EV Digest 4737
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: LRR Tires Continued
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) re: NEDRA Records for 2005(confession)
by "Brian D.Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: K&W Chargers
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: K&W Chargers
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: K&W Chargers
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: K&W Chargers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Grass rootes basic info
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Front wheel vs rear wheel drive
by Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: K&W Chargers
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Valence prices, availability, questions
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Grass rootes basic info
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Front wheel vs rear wheel drive
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) I want to buy an EV car.
by "Darrin Isaak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: K&W Chargers
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: K&W Chargers
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: K&W Chargers
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Highway capable conversion on a budget?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Unsubscribe
by Bruce Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Question on Solneil dual 36 V chargers
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: I want to buy an EV car.
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Cheap Conversion
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: NEDRA Records for 2005(confession)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: I want to buy an EV car.
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) NEDRA Power of DC on Discovery Channel Tonight
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: K&W Chargers
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Drilling long holes
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Question on Solneil dual 36 V chargers
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry, that's a smart thought. For a long narrow tire patch, the
first part of the tire patch packs down the salt, so the rest of the
tire patch has an easier go.
I wonder if a similar effect is occuring on other surfaces. Maybe the
tire "pumps" out air via a squeegee effect from between the tire and
the road. A narrow tire has the front part of the patch trail blaze
fro the rest of the patch, but a wide tire has to pump out more air.
--- jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi David and All,
>
> David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jerry, good point. Narrower but same diameter tires can help in
> these
> ways:
>
> Outright weight reduction
> Reduction in rotating mass
> Less aero drag
> Less rolling resistance
>
> Different diameters can also help reduce rolling resistance and
> change the car's effective gearing.
>
> In the Corvette's case, it went about 9% faster. Suppose the ground
> clearance of the Corvette is 1/2 foot, and the narrower tires were
> 1/2 foot narrower. This means the frontal area was reduced by about
> 1/2 sq. ft. for the two front tires. This means the car had about
> 3%
> less frontal area. Given that Power ~ v^3, we'd expect the speed to
> go up only about 1%. So there was definitely more at work with the
> narrower tires than just aero improvement.
>
>
>
>
> I had though of why beside your list above right after I
> had hit the send key is also probably the narrower dia tire takes
> less energy to flatten the salt under it's tires making up the rest
> of the drag saving.
>
> I'll probably go with the Insight tires as they are
> available, slightly over 6" wide and very light at 13lbs each.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
> --- jerry dycus wrote:
>
> > Hi David and All,
> > I'd bet the difference was air drag, not
> > rolling drag.
> > HTH's,
> > Jerry Dycus
> >
> > David Dymaxion wrote:
> > There was a magazine article author that was trying to make his
> 1st
> > gen VW Rabbit go as fast as possible on a race track. To his
> > chagrin,
> > his car was slower on the wider tires, and would go faster on the
> > narrower stock tires. He surmised the car just didn't have enough
> > power to overcome the additional rolling resistance of the wider
> > tires.
> >
> > There was a Corvette on the Salt Flats that switched from wide
> > tires
> > to narrow tires, and the 1 mile speed improved from 128 mph to
> 139
> > mph.
> >
> > Does a wider tire really "deflect less"? It may not sink down as
> > much, but there are more inches of width that are being bent.
> >
> > --- Phil Marino
> > wrote:
> > > ...
> > > As far as the benefit of a narrower tire, there just doesn't
> seem
> > > to be any
> > > testing, one way or the other, that looks at rolling resistance
> > vs
> > > tire
> > > width.
> > >
> > > I think wider tires would have lower RR - based on the fact
> that
> > > narrow
> > > tires deflect more (vertically) for the same load at the same
> > tire
> > > pressure
> > > than wider tires. But, it's just an untested idea.
> > >
> > > Some people seem to think that wider tires mean higher RR ( I'm
> > not
> > > sure why
> > > they think that way) .
> > >
> > > But, nobody seems to have done any real comparative testing, so
> > we
> > > just
> > > don't know.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
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> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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> > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The current NEDRA divisions are:
Voltage Divisions
A 241 V and above
B 193V - 240V
C 169V - 192V
D 145V - 168V
E 121V - 144V
F 97V - 120V
G 73V - 96V
H 49V - 72V
I 25V - 48V
J 24V and below
To run your vehicle in the "A " division you must have a nomial pack voltage
above 240 volts. We do not measure pack voltage , but trust all racers to be
honest and understand the rules.
Dennis, What voltage were you running when you set that 8.81 record?
Brian D. Hall ,, NEDRA record keeper...
> The currenteliminator did not run close to 336v when it set the 8.81
record.
> So now what. Dennis Berube
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
YOU CAN CALL KEN....KTA SERVICES (909)949-7914 OR ORDER LINE ONLY
(866)949-7914
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [Original Message]
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 9/19/2005 9:35:14 AM
> Subject: RE: K&W Chargers
>
> The model I am referring to specifically is the KW BC-250. Does anyone
have any info on this model? Supposedly good up to 200v.
>
> Mark Ward
> St. Charles, MO
> 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
> www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
THIS ONE IS A BC-20
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [Original Message]
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 9/19/2005 9:23:44 AM
> Subject: RE: K&W Chargers
>
> I need one that can be reset for 156v system. Some I have seen appear
capable of this.
>
>
> >
> > From: "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2005/09/19 Mon AM 08:42:15 EST
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: K&W Chargers
> >
> >
> > I HAVE A( K & W CHARGER )FOR SALE . BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO ASK FOR
IT.???
> >
> > Bill & Sharon Hoopes
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Date: 9/19/2005 4:57:37 AM
> > > Subject: K&W Chargers
> > >
> > > Were K&W chargers considered to be good? I don't seem to find a
website
> > for
> > > them and some used ones are around.
> > >
> > > Mark Ward
> > > St. Charles, MO
> > > 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
> > > www.saabrina.blogspot.com
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
Is there any special reason why you are running an automatic
transmission on your EV conversion? I would thik you are sacrificing a huge
bit of energy just to keep the pump running for that. Didn't SAAB make a
stick shift version of that car? I have been reading your blog - very cool
indeed! I think when I begin the conversion of my 1990 240SX I will do the
same thing so people can watch my progress as well.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: K&W Chargers
The model I am referring to specifically is the KW BC-250. Does anyone have
any info on this model? Supposedly good up to 200v.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree with comments below about K&W charger, but have to add some thoughts.
I have a K&W BC 20. I too like this charger very much for what it was
designed to do. It is a relatively small, light weight and inexpensive charger
that
provides good bulk phase charging. However when looking at battery chargers
it is appropriate to ask How smart is it?
The K&W charger is fine for the bulk charging phase. It is a voltage and
current limited charger. These limits are tuned by the user via potentiometers
on the face of the unit. Think of it as a Constant Voltage (CV), current
tapering charger.This means that in my case the voltage is set to a constant
value
(84 volts for a 72v series string) and current might go to say 12 amps
initially, then taper off to 1 to 3 amps as the pack gets close to full.
However, I believe that a "smarter" charger would understand that there may
be a need for a finishing charge phase after the bulk phase is complete. The
finishing phase (for AGMs) would be accomplished with a low current (say 2
amps) for fixed and limited time (say one hour, then automatically shutoff).
The
K&W does not appear to address a finishing charge phase.
Mike Bachand
DEVC
Colorado
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been listening quietly to the huge amount of discussion concerning
battery types, chargers, cable dimensions and so on and so on, but as a
newbie to EV I really would like some simple step by step guidance on how I
should treat an AGM EV battery pack during the charge.
Rather than advice on a particular charger is there a "best way" to charge
one of these sealed Pb packs - for example I know with my NiCad charging
experience we used to discharge the whole pack to 1.1volts per cell and then
charge to 1.1x C at the one hour rate to ensure full charge,. Later delta
peak chargers were used to avoid the need for the discharge process as you
could detect the "fully charged" condition with a drop in terminal voltage.
So assuming I am in complete "manual control " of the entire charging
process for an AGM battery how should I treat a single cell to ensure it is
fully charged correctly.
TIA
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill, I've got about as much time in as you so I'm applying simple logic
here.
The choice of front or rear wheel drive probably has more to do with
available donor vehicles than anything else. It depends as well on what
your final vehicle is supposed to be. If you are trying to convert a
small lightweight econo-box, then you're likely stuck with front wheel
drive unless its really really old.
I would imagine, all other things being equal, that it doesn't matter
that much, unless you want high-performance, tire-smoking as I believe
the general consensus is that rear-wheel drive is more stable and
controllable at high speeds and high acceleration -- the reason cop cars
are mostly rear-wheel drive.
Now, from an efficiency standpoint, you probably want your drive train
as short as possible to minimize weight and rotational inertia, both of
which suck up power when accelerating. Doesn't really pay to drive a
long drive shaft from the front of the car to the back. That puts you
into either a front-engine (motor) front wheel drive or a VW or porsche
type rear-engine (motor) rear wheel drive with transaxle. And you need
to have sufficient room to distribute your battery loads properly.
That's why, I assume, you see lots of EV's with multiple battery boxes
distributed throughout the car instead of stacked up in the back.
my n00bish .02
Andrew
Bill Klingbeil wrote:
Hey y'all, I've been on the list for a couple of weeks now and really enjoy the
information being put out there. Got to be honest though - a lot of it goes
right over my head! :-)
I'm really just getting started learning about ev conversions, so I've got a
few low-tech questions I'd appreciate some info on. First of all, is there an
advantage to either front wheel drive or rear wheel drive cars when it comes to
conversions? I'm curious about whether one or the other is more efficient when
it comes to converting battery juice to range and speed, or maybe one or the
other is just much simpler to convert.
Bill in Dallas
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
RIGHT ON!...............YOU ARE RIGHT!!!........BILL
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [Original Message]
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 9/19/2005 10:49:08 AM
> Subject: Re: K&W Chargers
>
> I agree with comments below about K&W charger, but have to add some
thoughts.
>
> I have a K&W BC 20. I too like this charger very much for what it was
> designed to do. It is a relatively small, light weight and inexpensive
charger that
> provides good bulk phase charging. However when looking at battery
chargers
> it is appropriate to ask How smart is it?
>
> The K&W charger is fine for the bulk charging phase. It is a voltage and
> current limited charger. These limits are tuned by the user via
potentiometers
> on the face of the unit. Think of it as a Constant Voltage (CV), current
> tapering charger.This means that in my case the voltage is set to a
constant value
> (84 volts for a 72v series string) and current might go to say 12 amps
> initially, then taper off to 1 to 3 amps as the pack gets close to full.
>
> However, I believe that a "smarter" charger would understand that there
may
> be a need for a finishing charge phase after the bulk phase is complete.
The
> finishing phase (for AGMs) would be accomplished with a low current (say
2
> amps) for fixed and limited time (say one hour, then automatically
shutoff). The
> K&W does not appear to address a finishing charge phase.
>
> Mike Bachand
> DEVC
> Colorado
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:50 PM 9/18/05 -0500, you wrote:
Is Valence planning on selling these in stores? What will the prices
be like for the 3 different sizes? How about just some wild guesses
if prices are not known? I suggest $25 for the small one, $50 for the
middle one, and $75 for the large one. :)
Don't hold your breath. One of our customers, a personal friend of the
Valence CEO, tried to get a pack for his car. The best quote he got was
$1300 EACH, down from $2100 full retail.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, first place to start is with the manufacturer's spec sheet for the
specific battery. They will publish the exact charging profile.
e.g. For my Deka Dominator batteries:
1. Bulk stage 1:
MAINTAIN constant current 3 Amps per 10 Ah @ C20. This is 18 Amps for
the Deka 8G34M.
FINISH when end voltage is 2.30-2.35 volts per cell. This is 358.8 -
366.6 volts for a pack of 26 batteries.
STOP when timer exceeds 1.2 * DoD (Ah)/Average Current (A) hours
2. Absorption stage 2:
MAINTAIN constant voltage of 2.30-2.35 volts per cell. This is 358.8 -
366.6 volts for a pack of 26 batteries.
FINISH when current acceptance is less than 0.1 Amps over one hour
FINISH if exceeds 12 hours
STOP if current exceeds 8 Amps after going below 6 Amps.
3. Float stage 3:
MAINTAIN constant voltage of 2.25 volts per cell. This is 351 volts
for a pack of 26 batteries.
Note: These voltages are for 20oC. The voltage should be adjusted based upon
pack temperature:
for each 1oC above 20oC subtract 0.005 Volts/Cell (subtract 0.78 volts per
oC for the pack of 26)
for each 1oC below 20oC add 0.005 Volts/Cell (add 0.78 volts per oC for the
pack of 26)
In summary, for a 26 Battery pack (312):
1. For the Bulk Stage, it is constant current of 18 Amps until end
voltage reaches 358.8 - 366.6 Volts
2. For the Absorption stage, it is constant voltage of 358.8 - 366.6
Volts, until acceptance current is less than 0.1 Amps over an hour or a
maximum of 12 hours
3. For the float stage (only required if batteries will sit idle for over
3 months), is to keep the pack at 351 volts.
The charging needs to be temperature compensated: subtract 0.78 volts/deg C
above 20 deg C or add 0.78 volts/deg C below 20 deg C
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Luck Home
Sent: September 19, 2005 10:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Grass rootes basic info
I have been listening quietly to the huge amount of discussion concerning
battery types, chargers, cable dimensions and so on and so on, but as a
newbie to EV I really would like some simple step by step guidance on how I
should treat an AGM EV battery pack during the charge.
Rather than advice on a particular charger is there a "best way" to charge
one of these sealed Pb packs - for example I know with my NiCad charging
experience we used to discharge the whole pack to 1.1volts per cell and then
charge to 1.1x C at the one hour rate to ensure full charge,. Later delta
peak chargers were used to avoid the need for the discharge process as you
could detect the "fully charged" condition with a drop in terminal voltage.
So assuming I am in complete "manual control " of the entire charging
process for an AGM battery how should I treat a single cell to ensure it is
fully charged correctly.
TIA
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FWD cars tend to be smaller and lighter. Alledgedly FWD is a bit more
efficient than RWD. On some FWD cars a big electric motor won't fit.
RWD is the choice if you want to go fast on dry pavement (weight
transfers to the rear wheels on acceleration, so you can take off
faster without wheelspin).
Your really sturdy vehicles, that could hold alot of battery weight,
tend to be RWD (trucks).
I would guess FWD and RWD are equally difficult to convert, with RWD
maybe being a little easier.
I think FWD may be less likely to get into an accident (safer
handling), but RWD is safer in a crash (generally more crush space).
If you have to drive on snow, FWD with a bunch of batteries in the
trunk loses alot of the advantages of lots of weight on the drive
wheels. In this case RWD may do as well or even better.
A good way to take an informal survey of vehicles:
<http://www.evalbum.com>
--- Bill Klingbeil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey y'all, I've been on the list for a couple of weeks now and
> really enjoy the information being put out there. Got to be honest
> though - a lot of it goes right over my head! :-)
>
> I'm really just getting started learning about ev conversions, so
> I've got a few low-tech questions I'd appreciate some info on.
> First of all, is there an advantage to either front wheel drive or
> rear wheel drive cars when it comes to conversions? I'm curious
> about whether one or the other is more efficient when it comes to
> converting battery juice to range and speed, or maybe one or the
> other is just much simpler to convert.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would like to buy an EV car. Anyone know where I can get one? Does anyone
have a RAV4-EV for sale? I will buy it!!!!
Darrin Isaak
AMCO TRANSPORTATION LOGISTICS
541-617-8400
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.amcotrans.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've heard that for some reason Brian Klosterman does NOT support the BC-
250, which is discontinued. If this be true, you will be on your own. Too
bad;
when it was introduced maybe 10 years ago, I thought it sounded like a fairly
decent charger.
I've used a BC-20 and wasn't all that impressed.
The power factor stinks, so the output is quite limited - I think I was able to
get 12a (or maybe it was 8a, I can't recall now) into a 128v pack before the
20a house breaker tripped.
It's also not isolated, and the GFI is quite sensitive. You have to keep the
batteries pristinely clean or the GFI trips. This always seems to happen after
you've retired for the night, so you wake up to a car that's 15% charged,
meaning you're taking the ICE that day.
The main advantages the BC-20s have are (1) they are (or were) relatively
cheap; and (2) they're light weight.
About the only reason I can see to use one is as an onboard charger, if one
had a heavy boat anchor charger and used it offboard.
Other folks might be willing to go higher, but I wouldn't pay more than $75,
maybe $100 tops, for a BC-20.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think my first message got cut off before I got a chance to post it...so if
this is a repeat, I apologize to the group.
Thanks for your interest in my project..good luck with yours as well.
My car was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Fantastic vehicle in outstanding
condition, original retail price about $40,000 in 1995. So Automatic or not, I
grabbed it. Outstanding suspension, brakes, features, perfect for me in every
other way.
The transmission would be hard to change, possibly requiring axle shafts,
having no clutch pedal, shift lever, etc, and of course additional cost. On
the other had it is electronic controlled via 4 solenoids. This allows me to
lock the torque converter, choose shift points, etc. as I please, or just lock
it in one gear and go. The Hyundai automatic is about as efficient as you can
get with an auto.
I expect to lose some efficiency, but my goal was to drive a 2900lb fully
accessorized car an average of 15 miles per day with a 156v pack of AGMs. I am
told this will be possible, and I will likely get 30-35 miles actual range. In
this I will be happy.
I have 2 objectives. One is to keep the "niceness" of the car, and the other
is to drive my 10-15 mile per day average. I think it will do both. I have
received pretty good advice from some great minds. One of them is an ex-GM
service manager and he tells me the automatic transaxle will do just fine. In
fact it is a bit easier to rig up than a manual, and the torque converter
weighs about the same as a manual flywheel on most engines.
I am told that because of how I am doing some things even my cruise control
will work again.
The car has to be nice enough for my wife to drive it, so I suppose that is
probably the MOST important aspect of the project!
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
> From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2005/09/19 Mon PM 12:37:57 EST
> To: "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: K&W Chargers
>
> Mark,
>
> Is there any special reason why you are running an automatic
> transmission on your EV conversion? I would thik you are sacrificing a huge
> bit of energy just to keep the pump running for that. Didn't SAAB make a
> stick shift version of that car? I have been reading your blog - very cool
> indeed! I think when I begin the conversion of my 1990 240SX I will do the
> same thing so people can watch my progress as well.
>
> Jody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:12 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: K&W Chargers
>
>
> The model I am referring to specifically is the KW BC-250. Does anyone have
> any info on this model? Supposedly good up to 200v.
>
> Mark Ward
> St. Charles, MO
> 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
> www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The big question I have is how are you going to get the hydraulic fluid
ready for the actuation of the gears? There will be a serious delay between
when you push the pedal to when the pump is running and getting the fluid to
where it needs to go. I would think that spending upwards of 10,000 would
be a lot for just 30 miles a day. What are the amp/hour capacities of the
AGM batteries you are going to use? The Trojan T-105s are 225 I think for a
6 hour discharge to 80% DOD. With a 144V system of T-105s you can expect 30
miles or so. I have yet to hear of an AGM that can deliver that much
current.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 2:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: K&W Chargers
I think my first message got cut off before I got a chance to post it...so
if this is a repeat, I apologize to the group.
Thanks for your interest in my project..good luck with yours as well.
My car was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Fantastic vehicle in
outstanding condition, original retail price about $40,000 in 1995. So
Automatic or not, I grabbed it. Outstanding suspension, brakes, features,
perfect for me in every other way.
The transmission would be hard to change, possibly requiring axle shafts,
having no clutch pedal, shift lever, etc, and of course additional cost. On
the other had it is electronic controlled via 4 solenoids. This allows me
to lock the torque converter, choose shift points, etc. as I please, or just
lock it in one gear and go. The Hyundai automatic is about as efficient as
you can get with an auto.
I expect to lose some efficiency, but my goal was to drive a 2900lb fully
accessorized car an average of 15 miles per day with a 156v pack of AGMs. I
am told this will be possible, and I will likely get 30-35 miles actual
range. In this I will be happy.
I have 2 objectives. One is to keep the "niceness" of the car, and the
other is to drive my 10-15 mile per day average. I think it will do both.
I have received pretty good advice from some great minds. One of them is an
ex-GM service manager and he tells me the automatic transaxle will do just
fine. In fact it is a bit easier to rig up than a manual, and the torque
converter weighs about the same as a manual flywheel on most engines.
I am told that because of how I am doing some things even my cruise control
will work again.
The car has to be nice enough for my wife to drive it, so I suppose that is
probably the MOST important aspect of the project!
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
> From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2005/09/19 Mon PM 12:37:57 EST
> To: "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: K&W Chargers
>
> Mark,
>
> Is there any special reason why you are running an automatic
> transmission on your EV conversion? I would thik you are sacrificing a
huge
> bit of energy just to keep the pump running for that. Didn't SAAB make a
> stick shift version of that car? I have been reading your blog - very
cool
> indeed! I think when I begin the conversion of my 1990 240SX I will do
the
> same thing so people can watch my progress as well.
>
> Jody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:12 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: K&W Chargers
>
>
> The model I am referring to specifically is the KW BC-250. Does anyone
have
> any info on this model? Supposedly good up to 200v.
>
> Mark Ward
> St. Charles, MO
> 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
> www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The Delta Q will operate at full power from AC inputs between
> 85 and 265 volts (universal input voltage).
Close; the charger does operate from 85-265VAC, however, it operates at
reduced power below about 100VAC. This is necessary to keep the input
current from exceeding the allowable level for a 15A 120VAC (nominal)
outlet even under low line conditions.
> The Delta-Q implements a four stage charge algorithm with (I
> assume) built in microprocessor control.
Yes, the charge algorithm is microprocessor controlled.
The number of stages depends on the particular algorithm selected.
> One advantage of the Russco here is that although its algorithm is
> obviously less sophisticated, it's easily end-user-configurable.
Delta-Q chargers presently ship with up to 9 user-selectable algorithms
installed, so there is some degree of user-configurability although
there is not the infinite flexibility available from a pair of voltage
and current limit knobs.
Although some EVers will perceive this to be a limitation, it makes good
sense for our main target markets (NEVs, golf carts, industrial EVs,
etc.), as the vehicle manufacturer is rightily concerned with battery
life and warranty issues and the operators are not generally
knowledgable in (or even interested in) proper battery maintenance and
charging. We spend a good deal of time developing algorithms in
conjunction with the battery manufacturers and the vehicle manufacturers
with the result that our customers can have confidence that when they
install one of our chargers it will properly charge their batteries
without any tweaking.
> The Delta Q charger is a fixed voltage device and supports
> batteries up to only 72 volts. (One could use two for 144
> volts.)
Yes, our chargers are built for specific nominal battery voltages (24V,
36V, 48V, and 72V). Multiple chargers can be used to span higher
voltage packs, and we have customers doing just this.
> The Delta-Q is a 12 amp charger
This is true of the 72V model only; lower voltage models have
proportionately higher output current (e.g. 24V 25A, 36V 21A, 48V 18A).
The chargers are conservatively rated and can (with appropriate
software) deliver higher current (for instance, we have algorithms that
allow the 12A 72V unit to deliver as much as 18A). Ultimately the
limiting factor is temperature; the charger will reduce its output as
required to keep from overheating internally.
Of course, it is also possible to parallel multiple chargers for greater
output current at a given voltage.
> Of course it depends on what you're trying to do. If you
> expect to do lots of re-arranging of your battery and
> experimenting with different voltages and types, something
> that is easier to configure than the Delta-Q might be a
> better choice, even if it is not as easy on the battery.
Yes, true enough. I will note that our present production units include
serial communications capable hardware and that we will "soon" be
shipping units with software that supports field updating of the
software and/or algorithms. This will allow a user to load a new
algorithm into their charger should it not have come with one suitable
for their particular battery. It is possible to use one of our chargers
to charge any battery pack whose voltage is less than or equal to the
charger's nominal rating (i.e. a 72V model could charge any battery up
to 72V) simply by loading an appropriate algorithm.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
unsubscribe
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--- Begin Message ---
Stefano Landi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I was wondering what the list thinks of using two
> 36V Soneil chargers to use as on-board chargers for
> my 72V Festiva conversion.
> The batteries I'm planning on using are US
> Battery US2200 (220 Ah).
Although the Soneil chargers are by all accounts quite decent, I would
not recommend them for use with your US2200s. They are simply too small
to properly charge these batteries.
US Battery recommends a *minimum* charge rate of near C/10 for their
product, and the 4.5A delivered by the Soneil 36V units is just way too
low.
There is also some question of whether these chargers could *ever* bring
a set of US2200s to a full state of charge. US Battery recommends their
batteries be charged to 2.583V/cell while the Soneil charges to just
2.40V/cell. The Soneil holds this voltage until the current tapers to
2.25V and then switches to float at 2.30V/cell. This means that the
only overcharge the battery will receive (assuming it can be brought to
a full state of charge at 2.40V/cell maximum) will be that delivered
during the float phase. As a result, it will likely never receive the
required overcharge bother because it will take so long to reach float
due to the charger's low current, but also because once in float the
current will drop so low that it would take many hours to deliver a
meaningful amount of overcharge to the battery.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
www.myersmotors.com
Should be avialable Oct-Nov.
Rod
--- Darrin Isaak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would like to buy an EV car. Anyone know where I
> can get one? Does anyone have a RAV4-EV for sale? I
> will buy it!!!!
>
> Darrin Isaak
>
> AMCO TRANSPORTATION LOGISTICS
> 541-617-8400
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.amcotrans.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
website for a cheap conversion:
<http://www.poormansev.com/>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had 312 volts on the car when I set the 8.81 record,but only had 240 when I
first set the record in Denver. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At what price?
On 9/19/05, Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> www.myersmotors.com
> Should be avialable Oct-Nov.
> Rod
>
> --- Darrin Isaak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I would like to buy an EV car. Anyone know where I
> > can get one? Does anyone have a RAV4-EV for sale? I
> > will buy it!!!!
> >
> > Darrin Isaak
> >
> > AMCO TRANSPORTATION LOGISTICS
> > 541-617-8400
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > www.amcotrans.com
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We made it on the Discovery Channel!
The NEDRA Power of DC race which was this past June in Maryland will
be on the Daily Planet, a Canadian Discovery Channel show, this Monday
evening at 7:00 pm and 11:00 pm Eastern Time.
It will air in the US on the Discovery Science channel and Discovery
This Week at a later date but we're not sure when yet.
There will be an short story on the race on the Discovery Channel
Website tomorrow at
http://discoverychannel.ca/_home/index.shtml
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Power of DC
http://www.powerofdc.com
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
ScooterWerks Electric Scooter Repair
http://www.scooterwerks.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't recommend the K&W BC-20 charger and I do not consider it to
be a smart charger. Not when compared to Today's charger
technology.
A K&W BC-20 charger is an un-isolated, 120 VAC charger rated with a
30 amp output. It is not unlike a light dimmer in circuity and has
no power factor correction. The current output is very spiky, thus
the charger is inefficient, and its huge current spikes cook/age
plugs, cords, outlets, and breakers.
The Escort conversion I had a K&W BC-20.
http://brucedp.150m.com/escort/ I also bought a K&W BC-20 with the
boost transformer from KTA. The Escort's 108 VDC pack did not need
the boost transformer. My Blazer's 132 VDC pack did need the boost
transformer.
I found when the pack is over 108 VDC, you should use the boost
transformer to compensate for the higher voltage pack and any
sagging AC source voltages. But make sure you mount the transformer
where it can dissipate heat. With amps going through it for hours,
the transformer gets hot.
I found to get a 25 amp output it took a 40 amp AC source using
10 gauge wiring. Similarly, I got a 10 amp output off a 20 amp
source. Don't be fooled by the built in current meter. A 7 amp
reading on their meter actually measures as a 10 amp RMS output.
The BC-20 charges at it's 'set' maximum current and the charge
current tapers current as the 'set' maximum pack (surface) voltage
is approached. This charger will put current back into the pack,
but it is not an optimal way to fully charge a pack.
The charger does not automatically do a slight over charge (a
finishing charge) to balance the pack like a smart charger does.
A person could manually do a finishing charge themselves by
playing with the charger's settings. But the settings on the BC-20
box could be confusing to the layman and the layman could
damage/prematurely age their pack by either under or over charging
their pack by not having the setting correct.
I do not recommend the K&W BC-20. It is better to not go cheap.
Save your money up to buy a decent charger, like a PFC-20 or
better.
A PFC charger can work off either 120 or 220 VAC, is very efficient
(puts almost all the power into the pack), and it allows you to use
the free public conductive charging (via an AVCON adaptor box sold
by the EAA eaaev.org).
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yea I did a 6 T-Rex heatsink with 18 inch long 3/8 holes in 7/8 alum with a
drill press and framing square once... It can be done, and actually is
rather easy.
I have a few drilled heatsinks on hand, from various projects of yesteryear.
But the Proto 75Kw power stage is made of 2 cheapie swaged copper tube
sinuous path heatsinks. These are about midgrade as to what you can buy for
really good water cooled
chill plates. They cost me $61 bucks each, and saved me a LOT Of time. But
the Rtheta could be batter, and much more expensive. The copper contact top
loaded swaged chill plates have about
%30 less Rtheta and much smaller Dead points, But you need to order 10 at a
time with a 8 to 10 week lead. Nice stuff, they are not really trying to
sell them...
So.. the 75Kw power stage is liquid cooled... and can stain full power for
quite a while, even with about 2 gallons of water, and NO radiator. This
charger has the ability to sustain 400 amps of 185 volts continuously. So
... it can out amp a Curtis 1221.... for a hours. The actual power stage is
about the size of a Zilla 2K With about 4 times the water flow..... And I
think I can do this with Air-cooling... I think I can I think I can....But
first I am going to grab the data with the water cooled stage. This is good
training for the ....150Kw...follow on design.....
Somewhere out there is a Manzanita Charger that will out Amp a DCP
Raptor in a continuous application.
Maybe this will help remove the chip I still have on my shoulder..concerning
DC controllers.... and my past life.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: Drilling long holes
> >On a related note: I have a 8" x 12" x 1/2" slab of aluminum that I
> >would like to use as a water-cooled heatsink. If I could drill a few
> >holes in it edgewise, I could make a "U" shaped path inside it, and
> >thread the ends for fittings (and a plug for the 3rd hole that connects
> >the ends of the first two.
> >
> >Trouble is, a normal long twist drill bit wanders too much. I think it
> >would break out the side before I could drill that deep.
>
> Turns out that I have done this and now have it done quite often.
> With aluminum you have it easy. We do it in copper on all the Zillas.
> That can be quite a pain since copper is very gummy. I drill a bit
> over 6" deep with a .328" drill in a .500 plate. Clearly it can't
> wander very much.
>
> It is of course important to have the axis nice and straight and to
> start the hole with a centerdrill and then short stiff bit. I use a
> mill as a drill press, but a well aligned drill press should work
> just as well. The start of the hole must be straight for the deep
> part to work. We use a split point 11" bit and grind the flutes down
> .010" after the first inch to reduce friction. Pecking to clear chips
> is very important. One bit usually lasts for more than ten heatsinks
> in copper. These are regular HSS bits.
>
> hth,
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like what I have read about the Soneil chargers but I have yet to
test one. So, I can not recommend them.
I agree with Rodger, that you need to have a higher charging
current to charge those large wet cell traction batteries properly.
It is unclear if putting two of these Soneil (smart) chargers in
parallel will work. Sometimes smart chargers fight each other and
do not charge correctly. I have real life practical experience
with this, just not with Soneil chargers.
If you still want to do this, how about three 24 chargers with a
6 amp output. (from the evparts.com site)
CH5311 Charger, Soneil, 24 volt, 6 amp constant current output,
115/230 VAC input, order DC Plug separately
10 amps would be better, but you might be able to get away with a
really long slow 6 amp charge.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
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