EV Digest 4854
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Lift-off at 6:00 Tonight at PIR!
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: The 'range issue' (long)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Walmart heater cores, how to wire in series?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: window defrost
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: More about tires
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Getting permission to recharge at work (WAS The 'range issue' (long))
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EV Insurance
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Getting permission to recharge at work (WAS The 'range issue'
(long))
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Drivetrain resistance (200A draw @ 30mph - is this normal)?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Getting permission to recharge at work (WAS The 'range issue' (long))
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Getting permission to recharge at work (WAS The 'range issue' (long))
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: EV parts on EBay
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: The 'range issue' (looong)
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Getting permission to recharge at work (WAS The 'range issue' (long))
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: The 'range issue'
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV Insurance
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Curtis and KSI
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Drivetrain resistance (200A draw @ 30mph - is this normal)?
by "Mueller, Craig M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Getting permission to recharge at work (WAS The 'range issue' (long))
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: The 'range issue' (long) but fun to read what you might expect...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Getting permission to recharge at work (WAS The 'range issue' (long))
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: clutchless vw
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Roger calculated:
>7500RPM * 934.2 / 63360 = 110.6mph
Reverse and enter Johns trap speed, at 105mph * 63360 / 934.2 = 7121
RPM.<
Looks good to me. There may also be some growth of tire diameter as wheel
rpm increases towards the end of the strip. They aren't wrinkle wall
slicks, but I wouldn't be surprised if they gained a 1/2".
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 10/21/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pool, Ryan wrote:
> I've been told I can't charge at work because then my company would
> be providing me a benefit that they wouldn't be providing anyone
> else and that they wouldn't benefit from letting me charge.
There are always a hundred reasons to say "no". Usually, it's just the
easiest answer to give. The key is to find the right person to ask, and
the right question to ask to which he/she will find "yes" to be the
easiest answer.
When I worked at Honeywell, they put on a presentation for "earth day"
each year. They'd talk to the media about all the wonderful things the
company did to save energy (replacing light bulb with fluorescents,
encouraging employee carpooling, etc.). They'd plug their wonderful
products that people should buy to save energy, (like setback
thermostats, in Honeywell's case).
So, I asked the Earthday coordinator if they would like me to show off
my electric car. She said, "Yes, of course!" I said, "Then I need to use
an AC outlet to charge it." So she arranged with the facilities people
to let me use an outside outlet, conveniently located right near the
doors. So on earth day, I showed off my EV, gave ride-n-drive demos, and
even got a mention in the company newsletter.
And when earth day was over, I *still* had permission to use that AC
outlet. :-) No one was willing to risk going through the paperwork to
change "company policy" when there was no benefit to them personally.
When people would ask me how come I got a dedicated outlet (and a
parking place near the door), I just said, "It's not reserved for me --
anyone with an electric car can use it. Why don't you get one, too?"
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
> since I'm going to be running a 300+ volt pack, three in series
> should work fine, right?
Correct. You just have to be sure that each element has the same
airflow, since their resistance is *strongly* affected by temperature.
> If you look at the element, they have 5 connections across the top,
> we'll number them 1 through 5. If I understand it right, the tabs
> number 2 and 4 are the common tabs. They were connected together
> and wired right to one side of the power cord. 1 and 5 are probably
> energized at the same time for one heat range and tab 3 would be
> energized for the other heat range. Does this make sense?
Yes. It's quite simple. These things are just four power "resistors",
all in series:
1----/\/\/----2----/\/\/----3----/\/\/----4----/\/\/----5
For 120vac, you connect one side of the AC line to 1, 3, and 5; and the
other side to 2 and 4. This in effect wires all four resistors in
parallel.
For 240v, you connect one side of the AC line to 3, and the other side
to 1 and 5. This in effect wires them as two resistors in series, and
these two strings in parallel.
For your 300vdc pack, just connect it to 1 and 5 (all 4 resistors in
series). With your car's larger fan, you may well find that you are
getting more than 1500 watts of heat. Measure the current; 1500w / 300v
= 5 amps.
If you don't get 5 amps and want a little more heat, connect to 1 and 4
(or 2 and 5). This wires 3 resistors in series, and leaves one unused.
> I'd like to take advantage of the dual heat range.
You won't need it. You control temperature with fan speed. The resistors
to vary fan speed are already in place, and you won't have to mess with
high voltage DC switching. The AC versions of these heaters had a switch
to reconnect the heating elements only because they had a fixed-speed
fan.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mike golub wrote:
> Lee, In regards to that van that had the piece of plastic.
> What about your vision of the road? Did you have trouble seeing?
No; it was just a thin piece of storm window plastic. The plastic
actually improved visibility, since the window wasn't always fogged or
iced up! :-)
The ones you buy at the auto stores appear to be a piece of 1/32" thick
acrylic plastic, just thick enough to be semi-rigid, with little clear
sticky pads. You cut it with scissors to fit your window (if it's too
big), and stick it on the with pads. The pads are removable, if you need
to roll down the window or when summer arrives (sometime in June in
Minnesota :-)
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bill,
I just got done talking with my master mechanic about deflection and thrust
rates on tires, wheels and suspensions.
For a very light vehicle, you could get by with a 2 inch sidewall as long as
you don't drive over rough roads with potholes. The heaver the vehicle, the
wider the sidewall should be.
These low profile tires are normally used on high performance vehicles that
will corner better because of the stiff sidewalls, but the tire life is short
and the ride is harsh.
Lets say a wide wall tire is 28 inches in diameter and you want to install a
narrow wall tire to maintain that same diameter, than you would have to have a
22 inch wheel with 3 inch side walls.
The narrow wall tire has less deflection rated which you keep in the 0.25 inch
range which is easy for a light weight vehicle at low air pressure.
The more deflection you have, the more heat built up in the tire. The wider
side wall tires will budge more which increases at the end of life.
The heaver the car, the larger the diameter wheel is with a wide side wall
tire. Cadillac came out with there proto type wheel and tire that is 36 inches
in diameter with a side wall of 5 to 6 inches which looks narrow on this wheel.
The increase side wall gives more comfort ride.
The advantage is that the tire is light weight, but is on a larger diameter
wheel that may weigh more. Its doe not heat up as much as a wide side wall
tire at high speeds.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Dennis<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:34 AM
Subject: RE: More about tires
I've noticed a lot of new vehicles have tires with very short sidewalls. Is
there some advantage to this, or is it just some new trend that automakers
are putting out?
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:02 PM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: More about tires
----- Original Message -----
From: Roland Wiench<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: More about tires
Hello Nick,
The maximum deflection of a sidewall of a tire should not be more than 10%
of the height of the side wall. Lets say your side wall height is 5 inches
with no load on it while its air up to the maximum PSI rating on the side of
the tire. When the tire has its full load weight on it, the sidewall should
not be less than 4.5 inches in height which is a 0.5 inch deflection.
Its better to try to get a 0.625 to 0.75 inch deflection.
\
CORRECTION: This should be 0.385 to 0.25 inch deflection.
To check for the correct tire deflection:
1. Jack the car up so the tire is off the ground.
2. Air it up to the maximum load rating PSI that is listed on the tire.
3. Lower the car, so that the tire just touches the ground.
4. Measure the height of the sidewall to the ground.
5. Lower the full weight of the car on the ground.
6. Measure the sidewall height again.
Lets say that the height unload is 5 inches with a load rating of 65 PSI
When its loaded and reads 4.75 inches which is a 0.25 inch deflection or
5% of the height, than the tire size is correct for the weight you have.
This will be a firm ride.
On my EV, I'am running tires with a load rating of 2150 lbs @ 65 PSI
which I have a load of 2100 lbs on the rear wheels and 1400 lbs on the front
wheels.
So the tire is the correct size of where I have to air up the rears to the
maximum of 65 PSI which gives me a 0.5 inch deflection.
The front tires pressure would than be:
(1400 x 65)/2100 = 43 PSI for the same deflection.
These tires are 235/75/R15 nylon steel belted type.
The nylon steel belted is not good, they are not the Low Riding Resistance
type. When setting, they developed a flat spot especially during cold
weather.
The best tire I ever had was a Goodyear Polyglass 8 ply 2010 lbs @ 40 lbs
load rating. I got a rollout distance of 4 miles starting at 80 mph and
coasting down to a stop. The nylon steel belted type never got half this
roll out.
Roland
Its best to go to a
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Viera<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 7:27 PM
Subject: More about tires
Hi,
While we're talking about tires...
I've been looking for new tires for my Mazda truck, in hopes of lowering
its rolling resistance (the current tires absolutely suck and are about
to die) and preparing it for its near future hybridization and/or EV
conversion -- either way it will be gaining some weight ;-).
1. Is having too high of a load/pressure rating ever a problem? For
example, one of the tire models I'm looking at for my truck (Kumaho
Venture HT) can be purchased either with a 2335lb. @ 65PSI load rating
or 2680lb. @ 80PSI load rating. Seeing as how the two tires are
otherwise identical and are about the same price, is there any reason
why I shouldn't go ahead and get the 2680lb. @ 80PSI tires? The truck
currently weighs 3700lbs.
2. The former owner put larger-than-stock 255/70/R16 size tires on the
truck. They seem excessively wide to me at about 10.2" wide and 30.1" in
diameter. I'm considering going down to the 225/75/R16 size which would
bring the diameter down some to ~29.4" but notably decrease the width to
8.2". Supposedly the stock sizes for this truck were 225/70/R16 (~8.9"
wide), or 235/60/R16 (~9.6" wide) tires as an option, though I can't
verify this. Is there any reason why decreasing the tire width slightly
below that of stock would be a bad idea (i.e. unforeseen
handling/traction issues)???
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/<http://go.driveev.com/<http://go.driveev.com/<http://<http://go.driveev.com/<http://go.driveev.com/<http://go.driveev.com/<http://>
go.driveev.com/>>
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, this thread is getting very interesting. Perhaps if we put together
all of our ideas on how get permission (from cooperative or
non-cooperative employers) we could increase the availability of
charging locations.
Here are my first ideas:
1) If you work at a company that has fleet vehicles, talk to the fleet
vehicle manager. They are aware of many of the state/local advantages
to alternative fuel vehicles. (This has worked for me)
2) Talk to maintenance and facility people. They usually know where
the outlets are and often assign parking spaces too.
3) Get endorsements from the local chapter of the Asthma or American
Lung Association (or local equivalent) The ALA has been very supportive
of electric vehicles in Denver
4) Learn about potential tax advantages for installation of
"alternative fuel vehicle refueling stations" In Colorado there is a
large tax credit available to employers to install them. There is even
a larger credit if those refueling stations are available for public
use.
5) Do the calculations and offer to pay for your fuel. Use real
numbers and the actual electric rate your employer pays. Most people
think that will be $25 or more per week - $1,220 per year (that's what
they pay for their commuting fuel). When they find out you need less
than $2.00 per week for fuel, they may realize the cost is
insignificant. Maybe compare it to what it takes to run one of those
1500 W space heaters.
6) Take all the information you can find about the tons of pollutants
you are not dumping into their air, summarize how much CO, CO2, Nox etc
you avoid putting into the air over a year. Put it into a report.
Review it with your company medical or insurance contact. Get their
support.
7) Get a human interest article in your company newsletter. Be sure to
provide the newsletter with all the above information.
Finally take all of this information put it in a well written portfolio
and present it to a person that can make a real decision. The janitor,
The owner, the CEO, the CEO's spouse, whoever. Just don't mess with
people that can only say no (most of middle management). Walk them
through the portfolio and be prepared to discuss details if asked.
Good luck
Lynn Adams
My employer has installed a 240V outlet at each of our locations for me
to use. Neither is near the front door, but one is out of the weather
under the loading dock!
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Pool, Ryan
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:28 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: The 'range issue' (long)
We've been down that road. After volunteering all of that I was told
that allowing me to charge at work would amount to giving me a reserved
parking space which would also go against company policy.
I believe the people I spoke to were really reaching and grasping at
straws. I don't believe they were being honest with me, but until I can
find out their true reasoning for denying allowing me to charge I won't
really know why they are being dishonest.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: The 'range issue' (long)
On 10/25/05, Pool, Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And don't forget it also needs to be more reliably accessible! I've
> been told I can't charge at work because then my company would be
> providing me a benefit that they wouldn't be providing anyone else and
> that they wouldn't benefit from letting me charge. Until I can
> overcome that or reduce my range requirements I'm nervous about taking
> on building an EV.
A suggestion; offer to pay for the installation of the outlet,
electricity you use, plus a token monthly fee for the service. Then,
they're not providing you a "benefit" - it's a service, bought and paid
for. The company benefits through the payment, and if they want it
could be used as something interesting to put in the company newsletter,
or local press publicity.
I guess I'm pretty lucky in that my company agreed to do this for me.
But, persevere, and ask nicely, and you may get somewhere.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
Are there any particularly good companies for EV insurance?
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lynn,
What did you make your white boxes out of in the photos on
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html?
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adams, Lynn"
> See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John,
After I have assembly my motor and drivetrain, I did a roll out test to see how
much torque its takes to move the EV on flat smooth concrete floor.
Put the transmission in 1st gear and attach a inch pound torque wrench to a
bolt that screws into the input shaft of the motor. Set the torque wrench for
5 in.lbs. and see if its clicks. If it does than keep raising the torque until
is does not click anymore and starts moving the vehicle.
To give you some references so you can compare your EV with my EV:
My EV weight is 6890 lbs
Tires are at 65 PSI
Battery Pack at 180 volts at 260 AH
Battery charge to 233 volts or 7.76 volts for 6 volt battery or 15.53 volts per
12 volt battery. (is a equalization or balance charge)
All 30 each 6-volt batteries are all in with of 0.01 volts of each other.
Battery temperature at or about 80 degrees F.
Ambient air temperature at or about 70 degrees F.
No wind.
Level drive on smooth pavement.
Axil ratio is 5.57:1
1st gear overall ratio is 19.495:1
2nd gear overall ratio is 13.925:1
3rd gear ratio is 5.57:1
Full Synthetic Gear Oil
At 25 mph in 1st gear, the battery is 40 amps and motor is 75 amps
At 35 mph in 2nd gear, the battery is 60 amps and motor is 100 amps
At 50 mph in 3rd gear, the battery is 140 amps and motor is 200 amps
I can move my EV with 8 in.lbs. of torque in 1st gear.
12 in.lbs. of torque in 2nd gear.
30 in.lbs. of torque in 3rd gear.
If you are in that range or lower, than your mechanical should be ok.
If not, than the first thing to check out is your brake pads. Jack up the tire
off the ground and see if they will spin freely. My did not at first when I
install very thick brake pads. I just had to wear them it a little.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: John G. Lussmyer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: Drivetrain resistance (200A draw @ 30mph - is this normal)?
At 10:52 AM 10/25/2005, Mueller, Craig M wrote:
>I'm running a 1993 Daytona conversion, and have the suspicion that
>my drivetrain is causing undue resistance. My drive ammeter shows a
>draw of 150-200A at 30-35 mph (flat ground - good tire
>inflation/type). Is this expected for compact car conversions in
>general. From my research, I understand 75A is more in line with
>other's experiences.
The pack voltage makes a BIG difference. So, what voltage are you running at?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com<http://www.casadelgato.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great ideas Lynn!. Just one thing to add to item #3. In most locations the
American Lung Association is attached at the hip to the Clean Cities
organization which I believe rolls up under DOE somewhere. Clean Cities mostly
deals
with corporate and government fleets.
Mike B.
DEVC
Colorado
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good ideas. I should mention if nothing else employee retention is a benefit to
the employer. There was an article in the local paper not long ago about
alternative fuels use, which said that Honeywell has an open policy that they
will provide charging to any employee who drives an EV free of charge. This
benefits them by making it much less expensive for an employee to commute to
work and they are less likely to quit due to funding a commute. This saves the
employer the time and money to go out to find other employees and train them so
in the end it may end up being a money saving proposition. Of course not all
businesses are so keen to hold on to everyone as best as they can.
"Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Ok, this thread is getting very
interesting. Perhaps if we put together
all of our ideas on how get permission (from cooperative or
non-cooperative employers) we could increase the availability of
charging locations.
Here are my first ideas:
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This EBay item (8009100421) didn't reach the reserve, and since I had asked
the seller a few questions about, he's contacted me to see if I'm interested
in it. The parts are from a VW conversion kit, possibly from ElectoAuto.
They were used in an actual VW for a short period of time, then removed.
If anyone's interested in some of the parts, contact me offline if you'd
like to split the cost with me.
Bill Dennis
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A first year marketing student will tell you if you want to be
competitive you have to offer something the other guy can't.
When compared to an ICE car an EV offers very little value to a
consumer. The only benefit to an EV is lifecycle costs and
environmental benefits, and most consumers do not rate those highly in
their purchasing. In turn the limitations of range and cost factor
heavily in a buyer's mind.
So I see two ways an EV company could successfully enter the market:
1. Cost... price is a big factor for buyers. The Chinese have a rising
demand for vehicles, and more coal than oil. A Chinese company could
use their home markets to develop an inexpensive EV, and then release it
into the US. Auto dealers would probably not be interested in this
cheap car with low profit potential (think Daewoo and Yugo). Instead
the car could be sold thru retailers that know how to work with razor
thin margins. If it only went 50 miles to the charge and 50mph, but you
could buy it at Wal-mart for half the price of a gas car would you
accept the tradeoffs? Sell a few thousand to a million units and now
you have a large enough market to bootstrap LiOH, and the cars can
gradually work upmarket until they can compete directly with gas.
2. Unique market - The Auto industry has done little revolutionary in
100 years. Cars still have 4 wheels, windows, sheet metal etc. EV's
have a much smaller drive train, and the battery can be made into almost
any shape imaginable. Americans value a high seating position, how
about a car where you stand up.. maybe with two wheels.. a faster,
enclosed Segway. "Traveling phonebooth" Think of the parking
potential.. as the Tango and millions of forklefts can prove, the
ability to use your batteries as a low CG counterweight is a great
benefit.
Maybe combine the two and create a low cost car for teens. Make the
body panels plastic and replaceable like cellphones to allow the style
to change or accident damage to be cheaply repaired.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:24:37 -0600, "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>2) Talk to maintenance and facility people. They usually know where
>the outlets are and often assign parking spaces too.
This is pretty close to the Admiral Grace Hooper philosophy: It is
much easier to beg forgiveness than to get permission. I'd just start
using an outlet if it was handy and didn't require running a cord
across a pedestrian walkway and deal with any objection as it
develops.
>3) Get endorsements from the local chapter of the Asthma or American
>Lung Association (or local equivalent) The ALA has been very supportive
>of electric vehicles in Denver
A good way to set off a manager's BS alarm. Several bad ingredients
here. Appearance of outside influence in company affairs and
indications of ecofreakism or save-the-world-ism, neither of which are
particularly welcome in a corporate environment. Sell the recharging
as a benefit to you, the loyal company employee.
>5) Do the calculations and offer to pay for your fuel. Use real
>numbers and the actual electric rate your employer pays. Most people
>think that will be $25 or more per week - $1,220 per year (that's what
>they pay for their commuting fuel). When they find out you need less
>than $2.00 per week for fuel, they may realize the cost is
>insignificant. Maybe compare it to what it takes to run one of those
>1500 W space heaters.
Yes. I suggest buying a $35 power meter and actually measuring the
energy consumption for charging the car over, say, a week. Showing
that it is cheaper than those space heaters that all the chix seem to
have under their desks should have a significant impact.
>6) Take all the information you can find about the tons of pollutants
>you are not dumping into their air, summarize how much CO, CO2, Nox etc
>you avoid putting into the air over a year. Put it into a report.
>Review it with your company medical or insurance contact. Get their
>support.
No. See above. Because the negative impact of a so-called
whistle-blower can be so huge, large corps are VERY sensitive to
anything that might indicate a predisposition to tattle or to support
radical causes. Such a presentation of propaganda could well get you
tagged as a potential troublemaker and greatly limit your future.
Then there is the matter that any document claiming that EVs are
cleaner than modern gas cars is simply false. Especially until
nuclear becomes the predominant source for electricity. A manager
with some technical competence will quickly recognize the fiction
presented as truth. That could have a very negative career impact.
>Finally take all of this information put it in a well written portfolio
>and present it to a person that can make a real decision. The janitor,
>The owner, the CEO, the CEO's spouse, whoever. Just don't mess with
>people that can only say no (most of middle management). Walk them
>through the portfolio and be prepared to discuss details if asked.
I'd be really careful with that. Large corps (and some small ones)
have rigidly defined chains of command, even if the org chart doesn't
say so. Going outside the chain of command is not a career-enhancing
move in these environments. This is a lesson I learned the hard way,
more than once, it seems.
Working through the chain of command, I'd still leave off the
eco-whacky stuff and instead present a simple, direct case for the
outlet as a benefit to you. Do NOT write an epistle!! A survey I
read in a business mag said that the average business correspondence
gets perhaps 15 seconds to make its case.
That used to be about right for me when I was in upper management. I'd
scan the first sentence or two of the first few paragraphs. If my
attention wasn't snagged, the document met either the round file or
the morgue (where we kept potentially legally important documents),
depending on the contents. Even if a document snagged my attention,
if it didn't have to do directly with the bottom line, it got maybe a
minute or two.
If at all possible, I'd ask for a face-to-face meeting with the
decision-maker. You'll get much more time that way. Get your facts
in a row so that it takes no more than 10 minutes to make your case.
Do all the homework ahead of time. Structure your case to be
cost-neutral to the company. So as to avoid the appearance of special
treatment, try to find a way to charge without having to always have
the "best" parking. If the lot is lit, perhaps an outlet could be
attached to a lighting stand. If so, volunteer to take a spot out in
the "north 40" so that others won't bitch about your special
treatment. Investigate and determine the feasibility ahead of time.
Be prepared to pay for all the costs involved. Make it easy to say
YES.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm fortunate enough to have a public charging
station at my work. It's kind of funny. The company
has "on lab" parking as a perk for carpoolers and
managers. As a driver of an "alternative fueled
vehicle" I'm elligable to park on lab. I can't charge
on lab as the company can't pay for my fuel. The city
on the other hand has installed two charging stations
in the large off lab parking lot.
My truck will easily do a RT on a single charge,
which is fortunate. Twice the Avcon station shut down
on it's own giving me a partial charge, and last week
my charger died shortly after I plugged in. Just
something to keep in mind if you're depending on that
mid trip charge to make it home.
TiM
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you are over 50 years old and belong to AARP you can get really cheap
insurance from the Hartford Company for about $300.00 to $500.00 a year.
If you cannot get Hartford, then try the Hagerty Classic Car Insurance. There
rates are a flat yearly fee of $225.00 per $10,000.00 for a Exotic custom car.
All they want to know if it's a standard classic, custom or exotic custom, how
much you want to insure it for, and your age and State.
With them you could insured a exotic custom car for $25,000.00 for $562.50 a
year.
Go to there WEB site by just typing Hagerty Classic Car Insurance.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Austin<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EVList<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:20 PM
Subject: EV Insurance
Hello,
Are there any particularly good companies for EV insurance?
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When the input to a Curtis 1231C's KSI input is switched off, does the
controller stop sending current through the throttle leads? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>The pack voltage makes a BIG difference. So, what voltage are you
running >at?
Sorry for the omission - here are some specs...
120V system (20 T-105's)
FB1-4001 Motor
Curtis 1221B-7401 controller
1993 Daytona standard weight - 2800lbs (I estimate the converted weight
is around 3200lbs)
Please pass along rough estimates(with some general details).
Thanks,
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: John G. Lussmyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Drivetrain resistance (200A draw @ 30mph - is this normal)?
At 10:52 AM 10/25/2005, Mueller, Craig M wrote:
>I'm running a 1993 Daytona conversion, and have the suspicion that
>my drivetrain is causing undue resistance. My drive ammeter shows a
>draw of 150-200A at 30-35 mph (flat ground - good tire
>inflation/type). Is this expected for compact car conversions in
>general. From my research, I understand 75A is more in line with
>other's experiences.
The pack voltage makes a BIG difference. So, what voltage are you
running at?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
""I'd be really careful with that. Large corps (and
some small ones)
have rigidly defined chains of command, even if the
org chart doesn't
say so. Going outside the chain of command is not a
career-enhancing
move in these environments. This is a lesson I
learned the hard way,
more than once, it seems."""
John is correct in most cases, that's why you need to
know your target audience. The president of our
division (600 million $ division) is technically sharp
and personable. Many times while visiting the
division (usually a couple days every other week), the
president will walk through the building and greet
some of the employees. During one of his walk
throughs soon after getting my EV, I asked him if I
could charge my electric van. He said 'sure, I think
it's great that you have an EV, in fact you can use my
designated spot by the garage'. He didn't actually
use this spot, but he offered since it was close to an
outlet.
My view was not trying to 'bypass' the VP of
engineering or VP of the division, it was saving them
the trouble of asking 'if I give him an EV charging
spot I'll have to answer to the President if he asks'
Even if there is no risk, they may decline just to
avoid the question.
You may not have upper level management like this, or
you may need to figure out who might be the most
receptive to EV charging without stepping on any toes.
Good luck!
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ralph (and others),
While I share your optimism about employer being enthusiastic
about as little as putting a single outlet, my experience was
a failure to convince them. For fun reading, here is a copy of
my correspondence with my former company facility dept who makes
is practically impossible to make happen. Read through what I had
to do in order to put outlets outside. Here is last reply I got
before I dropped the idea.
=============================================================
Victor,
A CAR is a capital acquisition request that needs to be filled out and
presented
to the CAC (capital acquisition committee). The CAC includes Joe Z,
Norm, Ken
Frost, etc.
You really need to work through your manager on these items. The funding
for a
project like this does not come from the Facilities or any other expense
budget,
it is a capital project and requires capital funding. It can be presented by
yourself, EHS or any person / organization that feels the project is
worthwhile.
The CAR form will require justification, cost estimates, alternatives,
and may
require a net present value estimate over 10 years (including the cost
of the
electricity, maintenance, etc. that LSI will incur). Safety is a big
concern with
this project, EHS and Engineering will need to approve the scope as well.
No work can begin on the FWO until funding has been secured. If you
manager will
approve some expense funds from his/her expense budget, the estimate and
some
preliminary engineering work can be done by the Facilities Projects
department as
part of the FWO.
Regards,
Jim
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Jim, Thanks for reply,
>
> This is the very first time I hear that the problem is with my car
was that
> I built it as own home project. The reality is:
>
> 1. This isn't just for me, it's for anybody with electric cars willing
> to re-charge on the parking lot and power installations should be
> part of the parking lot (just like light poles are), and thus funds come
> from the same budget as the funds for the parking lot itself.
>
> 2. My car is converted from regular gasoline powered, but the charger
> is commercial off shelf unit sold for that purpose and UL approved as
> any other electrical equipment. Having Electrical Engineering background
> I've replaced it with my design (lighter and smaller, the same GFI
and safety
> features) which I use since 1995 charging at home and at my former
company's
> parking lot without any problems. However in case I won't be permitted to
> use my unit, I have no problem switching back to commercial charger I
still
> have.
> BTW, this onboard charger also has non inductive interface, just a 120VAC
> plug since designed with ordinary home garage in mind. As far as I know,
> there is no legal requirement to have inductive interface, it's just
safest
> and
> most convenient (and expensive) one.
>
> In my case either kind will draw 10-12A max. @ 120VAC, charging time
> at that rate is 3 hrs, then the current gradually reduced to a
trickle 500 mA.
>
> Actually, LSI can take credit for supporting clean air actions by
doing this!
> A simple conduit shouldn't cost a lot while exposure and publicity
looks good,
>
> so I hope approval will not have many obstacles...
>
> What other info can I provide?
> What is a CAC?
>
> Mean time I'll fill out the form you've mentioned.
>
> THanks, Victor
>
> Jim Swier wrote:
>
> > Victor,
> >
> > I believe the issue was that your car is a home built unit, was not UL
> > listed and did not utilize an inductive charging system. In any
case you
> > need to fill out an FWO and have your manager sign it approving the
> > funding. Include all the specifics about your car's requirements so
that
> > Safety and Engineering can evaluate the project. The FWO forms are
outside
> > of Bill Robb's cube on the east side of the second floor. You will also
> > need to fill out a CAR and submit the project to CAC? I see this as a
> > capital project that needs EVP approval.
> >
> > There are also a lot of other issues that need to be considered
before we
> > proceed with this project.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> >
> > > Jim,
> > >
> > > I need to place a work request to install a gang of 120VAC/240VAC
> > > outlets in some place on the parking lot so an electric car's
chargers
> > > can be plugged in. I've mentioned this to Norm and he suggested me
> > > to contact you. Please let me know what specific info do you need,
> > > and reply with instructions for me on how to proceed here.
> > >
> > > I've mentioned this subject to facilities first time close to a year
> > > ago,
> > > it was forgotten as low priority item. Now this Item is on my
"Achieve"
> > > goal for reducing air pollution.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thanks,
> > > _____________________
> > > Victor Tikhonov
> > > LSI Logic
> > > Product Engineering
> > > Phone: 503-618-4414
> > > _____________________
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Ralph Merwin wrote:
Pool, Ryan writes:
And don't forget it also needs to be more reliably accessible! I've been
told I can't charge at work because then my company would be providing me
a benefit that they wouldn't be providing anyone else and that they wouldn't
benefit from letting me charge. Until I can overcome that or reduce my
range requirements I'm nervous about taking on building an EV.
Ryan,
You could suggest to your employer that they have a standard policy that
provides charging to anyone with an electric vehicle. Then it's a benefit
available to everyone. Some employees will use it, others won't.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 05:33:44PM -0400, Neon John wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:24:37 -0600, "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >6) Take all the information you can find about the tons of pollutants
> >you are not dumping into their air, summarize how much CO, CO2, Nox etc
> >you avoid putting into the air over a year. Put it into a report.
> >Review it with your company medical or insurance contact. Get their
> >support.
<..snip..>
>
> Then there is the matter that any document claiming that EVs are
> cleaner than modern gas cars is simply false. Especially until
> nuclear becomes the predominant source for electricity. A manager
> with some technical competence will quickly recognize the fiction
> presented as truth.
Is this true?
I though that even with 100% coal power, EVs were cleaner by almost
any measure.
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John in Tucson and All,
Although I have a clutch in my truck, I don't use it to shift as it's there
for total melt-down emergency stopping only, and to handle the drivetrain
hammering! I instead use my poor-man's regenerative braking system. This
consists of a large 12V car alternator wired to a three-phase full-wave
bridge rectifier and belted to a magnetic clutch on the tail shaft of the
traction motor. This was a kit that the now defunct Solar Car Corp in
Florida sold in the early '90's and was originally on our RX-7. I added a
three position switch on the truck's stick shift so I can choose between
the alternator's field (and magnetic clutch) coming on with the brake light
switch, not at all, or when I shift, which makes for fast shifting. To down
shift I rev the motor a bit and hit the regen switch to slow down as
needed. As Jimmy said, you don't need a clutch to shift, but it sometimes
makes for slow shifting depending on the transmission, so the alternator
might be another option.
Hope this helps,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:49:07 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>John,
>Really, you don't need a clutch AC or DC. I
>drove/raced my Ghia (DC) with no clutch to save the
>weight of the whole mechanism. On the road I just
>left it in 2nd even from a stop, this is a good gear
>for around town, I rarely used 3rd. If you want to
>shift you "double accelerate" (to syncro the motor to
>the trany output), they use to call it double clutch
>before syncro tranys. When you get good, its not bad
>upshifting, downshifting is harder but if your
>stopping don't downshift until you've stopped (this is
>good practice in an ICEmobile also).
>When you need to shift in reverse your stopped anyway
>- no problem. Your friend will have a clutch but if
>someone wanted to eliminate it, the coupler is simple,
>just use a keyed motor coupler and bolt on an old
>clutch hub for the spline.
>
>The most difficult skill is patience - take your time
>and let the syncros do the work. A clutch is easier
>but if you can't use one its not so bad without a
>clutch.
>
>If you have the bucks - Victor is right, go AC direct
>drive, regen is great.
>
>Jimmy
>
>--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> If it is preferred to drive without clutch as is
>> best for your friend,
>> an AC setup may be ideal. No gear switching needed
>> at all, so no clutch
>> necessary as well. Does not need any extra
>> contactors to go
>> in reverse either.
>>
>> Moreover, you can easily set it up off-throttle
>> regen so that 95%
>> of the time she won't have a need to touch the brake
>> pedal either.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> john wrote:
>> > A friend wants me to build her a VW bug
>> conversion. Problem is she
>> > has one leg in a brace and can't use the clutch.
>> I know she could go
>> > clutchless and put into gear before taking off but
>> I was wondering if
>> > a set up like my Citicar would work on a VW?
>> Using contactors for
>> > forward and reverse? Any thoughts would be
>> welcomed.
>> >
>> > John in Tucson.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
