EV Digest 4908
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Battery restraints (was: RE: CAD models for common EV components.)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Toyota RAV-4 EV sold for $53,000
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Mr Chris zack, Anyone Else Re Batteries And Charging projected range on
nicads
by "Michael Longley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: CAD models for common EV components.
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: CAD models for common EV components.
by "Christopher Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Hawkers in the Hood
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Just Joshin' Electric-car driver was not an eco-terrorist, FBI admits
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Motor pic site up
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) EV Terrorist?
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Toyota RAV-4 EV sold for $53,000
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Motor pic site up, link correction
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Please IGNORE Neon John (was: Re: Just Joshin' Electric-car driver ...)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Xebra EV
by "David Roden " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) EV museums
by "David Roden " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Toyota RAV-4 EV sold for $53,000
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Toyota RAV-4 EV sold for $53,000
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Xebra EV
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: unveiling the Gamera Nine
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Mr Chris zack, Anyone Else Re Batteries And Charging projected range
on nicads
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: CAD models for common EV components.
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: CAD models for common EV components.
by "Mueller, Craig M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Toyota RAV-4 EV sold for $53,000
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Motor pic site up
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Xebra EV and Zap EV's
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: CAD models for common EV components (3D and 2D).
by "Mueller, Craig M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Exactly none since I have owned it.
I intend to keep it that way.
Also all the lead is in the back trunk behind the engine and behind the
drivers compartment.
But I did Goldie years ago with just gravity... I would hold a battery in
place on Regen or heavy brake.
Not real smart... but..hey I am not dead either.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: Battery restraints (was: RE: CAD models for common EV
components.)
> Hey Rich,
> exactly how many crashes has that Fiero been in?
>
>
>
> > And then we have folks like me... I have run years without any battery
tie
> > downs... Gravity tie downs I call them.
> > Gee again I am not very Dead.
> >
> > Yes Goldie is NHRA Battery tie down legal.
> > The Fiero is not... and has not been raced.
> > And all the lead is stuffed in the back trunk. And Can't really move
> > anyway...unless I roll it.
> >
> > 20 Gs is quite a bit of overkill.. And I thought NEDRA was 10 Gs.
> >
> > Also we are not doing crash testing. At least on purpose.
> >
> > Lets keep the safety in line with reality...
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christopher Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 8:32 AM
> > Subject: Battery restraints (was: RE: CAD models for common EV
> > components.)
> >
> >
> >> Craig Mueller wrote:
> >>
> >> > -Craig
> >> > Electric Daytona
> >> > http://www.geocities.com/cmmuell/
> >>
> >> Ummm, I hope I'm wrong here and most likely am, but in all those
> >> pictures I see no battery hold-downs anywhere. At first I figured they
> >> just happened to have been removed when the pictures were taken, but
> >> looking closer I see nowhere for battery hold-downs to attach.
> >>
> >> For the benefit of the newbies and on the off chance that there are in
> >> fact no battery hold-downs in your car, let me *strenuously* suggest
you
> >> install some. Soon. The batteries under the hood are bad enough - the
> >> hood won't hold them, it will likely buckle and/or unlatch in a
> >> collision. The ones in the passenger compartment will literally pound
> >> you into a lifeless pulp in a moderately severe collision. A collision
> >> from which you might otherwise be able to walk away with only minor
> >> injuries.
> >>
> >> I believe NEDRA wants battery restraints to survive impacts of 8g
> >> lateral and 4g vertical. The Tour del Sol is more stringent (my copy
of
> >> the regs is dated 5/03), requiring 20g front impact, 10g side and rear,
> >> 5g rollover.
> >>
> >> Speaking very generally and assuming prudent design and construction,
> >> you can probably satisfy all these requirements using 1 x 1/8 angle
> >> steel in contact with at least two opposite edges of each individual
> >> battery. Use no less than one 3/8 bolt per every two batteries
> >> (depending on the size and shape of the pack in question), assuming
> >> proper distribution around the restraint to spread the load.
> >>
> >> People have been killed by flying objects as small as a cell phone in a
> >> collision. 60+ lb. batteries are not to be trifled with.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Except that this is not a Mercedes, Cadillac, or BMW. It is an old model
Toyota Rav 4 who's gas equivilant and functional superior could be picked up
at 10% - 20% of that price. BTW - I don't believe that the auction included
a lifetime supply of electricity, so whoever bought this is going to still
have to add electricity on a regular basis.
Now if it had one of those Tilley black boxes it would clearly be worth $53K
:-)
damon
From: Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Toyota RAV-4 EV sold for $53,000
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:45:12 -0800
The question is how many people today plunk down $53K for a car and still
have to add gasoline on a regular basis. Obviously not most people, but
enough to make business for Mercedes, Cadillac, BMW and many other
automakers. Is there a market for equivalent priced cars that never need
gas? I think so.
On Nov 16, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Chip Gribben wrote:
During our EVA/DC meeting yesterday Brian Murtha, who owns a RAV-4 EV,
turned to me and showed me a message on his Blackberry that said a RAV-4
EV on eBay just sold for $53,000. That's right $53,000!!
Bidding went pretty crazy during the last two minutes apparently. Anyone
else hear about this?
People are wanting EV's and paying the price to get the EV grin.
Chip, this is not quite "people". This was an individual
with $53k laying around for that kind of fun. Yes, there are
plenty of wealthy individuals, some of them willing to pay $53k
for a RAV4-EV. May be 20, may be 100. But even at 1000 mark,
it is not "people" (millions) as defined or seen by manufacturers.
No one will start producing anything for 1000 people - this
is rather in collectibles category.
What percentage do you think of US population needing EV
can plunk $53k for it in one shot, like this guy did?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok I Have Been On The Receiving End Of This List Now For A Least A Couple Of
Months.
First Time I Have Really Felt Able To Ask A Question, Except Once To Lee
Hart.
I Would Like To Have A Battery Setup Like CZACK, Below, And The Possibility
Of A Better Charger Like He
Wants.
Where Can I Buy High & Medium Grade Batteries.
I Checked Kokam, I Even Have 3 , 100 aH Batteries , 2.5 Volts 12X 14 X 3/4
Inches.
I'm Awaiting Word On A Motor And Drive For 45 KW AC.
Any Suggestions?? Anyone??
Also, Has Anyone Ever Heard Of An EV Museum, Other Than The Smithsonian. If
They Have One.
IF Anyone Has Been There, Let Me Know A Link, Or How It Is??
I'm Looking To Buy EV's From The Past To Donate To A Museum.
I'm Not Saying This To Get A Good Price, Although Price Is Important.
But I Really Want The Oldie But Goodie, Normal Wear And Tear Ok, This Is Not
A Hot Models Show,
But For Real People, That Wanted To Create A Miracle, Like I And Many Of You
Do. We All Want To See EV'S
Everywhere.
Please Help Me Find Batteries Chargers And EV's For The Museum.
If Anyone Finds Me Great Ev's That I Can Buy At A Fair Price, I Will
Compensate With An Honor For That EV
Shown On The Vehicle When Displayed, And Or Other Compensation
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Zach
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: projected range on nicads
> There aren't many options for charging a 336V pack, and what I gleaned
> from Lee Hart says that with the nicads, a rapid charge would give less
> overall gassing, so I'm saving pennies for a PFC 30, while hoping that the
> Madman deems it appropo to offer an automatic nicad charging profile in
> future.
As a point of reference, I am using a dumb-as-toast linear transformer
on an Elec-trak E20 to charge my pack of sixty BB600 batteries in a 2*30
configuration.
So far works like a charm. The E20 will charge the pack to 44 volts
@20a, then ramp down steeply to 2a at 45 volts. Brings the pack to full
charge with a .85 CEF and minimal gassing (haven't needed to add water yet)
In parallel charging I've noticed that the batteries suck different amp
amounts during the charge, but always even out within .1a. On discharge
they may go out of sync as much as an amp hour or two.
I'll be going to ninty batteries in a few weeks for the winter and might
run an additional thirty in an external pack for the snowblower.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just export the files to DXF format. That's the universal interchange
format that pretty much every CAD and drawing package can use.
That's a pretty old and very large uncompact file format. I think
there's newer better file format's.
The DXF format is THE format for universal interchange amongst different
apps. Every single CAD and 3D modeling program I have ever owned has
used it.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
> Just export the files to DXF format. That's the universal interchange
> format that pretty much every CAD and drawing package can use.
That works great if you want to hold a drawing in your hand. DXF is 2D.
It does you very little good if you want to create a 3D solid model.
I think some 3D packages let you capture elements from a DXF and use
them as a sketch basis from which to create 3D solids. I'm using
Alibre, which does not. So for me the only value of a 2D file is to
give me the dimensions I need to create a 3D model, but I still need to
create the model.
Designing in 2D has its advantages, but you're limited to static views.
For complex components and assemblies 3D is a real boon. But it is its
own special world, with little direct crossover to the 2D world. Any
repository of component info should ideally include both 2D and 3D
files, but 3D is so universal in today's mechanical design departments
that 2D is losing ground fast.
My vote would be for keeping files in a generic 3D format (my preference
is STEP). If anyone wants 2D files, it's trivially easy for anyone with
3D software to export a DXF of any view or views you'd like.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
maybe these batteries would work in a motor home sized
EV???
what are the specs??
kEVs
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:11:21 -0800, Mark Dodrill
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Very interesting. I wonder if one of the huge packs
> could be purchased and
> >divided up into smaller groups. I suppose it
> depends on how it is packaged.
>
> These are high capacity, moderate voltage packs such
> as used in
> forklifts and other industrial electric vehicles.
> Each cell is larger
> than several of the batteries we use. Maybe if we
> could come up with,
> say, a 10,000 amp, 12 volt design :-)
>
> John
>
> > Mark
> >
> > On 11/15/05, Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> I just found out that there is a Hawker battery
> plant about 5 miles
> >> from here, within a half mile of that surplus
> outfit that liquidated
> >> all the AVS bus parts.
> >>
> >> I have a contact there and am going on a tour
> shortly. Unfortunately
> >> this plant doesn't make anything we're interested
> in, only the huge
> >> packs used in the AVS buses and the like.
> >>
> >> Still, nice to have one in the neighborhood.
> >>
> >> John
> >> ---
> >> John De Armond
> >> See my website for my current email address
> >> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> >> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> >>
> >>
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:17:02 -0800, "Lawrence Rhodes"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>FROM THE DAILY GRIST
>
>
>The FBI will issue a rare "letter of regret" and pay environmentalist Josh
>Connole $100,000 after mistakenly arresting him for domestic terrorism.
>Agents followed Connole for several days in 2003, after arson-vandalism
>attacks at four Southern California car dealerships in which gas-guzzlers
>were spray-painted with phrases like "Fat, Lazy Americans." His suspicious
>activities included living communally with fellow vegans, installing solar
>panels, protesting the Iraq war, and (horrors!) driving an electric car.
Hmm, seems like a case where a little FBI-administered brutality was
completely justified. Too bad they didn't shoot him. Maybe they'll
lace the money with anthrax spores before they give it to him.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
I've been trying to get a web site up where I could at least share with you
all some pic's of motors and stuff. Do to my stupidity I won't have modem
internet again till the 19th. I finished up-loading some pics today at the
shop via dial-up (OMG). I decided to go ahead and give you guys a link rather
than wait till I add the latest, and some older pics. I tried to make it as
dial-up friendly but some of the pics take a bit to load but not to bad I hope.
I think you all should find it a useful tool as we discuss motor stuff. There
are some "glad I'm not that guy" pics up but I have alot more to post when my
cable is back up this weekend. Anyway I hope you all enjoy the site.
www.freewebs.com/hitorqueelectric/
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EV terrorist?
Just Joshin'
Electric-car driver was not an eco-terrorist, FBI admits
The FBI will issue a rare "letter of regret" and pay environmentalist
Josh Connole $100,000 after mistakenly arresting him for domestic
terrorism. Agents followed Connole for several days in 2003, after
arson-vandalism attacks at four Southern California car dealerships in
which gas-guzzlers were spray-painted with phrases like "Fat, Lazy
Americans." His suspicious activities included living communally with
fellow vegans, installing solar panels, protesting the Iraq war, and
(horrors!) driving an electric car. When Connole caught on to the
surveillance and approached local law enforcement for help, FBI agents
arrested him, held him for four days -- often chained to a floor -- and
prodded him to confess to the arsons. But oopsie! Another guy did it,
and even wrote to the Los Angeles Times mocking the FBI for arresting
the wrong man. Asks Bill Paparian, Connole's lawyer, "How does advocacy
of electric cars become the basis for suspicion?" Now please excuse us
while we check the office for bugs ...
From Charlie Garlow,
Vice President
EVA/DC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marc has a good point. There are thousands of car buyers plunking down
up to $53,000 for Mercedes, Cads, Hummers and Bimmers everyday. A
loaded SUV with leather and all the options could easily catch 50
grand. Then many of them spend another several thousand dollars on
custom wheels and tires.
With all the long term loans, leases and creative financing available
today many people are buying cars they couldn't afford years ago.
Granted EVs will be on the high side as long as production of cars and
batteries is limited but with all the available financing more people
could possibly afford them. On top of that add tax credits or benefits
as an incentive.
Chip
From: Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:45:12 PM US/Eastern
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Toyota RAV-4 EV sold for $53,000
The question is how many people today plunk down $53K for a car and
still have to add gasoline on a regular basis. Obviously not most
people, but enough to make business for Mercedes, Cadillac, BMW and
many other automakers. Is there a market for equivalent priced cars
that never need gas? I think so.
On Nov 16, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Chip Gribben wrote:
During our EVA/DC meeting yesterday Brian Murtha, who owns a RAV-4 EV,
turned to me and showed me a message on his Blackberry that said a
RAV-4 EV on eBay just sold for $53,000. That's right $53,000!!
Bidding went pretty crazy during the last two minutes apparently.
Anyone else hear about this?
People are wanting EV's and paying the price to get the EV grin.
Chip, this is not quite "people". This was an individual
with $53k laying around for that kind of fun. Yes, there are
plenty of wealthy individuals, some of them willing to pay $53k
for a RAV4-EV. May be 20, may be 100. But even at 1000 mark,
it is not "people" (millions) as defined or seen by manufacturers.
No one will start producing anything for 1000 people - this
is rather in collectibles category.
What percentage do you think of US population needing EV
can plunk $53k for it in one shot, like this guy did?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry all.
Lets try this being the last link didn't even come up for me, lol.
This one came up (checked twice)
http://www.freewebs.com/hitorqueelectric/index.htm
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 16 Nov 2005 at 16:54, Neon John wrote:
>
> Hmm, seems like a case where a little FBI-administered brutality was
> completely justified.
I was afraid that Neon John would use this as an excuse to make such a
comment. I'm sorry to say this is the usual.
Folks, please ignore this post and all of NJ's future posts in which he
displays his trollish attitude. NJ gets his jollies annoying certain kinds
of people, of which there's a fair number on this list. What he wants more
than anything else is to prompt an indignant response. DON'T indulge him!
NJ is not worth responding to or arguing with. It's a waste of bandwidth -
and more importantly of your time and effort. Just smile a little at his
amusing antics, then hit DELETE and move on. Better yet, add him to your
email filter so you never see this stuff.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 16 Nov 2005 at 12:25, Sherry Boschert wrote:
> The vehicle is manufactured in
> Santa Rosa
Really? Who's building it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They don't say anything about it on their website, but I believe the Boyertown
(PA) Museum has an historical EV collection. The Eastern Electric Vehicle
Club in the Philadelpia area has had some dealings with them in the past.
http://www.boyertownmuseum.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Holy crap! There has got to be a way to turn this travisty to our
advantage. A car that sold for 28k is now sold used for almost twice.
Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 8:40 AM
Subject: Toyota RAV-4 EV sold for $53,000
During our EVA/DC meeting yesterday Brian Murtha, who owns a RAV-4 EV,
turned to me and showed me a message on his Blackberry that said a RAV-4
EV on eBay just sold for $53,000. That's right $53,000!!
Bidding went pretty crazy during the last two minutes apparently. Anyone
else hear about this?
People are wanting EV's and paying the price to get the EV grin.
Chip Gribben
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Perhaps the purchaser has rooftop solar. He/she may have already
bought that lifetime supply of electricity.
On Nov 16, 2005, at 1:21 PM, damon henry wrote:
Except that this is not a Mercedes, Cadillac, or BMW. It is an
old model Toyota Rav 4 who's gas equivilant and functional superior
could be picked up at 10% - 20% of that price. BTW - I don't
believe that the auction included a lifetime supply of electricity,
so whoever bought this is going to still have to add electricity on
a regular basis.
Now if it had one of those Tilley black boxes it would clearly be
worth $53K :-)
damon
From: Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Toyota RAV-4 EV sold for $53,000
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:45:12 -0800
The question is how many people today plunk down $53K for a car
and still have to add gasoline on a regular basis. Obviously not
most people, but enough to make business for Mercedes, Cadillac,
BMW and many other automakers. Is there a market for equivalent
priced cars that never need gas? I think so.
On Nov 16, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Chip Gribben wrote:
During our EVA/DC meeting yesterday Brian Murtha, who owns a
RAV-4 EV, turned to me and showed me a message on his
Blackberry that said a RAV-4 EV on eBay just sold for $53,000.
That's right $53,000!!
Bidding went pretty crazy during the last two minutes
apparently. Anyone else hear about this?
People are wanting EV's and paying the price to get the EV grin.
Chip, this is not quite "people". This was an individual
with $53k laying around for that kind of fun. Yes, there are
plenty of wealthy individuals, some of them willing to pay $53k
for a RAV4-EV. May be 20, may be 100. But even at 1000 mark,
it is not "people" (millions) as defined or seen by manufacturers.
No one will start producing anything for 1000 people - this
is rather in collectibles category.
What percentage do you think of US population needing EV
can plunk $53k for it in one shot, like this guy did?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David and All,
The article said Zap was building it. Not likely or maybe doing
a final assembly of it built by someone else in another country. Zap probably
just puts the batts in.
I hope the Gov buying them make sure there is a bond to get
their money back.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 16 Nov 2005 at 12:25, Sherry Boschert wrote:
> The vehicle is manufactured in
> Santa Rosa
Really? Who's building it?
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mr. Gadget,
That adapter design is frickin' brilliant, if you don't mind my saying
so.
Welcome to the fray! Is LCC going to be selling products like your
adapter, or are you sticking to the conversion business?
Now some questions and comments regarding your adapter design: on my
aircooled VW transaxle, the pilot shaft normally fits into what VW
calls a "gland nut" for some reason, although it's really a hollow bolt
with a pilot bearing inside. The point being, that an unmodified VW
pilot shaft probably won't work with your method, it would need to be
turned down and shortened. If you're doing a kit for sale, you might
want to include a modified pilot shaft as an option.
The next question: do you fit a pilot bearing inside the pilot hole
drilled into the motor shaft? If not, why not?
Good luck with LCC, and thanks for posting the pics of your innovative
conversion work.
Later,
Doug
On Nov 15, 2005, at 11:50 AM, Reverend Gadget wrote:
Hello Jay and all,
I posted the Gadget flywheel adaptor 2.0 on my new
website. It might just work for you with no welding
required. I like this method ALOT. the whole process
to make the adaptor took less than 2 hours. (machine
shop required) check it out at
leftcoastconversions.com
Gadget
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:06:48 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Unveiling the Gamera Nine
To: [email protected]
That's right, listers and lurkers, you heard it
first from the Maker. Jim Husted's latest creation
has left the nest. This super-shortened 9" with a
tailshaft has both adjustable brush rigging and
coils plumbed for series-parallel shifting. More
info on the motor and it's funny name are online at
www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
Cheers,
Jay Donnaway
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would consider selling my `91 Conceptor G-van. Near mint cond, only 5,500
miles, onboard Martin Marietta charger and offboard weathersealed Chloride
battery charger and Avcon dongle included. Batteries NOT included. Contact
me OL if this might be of interest. David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Longley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 9:01 AM
Subject: Mr Chris zack, Anyone Else Re Batteries And Charging projected
range on nicads
Ok I Have Been On The Receiving End Of This List Now For A Least A Couple
Of
Months.
First Time I Have Really Felt Able To Ask A Question, Except Once To Lee
Hart.
I Would Like To Have A Battery Setup Like CZACK, Below, And The
Possibility
Of A Better Charger Like He
Wants.
Where Can I Buy High & Medium Grade Batteries.
I Checked Kokam, I Even Have 3 , 100 aH Batteries , 2.5 Volts 12X 14 X 3/4
Inches.
I'm Awaiting Word On A Motor And Drive For 45 KW AC.
Any Suggestions?? Anyone??
Also, Has Anyone Ever Heard Of An EV Museum, Other Than The Smithsonian.
If
They Have One.
IF Anyone Has Been There, Let Me Know A Link, Or How It Is??
I'm Looking To Buy EV's From The Past To Donate To A Museum.
I'm Not Saying This To Get A Good Price, Although Price Is Important.
But I Really Want The Oldie But Goodie, Normal Wear And Tear Ok, This Is
Not
A Hot Models Show,
But For Real People, That Wanted To Create A Miracle, Like I And Many Of
You
Do. We All Want To See EV'S
Everywhere.
Please Help Me Find Batteries Chargers And EV's For The Museum.
If Anyone Finds Me Great Ev's That I Can Buy At A Fair Price, I Will
Compensate With An Honor For That EV
Shown On The Vehicle When Displayed, And Or Other Compensation
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Zach
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: projected range on nicads
There aren't many options for charging a 336V pack, and what I gleaned
from Lee Hart says that with the nicads, a rapid charge would give less
overall gassing, so I'm saving pennies for a PFC 30, while hoping that
the
Madman deems it appropo to offer an automatic nicad charging profile in
future.
As a point of reference, I am using a dumb-as-toast linear transformer
on an Elec-trak E20 to charge my pack of sixty BB600 batteries in a 2*30
configuration.
So far works like a charm. The E20 will charge the pack to 44 volts
@20a, then ramp down steeply to 2a at 45 volts. Brings the pack to full
charge with a .85 CEF and minimal gassing (haven't needed to add water
yet)
In parallel charging I've noticed that the batteries suck different amp
amounts during the charge, but always even out within .1a. On discharge
they may go out of sync as much as an amp hour or two.
I'll be going to ninty batteries in a few weeks for the winter and might
run an additional thirty in an external pack for the snowblower.
Chris
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A year ago I did an in-depth analysis of CAD packages. Chris is correct, a
lot of CAD packages do not handle 2D/3D properly but there are a few notable
exceptions.
Here are two CAD packages that handle 2D and 3D just fine. I have worked
extensively with both, and find that for their respective prices they are
very good.
For those on a small budget, check out Design CAD 3D Max. You can get it
for $99. 2D designs are simply views of the 3D model (just as in the real
world).
For those wanting to do very serious CAD work try SolidWorks. It costs
around $5000. This is a very easy to use package with a very feature rich
suite of tools such as finite element analysis (called COSMOS). It is very
common product amongst mechanical engineers. It is very easy to create
drafting 2D diagrams from the 3D models. If you are a student, you can get
a student copy for $150.
Good luck!
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher Tromley
Sent: November 16, 2005 1:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: CAD models for common EV components.
Neon John wrote:
> Just export the files to DXF format. That's the universal interchange
> format that pretty much every CAD and drawing package can use.
That works great if you want to hold a drawing in your hand. DXF is 2D.
It does you very little good if you want to create a 3D solid model.
I think some 3D packages let you capture elements from a DXF and use them as
a sketch basis from which to create 3D solids. I'm using Alibre, which does
not. So for me the only value of a 2D file is to give me the dimensions I
need to create a 3D model, but I still need to create the model.
Designing in 2D has its advantages, but you're limited to static views.
For complex components and assemblies 3D is a real boon. But it is its own
special world, with little direct crossover to the 2D world. Any repository
of component info should ideally include both 2D and 3D files, but 3D is so
universal in today's mechanical design departments that 2D is losing ground
fast.
My vote would be for keeping files in a generic 3D format (my preference is
STEP). If anyone wants 2D files, it's trivially easy for anyone with 3D
software to export a DXF of any view or views you'd like.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
Excellent points regarding weight. In my opinion, the outer box
dimensions of a given component with characteristic features (e.g.
six-pack design of an optima battery, or heat sink surface to a Curtis
controller) should be plenty adequate. I share your observation that
making simple models for large assembly modeling is necessary, and the
added time in details would likely go unappreciated in the grand scheme.
My intent with such a model is to provide a clear schematic and
transparent 3D model of the assemble vehicle. Even FEA models can
benefit tremendously from these little approximate models (e.g. thermal
transfer model of a battery pack in MN winters).
Would you be interested in tossing the models on
3dcontentcentral or would you like to set up a EV specific location?
Best regards,
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Tromley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: CAD models for common EV components.
Craig Mueller wrote:
> I'm doing some similar modeling (3D CAD) - Using Alibre and
> SolidWorks... let me know what you might be interested in. I'd
certainly
> be willing to toss .step or .igs files on the internet for download.
>
> One source for files (free) that may be of interest is
>
> http://www.3dcontentcentral.com/3DContentCentral/cc_frame.asp
>
> I'd place components at this location. We may be able to
> convince the site administrators to set-up an EV Components
directory!?
>
> Let me know what you have in mind (on or off-list).
Hi Craig,
I'm doing some modeling in Alibre as well and I'm willing to donate any
generic component models I generate. George Tylinsky was good enough to
give me his models for group 34 Orbital and Optima batteries, which was
a welcome time-saver.
One question that arises is how detailed the models should be. For
example I have very basic models of a Zilla Z1k and Z2k that work fine
for my current needs. To make them absolutely complete and perfectly
representative would take much more time, might double or triple their
file size and slow assembly regeneration, panning/zooming, etc.
Also when uploading these files it would be helpful to include the
weight of the item. Density information is not transferred in the
generic STEP file (or IGES?), so a weight is needed to enter that data
in your native application.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Let's forget about Mercedes, Cadillac, or BMW.
How about a Hummer H2? It gets 8MPG, handles like a
brick, cramp cabin, can't even fit in the garage,
replacement tires are very expensive if you can find
them (because they are all going to Iraq), dangerous
to both the occupans and to others etc., and they go
for >$50k a piece. GM has done its marketing and
comercials so well that they created a market for this
type of "useless" vehicle.
Underneath the H2 is a sub-urban chassis that cost
half of an H2, carries 8, handles better, gets better
MPG etc.
Ed Ang
AIR Lab Corp.
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Except that this is not a Mercedes, Cadillac, or
> BMW. It is an old model
> Toyota Rav 4 who's gas equivilant and functional
> superior could be picked up
> at 10% - 20% of that price. BTW - I don't believe
> that the auction included
> a lifetime supply of electricity, so whoever bought
> this is going to still
> have to add electricity on a regular basis.
>
> Now if it had one of those Tilley black boxes it
> would clearly be worth $53K
> :-)
>
> damon
>
>
> >From: Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Re: Toyota RAV-4 EV sold for $53,000
> >Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:45:12 -0800
> >
> >The question is how many people today plunk down
> $53K for a car and still
> >have to add gasoline on a regular basis. Obviously
> not most people, but
> >enough to make business for Mercedes, Cadillac, BMW
> and many other
> >automakers. Is there a market for equivalent
> priced cars that never need
> >gas? I think so.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Nov 16, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Victor Tikhonov
> wrote:
> >
> >>Chip Gribben wrote:
> >>>During our EVA/DC meeting yesterday Brian Murtha,
> who owns a RAV-4 EV,
> >>>turned to me and showed me a message on his
> Blackberry that said a RAV-4
> >>> EV on eBay just sold for $53,000. That's right
> $53,000!!
> >>>Bidding went pretty crazy during the last two
> minutes apparently. Anyone
> >>>else hear about this?
> >>>People are wanting EV's and paying the price to
> get the EV grin.
> >>
> >>Chip, this is not quite "people". This was an
> individual
> >>with $53k laying around for that kind of fun. Yes,
> there are
> >>plenty of wealthy individuals, some of them
> willing to pay $53k
> >>for a RAV4-EV. May be 20, may be 100. But even at
> 1000 mark,
> >>it is not "people" (millions) as defined or seen
> by manufacturers.
> >>
> >>No one will start producing anything for 1000
> people - this
> >>is rather in collectibles category.
> >>
> >>What percentage do you think of US population
> needing EV
> >>can plunk $53k for it in one shot, like this guy
> did?
> >>
> >>Victor
> >>
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great start, Jim. I really enjoy motor pix :-)
I have some questions.
In the Warp 9 photo series, you show some unbaked banding. That looks
like filament packing tape. Is that what you're using?
Referencing the same photo, have you given any consideration to
banding the bearing end of the commutator, perhaps by machining a
groove at the end and wrapping with kevlar thread and epoxy? I'm
thinking about doing that to my hotrodded CitiCar motor to make it
more likely to withstand high RPM operation. I'm interested in your
thoughts.
I've kevlar banded both ends of the windings down to the comm bar
risers and have observed the armature with a Strobotach while running
it at 8000 RPM on the bench. I saw absolutely no movement. I'm still
concerned about the bearing end of the comm, particularly when it is
hot.
In the last photo in the TinyTim series, you show a Warp 9 armature
next to the little motor. Is the white band in the center of the Warp
9 armature banding? Is this something you added or does the Warp
armature come that way?
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:56:03 -0800 (PST), Jim Husted
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hey all
>
> I've been trying to get a web site up where I could at least share with you
> all some pic's of motors and stuff. Do to my stupidity I won't have modem
> internet again till the 19th. I finished up-loading some pics today at the
> shop via dial-up (OMG). I decided to go ahead and give you guys a link
> rather than wait till I add the latest, and some older pics. I tried to make
> it as dial-up friendly but some of the pics take a bit to load but not to bad
> I hope. I think you all should find it a useful tool as we discuss motor
> stuff. There are some "glad I'm not that guy" pics up but I have alot more
> to post when my cable is back up this weekend. Anyway I hope you all enjoy
> the site.
> www.freewebs.com/hitorqueelectric/
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out their used EV's
http://www.zapworld.com/cars/salecars.asp
My 1984 Fiero is on that link.
They didn't even update the picture, it's shown in my
driveway in OH and is for sale in CA?
I sold it to Jim Wierick in Barberton, OH for $800, no
batteries.
Jim drove it for a couple of years and sold it to ZAP
for $1500 plus stock (I told Jim the stock papers may
be usefull if he runs out of toilet paper).
So, now it's listed for $9500!
Quite a markup.
I wonder how much they're paying for 3 wheel cracker
box on wheels?
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While DXF is truly the universal standard in 2D work, I must vote 3D
(solid models). With at least a couple 3D programs available (links
below), formats like .igs or .step would be extremely useful. The linked
library (included again for convenience) provides models in 2D and 3D
proprietary and universal formats, including .jpg and .tiff for users
who don't have CAD software or interest.
SolidWorks Personal Edition:
http://www.solidworks.com/pages/news/3DSkills.html
Alibre Design Express:
http://www.alibre.com/xpress/software/alibre-design-xpress.asp
CAD Models (go to User Library):
http://www.3dcontentcentral.com/
Note: I find the User Library far more valuable than the Supplier
Certified, but EV component suppliers may find it useful to put their
models at this location. To access the 'User Library', you must register
(---I have not received any spam from them over the two years or so
since I've registered...FYI)
-Craig
Electric Daytona
http://www.geocities.com/cmmuell/
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Letton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 12:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CAD models for common EV components.
I have to agree with John on this one. DXF is still the universal 2D
drawing interchange format.
cheers,
Andrew
Rich Rudman wrote:
>That's a pretty old and very large uncompact file format.
>
>I think there's newer better file format's.
>
>Rich Rudman
>Manzanita Micro
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:13 AM
>Subject: Re: CAD models for common EV components.
>
>
>
>
>>On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 09:00:36 -0800, "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Cad files for EV components???
>>>
>>>We have Acad files on all the Manzanita Micro chargers. But we are
using
>>>
>>>
>a
>
>
>>>very old version of Acad Lite.
>>>We could supply model files for customers... I just have never
thought
>>>about it.
>>>
>>>
>>Just export the files to DXF format. That's the universal interchange
>>format that pretty much every CAD and drawing package can use.
>>
>>John
>>---
>>John De Armond
>>See my website for my current email address
>>http://www.johngsbbq.com
>>Cleveland, Occupied TN
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
