EV Digest 4885
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) unsubcribe EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Help reviewing wikipedia Conversion Article.
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: newbie
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: newbie
by Stan Helton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: newbie
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: newbie
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: newbie
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Electric 7, was: Re: Prius pack on eBay
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: OT: Is this nonsense? or in use?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: OT: Is this nonsense?/moon power
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Battery chargers in series
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Help reviewing wikipedia Conversion Article.
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: OT: Is this nonsense?/moon power
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: OT: Is this nonsense?/moon power
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Battery chargers in series
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Battery chargers in series
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: It's an Electric Thing, you wouldn't understand....
by John David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) "Fall" Power of DC race results
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: "Fall" Power of DC race results
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: OT: Is this nonsense? or in use?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Only 8 made in 1960? Bout Right
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
unsubcribe ev
-------------- Original message --------------
> I noticed that this car has a watt meter under the hood that looks like the
> standard meters you see outside of house. Do regular AC watt meters work
> for DC, or are the special ones for DC? Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:25 PM
> To: EV Discussion List
> Subject: Only 8 made in 1960?
>
> Is this posting for a Henney Kilowatt correct?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4587292432
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan
Assuming that much of this is your work.....
Great Job!
I like to think of wikipedia (and wikis in general) as the seed for
something like Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" :^D
Hope to cya at the SEVA meeting next week.
--------------------------
If anyone is interested, have a peak at this section of the
wikipedia EV conversion article, there are some new diagrams.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion#Startup_circuit
Click on the image for further details, make corrections
directly of reply here and I'll pass them allong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WPEVStartRun.png
L8r
Ryan
----------------------------
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Stan:
I own two pickups, a Nissan 132 V system and we are currently working on a
Chevy S-10. Frankly, I think 40 Miles on highway speeds (and not to forget
that hill) is stretching it. I get approx. 40 Miles out of my Nissan with
new T-125s and I am going a flat road with about 50 mph. But a drop in
outside temps might reduce the range to 35 or even 25 Miles. And you don't
want to run your batteries down to the absolut minimum anyway ..
So .. unless you are planning on putting 40 or more floodies in your
truck, I would suggest a different vehicle or alternative batteries.
Solar panels will not help you either. The power provided by panels on
your truck would be negligent in regard to what you would need to charge
those batteries.
Michaela
> --- Stan Helton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> I am a newbie to this list and EVs in general. I am
>> determined to own one by this time next year. I am
>> interested in purchasing or building a pickup truck
>> conversion. IS there a place in the east SF Bay
>> area that does conversions?
>>
>> My neighbor is really handy with cars and will help
>> me with the conversion. He builds race cars, so I
>> am sure he has everything we need. To get the ICE
>> out anyway...
>>
>> Here's a question... My commute is about 20 miles
>> each way. There is a significant hill going out,
>> and I need highway speed. Am I going to be able to
>> use this for commuting with lead acid batteries? I
>> understand that there are batteries out there that
>> will increase range, but are probably cost
>> prohibitive. I am hoping to do this in the
>> $10,000-12,000 range.
>>
>> I haven't seen any info on the web about adding a
>> solar panel to increase range, etc. Is the weight
>> trade-off too much? My truck will get lots of sun
>> while I am sitting at work, so I thought it could
>> give me enough juice to get back home.
>>
>> Stan
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in
>> one click.
>>
>>
>
>
> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the input, Michaela. I think my best bet is to figure out a way to
plug-in while I am at work.
I have somehow convinced myself that the pickup conversions were going to get
me the best range. But I have been all over the internet and read so much
stuff, I can't remember where it all came from. It this true? Or would I be
better off converting my civic hatchback?
... I could always put 40 "floodies" in my future truck, if they'll fit and it
can handle the payload
Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey Stan:
I own two pickups, a Nissan 132 V system and we are currently working on a
Chevy S-10. Frankly, I think 40 Miles on highway speeds (and not to forget
that hill) is stretching it. I get approx. 40 Miles out of my Nissan with
new T-125s and I am going a flat road with about 50 mph. But a drop in
outside temps might reduce the range to 35 or even 25 Miles. And you don't
want to run your batteries down to the absolut minimum anyway ..
So .. unless you are planning on putting 40 or more floodies in your
truck, I would suggest a different vehicle or alternative batteries.
Solar panels will not help you either. The power provided by panels on
your truck would be negligent in regard to what you would need to charge
those batteries.
Michaela
> --- Stan Helton wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> I am a newbie to this list and EVs in general. I am
>> determined to own one by this time next year. I am
>> interested in purchasing or building a pickup truck
>> conversion. IS there a place in the east SF Bay
>> area that does conversions?
>>
>> My neighbor is really handy with cars and will help
>> me with the conversion. He builds race cars, so I
>> am sure he has everything we need. To get the ICE
>> out anyway...
>>
>> Here's a question... My commute is about 20 miles
>> each way. There is a significant hill going out,
>> and I need highway speed. Am I going to be able to
>> use this for commuting with lead acid batteries? I
>> understand that there are batteries out there that
>> will increase range, but are probably cost
>> prohibitive. I am hoping to do this in the
>> $10,000-12,000 range.
>>
>> I haven't seen any info on the web about adding a
>> solar panel to increase range, etc. Is the weight
>> trade-off too much? My truck will get lots of sun
>> while I am sitting at work, so I thought it could
>> give me enough juice to get back home.
>>
>> Stan
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in
>> one click.
>>
>>
>
>
> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Nov 2005 at 21:14, Stan Helton wrote:
> I have somehow convinced myself that the pickup conversions were going to get
> me the best range.
IF they have enough payload, they can carry lots of lead. One of the
longest range EVs around is the famous "Red Beastie," with 40 (!) golf car
batteries.
Trouble is, pickups are already rather heavy, and usually have mediocre (or
worse) aerodynamics, so they are not very energy-efficient as vehicles in
the first place. Also, from what I've heard, many of the recent ones are
made to be used as cars, not for serious hauling, and so can't really carry
that much of a payload. YMMV.
Note however that I personally don't own a pickup and don't follow trends in
them very closely. Others with more experience may have better suggestions.
You should be able to accomplish your objectives if you can get 40% or more
of the vehicle mass in lead batteries. If it gets cold where you live,
you'll need to insulate your battery boxes. If it gets REALLY cold, or if
you don't drive the EV daily, you might need battery heaters too.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<<I have somehow convinced myself that the pickup conversions were going to
get me the best range. But I have been all over the internet and read so much
stuff, I
can't remember where it all came from. It this true? Or would I be better off
converting my civic hatchback?>>>>
The benefits of converting a truck are the load tolerance of the frame and more
room to put batteries, the detriments being greater starting weight, greater
frontal area and higher Cd, not to mention the inherent difference in handling.
You'll get a Civic to go 40 miles with less batteries than any pickup - browse
the real-life specs in the EV Album - http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all,
Totally agree with the solar panel idea, they won't provide motive force
during travel, well a very small fraction of it. However, i am using three
on my vehicle to provide re-charging facility on the roof and the bonnet. A
very optimistic figure of under a kwhr for 5 peak sun hours, with temp dirt
and charger controller derating, your prob looking at 80% of that. So maybe
800 whr. Will give maybe 6 km's from full day chargin from a 200 watt peak
power setup.
Your using a pickup, the bed lid will be great for solar panel installation.
Nice and flat and more area than mine. You could prob get 300-400 peak power
output if you carefully place them together. but then the at $8 aussie
dollars a watt, might be fairly expensive. In terms of charging the
batteries from maybe 12-48 volts of nominal solar output. You need a DC to
DC convertor and charge regulator which i am working on at the moment for my
thesis. MPPT will br great also.
Hope all goes well for you.
Cheers
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: newbie
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 00:54:35 -0500
On 5 Nov 2005 at 21:14, Stan Helton wrote:
> I have somehow convinced myself that the pickup conversions were going
to get
> me the best range.
IF they have enough payload, they can carry lots of lead. One of the
longest range EVs around is the famous "Red Beastie," with 40 (!) golf car
batteries.
Trouble is, pickups are already rather heavy, and usually have mediocre (or
worse) aerodynamics, so they are not very energy-efficient as vehicles in
the first place. Also, from what I've heard, many of the recent ones are
made to be used as cars, not for serious hauling, and so can't really carry
that much of a payload. YMMV.
Note however that I personally don't own a pickup and don't follow trends
in
them very closely. Others with more experience may have better
suggestions.
You should be able to accomplish your objectives if you can get 40% or more
of the vehicle mass in lead batteries. If it gets cold where you live,
you'll need to insulate your battery boxes. If it gets REALLY cold, or if
you don't drive the EV daily, you might need battery heaters too.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
_________________________________________________________________
MyCareer.com.au: Visit the NEW Salary Survey
http://www.mycareer.com.au/salary-survey/?s_cid=203697
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:53 PM 4/11/05 -0800, Ralph wrote:
James Massey writes:
> I have encountered someone on the 'net with a small 2-seater sports car of
> some type (probably a kit car) who got hold of 5 of these packs for
his/her
> EV pack. But the vehicle description left me wondering if they were going
> to have a lot of trouble once they tried to use the vehicle.
>
> Anyone got a link for that vehicle?
http://www.electric7.com/
Thanks Ralph
That's the one! Quote from their site: "The hybrid-electric car battery
packs were combined and re-engineered to provide four times the original
capacity and power."
To me that means four packs were combined, and at over 200V per pack that'd
imply (since the photo of their charger states a 340V limit) three parallel
strings - with no mention of load sharing.
Also the 10,000RPM tach gets a mention, and either they're anticipating a
higher maximum speed or they've changed the diff ratio - but no mention of
that either.
But I LOVE the concept and style - great if it all works out.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There may be something in the clock that the water activates. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Is this nonsense? or in use?
Nonsense
Phil
From: "gail donaldson lucas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: OT: Is this nonsense? or in use?
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 09:18:19 -0800
My latest Gaiam catalog is advertising clocks and calculators that run on
water. Would this be an application of the new energy source being
discussed?
Gail
Water-Powered Clock or Calculator New
You won't ever have to buy any batteries or plug in any cords to use this
LCD clock or calculator. Both work using nothing more than ordinary water.
The secret is a patented revolution in fuel cell technology that harnesses
the energy of water molecules to provide a futuristic stream of
pollution-free electrical current. Just pull out the two tiny reservoir
tubes from underneath the clock's sleek arch, fill them from your tap, and
(amazingly!) you'll have enough power for two months of operation. China.
http://www.gaiam.com/retail/gai_content/shop/gai_ShopCatalogDisplay.asp?cata
log%5Fname=realgoodsfall05
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got a call from a "gen on a wheel " and as I have free miniunits at night
, I spent some time talking about power and what happens when it goes from
one state to another. I pointed out that almost all power can be traced back
to light from the sun . He added that we do get some light for the moon , at
that point I realized that my idea that almost all power came for the sun
was wrong , the moon by changing the tieds was also producing alot of power
on earth . Here is a kind of power that is not related to the sun (fusion)
at all . All the water that is being moved as the moon orbites the earth is
power ! somhow I'd never though of the moon being an energy sourse , How
much energy is the planet receiving from the moom each day as the water in
the oceans goes up and down . This realy got me thinking about the power
we experance from the moon , it moves alot of water each day as it spins
around the earth but what effect dose this have on the moon, ? where is all
this power comming from ? If the moon was revovling around the earth at
just the right speed to allways stay in orbit , will it not keep revolving
forever, lifting the ocean water many feet everday.
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Possible to hook up three 24 volt battery chargers in series to obtain the
72volt nominal voltage for my 72 volt battery pack?/ Provided that they are
all isolated. Also, my charger's are transformed type. Just like to find out
another method of testing to be sure that they are isolated besides testing
the negative of the output with the earth or the neutral of the AC.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Unfortunently, no, it's not my work, and I don't believe he's on the
list either.
Click on the History link to see who's working on the articles, explore
more!
L8r
Ryan
Roy LeMeur wrote:
Hi Ryan
Assuming that much of this is your work.....
Great Job!
I like to think of wikipedia (and wikis in general) as the seed for
something like Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" :^D
Hope to cya at the SEVA meeting next week.
--------------------------
If anyone is interested, have a peak at this section of the
wikipedia EV conversion article, there are some new diagrams.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion#Startup_circuit
Click on the image for further details, make corrections
directly of reply here and I'll pass them allong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WPEVStartRun.png
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Humm, you know I thought this was going nowhere, "It's reflected
sunlight", but then...
Take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_energy_budget
* solar radiation <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_radiation>
(99.985%, or nearly 174 petawatts; or about 341.5 W/m²)
o This is equal to the product of the solar constant
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_constant>, about 1366
watts per square metre, and the area of the Earth's disc as
seen from the Sun, about 1.28 × 1014 square metres. The
figure of 341.5 W/m² is then the global average value.
* geothermal energy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_energy>
(0.013%, or about 23 terawatts
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terawatt>; or about 0.18 W/m²)
o This is produced by stored heat and heat produced by
radioactive decay leaking out of the Earth's interior.
* tidal energy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide> (0.002%, or about
3 terawatts; or about 0.02 W/m²)
o This is produced by the interaction of the Earth's mass with
the gravitational fields of other bodies such as the Moon
and Sun.
* Waste heat from fossil fuel consumption is about 13 terawatts or
0.025 Wm² [1]
<http://mustelid.blogspot.com/2005/04/global-warming-is-not-from-waste-heat.html>.
So, that tidal energy you were talking about is pretty neglable,
we probably aren't going to solve the worlds energy demand with tidal power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power#Yield_2
Wind, on the other hand, falls into the solar radiation category, of
which with
current technology, and in economic areas, and without utilizing
off-shore, there
is about 74 terawatts available at 80 meters! And we all know that by
transitioning
from FF/Combustion to Wind/BEV we would dramatically increase
transportation
efficiency, and thus lower the current 13-14 terawatts we currently
consume globally.
L8r
Ryan
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
I got a call from a "gen on a wheel " and as I have free miniunits at
night , I spent some time talking about power and what happens when it
goes from one state to another. I pointed out that almost all power
can be traced back to light from the sun . He added that we do get
some light for the moon , at that point I realized that my idea that
almost all power came for the sun was wrong , the moon by changing
the tieds was also producing alot of power on earth . Here is a kind
of power that is not related to the sun (fusion) at all . All the
water that is being moved as the moon orbites the earth is power !
somhow I'd never though of the moon being an energy sourse , How much
energy is the planet receiving from the moom each day as the water
in the oceans goes up and down . This realy got me thinking about the
power we experance from the moon , it moves alot of water each day as
it spins around the earth but what effect dose this have on the moon,
? where is all this power comming from ? If the moon was revovling
around the earth at just the right speed to allways stay in orbit ,
will it not keep revolving forever, lifting the ocean water many feet
everday.
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See Wikipedia for a good illustrated description of the physics behind
earth's tides.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tides
While the mass of the moon makes the oceans slosh into tide shapes (high
at 0 and 180 degs from the moon, low at 90 and 270 degs) it is the
earth's rotation relative to the moon that makes the tides go up and
down.
(If the earth rotated once every 28 days or so, so that the moon was
always above the same point on the earth, the tides would be stuck.)
Anyway, it is the tides going up and down that allows us to extract
energy from them, so it is really the earth's rotation providing the
energy.
As we remove this energy, the earth slows down a tiny little bit.
Scary huh? :-) (After a couple of billion years it might make a
measurable difference.)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2005 6:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: OT: Is this nonsense?/moon power
I got a call from a "gen on a wheel " and as I have free miniunits at
night
, I spent some time talking about power and what happens when it goes
from
one state to another. I pointed out that almost all power can be traced
back
to light from the sun . He added that we do get some light for the moon
, at
that point I realized that my idea that almost all power came for the
sun
was wrong , the moon by changing the tieds was also producing alot of
power
on earth . Here is a kind of power that is not related to the sun
(fusion)
at all . All the water that is being moved as the moon orbites the
earth is
power ! somhow I'd never though of the moon being an energy sourse , How
much energy is the planet receiving from the moom each day as the
water in
the oceans goes up and down . This realy got me thinking about the
power
we experance from the moon , it moves alot of water each day as it spins
around the earth but what effect dose this have on the moon, ? where is
all
this power comming from ? If the moon was revovling around the earth
at
just the right speed to allways stay in orbit , will it not keep
revolving
forever, lifting the ocean water many feet everday.
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Robert,
Leave your charger outputs disconnected (assuming it is safe to run them
that way) and turn them on.
Check whether there is any AC or DC voltage between +ve output of one
charger and -ve output of the next (and vise versa).
There should be 0v if they are truly isolated.
(alternatively you could use a light bulb instead of the multimeter)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Chew
Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2005 9:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery chargers in series
Hi All,
Possible to hook up three 24 volt battery chargers in series to obtain
the
72volt nominal voltage for my 72 volt battery pack?/ Provided that they
are
all isolated. Also, my charger's are transformed type. Just like to find
out
another method of testing to be sure that they are isolated besides
testing
the negative of the output with the earth or the neutral of the AC.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Mark,
Will try it. Only thing is, that the chargers do not output any voltage at
all unless there is a battery connected to it. I have check the potential
difference between the -ve charger output and the earth, neutral and active
and got 0 volts for all three measurements.
Cheers
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Fowler
Sent: 06 November 2005 22:18
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Battery chargers in series
Hi Robert,
Leave your charger outputs disconnected (assuming it is safe to run them
that way) and turn them on.
Check whether there is any AC or DC voltage between +ve output of one
charger and -ve output of the next (and vise versa).
There should be 0v if they are truly isolated.
(alternatively you could use a light bulb instead of the multimeter)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Chew
Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2005 9:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery chargers in series
Hi All,
Possible to hook up three 24 volt battery chargers in series to obtain
the
72volt nominal voltage for my 72 volt battery pack?/ Provided that they
are
all isolated. Also, my charger's are transformed type. Just like to find
out
another method of testing to be sure that they are isolated besides
testing
the negative of the output with the earth or the neutral of the AC.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Craig,
I had considered 8 volters before when I was planning on converting my truck
instead of the Thing but I was told (by I think Peter Van Derwall whose
opinion I respect a lot) that either the voltage or the amps (I can't
remember which) would sag much more than the 6 volters would and I would
probably be very disappointed with the results. I have actually considered
AGM 12 volters but I'm not sure I want to deal with battery balancing issues
this early in my EV experience (you know, you always murder your first
pack). Longevity actually isn't a huge issue with me right now believe it or
not. I'm going to be stationed here in Maine for three more years then after
that, who knows. It would be a lot easier to tow a car without a 1000lb+
battery pack in it so as long as my pack lasts that long, I'll be happy.
Thanks.
John David
On 11/3/05, Mueller, Craig M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> John,
>
> It's great to read about your enthusiasm - as many on the list
> are likely empathetic to (esp myself)!!
>
> I'm running a '93 Daytona conversion in MN (winter), and on
> considering dropping the voltage from 120 to 96, I received some fair
> advice to keep the 120v system. However, my range requirements did not
> mitigate the purchase of 20 6v batteries to replace the tired pack.
> Therefore, I decided to use 15 US 8vGC batteries which result in a
> calculated range of 40 miles (conservatively). I'm still in the early
> stages of break-in, so I've been keeping round trips to ~20 mi daily, so
> I have yet to confirm my calcs.
>
> If I had my druthers - and was in the market for a new
> controller & charger, I'd seriously consider a 144v system using 8vGC's.
> For you, the capacity will be there, the range will be there, and you'll
> save 2 batteries (tri-fold savings; cost, weight, space). You may
> sacrifice a bit of pack longevity, but with your daily 30mile mission,
> and slower road speeds (i.e. slower discharge rate than 144v highway
> drivers) my guess is that you'll end up with a fairly good life.
> The selling point to a 144v system that appeals to me is
> ACCELERATION! My Daytona is certainly heavier than your Thing, but if
> your motor can handle the extra voltage, the acceleration point is one
> to be carefully considered.
>
> Best to you in planning,
>
> Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:20 PM
> To: evlist
> Subject: It's an Electric Thing, you wouldn't understand....
>
> Listers,
> As hinted by my subject line, I'm now the proud owner of a 1973
> Volkswagen
> Thing, or Type 181, and am going to convert it to electric this winter.
> Yahooo! I'm really excited about it and, even though I won't pick it up
> until Thanksgiving, I can't wait to get started and I'm beginning the
> planning process now. My goal is a very short range city commuter,
> thirty
> miles minimum per charge at no more than 45 mph, with a ceramic heater
> (I
> live in Maine). I of course want a good clean install that doesn't look
> like
> a science project. I originally had a 72v Rabbit (Bob and Seth know what
> Rabbit I'm talking about) with a 6.7" motor that had too much rust in
> places
> I couldn't fix (places like the A pillar) so I had to pull all the
> components out and scap it. I'm going to reuse as many of the components
> from the Rabbit as I can but will replace some things like the charger
> and
> maybe the controller, depending on what voltage I wind up going with.
> As far as voltage goes, I think my only options are to keep the 72v
> system
> or move up to 96v. I'll be using 6v floodeds and I doubt the car could
> handle anything more than 96v. If I stick with 72v, I would be able to
> keep
> the same controller and would only need to buy a smart charger to
> replace
> the K&W I have now. If I went with 96v, I would have to go with a new
> controller (the Curtis I have now maxes out at 72v) but from what I've
> been
> told, the motor should be able to handle 96v with no problem. I might
> even
> go with the 500 amp Curtis or possibly a 1k Zilla for some real punch.
> Sixteen batteries with a 96v system might be tough to do. Mike Brown,
> one of
> my heroes on this list, believes the Thing chasis can handle the weight
> of
> 96v of floodeds but I'm mostly worried about layout. I want to keep the
> back
> seat and I want to keep the batteries as low as possible in the chasis.
> I
> think I will be able to fit two in the engine bay, six in the trunk (in
> the
> front), four under the rear seat, and four behind the rear seat. The
> four
> behind the rear seat will be higher than I wanted but I don't have
> anywhere
> else. Seventy-two volts would be a lot easier to layout than 96v. Two in
> the
> bay, six in the trunk, and four under the rear seat. Plus, with 72v, I
> could
> hold off on getting another controller for awhile.
> Do the old air cooled VWs have vacuum assisted brakes or are they just
> completely manual? I plan on converting to disc all around. I'm going to
> keep the clutch because with just a 6.7", I'm sure I'll need to go
> through
> the gears quite a bit.
> I'm also considering doing the solar panel thing. Yes, I know a set of
> panels on a house using the grid as a battery is better but I'm a renter
> and
> that's not an option. I also know that it won't hugely increase my range
> but
> it's something neat that I'd like to do. Plus, the Thing has lots of
> flat
> surfaces that I can sink the panels into. I also have a hard top that I
> can
> graft more panels into. How do you charge batteries with solar panels?
> Are
> there DC to DC chargers?
> If anyone has any advice, ideas, or criticisms please speak up. Thanks
> guys
> and I can't wait to get to work on this.
>
> John David
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
Yesterday in Hagerstown may have been the most beautiful day of the
year.
Almost 80 degrees, sunny, and the incredible view of the mountains in
full fall color.
Everyone else in Maryland must have thought so too because Mason Dixon
Dragway was PACKED.
We headed down from Youngstown with a car that had never been over 50
mph, a driver that had never been in the car and a trailer we had never
used before. 1 1/2 hrs later a loud bang let us know it was time for a
new tire. Thankfully Darin Gilbert was following our rig with Piranha
and a decent spare. We limped over to Wally World and a couple of new
Uniroyals later we were back on the road. When we got to MD it was
already 12pm and the place was jammed. Finally got set up, through
tech, and staged by about 1:00. Made a first low power pass with OJ-2
at 12.4 @ 90 mph. Car and first time driver Brian Carothers performed
flawlessly. Nice burnout and excellent 1.6 - 60 ft. It was clear from
run 1 however that we had some tune and adjust to do. In search of a
happy medium for launch torque and finish line speed I had error ed on
the side of torque and it showed. Brian said the car hit a wall at mid
track and was like driving a 90 mph golf cart the rest of the way.
Charged the car up minus the regulators we had trashed back in Ohio and
tried again. We waited in line until after 2:30 for another chance.
Cranked up the Zilla and ran a 12.1 @ 92 mph. 1.55 - 60 ft. Another
rock steady launch and run. The little 4-wheel drive setup works better
than I ever thought would and doesn't seem to be showing any traction
or handling limitations. Since it was clear we were out of motor
voltage by mid track I had 2 options. 1. Spend ALOT of time rewiring
the 12 motors at higher motor voltage or 2. simply pull out 12 of the
40 Hawkers and run 336 single string battery pack I chose the latter.
Waited in line until 4:30 for our chance to run. 11.55 @ 105 with 1.5 -
60 ft time. We were heading in the right direction. Once again a
perfect run with a .002 reaction time as a bonus. After 3 runs in June
the motors and batteries were steaming. This time around neither was
even warm to the touch! Back to the pits with hopes of stuffing every
amp into pack and making our last best shot of the day. Those hopes
were dashed at 5:15pm when the announcer let us know the staging lanes
were closed for the day. Finished the day disapointed we didn't get a
final chance at the 10's but very satisfied that we can be ready for
Florida in January. Trimming another second with this chassis and motor
setup is very do-able. The car is rock steady and the motors are asking
for ALOT more power The batteries don't seem to be getting hit very
hard either. We packed up and talked with Chip Gribben and Darin
about the virtues of contactors and the performance possibilities of a
40 battery - 480 volt pack with series parallel pack shifting. We all
then went to UNO ate pizza, and watched a data acquisition seminar by
Darin and his laptop. They must have thought we were NUTS. Six
motorheads in a booth huddled around a laptop full of charts and
graphs, talking at the same time. Thanks to Chip, Darin, and the
Carothers boys for making it one of our best racing days ever.
Shawn Lawless
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
great going.
when and where in Florida as I'm interested in seeing
the car and meeting you. You have done a great job
and are making the kind of products that will change
perceptions about electrics and BEVs
congraulations
kEVs
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> All,
>
> Yesterday in Hagerstown may have been the most
> beautiful day of the
> year.
> Almost 80 degrees, sunny, and the incredible view of
> the mountains in
> full fall color.
> Everyone else in Maryland must have thought so too
> because Mason Dixon
> Dragway was PACKED.
> We headed down from Youngstown with a car that had
> never been over 50
> mph, a driver that had never been in the car and a
> trailer we had never
> used before. 1 1/2 hrs later a loud bang let us know
> it was time for a
> new tire. Thankfully Darin Gilbert was following our
> rig with Piranha
> and a decent spare. We limped over to Wally World
> and a couple of new
> Uniroyals later we were back on the road. When we
> got to MD it was
> already 12pm and the place was jammed. Finally got
> set up, through
> tech, and staged by about 1:00. Made a first low
> power pass with OJ-2
> at 12.4 @ 90 mph. Car and first time driver Brian
> Carothers performed
> flawlessly. Nice burnout and excellent 1.6 - 60 ft.
> It was clear from
> run 1 however that we had some tune and adjust to
> do. In search of a
> happy medium for launch torque and finish line speed
> I had error ed on
> the side of torque and it showed. Brian said the car
> hit a wall at mid
> track and was like driving a 90 mph golf cart the
> rest of the way.
> Charged the car up minus the regulators we had
> trashed back in Ohio and
> tried again. We waited in line until after 2:30 for
> another chance.
> Cranked up the Zilla and ran a 12.1 @ 92 mph. 1.55 -
> 60 ft. Another
> rock steady launch and run. The little 4-wheel drive
> setup works better
> than I ever thought would and doesn't seem to be
> showing any traction
> or handling limitations. Since it was clear we were
> out of motor
> voltage by mid track I had 2 options. 1. Spend ALOT
> of time rewiring
> the 12 motors at higher motor voltage or 2. simply
> pull out 12 of the
> 40 Hawkers and run 336 single string battery pack I
> chose the latter.
> Waited in line until 4:30 for our chance to run.
> 11.55 @ 105 with 1.5 -
> 60 ft time. We were heading in the right direction.
> Once again a
> perfect run with a .002 reaction time as a bonus.
> After 3 runs in June
> the motors and batteries were steaming. This time
> around neither was
> even warm to the touch! Back to the pits with hopes
> of stuffing every
> amp into pack and making our last best shot of the
> day. Those hopes
> were dashed at 5:15pm when the announcer let us know
> the staging lanes
> were closed for the day. Finished the day
> disapointed we didn't get a
> final chance at the 10's but very satisfied that we
> can be ready for
> Florida in January. Trimming another second with
> this chassis and motor
> setup is very do-able. The car is rock steady and
> the motors are asking
> for ALOT more power The batteries don't seem to be
> getting hit very
> hard either. We packed up and talked with Chip
> Gribben and Darin
> about the virtues of contactors and the performance
> possibilities of a
> 40 battery - 480 volt pack with series parallel pack
> shifting. We all
> then went to UNO ate pizza, and watched a data
> acquisition seminar by
> Darin and his laptop. They must have thought we
> were NUTS. Six
> motorheads in a booth huddled around a laptop full
> of charts and
> graphs, talking at the same time. Thanks to Chip,
> Darin, and the
> Carothers boys for making it one of our best racing
> days ever.
>
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:55 AM 11/6/2005, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
There may be something in the clock that the water
activates. Lawrence Rhodes.....
It was suggested on another list that the water is actually being
used as the electrolyte of a dissimilar metal battery. A clincher
would be if the instructions suggest adding a little salt if the pure
water doesn't work.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:28 PM
Subject: RE: Only 8 made in 1960?
> I noticed that this car has a watt meter under the hood that looks like
the
> standard meters you see outside of house. Do regular AC watt meters work
> for DC, or are the special ones for DC? Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:25 PM
> To: EV Discussion List
> Subject: Only 8 made in 1960?
>
> Is this posting for a Henney Kilowatt correct?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4587292432
>
> Hi All;
Yup! That's a "Henney Kilowatt"! In decent shape, EVen. Go for it! A bit
pricy but , Hell It has new batteries, a simple contacter series parallel
controller and is just quirky, (French Car)enough to be a lot of fun! It is
a Renault Dauphine in it's former life. So you can file that in your mind
WITHOUT the silly ICE engine it came with. So you won't have that issue. I
used to in my deformatice, Hi school, years grab hold of the bumper of a
Dauphene and my friend couldn't drive away. It didn't have the power, to
pullaway or spin the wheels. Same with a Morris Minor of that era, too. In
the daze of Buick Roadmonsters and such, which you could move garages or
haul wooden power boats out of the water, WITHOUT a trailer, they were cause
for jest. Well, I WAS a big guy then, to, a hellova lot stronger than
now<g>!
The Henney would be a great second car for all the enchanting places ya
hafta go EVery day. Work, bank, library, stores. Those types of trips that
your gas rig hardly gets warm. Well, I'm talking about most other EV's nitch
in life, I guess. Your Prius can chill out in the garage while the Henny ,
or EV of your choice, duz the scut work.
A fun trip would be , say, a transcon, if you had EONS of time to plug
(pun intended)along the famous " Blue Hiways" of book fame, by William Least
Heat Moon, That's REALLY his name, didn't make it up<g>! He did a wonderful
travelogue years ago, staying off the interstates, moving where the spirit
moved him. A perfect EV trip!
A henney could be upgraded with a Zilla or EVen a Alltrax, as the voltage
is low enough. A PFC Whatever to upgrade charging, or leave it alone! It
worked as it was built for years, like if it aint broke don't fix it. But it
IS an OLD car with ride and handling to prove it. 'Nuff sed.
Not affiliated with any of this on Oy Vey, just a few watts worth of
comments.
Happy E Beying!
Bob
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
