EV Digest 4884
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 220/240 Volt Kill-A-Watt Meter
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: BlacklightPower.com
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 220/240 Volt Kill-A-Watt Meter
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Bohan EV conversion Kit. 72vdc Impressive range claims.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Smart Utility Meter
by Gordon G Schaeffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT: Is this nonsense? or in use?
by "gail donaldson lucas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: newbie
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: OT: Is this nonsense? or in use?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Prius pack on eBay
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Li-ion construction videos
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Performance cars, speed+ acceleration
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) multimeter
by Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: OT: Is this nonsense? or in use?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 220/240 Volt Kill-A-Watt Meter
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: 220/240 Volt Kill-A-Watt Meter
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Bohan EV conversion Kit. 72vdc Impressive range claims.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Bohan EV conversion Kit
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Cwarman Re: Your S10 Chevy project for sale
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Smart Utility Meter
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: newbie
by Stan Helton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re:Current Eliminator Dragster news
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: multimeter
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Only 8 made in 1960?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
** Reply to message from "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Sat, 05 Nov 2005
11:15:56 -0500
> Practically speaking, I've used a few 240
> volt overseas appliances here with no ill effects that I've observed.
I brought all my shop tools from Germany when I moved back to Colorado. I use
all of them on the 220 volt power here. They're still going strong after 14
years. And with the funny plugs on them, nobody ever asks to borrow them.
Dale Curren
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--- Begin Message ---
So, I went and asked some friends on a list who are actually involved
in physics and research.
Here are their comments:
John Lussmyer writes:
This one turned up on the EV list, and people are betting that it's Yet
Another Scam...
IIRC, we talked about it here a while back. It looks like they've
published some new papers in the last couple of years, and are
(possibly) getting them into more or less reputable journals, so they
may have found something interesting, even if their explanation is
nonsense. I do notice that the most provocative paper titles are
listed as "preprints" suggesting that they were submitted but not
accepted for publication.
The fundamental problem with this concept (aside from the fact that
having fractional quantum states for hydrogen atoms would grossly
violate conventional quantum mechanics and QED) is that if there were
any lower-energy state for hydrogen atoms than the ground state, a
sizeable fraction of the hydrogen in the universe would be in the
lower-energy state, and there would be all sorts of evidence for it
in everything from chemistry to astrophysics.
As I said last time around, I'd give this one a decent chance of not
being a scam, but instead being a case of honest crackpottery --
i.e., the folks involved have observed some effects they couldn't
explain, and invented a new physics to explain them, rather than
assuming they were just making some kind of mistake. Having done
that, they're too emotionally invested to admit, even to themselves,
that they're wrong, so they're sure that if they can just get someone
to put serious money into developing the concept into practical
technology (while, of course, they retain key rights), they'll be
able to change the world. See "Drive, Dean" "Fusion, Cold" and many
similar cases.
and a reply to that...
And that's where the scammery comes in. They've been discovered by a
promoter who knows damn well that they are crackpots but intends to use
them to shake money out of gullible investors.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---
On 11/5/05, Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I have been playing with a handy little meter I picked up on eBay few
> months back. They have been mentioned on the list before, I
> think. It is called a Kill-A-Watt. There is picture of one on the web at:
>
> http://www.supermediastore.com/kilwateldet1.html?WT.mc_id=AdWordsKillaWattkillawatt&WT.srch=1
>
> (no that isn't who I bought it from, so this is not an endorsement of
> that retailer.)
>
> Now, my question, which should probably be for our European or
> Australian members. Have you seen a similar product in your area
> that can handle 220/240? If so, and it would accept 60 cycle AC,
> then it sure would be nice for those using 220/240 volt chargers,
> providing the current isn't too high. Yes, adapters would be needed,
> but that isn't a show stopper.
Hi Mike, we sell them here: http://www.sci-scotland.org.uk/shop.html
(scroll down to the bottom). There is nothing about whether it will
work on 60Hz, but I don't see why not (I assume it uses a crystal
timebase for the counter). I use one to meter my EV's charger which
takes the full 13A allowed. Seems quite accurate and the cost display
is handy. Please ask for shipping charge before you order one to the
US.
If that won't do the job, we also have 100A digital "consumer meters"
which are about £40.
Regards
Evan
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--- Begin Message ---
Over a decade ago a member of the nations largest electric auto
association, Bruce Mckasky, won the National Range and endurance Rally 5
years in a row. Mackasky competed against new high-end series motors with
advanced transistorized controllers and year after year brought them down to
defeat. Each year his vehicle would beat his past record until he finally
reached a range of 127.5 miles on a single charge. Mckasky's vehicle was a
simple VW based dunebuggy powered by an aircraft generator. His adapter
plate was identical to the one auctioned in this kit and he used the same
two-voltage step relay control scheme. Could a 72vdc sub 2000 pound car do
this for the average EV'er. I have friends interested in inexpensive simple
Ev's. Seems to me this would be a big version of a Citicar. Watt do you
guys think???? I want a test drive. Lawrence Rhodes......
Electric Vehicle Conversion EV Auto Car Kit
Proven Technology at an Affordable Price
This electric car conversion kit is for VW rear transaxile based vehicles.
It is perfect for light vehicles like VW bugs and kit cars based on the VW
pan. The kit comes with a powerful, peak 30 HP, shunt motor that prevents
possible motor overspeeding and a fully functional clutch. This lets you use
a full range of gears in the transaxile. This kit has two main assemblies: A
motor/adapter plate/cooling fan that is easily mounted to the VW transaxile
with four bolts. The second assembly is the control board populated with the
heavy-duty mil spec power relays and other control electronics.
Traction Motor Assembly
The key to this kit is a 400 Amp Mil Spec Aircraft Quality starter
generator. Because this motor was designed to be both a starter and a
generator, you can achieve practical regenerative breaking levels that are
not possible with a series motor. The aircraft generator does this because
it is a shunt motor. When stopping or going down hill you put energy back
into the batteries. Using regenerative breaking for down hill grades also
provides a huge safety advantage over cars that have only hydraulic breaks.
This is especially true when you carry the heavy batteries used in EVs.
Aircraft generators have another advantage because they are light. Designed
to work in an aircraft these aviation starters give you one of the best
"punch for motor pounds" of any traction motor used today. These generators
are cooled with an external fan so even when you are lugging the motor you
get maximum airflow at all times. Aircraft motors have an amazing high upper
RPM. At 72 volts an aircraft generator achieves 7,200 RPM. These motors can
reach 10,000 to 12,000 RPM for short periods of time. Much of this high RPM
capability comes from the Mil Spec steel wrapped armature.
At the heart of the kit is an elegantly engineered aluminum adapter plate
(some plates are free of manufacturers logo). This plate interfaces aircraft
propulsion technology to a rear wheel drive VW transaxile. At the center of
the adapter plate are two massive bearings that hold the center core hub.
This hub supports a lightened flywheel, pressure plate and clutch assembly.
The use of a clutch with a shunt motor allows for a smooth transition from
one incremental speed to another. Since shunt motors won't over speed and
run away when running freely the clutch also provides an additional
emergency disconnect, a valuable safety feature. For the interface to the
shunt motor the adapter plate has a standard 6-inch bolt circle and a
7/8-inch female spline.
The Control Board Assembly
The second Assembly, (the control board), taps the battery and gives you
two-step voltage speed control. This gives you a high speed and a low speed
for each gear you could be in. The series of incremental speed settings
gives you exactly the same feeling as riding in a high performance gas
powered sports car. Unlike transistorized controllers, using relays with a
shunt motor gives you automatic regen without any additional hardware. Also,
relays are a more forgiving technology in case of controller failure.
Transistorized controllers can rack up over $900.00 in transistor
replacement costs in milliseconds. The control board consists of four
massive 400 amp contactors, three of which provide Series/Parallel control
of your main battery banks and one as a on/off "Safety" relay. This system
gives you a two step voltage or power level for each mechanical gear you are
in. The single main on/off power relay insures the ability to shut the
system down for any eventuality. Mounted on the control board is also a
heavily heat sunk charge bypass diode and the 12 volt control unit.
Ease of Assembly
Both the traction motor and control board Assemblies come ready to hookup.
The only major things you need to add are traction batteries. The batteries
I recommend are 6 volt, deep discharge, lead-acid golf cart batteries. At
many locations in the country you can still buy used golf cart batteries at
little more than their core recycle value.
All the components provided come complete with terminal ends that are ready
to be crimped to common "00" welding cable that you can get at any welding
supply store. You need to provide the type of terminal ends that match your
type of battery posts. This depends on what style battery you decide to use.
You'll also need some light gauge instrumentation wire that you can get
inexpensively at any auto supply store. All terminal ends are clearly
labeled so you can cross reference them to the system schematic provided. It
is as simple as putting tab "A" into slot "B"
Relays Verses Transistorized Control
As a professional consultant in both EV propulsion for on-road, and marine
applications, I have worked extensively with both types of control
technologies. For the over 30 years I have worked in the EV field, I have
found no strong argument against relay control. Relays are cheaper, more
reliable, easy to fix, and more efficient in operation. A relay does not
have the voltage drop that is inherent in all semiconductor devices like a
transistor. Over a decade ago a member of the nations largest electric auto
association, Bruce Mckasky, won the National Range and endurance Rally 5
years in a row. Mackasky competed against new high-end series motors with
advanced transistorized controllers and year after year brought them down to
defeat. Each year his vehicle would beat his past record until he finally
reached a range of 127.5 miles on a single charge. Mckasky's vehicle was a
simple VW based dunebuggy powered by an aircraft generator. His adapter
plate was identical to the one auctioned in this kit and he used the same
two-voltage step relay control scheme. The bottom line is just because
something is new, does not automatically make it better. When you consider
that some "bleeding edge" EV kits can cost between $7,000.00 to $9,000.00 a
classic electro mechanical system looks pretty good.
Kit Content Listing
Traction Motor Assembly
a.. Shunt wound traction motor.
b.. Shunt motor cooling fan.
c.. Shunt motor anti arch diode.
d.. Cooling fan adapter and hookup hose.
e.. Propulsion motor adapter plate for VW rear transaxile type vehicle.
f.. Adapter plate center core hub and bearings.
g.. Light weight flywheel, pressure plate and clutch disk.
h.. VW Pilot shaft bearing.
Control Plate Assembly
a.. Main series/parallel 400 amp voltage stepping power contactor array.
b.. Single pole single throw main on / off Safety power relay.
c.. 500 Amp 50 mv shunt.
d.. Charge bypass diode.
e.. 12 Volt Control Unit. Interfaces cars existing 12 volt electrical
system with high voltage main pack power control relays.
Separately Mounted Components, etc
a.. Main Volt Meter.
b.. Main Amp Meter.
c.. Main "off-on-on" speed / voltage control switch.
d.. On-board 72 Volt primary and opportunity battery charger system. 120
VAC input. 72 VDC output.
e.. Easy to follow electrical schematic of system.
Those interested in learning more about this Shunt Motor Relay Controlled
kit are encouraged to visit our "Bearcat FAQ Guide" sight on the Bearcat
Propulsion System or feel free to visit our:
Bohan Design Web Sight
For additional shipping cost information please E-mail me your full shipping
address including Zip code and a day time contact Telephone number. Buyer
pay's shipping. Shipments will be sent ether Federal Express, UPS ground, or
through the US Post Office, whichever is best based on shipping location and
packaging requirements. All payments to be made in US dollars. Purchases
within the US to be paid by Cashier Check or Money Order, Purchases outside
the US to be made by International Money Order. Please allow 60 days from
posting of check for final test, shipping crate fabrication and handling.
All illustrations are of past kits, cosmetic differences can exist from kit
to kit. E-Mails should be sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Thank you for viewing my auction, Kurt Bohan.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4585792149
here is the direct url.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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HSC Electronic Supply www.halted.com 1-800442-5833 has listed HSC#20789
$29.95
Multifunction Electronic Utility Meter 7inch by 11 inch, new, indicates
time of use, total harmonic distortion, per phase watts, VAR, Amps,
Volts. This looks like a great testing device for charger development.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My latest Gaiam catalog is advertising clocks and calculators that run on
water. Would this be an application of the new energy source being
discussed?
Gail
Water-Powered Clock or Calculator New
You won't ever have to buy any batteries or plug in any cords to use this
LCD clock or calculator. Both work using nothing more than ordinary water.
The secret is a patented revolution in fuel cell technology that harnesses
the energy of water molecules to provide a futuristic stream of
pollution-free electrical current. Just pull out the two tiny reservoir
tubes from underneath the clock's sleek arch, fill them from your tap, and
(amazingly!) you'll have enough power for two months of operation. China.
http://www.gaiam.com/retail/gai_content/shop/gai_ShopCatalogDisplay.asp?cata
log%5Fname=realgoodsfall05
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Stan, and welcome oto the list.
Your cost is realistic, and then some. Your range
is realistic, especially if you get to charge at work.
Mike Brown at ElectroAuto.com is _somewhat_ close to
you. He specializes in Rabbit conversions; ie Rabbit
truck.
We all stay away from solar panels, because
whatever you gain, you'll lose in aerodynamics. The
fact is, you might get enough surface area on your
roof for 150W maximum, but you'll be pulling 300
watt/hrs. per mile. So it's just not worth it. Stick
them on a roof, and use it to charge. (;-p
If you choose a Civic conversion instead, check
out the web page.
peace,
--- Stan Helton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I am a newbie to this list and EVs in general. I am
> determined to own one by this time next year. I am
> interested in purchasing or building a pickup truck
> conversion. IS there a place in the east SF Bay
> area that does conversions?
>
> My neighbor is really handy with cars and will help
> me with the conversion. He builds race cars, so I
> am sure he has everything we need. To get the ICE
> out anyway...
>
> Here's a question... My commute is about 20 miles
> each way. There is a significant hill going out,
> and I need highway speed. Am I going to be able to
> use this for commuting with lead acid batteries? I
> understand that there are batteries out there that
> will increase range, but are probably cost
> prohibitive. I am hoping to do this in the
> $10,000-12,000 range.
>
> I haven't seen any info on the web about adding a
> solar panel to increase range, etc. Is the weight
> trade-off too much? My truck will get lots of sun
> while I am sitting at work, so I thought it could
> give me enough juice to get back home.
>
> Stan
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in
> one click.
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nonsense
Phil
From: "gail donaldson lucas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: OT: Is this nonsense? or in use?
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 09:18:19 -0800
My latest Gaiam catalog is advertising clocks and calculators that run on
water. Would this be an application of the new energy source being
discussed?
Gail
Water-Powered Clock or Calculator New
You won't ever have to buy any batteries or plug in any cords to use this
LCD clock or calculator. Both work using nothing more than ordinary water.
The secret is a patented revolution in fuel cell technology that harnesses
the energy of water molecules to provide a futuristic stream of
pollution-free electrical current. Just pull out the two tiny reservoir
tubes from underneath the clock's sleek arch, fill them from your tap, and
(amazingly!) you'll have enough power for two months of operation. China.
http://www.gaiam.com/retail/gai_content/shop/gai_ShopCatalogDisplay.asp?cata
log%5Fname=realgoodsfall05
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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I have seen prices between 400 and 600 on sold 2001-2003 batteries.
I know some have 10 or more lying around, to be used for ....?
BTW I don't know many Prius' that had less than 10k miles, though
I bought mine at 12k Salvaged, but this was in Jan 2004.
My battery is still in full use in my rebuilt 2002, now with 26k miles and
counting.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:18 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Prius pack on eBay
Starting bid is $299 - is this the going rate, or a real low start:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8011888954
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Couple of videos at the top of this page showing some of the equipment
and processes used:
http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/batterytech.asp
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Hello to John and All,
John Westlund wrote:
>Read this topic:http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic8987.html Videos,
>referenced stats, photos of races, you name it, this topic has it.
>(Note: White Zombie outdated in this topic. Zombie is pulling
>12.1-12.2 second 1/4 miles now)
Hey John, maybe you should get back to the guy on the above referenced
list that thinks 'Gas is still better for performance app's, how can
someone resist spanking a 15k electric Datsun 1200 with a 5k Datsun
240z+bbc (Big Block Chevy' Tell him that White Zombie absolutely spanked
a Datsun Z stuffed with a 350 Chev V8 shot with NOS! He ran a 12.6, but
it wasn't enough.... Tim blew his doors off in front of his V8 buddies,
with an electrifying 12.2!
Oh, and for the other guy that said, "It does take oil to keep the whole
shebang going though....we're not going to be able to continue as before
by switching to electricity."... let him know that other than having to
use a gas generator at the track because the track isn't yet geared for
electrics (this is changing for '06 PIR when they allow us to tap into
their grid and install 240 vac NEMA 1450's), my electric street legal
drag car gets all of its juice from a totally non-oil power source, zero
air pollution and foreign oil independent hydroelectric power generated
from the mighty Columbia River!
Have fun!
See Ya.....John Wayland
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I beginning to collect tools for my conversion project
(the whole reason for any project, right?). One is the
multimeter. Besides DCV to 2 or 3 decimal places, what
else do I need? Any recommended brands/models?
Thanks
Ken
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
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I had a watch like that when I was a kid!
It wasn't a fuel cell, just a battery. Had several tubes lined with
zinc and some other material electrodes. So the water is not the source
of electricity in any way, it's the electrolyte. The energy comes from
the electrochemical consumption of the plate materials like any other
battery. The same is true of the "potato clock" (another common project
is the "lemon battery"). The potato clock is a fraud... sad but true.
I remember seeing a guy who made like a 110v battery out of hundreds of
potatoes, ok that was cool somehow.
Danny
gail donaldson lucas wrote:
My latest Gaiam catalog is advertising clocks and calculators that run on
water. Would this be an application of the new energy source being
discussed?
Gail
Water-Powered Clock or Calculator New
You won't ever have to buy any batteries or plug in any cords to use this
LCD clock or calculator. Both work using nothing more than ordinary water.
The secret is a patented revolution in fuel cell technology that harnesses
the energy of water molecules to provide a futuristic stream of
pollution-free electrical current. Just pull out the two tiny reservoir
tubes from underneath the clock's sleek arch, fill them from your tap, and
(amazingly!) you'll have enough power for two months of operation. China.
http://www.gaiam.com/retail/gai_content/shop/gai_ShopCatalogDisplay.asp?cata
log%5Fname=realgoodsfall05
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
david you have it right and I am a master electrican
-------------- Original message --------------
> On 5 Nov 2005 at 2:58, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> > You might run into some wiring problems, considering that 220V in Europe
> > (and most of the rest of the world) is single phase, not two phase like it
> > is
> > in the states.
>
> As I understand it, and mind you I'm NOT a EE, US 240 volt household power
> is not two-phase. However, it is derived from a transformer that's center-
> tapped for 120 volts.
>
> The difference in configuration, which may or may not be significant in this
> case, is that in the states the center tap is grounded; in Europe there's no
> center tap and one side of the 240 is grounded. Theoretically this could
> have some safety implications. Practically speaking, I've used a few 240
> volt overseas appliances here with no ill effects that I've observed. You
> do have to watch out for the difference in frequency, though.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
> send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
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I got one on closeout from Radio Shack for like $10 or $20. Kill-A-Watt
is NEAT. Shows watts, voltamps, power factor, kilowatt hours consumed,
voltage, current, and frequency and seems to do it with accuracy. My PC
is currently running at 282 watts with a 0.73 power factor. I can't
believe such a do-it-all device could be had for such a ridiculously low
price. Measuing AC power is a bit of a tricky task not usually
achievable with cheapo electronics.
Danny
Mike Chancey wrote:
Hi folks,
I have been playing with a handy little meter I picked up on eBay few
months back. They have been mentioned on the list before, I think.
It is called a Kill-A-Watt. There is picture of one on the web at:
http://www.supermediastore.com/kilwateldet1.html?WT.mc_id=AdWordsKillaWattkillawatt&WT.srch=1
(no that isn't who I bought it from, so this is not an endorsement of
that retailer.)
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Hey this sounds a lot like my first Ev drive train.
I upgraded to a AvDC 8 incher and a Curtis in about '96 and almost doubled
my mileage.
Those old Starter Gens were meant to get you home with bullet holes in
them, Small high power and rugged as hell.
BUT NOT efficient at all. In fact %60 was a good number for total power in
to power out.
I burned over 2 Hp in cooling fan power. The unseen losses became the draw
back. Plus they just didn't make the power we need in a On road EV without
Serious cooling efforts. And I mean serious!!! They are rated at 15 inches
of water pressure, across a 3 inch cooling in let. Easy with a aircraft
engine and 400 mph ramair.
A 400 amp Curtii and a Stocker 8 could cut your Watts per mile by about %30.
Extended practice with Regen could yield about a %10 gain in range... but
that took weeks of playing with field control.
Madman
S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:23 AM
Subject: Bohan EV conversion Kit. 72vdc Impressive range claims.
> Over a decade ago a member of the nations largest electric auto > Lawrence
Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> 415-821-3519
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<< Over a decade ago a member of the nations largest electric auto
association, Bruce Mckasky, won the National Range and endurance Rally 5 years
in a row. Mackasky competed against new high-end series motors with advanced
transistorized controllers and year after year brought them down to defeat.
Each year his vehicle would beat his past record until he finally reached a
range of 127.5 miles on a single charge. Mckasky's vehicle was a simple VW
based dunebuggy powered by an aircraft generator.>>>>
Search engines don't find much on "Bruce Mckasky" other than Bohan's dead AOL
site and the previous EVDL discussion of this same subject from Sept '03.
Driving any EV slow enough might get you 127.5 mi, so you'd need to know more
of the rules of the rally this McKasky had entered. Somehow, considering a
Curtis part of a "bleeding edge EV kit" seems a bit of a stretch - did Bohan
buy out Kaylor's leftovers a decade ago and is he still trying to recoup his
investment? Wouldn't an Alltrax 72V/400A controller save a lot of shifting for
not much more than a few contactors cost?
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Hello Cwarman,
Yes, it can't be easy parting with your conversion project. Hopefully,
things will go well with the house (and your wife of course) so that in a
few months it won't hurt so bad. But, getting back to business, I'd like
to get some details about the S10 and parts. I may want to pick up where
you left off. Please contact me off list at- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks,
Richard
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/161 - Release Date: 11/3/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:36:26 -0800, Gordon G Schaeffer
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>HSC Electronic Supply www.halted.com 1-800442-5833 has listed HSC#20789
>$29.95
>Multifunction Electronic Utility Meter 7inch by 11 inch, new, indicates
>time of use, total harmonic distortion, per phase watts, VAR, Amps,
>Volts. This looks like a great testing device for charger development.
>
That's a great meter but it's three phase. The actual brand is Landis
& Gyr. The maintenance manual can be downloaded from the Halted page.
These electronic meters are nifty - I have several - but they're also
a pain in the butt to use compared to analog meters. If you don't
need the fancy data logging, a simple analog watt-hour meter is much
more useful. Among the disadvantages of this type meter:
Proprietary software is required. It's hard to pry loose from Landis
& Gyr unless you're a utility for obvious anti-tampering reasons. They
generally give this software to utilities but they list a high price
to discourage others.
The internal battery backup battery runs down quickly when the meter
isn't connected to the line. That means that one has to open the
housing and connect the battery before each use, then disconnect
afterward.
Closely related, if you accidentally kick the power cord out or a
breaker trips, recorded data is lost after the battery backup battery
drains.
The old "1/2 voltage, 2X current" trick that works with analog meters
to let them be used on 120 volts won't work. 240 volts is required.
The trick involves connecting 120 vac hot and neutral to the meter in
terminals and the load hot and neutral to the out terminals. The
potential is only half but the current passes through the core twice,
once on the way in and once on the way out, so the meter still records
true watt-hours. So far as I can tell from my meters, there is no
voltage jumper so it can't be changed to low voltage.
Though built to utility standards, these are electronic devices and
are subject to zorching, thus losing data that potentially took a long
time to collect. An analog meter, being mechanical, doesn't lose its
data on power failure or even if zorched.
Analog meters are widely available on the net for about the same or
less, maybe even from Halted. I highly recommend going that way
unless you really do need the advanced features.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the reply, Bob.
Funny you mention the civic, I am driving a civic hatchback right now and I'm
more than willing to convert that one.
I suspected there must be some problem with PV panels. Where I am it is really
sunny and hot most of the year, and I thought it might be worthwhile just for
the charge while I am parked at work. (no place to plug in).
But I also thought that I could build one, or have on built, that covered the
bed of the pick-up (essentially a lid-type thing). Wouldn't that actually
improve the aerodynamic of the truck? But again, I know next to nothing about
all this, so....
Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Stan, and welcome oto the list.
Your cost is realistic, and then some. Your range
is realistic, especially if you get to charge at work.
Mike Brown at ElectroAuto.com is _somewhat_ close to
you. He specializes in Rabbit conversions; ie Rabbit
truck.
We all stay away from solar panels, because
whatever you gain, you'll lose in aerodynamics. The
fact is, you might get enough surface area on your
roof for 150W maximum, but you'll be pulling 300
watt/hrs. per mile. So it's just not worth it. Stick
them on a roof, and use it to charge. (;-p
If you choose a Civic conversion instead, check
out the web page.
peace,
--- Stan Helton wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I am a newbie to this list and EVs in general. I am
> determined to own one by this time next year. I am
> interested in purchasing or building a pickup truck
> conversion. IS there a place in the east SF Bay
> area that does conversions?
>
> My neighbor is really handy with cars and will help
> me with the conversion. He builds race cars, so I
> am sure he has everything we need. To get the ICE
> out anyway...
>
> Here's a question... My commute is about 20 miles
> each way. There is a significant hill going out,
> and I need highway speed. Am I going to be able to
> use this for commuting with lead acid batteries? I
> understand that there are batteries out there that
> will increase range, but are probably cost
> prohibitive. I am hoping to do this in the
> $10,000-12,000 range.
>
> I haven't seen any info on the web about adding a
> solar panel to increase range, etc. Is the weight
> trade-off too much? My truck will get lots of sun
> while I am sitting at work, so I thought it could
> give me enough juice to get back home.
>
> Stan
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in
> one click.
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
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--- Begin Message ---
Ran 8 passes today reaction times were within .008 of each other,from -.001
to +007 ( Thanks Oat for the upgrade)Lost with a -.001 in the 8th pass.The
car was within.008 of its dial all day.This was for at least $1500 with the
best racers in the state competing. Dennis Berube Current Eliminator.net
--- End Message ---
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On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 11:58:40 -0800 (PST), Ken Albright
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I beginning to collect tools for my conversion project
>(the whole reason for any project, right?). One is the
>multimeter. Besides DCV to 2 or 3 decimal places, what
>else do I need? Any recommended brands/models?
There is basically Fluke and the rest of the random data generators.
yeah, they're expensive but worth every penny.
I highly, highly recommend a Fluke 87 digital multimeter. This
contains just about everything you need other than an actual scope to
work on industrial electronics, which is what you're actually doing.
The usual volts, amps, ohms plus frequency, period, duty cycle and a
bunch more. The frequency measurement function is a high speed low
frequency high resolution one. It'll read 60.00 hz to two digits
several times a second.
I'd grab a couple or more of the lower end of the 8x Fluke series.
These will be simple DVMs but they're accurate and only moderately
priced.
Do NOT waste your money on Chicom made crap, regardless of the brand
name affixed. I have years of metrology experience, including running
a government calibration lab. I also have a calibration bench (Fluke,
natch!) in my lab and I've tested hundreds of meters. The ChiCom junk
is just that. It'll have you chasing your tail trying to figure out
anomalous readings. I've seen the display change a whole volt on the
20 volt scale simply by warming the meter 20 degrees.
To go with that I recommend one of the Tek handheld digital scopes,
one of the THS or TPS series. In the scope world, there is Tek and
everyone else. If you can't save the jack for a Tek, then a distance
second is the FlukeScope series. I have a FlukeScope and have used a
Tek THS extensively. There is no comparison. Tek tends to understate
their products' capabilities. Take to the bank every feature they
describe for their scopes.
If you can't afford new, either a used Tek digital storage scope or a
Tek analog storage scope is a distant substitute. A great place to
get top notch, refurbished and calibrated used scopes is Bob Garcia in
Marietta, GA. 770 977 5701 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bob is legendary
around the Southeast in nerd circles. He's a retired Tek design
engineer who buys, refurbs and resells almost exclusively Tek scopes.
It's a hobby for him so his prices are VERY good. He hits all the
hamfests within about 200 miles of his home so if you're in this area,
you can meet and greet. The Lawrenceburg 'Fest is coming up in a
couple of weeks in Atlanta.
You'll need at least one pulse generator. Hewlett-Packard is my
choice for used gear and Wavetek for new. The Wavetek stuff is not
nearly the quality of HP stuff but it's affordable. Forget B&K and
the other hobbyist brands.
A universal timer/counter is nice, though if you get a Fluke 87, it'll
handle most frequency and period measuring functions.
For voltage and current measuring, I suggest buying some good isolated
input digital panel meters. These can be had in the $25-50 range.
They are industrial quality and have large enough displays to read at
a distance. They're cheap enough that you can scatter 'em around
freely instead of trying to multi-task one expensive DVM.
A few precision power supplies are necessary. Again, HP is the best.
In this area, the hobbyist brands are OK. Still, used HP supplies can
be had for less than the price of a cheap new hobbyist brand. My
largest supply was made in the 50s and used on the NASA Gemini program
and still meets specs - even with 40 year old electrolytic caps.
One or more voltage calibrators should be on hand. These produce
highly precise output voltages. They're designed for calibrating
voltmeters and also for supplying precise voltages to experiments.
Fluke and HP are about neck-and-neck in this area. Look at Ebay
#7560499536 for a typical digital unit. I have an earlier analog unit
of early 70s vintage that I picked up for $5 at a Hamfest. It STILL
meets its specifications. I send it off every couple of years for an
NBS (er, NIST) traceable calibration. I then calibrate all my other
meters against it.
Being able to check and calibrate your voltemeters is very important
in order to be able to compare readings taken from two different
meters. Even if they're both off, if they're both off the same
amount, then a difference reading will still be accurate.
For non-contact current measurement, I highly recommend trying to find
an old Tong Tester set. Ebay number 7560652121 is the kit I have.
Here is a closeup photo of mine in use:
http://www.johngsbbq.com/Neon_John_site/EV/Photos/Tong_Tester.jpg
http://www.johngsbbq.com/Neon_John_site/EV/Photos/Tong_Tester_close.jpg
This is the Cadillac of AC/DC clamp meters. It is non-electic. It
works by means of an iron vane attached to the meter pointer that is
attracted by the magnetic field concentrated by the jaws. It handles
AC, DC, distorted waveforms, any frequency up to a couple KHZ and
reads true RMS. It is totally immune to all the gremlins that affect
electronic Hall effect and flux gate meters.
It comes in a kit of interchangeable modules that span the range of 50
amps full scale to (I think) 5000 amps (it might be 2000, fuzzy
memory) full scale. The major thing to watch for is a) free needle
movement in all the modules and b) that the serial numbers on all the
modules and the handle match. These instruments were hand-calibrated
at the factory as a set and a pod from one set won't indicate
correctly in the handle from another.
You can see the little blue dot on mine (with the smiley face). Mine
came surplus from TVA. The dots are how we coded pieces of a set so
that one could match them up at a glance. Every piece in a set had
the same color dot affixed.
If you must go electronic with a clamp meter, F.W. Bell makes the
best. They've discontinued their gun-shaped meter but they're widely
available used. Fluke used to private label this meter. Their
current product is great but more expensive.
Fluke is probably a distant second best. Their low end hall effect
stuff such as the 80i-410 is junk. I've been burned more than once.
The Fluke 33 and 36 AC/DC true RMS units are OK. The LH2015 is better
but a bit pricey.
At least one good non-contact infrared thermometer should be on hand.
Get a good name brand like Raytek. An adjustable emissivity control
is necessary, something many of the lower priced ones lack.
One or two Type K thermocouple temperature indicators are handy to
have. TCs can be placed in or cemented to windings, brush holders and
the like to monitor the temperature. I prefer dedicated indicators
over DVMs that happen to read thermocouples. I like the LED digital
panel meters because the bright displays are easy to read at a
distance.
Well, that's a good start. I could list a few more things but I bet
your pocketbook is already straining under the load :-)
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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I noticed that this car has a watt meter under the hood that looks like the
standard meters you see outside of house. Do regular AC watt meters work
for DC, or are the special ones for DC? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:25 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Only 8 made in 1960?
Is this posting for a Henney Kilowatt correct?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4587292432
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