>
> >> we have our site: www.fevehicle.com
> >>
> >>
> >> Morgan
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Anybody know this outfit?
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:57:00 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> format=flowed;
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>
>I live close by. I'm on it. I already emailed them. Will call them
>tomorrow. LR.........
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 5:31 PM
>Subject: Re: Anybody know this outfit?
>
>
> > I've never heard of them, but perusing their website I can say that all
> > the pictures were taken in Mainland China. The pictures they show of the
> > batteries look to me like Thundersky's Lithium batteries, not lead-acid.
> > I also think I've seen the bus pictures before - I got to them from the
> > Thundersky site somehow. Whether they are legit or not I can't say but
> > seems they want to figure out how to import ev's from china into the us.
> >
> > David
> >
> > On Sep 13, 2005, at 4:53 PM, Sherry Boschert wrote:
> >
> >> The San Francisco Electric Vehicle Association had a
> >> booth at the Sierra Club's convention last weekend,
> >> after which I got the email below about an EV
> >> conversion business.
> >>
> >> Anybody know these folks? I'm skeptical of the claim
> >> that they get 125 miles on lead acid batteries. I
> >> haven't called him yet.
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Sherry
> >>
> >> --- morgan tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: "morgan tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> Subject: our plug in EV
> >>> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:03:04 -0700
> >>>
> >>> Sherry:
> >>>
> >>> got your EVA information from your partners, they
> >>> shown a battery car in the downtown last weeken.
> >>> introduce ourselfves, we are company in EV
> >>> experiment and production years.
> >>> our EVs take regular car bodies, chassis, but it is
> >>> no engine, no cooling system, no gas tank.
> >>> we add our lead acid batteries, motor and other
> >>> parts on.
> >>> our first EV came out in the year 2000. this EV
> >>> still is the good condition.
> >>> Our EV run 125 miles in single charge, cost about
> >>> $1.00 on the electrcity( 14 difference in the meter
> >>> ) in this 125 miles range.
> >>> when we make an option to, add a small generator(
> >>> when it is running, the generator continue to charge
> >>> the batteries).
> >>> it ran up to the range in 310 miles.
> >>>
> >>> do your group like with me to build these plug in E
> >>> vehicles?
> >>> we can build them like the NEV models or like the
> >>> gasoline cars run on the freeway.
> >>> Our EV speed can go up to 70 miles per hour.
> >>>
> >>> not much money to build our EV, about $6,500 can
> >>> make a 4-6 passenger seats EV.
> >>>
> >>> we have our site: www.fevehicle.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Morgan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________
> >> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> >> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>
> >>
> >
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Stefano Landi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Fest-ev-a project update
>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:01:06 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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> format=flowed;
> charset="iso-8859-1";
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>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>http://www.e-volks.com/geo.html This one is in good condition. For the
>money it can't be beat. I'm sure they will sell you what you need if you
>want to do much of your own fabrication. LR......
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stefano Landi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:26 PM
>Subject: Re: Fest-ev-a project update
>
>
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > Yes I'm a bit concerned as well, but I really don't have the money to get
> > anything better so I'm hoping to repair what needs to be repaired and see
> > what happens. In my case I think this project won't be ultimately the EV
> > in
> > the end, but the process by which I get there. A little bit like a T-shirt
> > a
> > friend of mine once sent me with the saying "Life is not journey, not a
> > guided tour." I'm hoping to have some fun with the car of course, but if I
> > end up selling it or worst removing all the EV parts in a few years and
> > having to scrap it so be it, I'm looking at this as a huge learning
> > experience, EV school as it were. The main concerns for me rust wise were
> > the shock mounts and the main frame rails. Both of these items seem to be
> > pretty solid in my glider so I've chosen to continue. I payed $350 Cdn for
> > the donor car so it wasn't a huge investment. So far I'm having a blast
> > taking everything apart as it's one big meccano set for me. I used to
> > tinker
> > alot with cars, but since buying newer vehicles with on-board computer
> > engine management systems I really haven't been able to toy around. This
> > project gives me a great opportunity to learn everything from fabricating
> > battery boxes, to wiring, to making motor mounts and the list goes on,
> > what
> > an experience. Again, yes I would love it if my EV was very functional or
> > even just moderately so, but it's the process that I'm living right now.
> >
> > As for the amount I'm spending, well it's not much, but it was either not
> > do
> > it or do it for this amount. Again, my expectations are rather low really
> > and I'm taking a, "let's build it and see" attitude so even if it isn't a
> > 100% success, I'll be happy knowing I did it instead of wondering for
> > another 12 years, which by the way is how long I've been wanting to do
> > this.
> >
> > thanks for the interest and stay tuned as more fun stuff is on its way.
> >
> > Stefano
> >
> > On 9/13/05, Tom Shay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks, Stefano, for sharing your story. I'm sure all of us wish your
> >> project
> >> succeeds. Please plan to continue sharing your story as your conversion
> >> proceeds.
> >>
> >> I'm concerned about rust which you mention several times. You shouldn't
> >> try converting a vehicle with more than very minor rust problems. Get
> >> another car if yours has severe rust. Confront your rust problems early
> >> so
> >> you can decide whether to keep your car or get another before investing
> >> much
> >> money or time.
> >>
> >> $4500 Cdn isn't nearly enough money to do a good conversion even if you
> >> have or can get most of the expensive parts like motor and controller
> >> used.
> >> Plan to spend at least twice that much.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Stefano Landi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[email protected]>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:23 PM
> >> Subject: Fest-ev-a project update
> >>
> >>
> >> > Hello everyone,
> >> >
> >> > So what do you get when you decide to tackle an electric conversion of
> >> > a
> >> > Ford Festiva on a shoestring budget with a garage full of household
> >> grade
> >> > tools? Well tired for one thing, a little frustrated and satisfaction
> >> that
> >> > I'm slowly accomplishing something special. I really am impressed by
> >> many
> >> > of
> >> > the people on this list that have access to machine shops and have the
> >> > monetary wherewithall to carry out some of the more expensive
> >> conversions.
> >> > I'd love to be able to have that kind of money, but in my case when I
> >> set
> >> > about doing this conversion, the household CEO, aka the wife, raised an
> >> > eyebrow and asked me how much this would all cost. I had to come up
> >> > with
> >> > an
> >> > answer pretty quick and told her a figure of about $4,500 CDN. So the
> >> > challenge is on, to convert a Ford Festiva to an electric vehicle
> >> capable
> >> > of
> >> > getting me to work and back (18 miles) every day convincing both my
> >> > wife
> >> > and
> >> > my non-believing friends that it can be done. As you will see on my
> >> site,
> >> > this conversion is fraught with all sorts of problems and as it
> >> progresses
> >> > it's almost turning into a frame-off restore. Believe me I'm loving
> >> every
> >> > minute of it. Just thought you would all like to see the progress.
> >> >
> >> > regards,
> >> >
> >> > Stefano
> >> > http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
>From: Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the modern world.
>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:22:56 -0400
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:51:47 -0500, Ryan Stotts
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Neon John wrote:
> >
> >> What I am positive of is that the solution(s) to future transportation
> >> needs will not involve large quantities of batteries nor a wall plug.
> >
> >Even with low cost lithium batteries?
>
>Batteries are not a distribution system. The power grid is.
> >
> >Let's imagine a hydrogen future for a moment. I pull up to the gas
> >station and lets say I have 5, 10,000 psi tanks. How long is it going
> >to take to refill these tanks?
>
>I spent several days stranded in my MH in Detroit last summer next to
>a gas station that served up CNG. I watched numerous people having
>absolutely no problem refilling their high pressure CNG tanks.
>Ordinary people, not geeks. It took no longer than filling with
>gasoline. The filling station uses dump tanks. The filling rate is
>limited only by how much heat of compression the car's tanks can
>withstand.
>
> >Ever refilled any propane tanks?
>
>Thousands of times.
>
> >Not fast and not fun.
>
>Having operated a small fleet of propane powered delivery trucks, I
>beg to differ. A propane fueled vehicle refuels much faster than a
>gas fueled one, depending on the capabilities of the fill station.
>Mine would pump in excess of 10GPM which meant a fillup took a little
>under 2 minutes. Once one becomes familiar with the process and gets
>the hang of it, a propane refill is actually faster than a gasoline
>refill. "Fun" is too subjective to comment on. I thought the process
>kinda cool but my wife hated it. OTOH, she hated filling up with gas
>too, judging by where the gas gauge hand tended to reside....
>
> > I'd much rather plug in my car in my garage after I
> >get home from work(or sometime during the course of the evening) and
> >let it recharge while I'm either eating, doing something else, or
> >sleeping. Not spending ~15 minutes at the fuel station..
>
>I agree, I'd never want to spend 15 minutes refueling a vehicle. I
>can't imagine anyone designing a system that would require that. Of
>course I'd not want to spend all night "filling it up" either. Kinda
>screws up those impromptu "Hey honey, let's go to Chattanooga (30
>miles each way) for dinner and a show." "Sorry, babe, but the car
>won't be charged until dawn." Not gonna get any tonight....
>
> >
> >Any why bother with a hydrogen fuel cell? Why not hydrogen ICE?
>
>Because hydrogen is a difficult fuel to burn in an engine without
>detonating. It burns rapidly and at a very high temperature which
>makes the NOX problem much worse than with gasoline-fueled engines.
>
> >
> >How much money does a 10,000 psi tank(or close to that) currently
> >cost, and how many years is it good for before I need to get it
> >inspected? If those tanks are carbon fiber, it just seems to me all
> >the pressurization/depressurization cycles would be detrimental to the
> >integrity of the tank?
>
>Feel free to google for the precise answer but I believe the first
>inspection (visual only) interval is 17 years for a CNG tank and 5
>years thereafter. Irrelevant to hydrogen, however, as it will
>invariably be stored in some chemical compound - a hydride or ammonia
>or some other compound at from atmospheric pressure to a few hundred
>psi. Hydride tanks are already available commercially, in case you
>ever wanted to experiment.
>
>BTW, CNG is now a common motor fuel. MARTA (Atlanta metro bus
>service) has converted almost all of its buses to CNG. Many utilities
>and other fleet operators are using CNG fueled small vehicles. There
>is a little penetration into the civilian sector as evidenced by the
>CNG fueling stations popping up around large cities. Aviation
>applications for composite high pressure tanks date back to at least
>the Korean war era. If there were to be fatigue problems with the
>tanks, the problems would already be news. They aren't.
>
> >
> >Let's say for example peak oil happened and now oil is not low cost
> >anymore. Would GM and Ford, etc, convert their current line of
> >vehicles to all be propane and natural gas? Or they could do battery
> >powered for extra convenience.. Out of all the production EV's so
> >far, I think the Toyota RAV4 EV has been the most impressive and
> >showed the most potential. What'd it get, 100+ mile range and for all
> >intents and purposes, could be considered just a "normal" vehicle?
> >Highly underrated vehicle. At least I think so.
>
>Since a step change isn't going to happen, your argument is a
>strawman. Anything any of us say at this point is just a guess.
>
>Actually, the path the big OEMs and government has set forth is pretty
>clear - natural gas fueled hydrogen fuel cell cars. I think that is
>the correct choice over the short term and frankly, my crystal ball is
>a bit too blurry to attempt a prediction for the long term. NG fueled
>fuel cell technology is one that can be brought online in an
>evolutionary method with no major infrastructure changes being
>required.
>
>If the average joe ever plugs his car into something at home, I
>predict that it will be a high pressure NG or hydrogen line, depending
>on where the reformer ends up being located. Arguments can be made
>for either location. I'd prefer mine at home so that I could use the
>waste heat for other things such as hot water and comfort heating.
>
>John
>
>---
>John De Armond
>See my website for my current email address
>http://www.johngsbbq.com
>Cleveland, Occupied TN
>From: Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Catch the last bus (EV for sale)
>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:29:29 -0400
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:31:41 -0700, "David Chapman"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I saw the seller listed the batteries as "lead acid" but I am wondering if
> >this is really accurate? Would have thought it should have had some form of
> >Ni-Cad.
>
>Everything AVS built was based on bog-standard forklift-type lead acid
>traction batteries, formed up in standard dimension battery packs. The
>handling and charging stands look straight out of any large factory
>forklift operation. The bus pulls into the depot at end of tour, a
>forklift operator yanks out the old pack, sticks a new one in and the
>bus is ready for the next shift.
>
>AVS, despite all their hype, was not advanced at all. They used
>proven, mature technology (except for the microturbine, perhaps) that
>worked well. That the company officials were more interested in TV
>face time than in running a profitable company doomed them in the end.
>
>I visited the AVS factory on several occasions and never did see
>anything "high tech" other than the microturbine.
>
>John
>---
>John De Armond
>See my website for my current email address
>http://www.johngsbbq.com
>Cleveland, Occupied TN
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>Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>From: Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Coax
>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:47:40 -0700
>To: [email protected]
>
>
>On Sep 13, 2005, at 9:46 AM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> > I like the idea of fiber optic. ... It is great from point to point
> > but hard to imagine connecting 25
> > regulators via fiber.
>
>Why? A quick Froogle search shows a 3 foot TOSlink cable priced at
>US$7.49, a not outrageous price for a moderate number of regs. I don't
>know what it would cost to implement the TOSlink interface on the regs,
>but it doesn't require lasers or exotic optics, just LEDs and something
>that can detect the light, such as this US$3.69 part:
>
>http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?
>catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=276-640
>
>or the 10mhz parts on this page:
>
>http://www.hobbyengineering.com/SectionLD.html
>
>It's probably more expensive than EVILbus or ARCnet or CAN, but think
>of the noise immunity, and the potential bandwidth! And the
>overwhelming coolness!!! Or not.
>
> > Earlier I heard mention of Arcnet and how it is still around(devicenet
> > is industrial version?) Correct me if I am wrong but it's popularity
>%
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