EV Digest 4757
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Advice on getting motocycle glider for an EV
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by "stU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by "stU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Peugeot 206 + 15kW Siemens (copy, with US units)
by Osmo Sarin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Scratch Building a Car ( was RE: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead
of the bumper? )
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Which Nedra class?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Scratch Building a Car ( was RE: Can batteries be mounted up front
ahead of the bumper? )
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: CE NEWS
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Which Nedra class? - wreck
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Calling Shawn Lawless
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Meters
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Which Nedra class? - wreck
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re:87 s10 bought last nite at Speedworld
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: article: Subaru Parent Sets Timeline for Electric-Car Development
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Peugeot 206 + 15kW Siemens (copy, with US units)
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: vw thing ev
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Weird wire bundle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: creaky rear struts in VoltsRabbit - slightly O.T.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) LazyBoy E-Chair Races - SEVA Win,Place,and SHOW
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Advice on getting motocycle glider for an EV
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Advice on getting motocycle glider for an EV
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Advice on getting motocycle glider for an EV
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Advice on getting motocycle glider for an EV
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Article on Plug-In Hybrid
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark
Don Crabtree knows of a few good sources for parts in this area.
Don't pay a lot for stuff! People commonly almost give away motorcycles that
don't run.
I would look on Craig's List.
Wishin' you luck.
cya
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jerry dycus
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 8:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
Hi Don and All,
Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Weight behind the rear axle or in front of the front axle will give the
vehicle a high polar moment of inertia. The vehicle will tend to respond
slowly and understeer in corners. However, once the car begins to corner,
it will take more effort on behalf of the drive to correct. A sluggish
handling car is not desirable. This is one reason why automotive engineers
seek to keep the weight between the wheels.
First, I did not say that ALL batteries would be up front. By having some
weight up front, batteries placed in the rear would shift the cg to wherever
wished to have it.
If for example, the cg was such that the weight over the front/rear axles
was 70/30, would the car handle OK?
stU
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does the surprise begin with the letter 'B'?
stU
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 12:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Didn't CommutaVans have battery packs in the bumpers?
Normal front bumper:
http://www.motorcontrol.com/Press_Releases/commutacar-tico-2.jpg
Front bumper with a surprise inside!
http://www.ebeaa.org/graphics/ccar.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
stU wrote:
> Does the surprise begin with the letter 'B'?
I'm nearly certain. Someone one this list actually helped build those
vehicles back then and would know for certain how many were in it.
I've also seen it mentioned that it caused the vehicle to handle
poorly.
Think of a big, heavy 1970's car with a huge front end that hung out
in front of the front tires. Not the best handling because of all the
weight hanging out there.
Why not put the entire battery pack between the front and back wheels
and have it be below the driver? That's really the only place for it.
That's how the Tango is setup.
Look how low to the ground it is with nothing beyond the front and back tires:
http://www.commutercars.com/images/gallery/misc/index/indexfiles/7Side.jpg.jpg
http://www.commutercars.com/images/gallery/misc/index/indexfiles/8RearQuarter.jpg.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Don, and others, for your comments!
Osmo
25.9.2005 kello 17:05, Don Cameron kirjoitti:
Osmo, the New Beetle accelerates 0-50kmh in under 6 seconds on the
flats.
It weighs 1700kg loaded and has a Siemens 5133 that is 30kW nominal
and 78kw
peak, with the Simovert short controller.
The New Beetle has reasonable acceleration up hills. If I could do it
again, I would convert a lighter vehicle. Less power required for
acceleration and hill climbing.
When I was trying to determine a motor/controller combination for the
New
Beetle, Victor recommended the 5105WS12 which is a smaller 18kW rated
motor.
He indicated that any of the motors will put out the max power of the
inverter. The larger size motor is needed for longer hills. I have
two
such particular hills in my area and am pleased with the combination I
have
purchased.
Maybe Victor can comment.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Osmo Sarin
Sent: September 24, 2005 1:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Peugeot 206 + 15kW Siemens (copy, with US units)
..sorry I forgot to add US units. Here´s the message again:
-------
I´m planning to convert Peugeot 206 as my first project, and I´ve been
offered a Siemens 1LH5118 AC motor with 15 kW rated, 123 Nm max, and
Simovert 6SV1 short inverter (110-380 V, max DC 280 A, max 80 kW).
According to my own calculations (which may be incorrect) I would need
much
more power, but the seller says 15 kW is enough for my requirements,
which
are:
-total weight (with passengers) 1400 kg (3090 lbs) -top speed 110 km/h
(68
mph) -acceleration 6 sec 0-50 km/h (0-31 mph) = normal ICE-acc.
-voltage about 300 V
I´d appreciate any comments,
Osmo Sarin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The simple question "would the car handle OK?" is unanswerable without
considering many, many factors. Vehicle handling, suspension and chassis
design is complex. There is no simple answer. There are **many**
interrelating aspects which can seriously affect handling. Here are a few:
Suspension
* bump steer
* camber gain
* caster gain
* polar moment of inertia
* ride frequency
* spring motion ratio
* oversteer, understeer
* CG front-rear axis
...and many more.
Chassis
* triangulation
* members in pure tension or compression
* shear plates
* rivet, bond or weld?
* ladder, triangulation, spaceframe or monocoque?
* 1020, 4130, 3030 6160 - which material? Used Where?
...and many more.
In designing a vehicle these all have to be taken into account, or else
adverse affects will abound. And on top of it all a 3-wheel vehicle will
behave much differently than a motorcycle or a 4 wheel car. It is also much
more difficult to engineer and model, as there is not as large of a body of
knowledge with 3 wheelers as there is with motorcycles and cars.
My suggestion, to everyone who wants to design their own car, is read the
books I suggested, become familiar with the task at hand, and then start
speaking with experienced and successful chassis builders.
As Jerry points out, this is not a chassis building forum. Largely people on
this forum are converting cars, few are building them from the ground up.
There are other, more suitable forums for scratch built cars. (Check the
kit car forums or locost cars, etc.). For engineering of suspensions and
chassis', see eng-tips.com
It can be done, but become educated first. The books are a good place to
start.
Don
P.S. As for the batteries, I never assumed you to have all the batteries up
front either. That might be fun for the demolition derby, but a killer on
the streets.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of stU
Sent: September 25, 2005 12:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jerry dycus
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 8:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
Hi Don and All,
Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Weight behind the rear axle or in front of the front axle will give the
vehicle a high polar moment of inertia. The vehicle will tend to respond
slowly and understeer in corners. However, once the car begins to corner, it
will take more effort on behalf of the drive to correct. A sluggish handling
car is not desirable. This is one reason why automotive engineers seek to
keep the weight between the wheels.
First, I did not say that ALL batteries would be up front. By having some
weight up front, batteries placed in the rear would shift the cg to wherever
wished to have it.
If for example, the cg was such that the weight over the front/rear axles
was 70/30, would the car handle OK?
stU
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Weight behind the rear axle or in front of the front axle will give the
> vehicle a high polar moment of inertia. The vehicle will tend to respond
> slowly and understeer in corners. However, once the car begins to corner,
> it will take more effort on behalf of the drive to correct.
----------------
> Stu wrote: ... By having some weight up front, batteries placed in the
> rear would shift the cg to wherever I wished to have it.
The other guys know EVs - but I used to teach science. Here's another way to
explain what they Don just said: imagine the the spinning ice skater with
arms out compared to arms drawn in. Arms out = mass far away from center of
rotation = slow turns. Arms in = mass close to center of rotation = fast
turns. Or think "torque" in opposition to your changing the direction of
the vehicle.
If I design a 3-wheeler with MY weight out front (Stu wanted batteries
there - same thing), and balance the mass so I get 2/3 of the mass over the
two wheels and a 1/3 of the mass over the one wheel, all will be well so far
as traction is concerned... but the vehicle would take great work to get
started turning, and great work to get it to stop turning.
Instead, if all of the mass were at one point (OK, imagine) about a third
back from the front axle, it would have the SAME weight distribution (2/3 &
1/3) AND it would have exactly the same center of gravity, BUT it would turn
with less effort. The critical difference deals with the distance from the
mass(es) to the center of rotation. The center of rotation would be the
back wheel, since it doesn't turn
Numbers: for illustration, assume a1200 lb, 12' long vehicle, with a
wheelbase of 9', and a non-turning back wheel. We all know these are goofy
numbers, but they'll do to show the point:
Case 1 has 2/3 of the mass (=900 lbs) three feet in front of the front axle,
and 1/3 of the mass (300 lb) on top of the back axle. This gives a center of
gravity at six feet in front of the back axle. 900*3+300*0 = 10800 ft lbs
Case 2 has ALL of the mass at six feet in front of the back axle. 1200 * 6 =
7200 ft lbs, only 2/3 of Case 1.
Or one could design the back wheel to turn - "with" for freeway, so you
wouldn't have to change the angular momentum at all, and "contra" for easy
parking - Porsche did this for one of their concept cars, I think.
Hope this helps,
-Tim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:13 PM 9/25/2005, you wrote:
In a message dated 9/25/05 9:37:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< What, exactly, did I do?
**** answering off list
The reality is that I really didn't do anything to Dennis that
could have prompted him to leave NEDRA.
The only thing I can think of that could have possibly prompted
his leaving NEDRA was the "Curtis Whiner" award that was given to him as a
joke by Rod Wilde.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An interesting car: http://www.arielmotor.co.uk/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It was 1am sunday morning when I got my 1st round completed.I had a .013 red
lite against a pro stock car(#1 qualifer) that just had the best 1 shot
practice round of all the super pro cars there,he drove to a perfect dial so I
knew
I had to cut it close.My cars 60ft.#s continue to change and its been hard to
dial a rock solid #.It was an exellent track with my fast friends runing low
7s and hi 6s so tire spin was not an issue. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
One incident at Speedworld Motorplex 9 years ago when
an unsafe
track
condition caused my car to flip 2 times in mid air at
118mph and NHRA
closed the
track for 2 months for repairs.Really no fault of
mine.There were "NO"
injures
because all my safety equipment worked properly. The
car landed right
side up
and I drove it back to the pits.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\
Wow!
That's pretty impressive Dennis. Do you have a link
that describes the wreck or even better some pictures?
I don't know anything about racing setups, but was the
roll cage similar to an ice rail?
You must have some awesome tie downs for the
batteries.
Was there anything on the list back then describing
this incident?
Glad you didn't get hurt.
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn, Do you still have the old Zilla I sold you?Can I buy it
back? Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I remember somebody was thinking of having a meter per battery.
I just ran into these while looking for some parts:
http://www.electronicsurplus.com/ccp70714-meters-350-uamp-full-scale-d-c------11-16inchsqua-8-330-4407.htm
Tiny meters for 0.50 each. You'd probably want to us a Zener and
resistor to make them expanded scale...
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 9/25/05 1:16:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Which Nedra class? - wreck
Date: 9/25/05 1:16:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rod Hower)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
One incident at Speedworld Motorplex 9 years ago when
an unsafe
track
condition caused my car to flip 2 times in mid air at
118mph and NHRA
closed the
track for 2 months for repairs.Really no fault of
mine.There were "NO"
injures
because all my safety equipment worked properly. The
car landed right
side up
and I drove it back to the pits.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\
Wow!
That's pretty impressive Dennis. Do you have a link
that describes the wreck or even better some pictures?
I don't know anything about racing setups, but was the
roll cage similar to an ice rail?
You must have some awesome tie downs for the
batteries.
Was there anything on the list back then describing
this incident?
Glad you didn't get hurt.
Rod
>>
I was not on the list back then so I do not know if anyone wrote about
it,however I do have a cam corder tape of the action somewhere.My girl Mara was
filming and she dropped the cam corder as I was making my 2nd aerial spin.That
was
our 1st fight as a couple,not that she dropped the recorder but that she did
not get all the action. The comments from the
safety and track cleanup were cute.No oil,fire,antifreeze,gas,battery acid just
a touch of roll cage paint on the track.Yes the car had a full NHRA super
comp roll cage 7.50et.spec. They did let another set of cars go after my
accident and guess what?Another accident in the same spot. The track was
closed
after that driver was hauled to the hospital.
Damage to the CE2 was limited to a slightly bent right front wheel and a 2.5
inch scrape on the top of the roll cage.Nhra pulled my chassis cert. until I
had
the cage recertified.The batteries(HAWKER 13ah)stayed in ther tiedowns and
all other systems remained in good condition.This all happened before Nedra
appeared. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like it will be a bowtie affair.For just $200.a strait s10 without
engine or tranny or interior.It was going to be a race truck but he found a
better
ride.That big barrel of a motor seen buy Bob Rice and Dave Chapman will be
modified with a few of my tricks and installed into a late model
alum.indepenant
corvett rear direct.Completion Jan 06 Track times estimate 10.5 + -
.4sec.qt.mi. fully street legal,lic and insured.
Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is not clear from the article if this is just another NEV or a real
electric car with capability to highway speeds.
It might not have been clear in that particular article, but it has been
very clear in others. This will be a freeway capable car.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Osmo,
Who is your supplier?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: "Osmo Sarin"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 9/25/05 12:50:21 PM
To: "[email protected]"<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Peugeot 206 + 15kW Siemens (copy, with US units)
Thanks Don, and others, for your comments!
Osmo
25.9.2005 kello 17:05, Don Cameron kirjoitti:
Osmo, the New Beetle accelerates 0-50kmh in under 6 seconds on the
flats.
> It weighs 1700kg loaded and has a Siemens 5133 that is 30kW nominal
> and 78kw
> peak, with the Simovert short controller.
>
> The New Beetle has reasonable acceleration up hills. If I could do it
> again, I would convert a lighter vehicle. Less power required for
> acceleration and hill climbing.
>
> When I was trying to determine a motor/controller combination for the
> New
> Beetle, Victor recommended the 5105WS12 which is a smaller 18kW rated
> motor.
> He indicated that any of the motors will put out the max power of the
> inverter. The larger size motor is needed for longer hills. I have
> two
> such particular hills in my area and am pleased with the combination I
> have
> purchased.
>
> Maybe Victor can comment.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Osmo Sarin
> Sent: September 24, 2005 1:16 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Peugeot 206 + 15kW Siemens (copy, with US units)
>
> ..sorry I forgot to add US units. Here´s the message again:
> -------
> I´m planning to convert Peugeot 206 as my first project, and I´ve been
> offered a Siemens 1LH5118 AC motor with 15 kW rated, 123 Nm max, and
> Simovert 6SV1 short inverter (110-380 V, max DC 280 A, max 80 kW).
>
> According to my own calculations (which may be incorrect) I would need
> much
> more power, but the seller says 15 kW is enough for my requirements,
> which
> are:
>
> -total weight (with passengers) 1400 kg (3090 lbs) -top speed 110 km/h
> (68
> mph) -acceleration 6 sec 0-50 km/h (0-31 mph) = normal ICE-acc.
>
> -voltage about 300 V
>
> I´d appreciate any comments,
>
> Osmo Sarin
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.cassidy-online.com/thing74/thing74.html here is what one person
did. Looks like 72v of 6volt batteries would work at least. Maybe more.
There are at least 860 pounds of batteries in the vehicle. Lawrence
Rhodes..
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 11:51 AM
Subject: vw thing ev
All,
I have the opportunity to buy a vw thing that has very little rust.
Since it is a convertible, would it be able to support a 72v or 96v
battery pack? The guy is selling it for $3500. I need to know quickly so
if any of you are thing experts please call me at 207-319-5989. It's 2:50
pm saturday afternoon and I'll have my cell phone with me. Thanks.
John David
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is the second time I've wired it up and I don't want to do it again. I
think a solution is to run another pair along the bundle & attach with wire
ties. Probably I'll find the problem. It has to be an accidental cut and
splice in which case I may or may not be able to depend on one pair. They
aren't twisted. It's just what I'm using them for. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: Weird wire bundle
At 05:23 AM 24/09/05 -0700, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I was wiring my sense wiring for the long range Rudman regs and the bundle
of 15 wires plus ground did something weird. I got a strange loop in the
bundle. One wire doesn't have a mate. I just don't get it and it has
continuity with a wire that it shouldn't.
Does that mean 15 wires at one end and 14 at the other? or 15/15 but one
wire doesn't connect through, but connects to an adjacent wire?
Maybe I should check for damage in the wire bundle. I just don't get
it. Are bundled wires ever wired like this? Two wires at one end going
to one wire at the other? This is really strange. I cut the thing off a
spool..... No I didn't it was a piece just laying there already cut.
Argggg. Maybe the cutter knew something I didn't. ....
What sort of wire is it? Twisted pairs plus one? Chicom or quality brand?
There can be 'funnies' at the start and end of a cable batch, but I've
never seen one like that.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Whoa. Is the nut or bolt dirty. Could be you are getting a bad torque
reading. Clean or oil the threads and then use a torque wrench. You don't
want to strip anything. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: creaky rear struts in VoltsRabbit - slightly O.T.
Lawrence,
I got a small crescent wrench on the top of the strut bolt to
keep the shock from turning. Then I think I used a box-end
wrench for tightening down the nut, maybe 9" to 12" long. I was
pulling pretty good on that, and the nut didn't seem to be
tightening down much. Sooo... I guess I will trying leaning
into it a bit more and forget about the ~25 ft-lb figure.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: creaky rear struts in VoltsRabbit - slightly O.T.
Chuck. The top of the strut/shock should have a square or
rectangle shape
you can get a small wrench on. That will keep the shaft from
turning. It
sounds like your shock is loose. You do have to get the nut
down a ways to
expose the end of the shaft. Lawrence Rhodes..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL post" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:11 PM
Subject: creaky rear struts in VoltsRabbit - slightly O.T.
> The rear strut assemblies on my VoltsRabbit have been rather
> creaky lately. I'm wondering if any of the VW gurus out
there
> have had this problem and solved it.
>
> When I went to replace my battery pack last spring, we
decided to
> swap sides on the two rear struts to see if a mild rattling
> problem would move. The rattling problem would occur in the
> passenger side strut when I would go over a road that had a
mild
> washboard (there's a particular one I'm thinking of on the
uphill
> south side of Wolfe Grade) in the asphalt. We disassembled
the
> springs and struts (actually putting in new springs), and the
> struts aren't leaking and appear ok. Hopefully we got
everything
> back together ok. Then we swapped sides. It's rather hard
to
> tighten up the bolts appearing inside the car body without
the
> shock absorber turning. It also prevents one from latching
on a
> torque wrench. Anybody know about the special tool 50-200
(if I
> recollect the number correctly) that's mentioned in the
factory
> service manual to keep the bolt from turning? It's guess and
by
> gosh as to what torque I'm getting. Things really creaked
after
> reinstallation. Tightened down some more, and after awhile
the
> creak became less. But it's still aggravating. It sounds
like
> rubber slipping on metal, along with the occasional thump
when I
> go over a bump (thump being more on the left side - old
> right-side strut with the noise).
>
> Are the rubber pieces at the top of the strut supposed to be
> really well squished? What kinda torque is that going to
take?
> I think I'm already well over the ~25ft-lbs specified. Do
these
> rubber pieces ossify with time, and should I try replacing
them?
>
> When the shop down the street installed new front struts for
me a
> few years ago, they creaked while turning for awhile, but the
> problem eventually went away.
>
> I saw on a website awhile ago special bearings that could be
put
> in the rear, but it required a special weld job, which looked
> like big work with big chances of screwing up. This rubber
stuff
> looks like it is a royal pain if it doesn't sit in there
right.
> I can even hear it creak when I get out of the car and the
car
> raises up a bit.
>
> Creaking down the road in my electric jalopy,
> Chuck
>
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
> http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seattle EV Entries come in WIN, PLACE, and SHOW, and bring in $700. in
Prize Money...
Well, that was in the DRAG Race Section of the Competition. We really
whopped their Gas-Burning Tails. ( although ALL the chairs were
Electric, the builders of 5 of them, came from this Vintage Racing
Community, very used to driving Hopped up Road Coarse Corvettes,
Mustangs, Porsches, Jags, and other more obscure English cars.. I mean
the 4th place chair , with a racing transmission, 12" racing tires and
wheels had not finished even HALF the Drag Course ( aprox 1/8th mile)
when both of Dave Clouds Chairs, and Don Father Times Trike streaked
over the finish line at between 50 to 60 MPH !!!
The first part of the competition was a giant slalom, well a quite
tight slalom, about 1 block long. And the fellow driving Dave Clouds
Brown Chair was an overly aggressive young GAS Race car Driver,
Son-in-law to our Host, Chuck Lyford,(image 0567) and missed some cones,
and spun out once. Don (Father Time) also missed one GATE and was out
of the prize money. Dave's REEELY fast Blue chair was driven by a (semi)
famous Unlimited Hydro Driver, named Billy Schumacher.
( http://www.thunderboats.org/billykid.shtml) ( Well famous in the
North West any way...) He did an excellent job through the slaloms and
in the Drag Race, and gave Dave a FIRST PLACE !
I have several video snippets, from my digital camera, and many MANY
pictures, I hope to have available soon, with the help from some of our
Web Guys. And eventually we will have ALL the pictures, and Details on
the SEVA web site.
SECOND to all our E-Chair fun, was watching all this beautiful
horsepower thrash their way round the road coarse at Pacific Race Way...
Yes.. even after 25 years of Electric Cars, there is still a bit of oil
some where in my vanes. Our Hosts ( SOVRIN Racing ) were very gracious
to all the EV folks, with lunch, and prize money, and logistics.
NEXT YEAR it looks like it will be all up to ME, but with HELP from
Chuck Lyford to rustle up even MORE famous Race Celebrities as Guest
Drivers, and perhaps even raise some money for local charities.
Keep in Touch.....
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been thinking about this myself and looking at possible candidates. I
have noticed that the Honda Rebel and Magna models have very low seats.
These are almost feet forward bikes. I'm thinking they will have the best
aero of any bike and a nice fairing should help also. Maybe some other guys
and the El Chopper guy if you are around lurking maybe you can chime in
also.
http://www.21wheels.com/elchopper_ET.html Here is El Chopper ET.
http://www.evdeals.com/BidwellElChopper.htm El Chopper. Really a hopped up
bicycle but it looks cool. Very efficient. LR..........
Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dodrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 7:28 AM
Subject: Advice on getting motocycle glider for an EV
Hello all. I want to get myself into another EV, and I think the best one
for me at this time is a motorcycle. I just discovered Craig's list for
Seattle (wow, it's cool!), and it looks like I might be able to
barter/trade
to get a glider, with relative ease. The weather is about to go bad until
spring, so this gives me time to complete the project before next year. My
goal is to have a daily commuter (13 miles each way, may be able to charge
at work) that I would probably ride only in good weather, floodeds or AGMs
probably, must go 40mph (freeway capable nice but not required), 48-72
volts
I think, probably contactor controller at first then move to Altrax, motor
TBD.
I would appreciate any advice on what to look for in my search. These are
the things I can think of:
* Clear title
* Working brakes
* Working electrical
* Little if any rust/dents
* Transmission type (not sure what is best or if it matters)
* Larger frame is better (for space for batteries and motor)
* Specific manufacturer? (not familiar with motocycles at all)
* Other?
Thanks in advance for your help.
--
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.electric-bikes.com/motorcys.htm Another EV motorcycle/scooter
site.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dodrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 7:28 AM
Subject: Advice on getting motocycle glider for an EV
Hello all. I want to get myself into another EV, and I think the best one
for me at this time is a motorcycle. I just discovered Craig's list for
Seattle (wow, it's cool!), and it looks like I might be able to
barter/trade
to get a glider, with relative ease. The weather is about to go bad until
spring, so this gives me time to complete the project before next year. My
goal is to have a daily commuter (13 miles each way, may be able to charge
at work) that I would probably ride only in good weather, floodeds or AGMs
probably, must go 40mph (freeway capable nice but not required), 48-72
volts
I think, probably contactor controller at first then move to Altrax, motor
TBD.
I would appreciate any advice on what to look for in my search. These are
the things I can think of:
* Clear title
* Working brakes
* Working electrical
* Little if any rust/dents
* Transmission type (not sure what is best or if it matters)
* Larger frame is better (for space for batteries and motor)
* Specific manufacturer? (not familiar with motocycles at all)
* Other?
Thanks in advance for your help.
--
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-09-25, Mark Dodrill wrote:
>
> Hello all. I want to get myself into another EV, and I think the best one
> for me at this time is a motorcycle. I just discovered Craig's list for
> Seattle (wow, it's cool!), and it looks like I might be able to barter/trade
> to get a glider, with relative ease.
By 'glider' you mean rolling chassis? Should be pretty damn cheap
from a wrecker's yard, the engines are generally what goes. I'd go
for a smallish beastie, because a lot of the weight of a bigger bike
is in making the chassis stiff enough to handle 100hp of engine.
> I would appreciate any advice on what to look for in my search. These are
> the things I can think of:
Okay, if you're not familiar with bikes at all, the first thing I'd
do if I was you would be:
1. Go do a motorcycle rider's course.
2. Buy, beg, or borrow a regular, petrol guzzling 250cc bike
and ride it around for a bit.
Why? 1. will reduce the risk of you getting killed straight off, which
would be a shame. 2. will actually give you some idea if you like
bikes: they're not for everyone and it'd be a shame to discover this
after you sink thousands into building an electric one. You'll also
have a better idea of the limitations of your E-bike. Small bikes
are pretty cheap to run anyway.
> * Transmission type (not sure what is best or if it matters)
Practically all bikes are manual shift, generally a constant-mesh
5 or 6 speed operated with the left foot. There have been a few
autos made, but they were never popular, and there's a few scooters
around with CVTs.
Practically all Japanese bikes have the transmission integrated into
the engine: for an electric bike you're most likely looking at ditching
the engine/gearbox and using a direct chain drive. So one of the most
important questions is: how fast do you want it to go?
One good thing is that bikes have very little power anything: brakes
are direct hydraulics or rods, there's no A/C or power windows, speedo
is often mechanically driven. So there's less messing around than
most of the folks here are doing with their cars -- all you've got to
do is provide 12V for the lighting circuits.
I've made some notes on my E-bike project at:
http://zoic.org/sharkey/moto/ev/
cheers,
sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-09-25, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> I've been thinking about this myself and looking at possible candidates. I
> have noticed that the Honda Rebel and Magna models have very low seats.
> These are almost feet forward bikes. I'm thinking they will have the best
> aero of any bike and a nice fairing should help also.
Terrible aerodynamics. Try riding a cruiser at speed and you'll _feel_
it :-). If you covered 'em up in a streamliner fairing perhaps ...
That being said, all bikes have the Cd of a tumbling halfbrick ...
so perhaps it won't make as much difference as all that.
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0922/p12s01-sten.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
stU wrote:
> First, I was not thinking of just an open battery box up front.
> More in the way of an extended roll cage with skin concept
> integrated into the car's frame below the hood line.
Let me describe the ComutaVan setup. It mounted its batteries in the
bumpers; half in front, half in rear. It was crash tested, and met
government standards in 1980.
Each battery box held six golf cart batteries. They were in a 5-sided
box made of 0.090" aluminum sheet, about 22" x 24" x 12". It was seam
welded in the corners, and had a small drain hole in the bottom. The top
edges had a lip bent out about 2" wide.
The bumpers were 4" x 2" thick-walled rectangular aluminum extrusions.
They were covered with a 1" thick layer of dense foam rubber on 5 sides.
The 6th side bolted directly to the top of the battery box.
The bumper+battery box assembly mounted to the car with three large
shock absorbers. They looked like big fruit juice cans and were foam
filled. The left and right lips of the battery box sat on the left and
right frame rails. One shock absorber went between the rear of the
battery box and a frame crossmember. The other two went between the
outer ends of the bumper and the frame. Four small bolts (intended to
shear in an accident) connected the left and right lips of the battery
box to the frame to keep it from rattling.
In a serious crash, the entire bumper+battery box assembly could move
inward about 6" before the shock absorbers were completely crushed.
Further force would crush the battery box (and batteries). Even more
force would push the crushed mass into the front axle and start crushing
the frame and body.
Meanwhile, the other massive chunk, the battery box on the opposite end
of the vehicle, can move forward on its shock absorbers. Being "softly"
mounted, it will produce less force because it has a longer distance to
decellerate. If it were rigidly mounted, the force would be higher and
it could act as a "hammer" to crush the body in between the two massive
battery boxes.
They crash-tested the ComutaVan in 1980, and it passed. I saw pictures
after a 45 mph fixed-barrier frontal crash. The car had been 'shortened'
about 12". The bumper was flattened, the three shock absorbers were
crushed from 6" down to about 2", and the front axle was bent. The
battery box was deformed, and the front 3 batteries were crushed, but
all the pieces were contained in the battery box. The acid leaked out
the weep hole in the bottom over a period of about 30 minutes. The
plastic body was deformed, but didn't break.
> We must also consider the headlights/radiator.
(What radiator? :-)
The ComutaVan headlights were mounted almost 3 feet behind the front
bumper. They weren't affected by the above crash.
> If you placed 600 pounds or less up front and some more towards
> the rear, you could use this active ballast to trim your car for
> the best weight distribution.
As others pointed out, this was the weak point of the ComutaVan design.
They had a very light, very short wheelbase vehicle with a lot of its
weight concentrated in the extreme front and rear. Badly chosen springs
and shocks aggrivated the problem. It had an unpleasant fore-aft
pitching oscillation when going over bumps at the wrong speeds.
Overall, I think the idea is good, but their implementation was flawed.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
