EV Digest 4905
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Battery Charging
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Series Wound vs Sepex 6.7" ADC motor
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Adapter plate thickness
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Battery Charging
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: dc to dc converter
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Battery Beach Burnout (FL Race) Update
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Battery Beach Burnout (FL Race) Update
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Range extending
by "Schacherl Jens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Series Wound vs Sepex 6.7" ADC motor
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Battery post forces, was: Max current w/top terminal UPS batterie
s?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Series Wound vs Sepex 6.7" ADC motor
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Ev convert, me and the car.
by laptop2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Battery Beach Burnout (FL Race) Update
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Riddle me this (newbie)....
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Range extending
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) FYI, EV 4 sale Bombardier
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Series/parallel Motor Field
by England Nathan-r25543 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Ev convert, me and the car.
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Ev convert, me and the car.
by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Range extending
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: dc to dc converter
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Range extending
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) A123Systems li-ion technology
by "Peri Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Range Extending
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Hawkers in the Hood
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Range extending and wheel motors on TV
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: very weak demand for Toyota and Honda EVs?
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
If you EV does not have a totally enclose battery ventilation and all arc or
spark producing devices as contactors and relays are not isolated from any
battery venting, it best to charge the vehicle outside with all the enclosure
doors open.
But you still could have the top of your vehicle blown out like I did, (the
lexon glass blew out in one piece), taking out 10 batteries out back in 1985.
This was cause by the turning off the battery charger switch which was a arcing
device.
Since then, I install the batteries in a totally enclose epoxy coated
fiberglass enclosure that has a negative pressure, by using a explosive proof
exhaust fan that directs the exhaust down and out in a 1/4 thick acid proof
pipe like a engine exhaust pipe. If I charging in a building, I can connect a
hose to this exhaust port to a exterior wall port of the building.
Clean filter air comes in a acid proof pipe which is 6 feet to the front of the
rear exhaust.
The battery charger, contactors, relays, circuit breakers and any arc producing
devices are also in a separate totally enclosure that is under pressure, so
that its keeps out any battery fumes.
The exhaust fan and pressure fans, have a pressure/vacuum sensor switch, so if
any of the fans fail, the charger power is disconnected. There is a back up
fan that stays on to purge any remaining fumes after the battery charger shuts
down.
Also, before charging the batteries, the fans must come on first for a 30
second purge of any battery fumes. This then activates the pressure/vacuum fan
sensor, which turns on a AC magnetic contactor providing power to the battery
charger.
Before the battery charger is turn on, a battery isolation DC contactor
connects the battery charger DC lines to the battery. The battery charger is
then turn on.
In a EV, you are compacting a large amount of batteries in a small space. In a
industrial battery and maintenance rooms, you could also have a large number of
batteries. In these battery rooms, the whole ceiling is one big exhaust fan
hood with two large prop driven up lift fans. The walls are also cover with
double layer of epoxy cover aluminum ductwork that goes all the way to the
floor. There is also outlets opening at the base of the work benches.
All lighting, switches, receptacles, and battery charger receptacles are all
explosion proof, Class I Division I devices. Battery chargers are not place in
the same room that the batteries are in. They are in equipment cabinets in a
separated room.
If your EV is in a enclosed garage without any ventilation and you smell
battery fumes, DO NOT TURN ON OR OFF ANY LIGHT SWITCHES OR OPEN THE GARAGE DOOR
WITH THE ELECTRIC OPERATOR! Treat it just like a natural gas leak.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Marino<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Charging
>Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:56:07 -0800
>
>I don't think so, Bill - others may differ, but the gas produced by
>charging
>is not very flammable or explosive, and is in such small quantities that is
>is not a potential problem.
>
No - flooded lead acid batteries give off hydrogen ( and oxygen) gas when
charging, particularly when equalizing. This is not a matter of personal
opinion.
Hydrogen IS very flammable and explosive ( if constrained when ignited)
. Check out this site to see what can happen when hydrogen from charging
batteries ignites:
http://www.detrick.army.mil/bulletin/safety/work/batteryexplosion.cfm<http://www.detrick.army.mil/bulletin/safety/work/batteryexplosion.cfm>
PLEASE, everyone. When posting about safety-related issues, be sure you
know that your claims are really true. Don't guess.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/<http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, an EV rule of thumb says that 1 KW from the batteries gives 1
hp of mechanical power once losses through the controller, motor and
cabling are factored in.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick 'Sharkey' Moore
Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2005 4:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Series Wound vs Sepex 6.7" ADC motor
On 2005-11-14, Lee Hart wrote:
>
> Battery current (at a particular voltage) is basically telling you the
> horsepower that the motor is producing. If the Bombardier draws 300
amps max
> at 72v, that's 21600 watts in or 21.6 hp out max.
Uh, I think somehow you mean 21.6 kW (about 16 hp).
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 14, 2005, at 10:42 AM, Chris Martens wrote:
I am making an adapter plate for my Geo Metro conversion. Is 3/8 inch
steel
thick enough? Maybe 1/2 inch? The plate will only be 12"x14", and I'm
not using
a big motor.
That should be no problem. I'm using 1/2 inch of aluminum. Well, it
started out at 3/4th inch, but was machined flat and then step cut for
the motor centering ring and Beetle transaxle centering ring.
I think NEDRA/ NHRA has some rules on thickness. If so I would consider
them generous guidelines. Likely overkill, because its designed to be
strong enuf for a large bell housing and LOTS of power.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for all the responses to mu question about battery charging. I
will park the evw in the driveway during charging and use a switch
inside to shut the charger off.
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 14, 2005, at 11:35 AM, Bill & Nancy wrote:
I was looking at dc to dc converters at
http://www.powerstream.com/dc-72.htm for use in my evw. They output 9
amps with a 10 amp peak and 124 watts. Would this be adequate power to
the 12 volt system with headlights in use for short distances, approx.
1 mile.
I don't have much of an electrical system in my EV buggy (or range),
but I couldn't live with 9 or 10 amps. A pair of 55 incandescent head
lights, a pair of 8 watt tail lights, and a 1.2 watt dash light (only
gauge is the speedo) use that much power (10 amps.) Then there is two
26 watt brake lights, not to mention the 16 watts of turn signal (32
watts if I had 4 way flashers.) Now I need 15 amps, plus 1.5 amps for
the Albright contactor. Then I toss in 4.5 amps for neon lights and
whatever the horn draws. I'm really pushing it with the Todd PC20-LV
(20 amps DC to DC) and no 12v accessory battery. Oh, I forgot the 1.2
watt "ON" light, the 1.2 watt high beam light. Shoot, I got some things
to add (license plate light is one thing) - perhaps I invest in a bit
of power 12 volt power saving pretty soon.
I believe in making my electronics work (the little Todd has been happy
for 6 years without a 12v backup battery), but what your suggesting
would require a 12v backup battery and you would lean on it often. This
would mean less than the 13 or so volts your head lights need to not
look noticeably yellow.
Paul "neon" Gooch
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
I wanted to give everyone an update on the upcoming Battery Beach Burnout
Event taking place in FL next January 21st. The new website is up, but still
needs some work. The website with all the information about the race is at:
http://www.batterybeach.com
The event plans are to have a show and shine competition Saturday afternoon
at the race track and the drag race Saturday night. The Show and Shine will
start at Noon and go till 4:00PM, gates for the race open at 4:30 with
racing starting at 5:00PM. Prizes and awards for the Show and Shine will be
given for "Best Engineered Car", "Viewer's Choice", "Participants Choice"
and others. The viewer's and participant's choice will be by ballot from the
public and attendees voting for their favorite. Awards and trophies for all
the events will be given Saturday night after the drag race at the award
ceremony.
In an attempt to have a bigger event and media draw, we are scheduling this
year's event to be a two-day competition! Friday, January 20th, in the
afternoon, we will be having an EV Autocross Race near the track. Friday
night after the Autocross, we will be having a Social / EV Get-together near
the beach for all the attendees with their EV's. (Where else can you hang
out near the beach with a bunch EV's???)
Having both events would not be possible without the die-hard efforts of two
of South Florida's EV'ers, Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons. I'd like to thank
them both for all of their hard work and inspiration! I'd also like to thank
Chip Gribben for the awesome graphic for the race and website!!!
The two day event will be packed with competitions, races and fun. We are
hoping to have several high school and college teams, as well as the
professional or individual racers.
If anyone is planning on attending, or would like more information, please
email us at: race_at_batterybeach.com
Thanks and hope to see everyone in Florida next January for the Southeast's
biggest EVent!
Shawn Waggoner
NEDRA South East Coordinator
Battery Beach Burnout Organizer
www.batterybeach.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
I wanted to give everyone an update on the upcoming Battery Beach Burnout Event
taking place in FL next January 21st. The new website is up, but still needs
some work. The website with all the information about the race is at:
http://www.batterybeach.com
The event plans are to have a show and shine competition Saturday afternoon at
the race track and the drag race Saturday night. The Show and Shine will start
at Noon and go till 4:00PM, gates for the race open at 4:30 with racing
starting at 5:00PM. Prizes and awards for the Show and Shine will be given for
"Best Engineered Car", "Viewer's Choice", "Participants Choice"
and others. The viewer's and participant's choice will be by ballot from the
public and attendees voting for their favorite. Awards and trophies for all the
events will be given Saturday night after the drag race at the award ceremony.
In an attempt to have a bigger event and media draw, we are scheduling this
year's event to be a two-day competition! Friday, January 20th, in the
afternoon, we will be having an EV Autocross Race near the track. Friday night
after the Autocross, we will be having a Social / EV Get-together near the
beach for all the attendees with their EV's. (Where else can you hang out near
the beach with a bunch EV's???)
Having both events would not be possible without the die-hard efforts of two of
South Florida's EV'ers, Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons. I'd like to thank them
both for all of their hard work and inspiration! I'd also like to thank Chip
Gribben for the awesome graphic for the race and website!!!
The two day event will be packed with competitions, races and fun. We are
hoping to have several high school and college teams, as well as the
professional or individual racers.
If anyone is planning on attending, or would like more information, please
email us at: race_at_batterybeach.com
Thanks and hope to see everyone in Florida next January for the Southeast's
biggest EVent!
Shawn Waggoner
NEDRA South East Coordinator
Battery Beach Burnout Organizer
www.batterybeach.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Ok, I know this comes up every-now-and-then, but I had a thought:
>What I would really wish for is an EV for zippin' around town (0 -
>40MPH, stop & go traffic), and a hybrid for short highway/byway cruises
>(40 - 60MPH, steady speed)...
>How about a dual-mode hybrid? Instead of thinking of the gas motor as a
>generator or primary drive or even secondary drive, use it as an
>on-board part-time supplemental drive; a range-extender.
Hello Stefan,
what you describe sounds like the TwinTrak drivetrain, invented and
patented by the Swiss company Esoro in the early 90s:
http://www.esoro.ch/english/content/kernk/nhanst/h301/h.htm
They build a handful prototypes of their H301 hybrid which are still
running,
but of course no big carmaker ever wanted to licence their concept
(probably "no demand", as usual).
Regards, Jens
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 11/15/05, Nick 'Sharkey' Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2005-11-14, Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> > Battery current (at a particular voltage) is basically telling you the
> > horsepower that the motor is producing. If the Bombardier draws 300 amps max
> > at 72v, that's 21600 watts in or 21.6 hp out max.
>
> Uh, I think somehow you mean 21.6 kW (about 16 hp).
21.6kW is about 29HP actually. But in general you can say "kW in = HP
out", allowing 74% efficiency from batteries to motion.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Two responses:
You *MUST* use something to give you some spring tension,
otherwise the contact will fail catastrophically when it
gets 1 mil beyond the position where you bolted the nut.
NOTE that with low-speed threads, you get MORE
compression force for the same torque!!!
The other response is aimed at my earlier post, where I
claimed that it is NOT the (high) torque that gives the
proper contact, but only the cleanness of the surfaces.
Tonight I hand-tightened (!) a nut (5/16 stainless steel)
through a bronze cable clamp and the battery flag-post,
the nut compressed a thin split washer and a flat washer,
with hand-tightening I compressed this about halfway.
The bronze clamp is about 1 square inch with almost 1/2"
hole and all of the surface was shiny after I filed it
clean. I did not file the battery post, but turned the
clamp around the bolt after hand-tightening, scratching
the post.
Then I sent 10 Amp through the post/clamp and measured the
voltage: 1.1 mV so the resistance is 0.1 Ohm with only a
hand-tight connection.
I know that I will be cleaning my battery posts and use
Noalox to make sure the connections under the cab and
in the bottom layer of the battery box will not need any
routine 'tightening' - if I ever work on the cables and
connections, then I will make sure to clean them well and
cover the contact surface in Noalox again, I will not
care much for just re-tightening the connections as that
will only damage the lead.
I know that they need to be tight enough to not move when
the vehicle is, especially vibration may be hard on the
heavy cables, but any tighter than this and we will only
see the lead creep away.
Split-washers or Belleville washers, I think it does not
matter much if the contact area between post and lug or
cable clamp is large and clean. I noticed that in my case
the bolt contacted the post at the head and the resistance
through the split washer was so large, that the bolt and
nut were at the same potential as the post.
In the final installation I will use a large flat washer
with the split washer and use them at the post side, to get
a large area of lead that carries the pressure, as the
small bolt head can push on the bronze clamp without
deforming it.
Hope this info helps you, let me know if you think I
should set this up differently.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jimmy Argon
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Max current w/top terminal UPS batteries?
Cor,
If you must use a bolt to terminate to a lead post and
can select the bolts, use 5/16 - 24(threads per inch).
You will be able to control and reach the recommended
torque more easily.
Also, I do not use locking (split) washers, but do use
the largest surface possible contacting the lead.
Jimmy
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Robert,
>
> I do have a potential problem with my car (S10), in
> that I cannot reach most
> of the batteries without major work (under the cab /
> two layers in the box)
> so I plan on using the approach to have low pressure
> on the tabs by using
> a large surface area with the type of lugs (and if
> necessary, larger
> washers)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-11-15, Evan Tuer wrote:
> On 11/15/05, Nick 'Sharkey' Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 2005-11-14, Lee Hart wrote:
> > >
> > > Battery current (at a particular voltage) is basically telling you the
> > > horsepower that the motor is producing. If the Bombardier draws 300 amps
> > > max
> > > at 72v, that's 21600 watts in or 21.6 hp out max.
> >
> > Uh, I think somehow you mean 21.6 kW (about 16 hp).
>
> 21.6kW is about 29HP actually. But in general you can say "kW in = HP
> out", allowing 74% efficiency from batteries to motion.
Ooops. I got it bass-ackward. How embarrasment. And thus I'd missed
the implied 74% efficiency.
-----sharks (pity, 134% efficiency would have been nice ...)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Fowler wrote:
>Hi laptop2,
>
>Based on your ICE plans for this car, and your Impala, I don't really
>think that you will be satisfied with what a Curtis controller can do
>for you.
>
>You're definitely in the Zilla demographic.
>
>Mark
>
I'm not so sure :D
I also drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 as my daily driver. It Averages
7.6 Mpg in the city. Mainly because the engine isn't fully warmed up by
the time I reach my dest. The best it ever gets is 12.6mpg on the hwy.
And believe my I drive this this as efficient as humanly possible.
Basicly I need an efficient car for my daily driving, and when I have a
need for speed I have my Impala as my outlet.
I'm growing tired of high gas prices and paying $320 a month in gas. 30%
is my wifes v8 car. 50% is my Jeep, and the other 20% is the Impala
(during 3 months of summer).
I'd like the keep the jeep only for bad weather (snow). And if the 280z
turns out to be a good EV, I'd like to build a second one for the wife,
she has already given me permission :)
I think I'm probably one of the ones that would actually be under the
break even point of actually saving money by owning an EV, I take real
good care of my things and I bet I can stretch battery life really well.
(already do it with my laptop).
-Mario-
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
I wanted to give everyone an update on the upcoming Battery Beach Burnout
Event taking place in FL next January 21st. The new website is up, but still
needs some work. The website with all the information about the race is at:
http://www.batterybeach.com
The event plans are to have a show and shine competition Saturday afternoon
at the race track and the drag race Saturday night. The Show and Shine will
start at Noon and go till 4:00PM, gates for the race open at 4:30 with
racing starting at 5:00PM. Prizes and awards for the Show and Shine will be
given for "Best Engineered Car", "Viewer's Choice", "Participants Choice"
and others. The viewer's and participant's choice will be by ballot from the
public and attendees voting for their favorite. Awards and trophies for all
the events will be given Saturday night after the drag race at the award
ceremony.
In an attempt to have a bigger event and media draw, we are scheduling this
year's event to be a two-day competition! Friday, January 20th, in the
afternoon, we will be having an EV Autocross Race near the track. Friday
night after the Autocross, we will be having a Social / EV Get-together near
the beach for all the attendees with their EV's. (Where else can you hang
out near the beach with a bunch EV's???)
Having both events would not be possible without the die-hard efforts of two
of South Florida's EV'ers, Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons. I'd like to thank
them both for all of their hard work and inspiration! I'd also like to thank
Chip Gribben for the awesome graphic for the race and website!!!
The two day event will be packed with competitions, races and fun. We are
hoping to have several high school and college teams, as well as the
professional or individual racers.
If anyone is planning on attending, or would like more information, please
email us at: race_at_batterybeach.com
Thanks and hope to see everyone in Florida next January for the Southeast's
biggest EVent!
Shawn Waggoner
NEDRA South East Coordinator
Battery Beach Burnout Organizer
www.batterybeach.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EPA mileage:
Then I was told wrong by a CARB representative.
Here is an interesting one, from http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/#data
"Fuel Economy Guide data is derived from vehicle testing performed by
EPA by vehicle manufacturers who submit their own test data to EPA. EPA
also performs a small amount of testing to confirm the manufacturer
results..."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jen
While I am not interested in the Hybrids- I found the
website interesting. Especially their E2 while was a
solar car 3 wheeler. Charged with only 4.5 sq. m of
solar cells. At least I assume charged as the small
clip was not specific. Looks alot like the old
fiberfab Scarab body with some mods for aerodynamics.
To bad they are not available as either plans or for
sale.
>
> Hello Stefan,
>
> what you describe sounds like the TwinTrak
> drivetrain, invented and
> patented by the Swiss company Esoro in the early
> 90s:
>
http://www.esoro.ch/english/content/kernk/nhanst/h301/h.htm
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, here's my buggy description that's limited since they bumped up the speed
to 55mph on a stretch of road going to work.
Have a nice day, Mark
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
Shortcut to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4590724442
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am trying to decide what the best combination is and will be doing
more testing. I have a glorified golf cart, it has been modified for speed
(suspension and brake wise) and additional batteries. This platform is being
used because it is a far less expensive way to learn what works and what
doesn't. If I can't get this to a level I want there is no point for me
building an EV.
I have a modified wound motor (company name withheld at this time) that gets
way too hot and sucks down way too many amps for the performance it gives. I am
working with the company to figure out why.
Vehicle weighs 900 lbs. with driver. Amp readings taken when controller was at
100% duty cycle so motor amps and battery amps should be the same.
Modified motor has parallel windings
Modified motor on 60V pulls 70A at 30 MPH (Max attainable speed)
Case temp reaches 100C in 4 miles ambient 22C
Modified motor on 120V pulls 100A at 47 MPH (Max attainable speed)
Case reaches 100C in 3 miles or less ambient 22C.
Baldor motor has series field windings
Baldor field with modified armature
Motor on 60V pulls 30 amps at 24 MPH (Max attainable speed)
Case temp 60C in 3 miles ambient 20C
Motor on 120V pulls 77A at 42 MPH (Max attainable speed)
Case reached 80C in 4 hard accel 1/4 mile runs where amps reached 250 peak. It
probably would reach 100C in 4 miles based on amp draw.
The series field did not have as much top end but seemed to accelerate faster
off the line. It also used less amps and ran cooler. Although after reading
about real EVs my 900 lb car seems to suck more amps in every test for it's
size.
Next load test will be Baldor Field and Baldor armature in vehicle to see what
armature differences there are.
What I am try to decide is the best winding combination for performance and
power consumption, the modified motor is very well built mechanically but is
poor electrically. I am also trying to learn from these observances for the big
project. Additional field windings seemed like the rout to take even if top end
dropped a little.
Thanks,
Nathan
Jim Husted Wrote:
Wire size and turns are not the only things that effect coil / armature
relationships. How the fields are plumbed play a key role also. Jay Donnaways
motor is plumbed to be operated in either series or parallel.
In series the motor runs 1200 RPM @ 18 amps 12 volts, 0 load.
In parallel the motor runs 1850 RPM @ 30 amps @ 12 volts, 0 load.
Every EV motor I've seen so far has been plumbed parallel, which gives you
higher speed, but less torque. Jay's motor should put to rest whether going to
series will be beneficial or not. I believe that being able to switch the
fields to series would benefit those that face long or steep uphill drives.
Even if one could only get a 10 % improvement would that not be the same as
what some are getting out of regen? What I do know is that Prestolite used a
two speed motors (motors wired for both series and parallel) for years. If you
were going up a ramp the unit stayed in series as switching it over to parallel
would bog down the motor as torque dropped and the amps would skyrocket. I
believe this applies the same for anyone facing the same issues. Another
application example I could use would be someone who has a lower voltage motor
than what they would like. They could re-plumb the fields to series reducing
the motors RPM at X current resulting in a motor able to hand!
! le the higher voltage with improved torque. The biggest perks here would
be it is a lot cheaper to re-plumb than it is to wind new coils, anyways time
will tell and I look forward to seeing Jays results.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a 1972 240Z that I was considering converting, but I decided against
because of the limitations on weight that you could add. It had a curb
weight of 2355# and a Gross Vehicle Weight of 2820#.
Not much wiggle room for adding batteries. I assume the weight of your 1976
will be close to the same.
If you're willing to have a very limited range and use AGM batteries, it
should make a pretty nice car.
Check out John Waylands website for some discussion about the Silver Bullet.
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: laptop2 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 7:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Ev convert, me and the car.
Couple questions.
Is there a pre-made adapter for a 1976 280z 5 speed manual available
anywhere? I've sent a few emails off but no reply as of yet.
What size motor and voltage would be recommended for this car?
I don't have any large hills nearby and will be city driving 95% of the time
sub 45mph. But I'd like it to hit freeway speeds and climb a hill if I
really needed too.
I haven't torn the car apart yet but the caburators on the v6 ICE are making
this thing top out at 40mph anyway so its about time I convert it.
If this car is a poor choice for a conversion please let me know and I will
just sell it and buy another gas guzzler hehe.
Tnx
Mario
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like a fun conversion. You can definitely stuff more batteries in. I
would put a battery box where the gas tank is. It is also possible to put a
couple where the tool bins are. You can also put more up front if you want to.
A 144v is a common converstion and should have enough pep. You might want to
weld in the frame supports that are available, to stiffen the body. I would
replace the clutch with a racing clutch. The stock one on the 260z is pretty
weak, even when new. The '74 doesn't have power steering and I don't thing the
'76 does either.
Go with a 9" motor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of laptop2
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 5:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Ev convert, me and the car.
Ya sorry about the typo, it is a Straight 6.
Im so used to saying V8 when explaining my 600 hp impala that the V just
stuck with me.
http://ecahost.com/impala
About the carbs of the Z, i rebuilt them 3-4 times, replaced the
need/seats with some ball types and I think one is sticking open or
closed right now. Milage varies depending hot its running from day to
day, but the carbs need work they are falling apart and one has a crack
on top of the spring/oil resivour letting vaccume leak out. Its either
$300-500 to get all new carbs for it. Or $5000+ to convert it to EV.
I think EV would be fun, im always into projects. Im looking to
converting it to EV mostly because I originally bought this car to hold
a high power V8 but I already got a high power V8 impala even if its
alot heavier. And if I keep the Z with a gas motor much longer thats a
serious chance im gonna go crazy and start ordering parts for turbo v8
which is just gonna cost my thousands in gas.
An EV would probably be cheaper in the very end.
I im not sure i want to do a dual electric motor as thats just more cost
for batterys, motor, and motor controler.
I kinda have a rough estimate in my head that I would like to use the
144v curtis 500(550?)amp controler, and a 8-9" motor keeping the trans
if Im gonna need the 1st gear for hill climbing. I do know how to shift
without using a clutch if thats nessasary even though its particularly
difficult with the Z's 5speed, but that could just be due to how rough
the motor runs.
I'd also like to stick with 10-12 batteries. 6-8 in the back over the
gas tank, and 4 or so under the huge hood these things have if I can fit
it in. I plan to do as much work myself as I can. I can weld, wire
anything, and fabricate a little as long as it doesn't require the
precision down to thousands :) .
I'd like to start out cheap, and then add things as I get more funds
like extra safety futures and switches etc, but to start I'd like to
only have maybe a bit-red-cutoff switch a large fuse near the batteries.
Adding rev limiters and other safety contacts later if this is possable?
/end long windedness
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The website claims that it is capable of going 10,000 km (~6,000 miles) a
year using a stationary 4.5sq. meter solar array.
Hmm nice Cd, better than an Insight.
> Jen
> While I am not interested in the Hybrids- I found the
> website interesting. Especially their E2 while was a
> solar car 3 wheeler. Charged with only 4.5 sq. m of
> solar cells. At least I assume charged as the small
> clip was not specific. Looks alot like the old
> fiberfab Scarab body with some mods for aerodynamics.
> To bad they are not available as either plans or for
> sale.
>
>>
>> Hello Stefan,
>>
>> what you describe sounds like the TwinTrak
>> drivetrain, invented and
>> patented by the Swiss company Esoro in the early
>> 90s:
>>
> http://www.esoro.ch/english/content/kernk/nhanst/h301/h.htm
>>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the information on the power requirements of the dc to dc
converter. It appears that 9 amp converter is way underpowered even for
a vw.
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I wish I'd seen this before. It's quite similar to what I'm
(gradually) building. The weight should be identical, it'll have
Li-Ion batteries though, and I doubt I'll be able to get the Cd that
low :)
Thanks for the link.
On 11/15/05, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The website claims that it is capable of going 10,000 km (~6,000 miles) a
> year using a stationary 4.5sq. meter solar array.
> Hmm nice Cd, better than an Insight.
>
> > Jen
> > While I am not interested in the Hybrids- I found the
> > website interesting. Especially their E2 while was a
> > solar car 3 wheeler. Charged with only 4.5 sq. m of
> > solar cells. At least I assume charged as the small
> > clip was not specific. Looks alot like the old
> > fiberfab Scarab body with some mods for aerodynamics.
> > To bad they are not available as either plans or for
> > sale.
> >
> >>
> >> Hello Stefan,
> >>
> >> what you describe sounds like the TwinTrak
> >> drivetrain, invented and
> >> patented by the Swiss company Esoro in the early
> >> 90s:
> >>
> > http://www.esoro.ch/english/content/kernk/nhanst/h301/h.htm
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After a number of tries, I finally was able to talk to someone in their
Sales and Applications group (name withheld on purpose). They are currently
working hard to fulfill their agreement with Black & Decker and I feel
honored to have received a little time with them. I have a few more numbers
than are on their website and got permission to publish those here.
Form factor: 26650
nominal voltage: 3.35v
max voltage 3.6v
capacity: 2.2ah
internal resistance 10-12mohm
power density at 5 sec pulse: 3500w/kg
energy density: 100wh/kg
weight: 70g/cell
Cells may be available to customers other than Black & Decker (e.g. evdl
members) in mid 2006 but no pricing info is available yet. They will be
adding a lot more info to their website in the mean time, pending, I think,
making sure their proprietary information is properly protected. The cells
will need a BMS and I didn't get any assurance as to whether whatever Black
& Decker will use would be useful or available to us.
-- Peri Hartman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Wrote:
> Try CalCars.org 's "Prius+" project.
>
> http://www.calcars.org/priusplus.html
Yeah, that's what got me started thinking... but I'm talking about a
practical conversion here, not a $$$$$ research project.
And that is not my point, really. See, that is a INFINITE range hybrid:
"On the highway, it runs just like any other Prius, with the gasoline
engine doing most of the work -- and the extra batteries kicking in to
improve performance at ALL speeds."
The gas engine is much too big, and the EV system is too small (won't
take you on the freeway by itself). It's still a ICE-heavy hybrid
design. I'm talking about the flip side of the same idea, a
electric-heavy FINITE range hybrid design. When you accept a fixed range
(100-200 or so miles) regardless of how much gas you put it in, I think
you might be able to do this for a relatively affordable amount.
This is a (potential) idea for my street EV conversion of a previously
race converted 68 Datsun Roadster 2000. Very light, not a lot of room
for batteries, small frontal area (kinda between a midget and a sprite),
but BIG fully boxed reinforced frame rails with lots-o-cross bracing.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just found out that there is a Hawker battery plant about 5 miles
from here, within a half mile of that surplus outfit that liquidated
all the AVS bus parts.
I have a contact there and am going on a tour shortly. Unfortunately
this plant doesn't make anything we're interested in, only the huge
packs used in the AVS buses and the like.
Still, nice to have one in the neighborhood.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Evan and All,
Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yes, I wish I'd seen this before. It's
quite similar to what I'm
(gradually) building. The weight should be identical, it'll have
Li-Ion batteries though, and I doubt I'll be able to get the Cd that
low :)
Thanks for the link.
You can get as good Cd as that if you just design for it. It takes
no more materials, cost, just good design. In fact with lees aero drag, you can
lighten the costs as you need a smaller batt, Ev drive for the same
performance.
But they say something not true on the E301 Ev. They say they have
the record for low power comsumption at 9kw for 100Km in a 4 pass EV. Yet the
Sunrise did much better, averaging 100 wthrs/mile between boston and NY and
they did it without charging.
I did like their 3wheeler.
On the wheel motor, series hybrid front, on Motor Week onPBS this
week, Wavecrest had their EV bike which is no longer being made so was
interesting they showed it. But they also had a Smart that had wheel motors
doing the drive with both batts and a series generator so you may want to check
it out on your local PBS station.
Also of course my Freedom EV will have a removeable generator so
also a sometimes series hybrid that should get 100 mpg for unlimited range.
You all might want to check out this company www.horlacher.com for
cool composite EV's, They have a real good crash test there too.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
On 11/15/05, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> The website claims that it is capable of going 10,000 km (~6,000 miles) a
> year using a stationary 4.5sq. meter solar array.
> Hmm nice Cd, better than an Insight.
>
> > Jen
> > While I am not interested in the Hybrids- I found the
> > website interesting. Especially their E2 while was a
> > solar car 3 wheeler. Charged with only 4.5 sq. m of
> > solar cells. At least I assume charged as the small
> > clip was not specific. Looks alot like the old
> > fiberfab Scarab body with some mods for aerodynamics.
> > To bad they are not available as either plans or for
> > sale.
> >
> >>
> >> Hello Stefan,
> >>
> >> what you describe sounds like the TwinTrak
> >> drivetrain, invented and
> >> patented by the Swiss company Esoro in the early
> >> 90s:
> >>
> > http://www.esoro.ch/english/content/kernk/nhanst/h301/h.htm
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 01:55:16AM -0500, David Roden wrote:
> This has been discussed quite a bit in the past; see the archives.
Cool, thanks.
Being interested in EVs, I've found myself caught up in the inevitable
discussions regarding there viability.
I normally do not give a lot of though to these types of statements made by
auto manufactures.
The thing that struck me most about this statement was not the fact
that it brought up many of the same tired arguments against EVs, but the fact
that it was made by Solectria.
It's easier for me to understand why a large auto manufacturer with an existing
product and business model to protect would be inherently dissuaded against
seriously venturing into the EV market. And thus produce statements like
this in an attempt to discredit a potentially competitive industry.
Having said that, Solectrias only shot was EVs. This was the only market that
they were in, so if they were unsuccessful making and selling EVs, then they
had nothing else.
That's why I would tend to give more credence to any statements Solectria
would make on this topic.
Or am I way off base? :)
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
