EV Digest 4921
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV production! and Sunrise EV, Freedom EV update
by "Don B. Davidson III" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Radio Interference
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Radio Interference
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV production! and Sunrise EV, Freedom EV update
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Radio Interference, comments
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV production! Who's interested in figuring out how to make $
at this!
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Radio Interference, comments
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Radio Interference
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: PFC-20/30 charger as a External Portable Charger?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Dual motor setup
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) EV - Motorcycle CROSSES the USA
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Radio Interference, comments
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: New guy on te block
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: New guy on te block
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV production! and Sunrise EV, Freedom EV update
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
If you are considering a practical mass produced EV, look into the history
of Jet Industries Electravan manufactured from 1979-1983 based on a Subaru
600 microvan. Plenty of room for 4 passengers and or lots of cargo. See my
websites for images: www.spaces.msn.com/members/dbd3
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/662.html
Plenty of owners across the US maintaining this vehicle. Very active DL
supporting the Electravan. The facility was located in Austin, TX that
converted the Subaru 600 to an EV. The owner sold in 1983 to a con artist
who ran the business into the ground and was also arrested. The idea is
practical. The only impractical component in EV's generally speaking is the
batteries. Heavy, bulky and must add water regularly. I was involved with
EV's back in the 1980's and in my opinion, there has been little if any
improvement in lead acid wet cell battery technology in the past 30 years
:-(
Don Davidson
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: EV production! and Sunrise EV, Freedom EV update
> Hi Bob, Jeff and All,
>
> Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Shanab"
>
>
> > I think AC propulsion aimed a little to high. Most people see them as
> > making the t-zero as there product.
> > an 80K sportscar 2 seater is already a very slim market. I am thinking
> > a much more modest 2+2 sedan of which I think there is a market iff you
> > can hit the price point.
> >
> > Tropica, another 2 seater open top sports car. Personally what I want
> > but NOT the way to start a car company.
> > Tango.... see a pattern?
> > Hi Jeff;
>
> Yes I see your point and pattern.
>
> I agree. I studied all the EV companies to see what worked and
what didn't the above became obvious amoung many other points. That and they
all started too big instead of small and grown from there.
>
>
>
> > If we commit ourselfs to being a car company like existing car companies
> > then I may have to agree with john, but going electric and composite
> > opens up possibilities. Think Solectria Sunrise. Great name,great
> > chassis why didn't that flourish? well I never heard of it untill after
> > it was gone. Hopefully jerry can ressurect that.
> >
> Several years ago the Sunrise had it's 15 minutes of fame, gees! Was
> it THAT long, like my writeup in my local paper.It made the front of the
> Metro or Biz section of the NY Times, you know? "All the news that Fits We
> Print"Forgotten, except to us EVers. Sunrise stomped all the other
homegrown
> stuff at the Tour De Sol, and was forgotten. Sigh! Nobody with deep
pockets
> stepped up to the plate and but some bux behind it.
>
> Fast forward to today, with Solectria merged away, Jame's dream of
> seeing Sunrise go into production about died. We are his sorta last hope
to
> see the car get EVen linited production. Hence the feeding frenzy on E Bey
> to buy the shell that we did. We have been passed the torch, so to speak.I
> have a few thousand bux into this as well as several guyz here, ya know
who
> you are. I thank you, as we're all into it now.Thank you all for the
support
> for my(Our) dream of a production EV.
>
> Yes, without your support Bob and others, getting EV's into
production would still be several yrs away! Thanks to all of you!!
>
>
>
> > My design aim is $12k to $15k 2+2 hatchback variation that can accept 1
> > or 2 powerpacks(motor and controller), 1 or 2 batterypacks. and is the
> > cheapest car to insure. This is an important point for makeing a daily
> > driver.
> > You can add a second power pack in hours and a second battery in
> > minutes. It has a few other special features.
> >
>
> A page right out of Jerry's Plan. Perhaps a 2 seater, I mean BACK seat
> can be added in a stretched Freedom, 4 wheels for a Basic , bare bones
small
> car.
>
> The main market for my Freedom EV is EVer's, commuters,
seniors, college students, women where a 2 seater is the way to go.
Regretfully with the federal regulations it limits new manufactures to the 3
wh configuration for start ups at a reasonable cost.. This also precludes 4
seats though an extra child seat or 2 is possible.
> But if you look at demographics, 2 seaters match them much
better now days with the smaller households, higher energy prices. And women
love them !!.
> You don't need a EV to fit everyone, just to fill a market.
Just the market for them here in Fla will take me yrs to fill, if ever.
With the 25+ million vehicle market/ yr in the US, you only need a sliver of
it to be successful.
>
>
>
> > It can handle 2 adults and 2 children and maybe a baby seat between the
> > 2 kids.
>
> The Sunrise follow on, probably to be called the Freedom 4 EV,
will have seating for 5-6 due to it's width but can only be sold as an
almost finished kit with the buyer installing, or having installed, the
batts and motor to satify the fed regs. Bringing a 4wh EV to fed rules would
cost over $5 million so not going to happen anytime soon by me.
> The same chassis could be used for a Mini van, SUV, Pickup,
Van.
>
> > No shipping finished cars around the country
> > Approved dealers must have service bays, so they are trained and they
> > assemble, on site, to order.
> > this franchise model can be a 2 man or a 20 man operation when there
> > are no orders they pre assemble the most complicated part, the dash.
> >
>
> Jerry's plan, to be able to ship out the molds and basic stuff ya need
> to produce cars, any handy, roomy ,industrial bldg will do.
>
> Yes as my composite designs are inherently low production of
about 4,000/yr per factory, many small factories will be needed around the
country to build the required number for the market which is probably well
over 100,000/yr if built for a reasonable price. And at $13k each, there is
a large profit built into them as I've designed out the labor, parts count,
weight, costs out of it..
> How I'll do that is franchise them and sell factories in a box,
actually a 40' shipping container with everything to start building EV's
including training. This I hope will lead to many small companies building
EV's which will slowly diverge making many different EV's for a broader
selection.
>
>
>
> > I don't think a single actor has enough funds to start a car company,
> > but if they wanted to quit their day job might have enough clout to get
> > investors attention. Probably best to hire the actor as your
> > spokeperson putting them on the "board"
>
> In our case ANY actor that can afford a hummer, The Governator comes
> to mind!Would send Jerry a check for WHAT that #$%^ Hummer cost, we'd be
> on our way, faster!
>
> That would be nice not having to nickle and dime on
everything. But if you wait for that, you, I may never get EV's into
production. So I designed my Freedom EV to be put into production for the
least amount of money possible and be sucessful which looks like the way to
go. Not easy, takes longer, but more likely.
> Though, not there haven't been setbacks like this week where
the chassis mold tooling turned out being a few inches different from the
body tooling, thus having to redesign, rebuild the chassis tooling some.
But these things are normal and you just deal with it and keep on going.
Regretfully it has set me back a week.
> It will be finished, ready for it's coming out party at the Fla
EAA races in January though.
>
> >
> > the 2 hardest things, coming up with a company name, and crash testing
> > regulations. I could use help with both.
> >
>
> Better, cheaper is just go around them by building an almost
finished EV kit, just like the kitcar, aircraft companies do. Start up that
way until you can finance the fed reg compliance. The good way to get
started is finding the path of least resistance.
> One could get an exemption like Panoz has for limited
production for a few yrs at least for turn key EV's..
>
> So could we, I think Jerry has set up a LLC for now? Jerry? Got yur ears
> on?
> I think " Freedom" is a go, although somebody else may own that?
>
> No they can't use Freedom EV as I've been using it for yrs and
any web search will pop that up. My company is called Gerald Dycus
Enterprises though, Freedom EV is the model name.
>
>
> Sunrise? well we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
>
> The priority is the Freedom EV though would entertain proposals
on the Sunrise to get it into production faster. I'm for getting EV's into
production much more than anything else so whatever it takes, I'm for.
> I just wanted to make sure the Sunrise was saved as it's about
the best EV ever built. If I build it or someone else makes no difference to
me. I do have the body, chassis to make production molds from and all the
info, parts numbers, expertise, needed to do that.
> But it's going to take $50-100k that I don't have for quite a
while. I would be happy to put it into production for someone else ,
building the tooling, setting up, starting the production line if someone
was interested.
>
> Thanks,
> Jerry Dycus
> >
> Seeya
> > Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These are good suggestions. Here are a couple more:
My Skoda EVs were made with braid shielding over the HV cables and the DC-DC
converter input and output wires were passed through a ferrite toroid
(wrapped once around). Even the AM band is usable on the not-that-good
cheap aftermarket radios (Koss) I installed.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Farver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: Radio Interference
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a Curtis 1231C and 8 inch ADC motor in my car.
When I put my foot on the pedal the radio gets serious interference.
Does anyone have a simple cure?
Check the condition of your brushes.
Was the front/back batteries cables placed side to side? (if positive runs
up one side of the car, and neg the other you will gets lots of
interference. As Otmar advises, avoid making anything like a loop.
The AM band is almost never usable, the FM usually works well. If you're
having problems with the FM:
Try finding where the interference is getting into the radio. Disconnect
your DC/DC and run the radio from the battery and see if the problem
reduces any. If it does additional filtering on the radio's power leads
may eliminate the problem.
If it doesn't try looking at the radio's antenna lead, does it run near
any power carring conductors. Can the antenna or its wiring be moved?
Do you have another radio to try, the quality of receivers in aftermarket
radios varies widely, stock radios are generally good. See if you can
find one with less issues.
Good luck.. noise hunting is tedious, but it should work out.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am gonna guess that AC systems are much less noisy in the RF
department. I have been around a lot of high power industrial equipment
and the only 2 sources of rf noise is the mechanical relays pulling in
and the EDM machine, lets see EDM is electrical Discharge machineing,
take AC, rectify it to DC then push a adjsutable PWM square wave to a
carbon electrode and let it spark away metal. Sound familiar? bssssst.
Heck Our machine operators set radio's on top of the machines, some with
300Amps of 480V 3Phase running thru them.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I very much like Jerry's plan and wish him the best of luck. I wish I
had money and time off to throw his way.
But, in California there is an issue. and it may pertain to other states
as well. There is a hard number of kits per year allowed in the state.
If I use them up, the hot-rod crowd would be left with none, and it
limits me to a specific quantity. IF i am limited to 200 or 500 a year
I can't purchase the quantities needed to get the prices per unit.
In the long run, I think jumping past the "flying under radar" and
"avoiding crash testing" image is the way for this to become more
mainstream.
In order for bodies to be made faster, those will be produced at the
main plant with some pretty elaborate and large equipment. Also if they
have been crash tested, I don't think I can actually sell a mold to
people and still keep the crash testing valid.
My thought, and the thought of a colleague that has utilized investors
before, is that there is a minimum quantity that will be found that will
dictate the costs, and a company must hit the ground running with that
minimum quantity at that price point or they cannot make it. Lots can be
done to change that quantity but an initial offering of 1000 units will
only work with contracts for more.
ie 100 motors 50% off of list
1000 motors 75% off list and I can dictate part of the design
10000 motors 25% of list and it is my design.
same will hold for batteries and controllers and chargers but no
where near the same numbers. an optimum will have to be found.
A lot of parts will absolutly have to be generic, I mean I can't use a
single part that I would have to buy from GM or they can easily stomp me
out. That doesn't mean I can't use the parts, it just means I must buy
from bendix and dana and muncie, parts that are sold to multiple models
and hope that those companies aren't susceptable to coercion. In fact I
may use non-american sources just to lessen that risk.
I will have to expect and prepare for a fight. Jerry's grass root
movement may actually be the way to avoid detection until it is to
late. My method almost invites a conforntation and a media circus. If
both of us succeed, all the better!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I seem not to get hardly any radio interference at all. It may be the 12 volt
ground buss system I have install, that goes to every ground point in the car.
The ground wire ranges from 2/0 to No.10 AWG multi-strand insulated copper wire
that terminates at standoff connectors.
I never like the sheet metal of the car as a 12 volt negative carrier. Also the
battery pack and main DC lines are also isolated from the frame of the car. If
you have a on board non-isolated battery charger that is connected to your
battery pack while its connected to the controller, you could get a feed back
through the battery charger that may be grounded to the frame. I install
isolated AC contactors on the feed side and isolated DC contactors on the load
side of the battery charger circuits. The battery charger is in a insulated
enclosure.
I running a AM-FM-CD-Tape Radio made by Sony. If I get off channel or off the
station frequency , I do get static, but when I on channel, it's clear as a
bell.
It also could be, that I am using a DC-AC filter inverter, that is used to
power AC motors instead of DC motors.
Another thing, I have done, is to install a large blower fan on the brush cover
in addition to the internal motor fan. This blows all the brush carbon dust
out. A clean motor will start out with over 20 meg.ohms from any motor
connections to ground. After about 5 years this could get down to 50 K ohms
where it may need to be clean out. Cleaning the brush carbon that may track
from the commentator to the motor shaft will increase the resistance and reduce
the static.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Rice<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: Radio Interference, comments
Hi Rod;
Ya might as well forget about radios, in EV's! Maybe GM and Toyota
cleaned up all the electrical hash around a running EV?But we haven't. The
motor brushes arc a little, the electronic controllers are just plain NOISY
electrically!! You may be able to listen to FM a bit, but my Rapter wipes
out ALL the AM, and most of the FM. Get yourself a good Tape or CD player,
radio? Forgetaboutit! A Victrola in the back seat<g>!Or go to a contactor
controller<g>Maybe AC systems are electrically "Cleaner?"
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 7:54 AM
Subject: Radio Interference
>
>
> I have a Curtis 1231C and 8 inch ADC motor in my car.
> When I put my foot on the pedal the radio gets serious interference.
> Does anyone have a simple cure?
> Rod Dilkes
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No shipping finished cars around the country
Approved dealers must have service bays, so they are trained and they
assemble, on site, to order.
this franchise model can be a 2 man or a 20 man operation when there
are no orders they pre assemble the most complicated part, the dash.
Now there is good idea, IMHO... I would be willing to put up my ill-gotten dot
com stock sell off gains (currently saving for a home purchase) to start a
franchise on that vein.
One thing everyone seems to have forgotten about past successful car launches is the marketing. History has shown us that the eventual profitability of an automobile has never been completely proportional to it's level of financing. Or whether industry "experts" thought that there was a current viable market for it. At the time, most thought that there was no market for the beetle, or the mustang, or the thunderbird... all icons because they helped us realize what we wanted at the time (and didn't even know it). They helped create a new market through careful positioning of the product (and some luck). The initial mustang development is especially interesting to study. Talk about a rags-to riches story.
My point is simply that one cannot underestimate the importance of a
well-thought out, carefully planned, and imaginative marketing plan. Find out
who your target audience is (most important of all), and design it all around
them. What they want, what they value, and how to reach them. Building a better
widget has never been what consumer industry is all about. It's about giving
them what they want, or just helping them realize that they want what you
happen to have. ;)
(BTW, look at the recent Scion thing... talk about marketing overcoming
preconceptions and product limitations)
The best business plan in the world will end up amounting to a hill of beans
without a DARN GOOD product positioning and market awareness strategy. I'd try
to get that discussion started first.
Anyone? Brainstorms? Points-to-ponder?
-- Peanut Gallery --
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Satellite Radio? (XM, Sirius)
Has anyone tried this? You can run a SR tuner straight to an amplifier
then on to the speakers without a typical radio unit present. They have
SR tuners with volume control, or just use an amp with remote gain controls.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Dilkes wrote:
> I have a Curtis 1231C and 8 inch ADC motor in my car.
> When I put my foot on the pedal the radio gets serious interference.
> Does anyone have a simple cure?
It's not simple, but it can be mostly cured. FM should work fine; AM will
always have noise between stations, but stronger stations should work ok.
The problem is that you have wide open high power cables that are radiating
interference. To silence it, you need to do one or more of the following (the
more you do, the quieter it gets).
1. Keep the wires in pairs, close together, tied together with wire ties
or tape. This means the pairs of wires running from battery box to
controller, and controller to motor.
2. Twisting the pairs together helps a bit more.
3. Shielding the wires with an outside woven or tinfoil shield helps
more yet. Be careful that the shield can't short or touch the
conductors inside!
4. Running the pairs through a grounded metal conduit helps more yet.
5. Put the batteries in a metal box, which is grounded. To work, you have
to enclose all 6 sides, not leave off a side or top. As for the shield,
this metal can be extremely thin; even aluminum foil. But beware of
shorts or acid getting on it and causing shorts or ground faults!
6. Connect a good high-frequency capacitor across the motor brushes.
Something like a 500v to 1000v, 0.01uF to 0.1uf ceramic capacitor.
7. You can "hunt around" for the source of hte noise with a portable
battery-operated AM radio. Put the car in neutral and wedge the throttle
so the motor is barely running. Move the radio around the batteries,
motor, controller, and associated parts. You'll find that the noise
is coming from the *wires* connected to these devices; not the devices
themselves (the wire is acting as their antenna).
8. Make sure your car radio's antenna is properly installed and grounded.
A bad ground or broken center wire in the cable makes things worse!
This should help.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you could also use one of Rich's reg boards on one battery , plug it
into the charger -and it would tell the charger to cut back power when it
came up to charge.
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 2:00 AM
Subject: RE: PFC-20/30 charger as a External Portable Charger?
You can charge a lower voltage pack with a PFC charger without making any
adjustments to the trim pot, you just have to manually turn the current
down and shut the charger off at the appropriate times or you will cook
the batteries. I have charged my motorcycle with other people's PFCs
several times. When the voltage rises past the bulk phase limit I either
shut the charger off or manually hold a constant voltage using the current
knob just like you do with a variac.
damon
From: Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: PFC-20/30 charger as a External Portable Charger?
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 06:32:22 -0800 (PST)
It has gotten to the point that I need 3 chargers for different voltages
and I have a pretty poor selection of outlets with no room to add a
circuit. ($1200 is the lowest price for a new subpanel and new outlets)
With that in mind I was dreaming of a PFC charger instead as it may save
money in the long run. I have a russco with a boost converter which treats
me well enough but is too weak to equalize my 126volt pack with my
electric service. I have a 5amp variac for charging my 48volt mower by
hand which I guess I could use for my 72+ volt motorcycle when it gets
done.
On http://www.manzanitamicro.com/chargers3.htm it says "The charger output
can be adjusted for any charging voltage from 12 volts to 450 volts with
the twist of a 20 turn trimmer pot"
I know it is more meants for when you change voltage on the vehicle it is
mounted in but could this be used to charge 3 different voltages
routinely?
126 volts, 72 volts, 48 volts?
It would mostly be 126 or 72 depending on what I was driving that week.
Once a week during mowing season it would be 48volts. I can really only
use one charger at a time due to only having one outlet. Has anyone used
the PFC with multiple packs? Is it an easy thing to do on an ongoing
basis? Any tricks to making it more foolproof so I don't roast my packs by
turning the dial wrong. I know powerwise I won't get all the PFC could put
out but at least I can get all I can out of the outlet with it.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jeff , On the two motor set up , I've been wondering about 2 of the 9
implus's , they have 28% more brush area and are only 26 more lbs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab"
I am planning on going to a dual motor setup and I have some questions.
Speed sensors
Will the zilla software handle only having one speed sensor? or do I
wire the one sensor into the 2 inputs?
they have 2 inputs . With the sensors on the motor ( motor a) with the free
tail shaft allot would be covered . as if coupler broke the motor with the
sensor would be the one that would over rev and the sensor would keep this
from happening . If your trying to cover everthing , well , if motor a flys
apart and jams and locks up , then your sensor would not protect motor b .
This is probable not likly and even so the motor b is conected to the tranny
, so shouldn't over rev. I don't see a easy way to put the sensor on motor b
. ,
The motors will share a common shaft like the siamese 8 so I won't be
able to mount 2 sensors.
by the way I really liked you adaptor plate ,
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Twin 9's a Z2K and the Tranny... Why...
Wheelies and smoke...
Hey this California.... It's all show.... that's what counts to the tube and
Jesse.
Give them what they want... it's easy and fast.
I keep telling Dave... twin 8s in that stripped out shell of a Car and a
Zilla, and he would have been doing low 11s maybe 10s.
He would have humliated the White Zombie... Gotten thrown off the
track....and made a good show of it.
NO.... Dave had to use Eteks... and prove that with 8 toy motors... you can
get close to what one motor can do.
If it's one thing that series wound does well is make aLOT of torque down
low... Why Dave is using permag, and trying to impress us is beyond Me.
A 1400 lbs car and rear drive and one 8 incher... and we would have gone
even faster.
Don't belive me??? Dave....?? hand me the car for a weekend...
Eteks, need to be used in the right way to get the most out of them. Direct
Drive massively paralled, is insulting thier design concepts. A Salibury
clutch or a torque converter of some sort would allow them to shine.
I know you all are going to argue... see ya at the track. I'll be 2000 lbs
heavier.... and not a lot slower...
How the heck am I going to get my tranny to survive 750 ft lbs of
torque..??????
I have some home work to do... that's for sure.
Madman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 7:41 AM
Subject: RE: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
> > This has got to be a maxi Zombie. A Camaro with two 9's
> > stright to the rear end will do it.
>
> Maybe.
> So which would be more interesting from a Jesse James 'make it wild' half
> hour TV show perspective----twin 9's, series connected to the rear diff,
or
> a Dave Cloud 8-ETEK chain-driven special?
> Recall that even with cheap used batteries, no controller and only 96v,
> Cloud delivered something like low 14's and 95mph (?) at Woodburn with
this
> arrangement in a body-mod'd Geo. Many on this list scoffed at the idea.
It
> was a sight to see. Dave proved many of you wrong.
> Mechanically it was amazing.
> What would viewers rather watch?
>
> This September there was a Monster Garage episode where a team was slated
to
> build a steamboat out of a 1950's era Chris Craft runabout. One of our
more
> noted NW steamboaters (and machinist) joined the team.
> The show wasn't about performance, but more about crafting something kind
of
> amazing and out of the ordinary---a frickin' steamboat---and of course, it
> had to have a killer paint job. In the end, there was a race, late
> September in the Sacramento Delta at the annual steamboat meet there.
> Jesse's monster steamboat took 2nd place in the race. It looked like he
had
> a lot of fun on that project despite the low HP and slow speeds.
>
> -Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello and 3800 lbs and a hemi....
Not a good canidate... But it would bring back some memories....
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
> Might I recommend a Dodge Charger Daytona/Plymouth
> Superbird? It has a .28 coefficient of drag, which would
> make this a very efficient vehicle, that could not only have
> good top speed, but excellent range as well. The weight
> would be a problem though, like with any musclecar.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Two motors???
Yea I am going to be testing a twin Warp 8 set up in my fiero...If we can
fit it in.
So... I will be tasting that Series/Parallel Grin soon.
Much Fun....
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
> I know a guy who makes a pretty decent twin motor set-up, ; )
> Dont think I could donate a pair though. At least not this year ; (
> Jim
>
> Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This has got to be a maxi Zombie. A Camaro with two 9's stright to the
rear
> end will do it. One string of Optima's, Exides or Hawkers will do the job.
> Just a simple two motor monster. I think one of the reasons Zombie is so
> fast is because it is simple. No tranny to break. Look at all the fast
> EV's Most all are 2 motor setups. Lawrence Rhodes......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Tromley"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:42 AM
> Subject: RE: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
>
>
> > Chip Gribben wrote:
> >
> >> The build team won't know until the first day of the project. They
> >> are looking for an EV expert and they plan to bring on a muscle car
> >> expert. The others will be mechanics and fabricators.
> >
> > Hmmm.
> >
> > Could be problematic, stemming from the ignorant belief that cars is
> > cars, and an EV has to be just like an ICE to be considered "normal".
> >
> > It seems to me that how this should be played will come down to budget
> > and weight. If this is a street custom, not a dragster, you can play up
> > the EV's strength by making it a holeshot monster. The problem is that
> > muscle cars aren't light. Sufficient torque is readily available (twin
> > GEs or Kostovs?), but getting it to the ground won't be cheap.
> >
> > Maybe you could build some tension by having the EV crew mercilessly
> > beat Jesse with verbal abuse about the wimpy drivetrain parts in the
> > typical "muscle" car. "Jesse! I said *800* foot pounds of torque! Do
> > the freakin' math!" Jesse doesn't believe it, the car gets built with
> > standard stuff and the EV crew proceeds to snap the axle internals like
> > a pretzel.
> >
> > Impressive to some, but not a visually satisfying a conclusion. Whoever
> > gets picked for this should run through some possible scenarios so
> > they're ready for the situation they are ultimately presented with.
> > Lead times should also be considered. A Warp 13 might be decided upon,
> > but how long does it take to get one?
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steven,
They are a good group of "Aussies" and were a lot of
fun to be with. My "Voltbuggy"tm is in episode 12.
They used bio diesel in all the support vehicles and I
had to kill my batteries before the Volbuggy leg of
the Journey and charge at the solar home. It is real
time filming not much script. Check out my website
http://dm3electrics.com , you will see when we charged
the car it is parked next to the electric Hog. We
charged off Mike's solar home but he had no battery
storage, so it was truly straight off the sun. When
the sun went down - the charging stopped - the arizona
sun paid off! The bike is pretty cool but you don't
want to lay it over on your leg. check out
http://www.vogelbilt.com/ I think the bike is over
700lbs, probably the same as a Boss hog. We don't get
to see the series down here in Az, what episode are
you up to?
Jimmy - "mario"
> From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
> <[email protected]>
> Subject: EV - Motorcycle CROSSES the USA
>
> Just came across ( by accident ) on the UPN Network
> ( Chanel 11 Seattle)
> a program called "COOLFUEL Roadtrip Across USA"
>
> Obviously narrated by a bunch of Aussies, or
> English. Two Guys, a Gal
> and a Jack Russle Terrior traveling cross the Desert
> from Wind Turbin
> site to wind turbin site. With side trips in
> wind-driven gliders, and
> other Alt.Fuel sites.
>
> Guess the POINT of the show, is to go cross the
> whole country, without
> using any petrolium fuel. ( too bad their gigantic
> 2 ton GMC Motorhome
> is their support vehicle... They did not mention
> it, but perhaps it is
> bio-diesel fueled...)
>
> The electric motor cycle looks like the "electric
> Hog" A converted
> Harley Davidson, I have seen on the EVDL.
>
> Can any one give detail on this series ?? Looks
> like it plays every
> Saturday afternoon (1 pm to 2 pm ) in Seattle.
> Chan.11 We will LOOK FOR
> IT next week.
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some cars are worse than others. One thing you could do is mount an antenna
on the back of the car. My SCR controller isn't too bad. Mostly bad when
accelerating. But like Bob said for the most part for getaboutit.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: Radio Interference, comments
Hi Rod;
Ya might as well forget about radios, in EV's! Maybe GM and Toyota
cleaned up all the electrical hash around a running EV?But we haven't. The
motor brushes arc a little, the electronic controllers are just plain
NOISY
electrically!! You may be able to listen to FM a bit, but my Rapter wipes
out ALL the AM, and most of the FM. Get yourself a good Tape or CD player,
radio? Forgetaboutit! A Victrola in the back seat<g>!Or go to a contactor
controller<g>Maybe AC systems are electrically "Cleaner?"
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 7:54 AM
Subject: Radio Interference
I have a Curtis 1231C and 8 inch ADC motor in my car.
When I put my foot on the pedal the radio gets serious interference.
Does anyone have a simple cure?
Rod Dilkes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you have an Electravan 600 you are indeed lucky. It will most likely run
with just battery replacement. Just go with golfcart batteries. It will
get the best range that way. YOu might also consider putting some
capacitors in paralell with the input of the controller to filter the ripple
current. I over killed with 10 150vdc 440uf units. This will filter the
ripple current and increase range. Also some low rolling resistance tires
will be good but there may be a problem with that.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/5360/main.html This is the URL to
the Subaru 360 club. They used the same motor in the 600 van. Ergo the 360
van. Same as the 600. Just a smaller motor. I'm sure they can help you
locate tires. Lawrence Rhodes..... If you can somehow fit 14" rims your
world will open up with maybe some lowprofile tires.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don B. Davidson III" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:20 AM
Subject: New guy on te block
Recently inherited three EV project cars. One is a Bradley GTE with all
original stock Bradley parts-GE EV1 controller/9" motor provided by Bradley
originally assembled in 1983-mothballed since then; Another being a 1980 Jet
Industries Electravan again, all original stock 102V with GE EV1 controller.
This was used daily at a FL condo until recently-stored past 3 years, all it
needs is a new set of batteries. My only concern is for its ridiculously
small 10 inch wheels/tires and brake parts. The third project is a 1970 VW
Beetle originally converted to electric back in 1980 I just finished
stripping all the old electronics from it and plan on new motor/controller,
DC converter, etc.
I have a website to share that documents my progress with these projects. I
add to it almost daily, although little progress will occur once winter
settles in to Central NY State. Go to: www.spaces/msn.com/members/dbd3
Right now my frustration lies with what batteries to choose. Six volt is
the proven workhorse and except for the small wheels on the Electravan, its
the most practical of the three to use as it has easy access to maintain
batteries and lots of cargo space. The Beetle does not have physical space
for 16 or more 6V batteries; so I may have to consider the less popular 8V
batteries. My Bradley will be the most difficult for batteries as it's
designed for batteries to be located either side of the motor, making
installing, maintaining and removing batteries difficult if not impossible,
so now I must consider the even less popular AGM batteries. I look to the
more experienced EV'r for suggestions
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
Thanks for the heads up. I will use your suggestions. I am an engineer employed
at a local NBC TV broadcast affiliate. Typical of most TV stations, this one's
located on top of a "hill". To make it practical, I hope to have my EV capable
of a 25 mile commute, 18 of which is highway and 2 miles of steep uphill climb.
I work a 10 hour shift which will give the car plenty of time to be recharged
for the commute home. Brakes are a concern as I have to go back down that same
very steep hill. Posted speed limit on this hill is 30, so it doesn't have to
go very fast, it just has to get me there. Am I being overoptimistic believing
that one of these EV's will do the commute?
I welcome any comments or suggestions. Thanks and Happy Holidays!
Don Davidson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Rhodes<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: New guy on te block
If you have an Electravan 600 you are indeed lucky. It will most likely run
with just battery replacement. Just go with golfcart batteries. It will
get the best range that way. YOu might also consider putting some
capacitors in paralell with the input of the controller to filter the ripple
current. I over killed with 10 150vdc 440uf units. This will filter the
ripple current and increase range. Also some low rolling resistance tires
will be good but there may be a problem with that.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/5360/main.html<http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/5360/main.html>
This is the URL to
the Subaru 360 club. They used the same motor in the 600 van. Ergo the 360
van. Same as the 600. Just a smaller motor. I'm sure they can help you
locate tires. Lawrence Rhodes..... If you can somehow fit 14" rims your
world will open up with maybe some lowprofile tires.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don B. Davidson III" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:20 AM
Subject: New guy on te block
Recently inherited three EV project cars. One is a Bradley GTE with all
original stock Bradley parts-GE EV1 controller/9" motor provided by Bradley
originally assembled in 1983-mothballed since then; Another being a 1980 Jet
Industries Electravan again, all original stock 102V with GE EV1 controller.
This was used daily at a FL condo until recently-stored past 3 years, all it
needs is a new set of batteries. My only concern is for its ridiculously
small 10 inch wheels/tires and brake parts. The third project is a 1970 VW
Beetle originally converted to electric back in 1980 I just finished
stripping all the old electronics from it and plan on new motor/controller,
DC converter, etc.
I have a website to share that documents my progress with these projects. I
add to it almost daily, although little progress will occur once winter
settles in to Central NY State. Go to:
www.spaces/msn.com/members/dbd3<http://www.spaces/msn.com/members/dbd3>
Right now my frustration lies with what batteries to choose. Six volt is
the proven workhorse and except for the small wheels on the Electravan, its
the most practical of the three to use as it has easy access to maintain
batteries and lots of cargo space. The Beetle does not have physical space
for 16 or more 6V batteries; so I may have to consider the less popular 8V
batteries. My Bradley will be the most difficult for batteries as it's
designed for batteries to be located either side of the motor, making
installing, maintaining and removing batteries difficult if not impossible,
so now I must consider the even less popular AGM batteries. I look to the
more experienced EV'r for suggestions
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I very much like Jerry's plan and wish him the best of luck. I wish I
> had money and time off to throw his way. But, in California... There
> is a hard number of kits per year allowed in the state.
You mean they will only license 500 kit-cars TOTAL per year? On a first-come,
first-serve basis? Or is it 500 kit-cars per MANUFACTURER?
> In the long run, I think jumping past the "flying under radar" and
> "avoiding crash testing" image is the way for this to become more
> mainstream.
But you have to walk before you can run. Even with very rapid growth, you're
only going to sell 5 the first year, 50 then next, 500 the next, etc. And
once you've sold those 500 cars, you *will* have the track record and
experience to transition to "normal" manufacturing.
> In order for bodies to be made faster, those will be produced at the
> main plant with some pretty elaborate and large equipment. Also if they
> have been crash tested, I don't think I can actually sell a mold to
> people and still keep the crash testing valid.
Correct. But you can do what the kit airplane business has been doing. The
company initially sells just plans for maybe $100 each. This just lets people
see what's coming, and provides a modest cash flow for the company. Then they
organize group buys to get a quantity discount for various off-the-shelf
pieces; this could be motors, batteries, controllers, etc. This provides more
cash flow for the fledgling company. Then they make a few key parts (motor
coupler, adapter plate, body, etc.) and sell them; now the company is getting
enough sales and has a real production line (for these few parts). As the
business grows, they supply more and more pieces until they can supply a
complete kit. Finally, they transition to building completed vehicles. The
whole process might take 10 years, but can be "bootstrapped" without selling
your soul to vulture capitalists.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
