EV Digest 4922
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Radio Interference
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Range Extending
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV production! Who's interested in figuring out how to make $
at this!
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Estate Planning for EVers. AKA, "do you have an owner's manual?"
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV production! and Sunrise EV, Freedom EV update
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Automatic transmission
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Bullet Proof Rear End?
by billb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV production! Who's interested in figuring out how to make $ at this!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Automatic transmission
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Contradictory battery readings
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Bullet Proof Rear End?
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Bullet Proof Rear End?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Contradictory battery readings
by "Dave & Deb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Automatic transmission
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EV production! Who's interested in figuring out how to make $ at this!
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Automatic transmission
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: EV production! Who's interested in figuring out how to make $ at this!
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV - Motorcycle CROSSES the USA
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) McLellan's Automotive History - EV sales literature 1950's+
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Bullet Proof Rear End?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Contradictory battery readings
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Automatic transmission
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: Automatic transmission
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Range Extending
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I am gonna guess that AC systems are much less noisy in the RF
> department.
It has nothing to do with AC vs DC per se. It's just that DC controllers tend
to leave out a lot of parts to make them cheaper.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 22 miles at 2% grade is not possible.
> Do the math. How many feet will you rise at 2% in 20
> miles?
2,112 ft.
Maybe not in Florida, but elsewhere in the country,
this isn't a particularly large climb.
last month i drove an ev (of sorts) up a road that
gained 8,000 ft of altitude in about 17 miles, for an
average grade of more than 8 %. Now THAT, was a steep
climb.
~fortunat
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have not forgotten about the marketing, I have a multi-phased multi
faceted marketing campaign designed, I just didn't mention it :-) I
wasn't even gonna say as much as I have casue these lists get posted
publicly.
As a matter of fact about 50% of the buisness plan will be the
marketing, it is the statement of what you are gonna do to insure the
success of the venture.
It is more of a "helping them realize that they want what you happen to
have." scheme.
Lee,
I think it is 500 per year total in california. I had a friend
building a berkin 7 and he had to actually wait to get his on the road
because of that.
I don't know if this is accurate (and I can't believe I am disagreeing
with you lee) but could it be that we have seen 3 to 5 companies try
that "walk before you can run strategy" and while not failing, not
really succeeding, not in a "persistant car company " way. sure even
ford and chevy started that way, but name a succesfull mainstream
consumer product recently that has. Unless it is a totally new area, I
think you have to jump into a position in the market. I don't know what
the magical quantity is, but consider electronic components, qty 1000 is
the norm for quoteing with the price going down from there. I can't even
buy motorola chips for ecm's unless I am willing to buy 1000.
There would be 2-3 monthes of anticipatory marketing prior to an
official release date and all the training and stock placed at multiple
delearships along with built and charged fully assembled vehicles to
test drive. There would be 100's of cars available in multiple cities on
the same day. 5 in the first year would be a catastrophe, I am thinking
500 orders in the first day tapering off to a few a week per dealer.
Buisnessplan-->finiancing--> prototypeing production method with vehicle
at same time-->small quantity to crash test and rangetest, bulk order-->
mass->release.
converting an existing car is not an option. It wasn't designed to be an
EV, to many gotcha's and compromises making for a kludgy,heavy vehicle.
I am afraid that investors are the only way to enter a market like this.
Design is part of the cost.
I am talking about the 1st new american car company in 50 years, (unless
we count saturn and they went GM) :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ideally, when we pass, there will be an enthusiastic
EVer waiting to buy our rig, who knows all of the ins
&outs of them. But what if that's not the case?
Start with this template, and build your own!
Have fun.
CivicWithACord owners manual
v.1.0, Nov. 19, 2005
Driving: Turn the key and the dash light for the
battery will turn on. If the circuit breaker is in
the forward/on position (see under the handbrake), and
the car is in the proper gear, simply depress the
accelerator and youll move.
If the car is not in the proper gear, depress the
clutch, shift, release the clutch, depress the
accelerator.
a) The car can be driven from either first, or second
gear. Shift from first by 35 mph, and from 2nd by 60
mph. This will avoid unnecessary motor and
transmission wear.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL DOWNSHIFTING HELP TO BRING
THE CAR TO A STOP. TO THE CONTRARY, DOWNSHIFTING AT A
SPEED ABOVE WHAT IS INDICATED ABOVE WILL DAMAGE THE
WINDINGS OF THE MOTOR.
b) When you come to a stop, you may leave the car in
gear. The car will not stall, as with a combustion
vehicle. On the other hand, IF you take it out of
gear as you come to a stop, the motor and flywheel
will still be moving. As a result, you will want to
engage the clutch slowly to avoid a jerky start.
c) When you accelerate up a hill, there will be a
rattling type of sound. This is due to extra torque
on the motor causing a small shift in the position on
the motor mounts, and has occurred since the car was
converted. It is nothing to be concerned about.
d) Dont ever accelerate so fast that your amp draw
goes high enough to make the voltage on the e-meter
indicate lower than 126 volts. This will cause
irrepairable battery damage. Similarly, dont let the
pack voltage drop lower than this on normal commutes,
or up hills, when amp draw increases.
Driving Distance: The car is loaded at maximum gross
vehicle weight rating. Ie, the brakes will work fine,
but to protect your investment, leave plenty of
stopping distance, especially if on a wet road.
Pedestrians: In a parking lot, they will not be able
to hear you. Either keep the stereo playing fairly
loud, or be extra cautious of conditions around you.
Parking: Make sure the emergency brake is engaged.
The gears and electric motor simply will not provide
any additional inertia for the vehicle, such as if it
is parked on a slope.
Maintenance:
a) During summer, tire pressure will increase. Check
to make sure that they read 42 PSI.
During the winter, tire pressure will decrease. Check
to make sure that they read 42 PSI.
b) Brakes likely will tend to wear faster. Listen
for the audible brake wear indicators.
c) Motor brushes: Need to be changed every 80,000
miles or so. They are a black block with a copper
braid coming out of them, visible in the tailshaft end
of the motor. Monitor the height that the block
sticks out, so youll know when replacement is needed.
There is a special stone that you purchase to shape
them, when the time comes. Many companies can repair
electric motors, ie, tell you how to install the
brushes, and its not difficult.
Troubleshooting:
a) If you are using the wipers, defroster, stereo,
headlights, and heater at the same time, you are
likely close to 30A on the 12 volt system, if you are
not over it. Under these conditions, you may blow a
fuse. Keep spare 30A fuses on hand. They get
installed in the top of the blue DCP DCDC converter on
the passenger side of the vehicle. They are green in
color.
b) If the controller fails to turn on, the green
light above the e-meter will not turn on. It may be
due to a fuse that has blown. The reason for the fuse
blowing was that when the vehicle was in reverse, the
transmission would shift location close enough to the
main contactor to short it. This hasnt occurred
since I placed extra insulation around it, but check
this concern if it ever happens again.
Lead Acid Battery Care:
This is a broad enough concept to write an entire
manual on, but here is the condensed version:
Charge as often as you use the vehicle, to a voltage
that depends on the ambient temperature. During
winter, the voltage needs to be set to finish off at
193 V. During summer, the voltage needs to be set to
186V. This is done by turning a screw-type control on
the right side (as mine is mounted upside down) of the
controller. Use a voltmeter on the left terminal of
the main contactor, (look for the huge bolts), and the
battery terminal marked (-) that is closest to it.
But the difficult part is that you need to know when
the current is dropping, and the voltage is rising.
That means a bit of babysitting the car.
(Ie, youll notice that when you first plug in, the
amps shown on the E-meter will start off at around 27.
As the charge gets complete, it will go down to about
_two_.
FURTHERMORE: The plates on the battery grow sulfate
crystals. To get rid of the crystals and get maximum
range on the car, you need to _equalize_ the
batteries. To do this, crank up the voltage about 4
volts or so, and that will trick the charger into
keeping the current at about 8 amperes. The batteries
will bubble and gas vigorously. They may also heat
up. Take a hygrometer or refractometer reading from
several cells. The goal is to get _all_ of them to
read 2.65. When they do, youve pretty much equalized
them.
During equalizing, especially as the batteries age,
youll need to add some distilled water. There is a
special filller bottle that helps make certain the
cells arent overloaded.
FINALLY: Keep the battery terminals tight. Over
time, the lead will deform. You want a good, solid
connection. Also, keep corrosion off by washing them
with water + baking soda, and finally, keep the tops
of the batteries clean. Over time, dust will
accumulate, and conduct enough electricity that it
will affect vehicle performance.
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jeff, Stefan and All,
Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
But, in California there is an issue. and it may pertain to other states
as well. There is a hard number of kits per year allowed in the state.
If I use them up, the hot-rod crowd would be left with none, and it
limits me to a specific quantity. IF i am limited to 200 or 500 a year
I can't purchase the quantities needed to get the prices per unit.
You can go for an exemption which DOT will approve for a couple yrs
for low production amounts like 2-5,000/yr like Panoz was doing with their
Smart EV project they dropped and they get for their sportscar.
And you don't have to sell all your production in Cal as others
states will want them too if you went the kit route
But I would go the kit route to see if there is the market you expect
before sinking in millions to meet the fed regs. Crawl before you walk can save
you much money, refine your product, show investors and earn the money to do
the regs.
In the long run, I think jumping past the "flying under radar" and
"avoiding crash testing" image is the way for this to become more
mainstream.
I've never seen any crash testng requirement, instead you have to
do required satety standards like door reinforcements, seat belt light, seat
belts, padded dash, ect.
In order for bodies to be made faster, those will be produced at the
main plant with some pretty elaborate and large equipment. Also if they
have been crash tested, I don't think I can actually sell a mold to
people and still keep the crash testing valid.
They are not that big, especially compared to what Detroit uses. But
really no reason to use such until you go for a very large production and maybe
not even then.
Also my observations of that type, RTM, equipment/molds is they
produce a heavy and not cheap product compared to a traditional molds. One can
use several reg molds with nickle plated surfaces, fed by a worker spraying
in the resin with others cutting the glass to size and others putting the glass
in and spreading the resin, will get you a much better quaility product at a
lower weight at less overall cost with the same number of units built.. 50/100
day wouldn't be hard to do and at a price of about $6/lb for the finished
product in those quanities. Cheaper than steel production and scaleable much
more easily.!!
And better quality, less weight cuts EV drive, labor, finishing costs.
My thought, and the thought of a colleague that has utilized investors
before, is that there is a minimum quantity that will be found that will
dictate the costs, and a company must hit the ground running with that
minimum quantity at that price point or they cannot make it. Lots can be
done to change that quantity but an initial offering of 1000 units will
only work with contracts for more.
You can do it on much smaller runs, say 100 units with very good
pricing still if you plan correctly.
ie 100 motors 50% off of list
In 10 lots you get more off than that !! I'm paying lower that 50%
off already.
1000 motors 75% off list and I can dictate part of the design
I'm already dictating the motor design custom for my EV in under 10
lots. The prices are so low, I'm using 2 motors per EV.
10000 motors 25% of list and it is my design.
25% of list is going to be hard as you are bumping up to the price
of materials which are going up. Copper and steel have doubled in the last
couple yrs.
By the time I'm doing 200 units, I'll already have my own
motor/controller design, a disc type BLDC with built in controller with both
done modular so the owner can repair it themselves. And I expect it to cost
about $400 for both in materials, labor and be 10% more eff and have regen for
another 5-10% range. Not bad for 1/2 the cost, weight of present series
motor/controller deals . I'd be glad to share this, it's production line with
others as it would lower costs even more.
same will hold for batteries and controllers and chargers but no
where near the same numbers. an optimum will have to be found.
Controllers get below 50% in 25 quanities, Batteries are not so
discounted as they are very competitively priced already. You'll be lucky to
get more than 25% off what others get them for even in larger quanities.. They
will be 50% off their list price but no one pays list if they try at all even
in small quanities..
For most things, 100 lots are enough to get good prices.
A lot of parts will absolutly have to be generic, I mean I can't use a
single part that I would have to buy from GM or they can easily stomp me
out. That doesn't mean I can't use the parts, it just means I must buy
from bendix and dana and muncie, parts that are sold to multiple models
and hope that those companies aren't susceptable to coercion. In fact I
may use non-american sources just to lessen that risk.
That's not a problem though can be hard to track down just what you
need. It's all those little parts that need to be available accross the country
at a reasonable price that will drive you crazy.
I'm doing an inital run of 20 Freedom EV's as a Beta run to EVer's in
which I'll use some rebuilt parts so customers can get them everywhere before I
commit to a bigger run with all new parts. This gives me time to refine the EV
before selling to the general public and a good group to give me feedback to
improve it..
I will have to expect and prepare for a fight. Jerry's grass root
movement may actually be the way to avoid detection until it is to
late. My method almost invites a conforntation and a media circus. If
both of us succeed, all the better!
Yes, there is plenty of market for everyone. By the time they notice me
I'll have spread to many aera's. With factories in many states, congress will
fight to keep those open against Detroit in their states and even change the
laws at state, fed level for us. They will do most anything for a car plant
!! Maybe even throw out the fed regs for low production factories, making them
an experiment in less fed regs. The main reason for those regs are keeping
competition down, safety, EPA are just side issues..
Stefan wrote
My point is simply that one cannot underestimate the importance of a
well-thought out, carefully planned, and imaginative marketing plan. Find
out who your target audience is (most important of all), and design it
all around them. What they want, what they value, and how to reach
them. Building a better widget has never been what consumer industry is all
about. It's about giving them what they want, or just helping them
realize that they want what you happen to have. ;)
Marketing is very important once you get into serious production.
It will take me a yr just to produce enough to fill orders from those who
already want them. But I have some rather fun, free publicity stunts that
should insure many more orders before I ever have to start advertising.
But cool, looks, tire smoke, high tech, ect will sell many more than
economy ever will so that's what I'm going for. And it takes a much smaller add
budget to do it that way.
I use to sell sailboats and the early bordelo type low quality boats
that were 20% cheaper outsold quality ones by several times despite the fact
that their lives depended on quality.. that taught me a lot, logic has little
to do with selling, style, looks, selling price, ect does much more.
I also designed and produced a great windgen in the early 80's but
spent so much time educating potential buyers that I lost money thru the sales
time it took, thus stopped building them. So now I make sure there is an easy
market before I start production.
Or in something like my non dan hydro generators, no market is needed
as I can just sell the electicity I produce and make much more money that way
than selling them.
(BTW, look at the recent Scion thing... talk about marketing overcoming
preconceptions and product limitations)
Look at SUV sales as another example !! A Mini Van would really be a
much better logical fit from safety, carrying cap, utility, fuel mileage, ect,
but instead they buy SUV's !!
The best business plan in the world will end up amounting to a hill of
beans without a DARN GOOD product positioning and market awareness
strategy. I'd try to get that discussion started first.
Well said !!
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Anyone? Brainstorms? Points-to-ponder?
-- Peanut Gallery --
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking about the manual transmission situation and it "only"
being able to handle 600 ft/lbs of torque and also the issue of clutch
replacements and the clutch not slipping. There are "other" manual
transmissions but they are not able to be downshifted while on the
move.
I got to thinking about the automatic again. Take a look at this
adapter that takes the place of the slipping torque converter:
http://www.tciauto.com/circle_track/circle_track_pump_drives.htm
With that installed, the electric motor would not need to idle while
at a stop. Also, there would be no slip while moving because of not
having a torque converter.
Is there some draw back I'm not seeing?
I can get an automatic that's good for 1,000+ hp.. and for a lot
cheaper then a manual transmission + clutch + flywheel + blow proof
bell housing.
Plus the automatic has a lifetime warranty...
http://www.performanceautomatic.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks,
I have seen a lot on this list about EV racing, and some of the cars
run a respectable time indeed! I was wondering if there was a commonly
used street differential that can handle the big motors with out too
much in expensive custom mods. I have heard the Ford 9 inch mentioned,
any GM 12 bolt etc, what about the bigger pickup truck rear ends? When
someone is planning to convert an ice to electric for decent street
performance
( not hard core racing) this would be something to get right the first time.
Thanks, Bill Brinsmead
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Lee,
> I think it is 500 per year total in california. I had a friend
> building a berkin 7 and he had to actually wait to get his on the road
> because of that.
Gads, what an awkward situation!
> I don't know if this is accurate (and I can't believe I am disagreeing
> with you lee) but could it be that we have seen 3 to 5 companies try
> that "walk before you can run strategy" and while not failing, not
> really succeeding, not in a "persistant car company" way. sure even
> ford and chevy started that way, but name a succesfull mainstream
> consumer product recently that has.
Look at Cirrus Design <http://www.cirrusdesign.com/aboutus/>. They started at
a kit airplane manufacturer in 1984, and are now the world's second largest
maker of light planes.
> consider electronic components, qty 1000 is the norm for quoting with the
> price going down from there. I can't even buy motorola chips for ecm's
> unless I am willing to buy 1000.
That's because 1000 chips is only perhaps a $10k order.
If you call Advanced DC and ordered even 10 motors, that would be a big enough
dollar volume to negotiate a quantity discount.
If you are buying batteries, one vehicle uses a dozen or more; you can start
to get into quantity discounts even for one vehicle.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you have enough torque to break a transmission, you can easily get by
without one.
Pick your optimum gearing in the diff, and just go direct connect.
Driveshafts are cheaper, stronger and lighter than gearboxes.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Monday, 21 November 2005 1:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Automatic transmission
I was thinking about the manual transmission situation and it "only"
being able to handle 600 ft/lbs of torque and also the issue of clutch
replacements and the clutch not slipping. There are "other" manual
transmissions but they are not able to be downshifted while on the
move.
I got to thinking about the automatic again. Take a look at this
adapter that takes the place of the slipping torque converter:
http://www.tciauto.com/circle_track/circle_track_pump_drives.htm
With that installed, the electric motor would not need to idle while
at a stop. Also, there would be no slip while moving because of not
having a torque converter.
Is there some draw back I'm not seeing?
I can get an automatic that's good for 1,000+ hp.. and for a lot
cheaper then a manual transmission + clutch + flywheel + blow proof
bell housing.
Plus the automatic has a lifetime warranty...
http://www.performanceautomatic.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sheesh, just when you think you've figgered' out all
of the details of charging...
Have been equalizing a good part of the day. All of
the front batt. pack reads 1.265, save for the final
battery in the string. (floodies, 8V). It reads
1.4SG, but the voltage reads higher than the others:
8.8V vs. 8.49.
Any idea why the discrepancy?
Thanks,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A common rear axle in U. S. built 3/4 ton trucks is the Dana Model 60.
Some big-block muscle cars also had Dana 60s.
----- Original Message -----
From: "billb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:33 PM
Subject: Bullet Proof Rear End?
Hi Folks,
I have seen a lot on this list about EV racing, and some of the cars run
a respectable time indeed! I was wondering if there was a commonly used
street differential that can handle the big motors with out too much in
expensive custom mods. I have heard the Ford 9 inch mentioned, any GM 12
bolt etc, what about the bigger pickup truck rear ends? When someone is
planning to convert an ice to electric for decent street performance
( not hard core racing) this would be something to get right the first
time.
Thanks, Bill Brinsmead
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill, Kinda depends on your exact application but...Here goes. For most HD
and performance work in anything 3/4 ton pickup size or smaller, just go for
a Ford 9". All the hard work is already done, plenty of gear ratio
selection, lightest of the strong units and as kinda the common denominator
in performance / HD rear ends the price is like buying performance parts for
say a small block Chevy Vs a small block Ford. Try Currie, Jegs, Henrys,
etc, just grab a current issue of Car Craft, HRM or similar. Also readily
available at car shows / swapmeets. I just got back from Good Guys here in
Phx and there were 10 Ford 9s for every 3 Chevy 12 bolts and I think I saw a
Dana 60 as well. One guy had probably 50 different sets of gears on his
table alone. Now if you want a good rear end cheap cheap cheap and don't
care about say the availability, cost of replacement gears, or the weight
there are a lot of good and very strong Danas in many different trucks that
would work well. For instance I have a Dana Posi RE (might be a series 70,
not sure) out of a `70 440 Fury that is stout as hell that I would let go of
very reasonable as long as you were in the area to pick it up. Shipping
would kill it as a bargain. Good luck, if you need any more help you got my
#.
Regards, David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "billb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 7:33 PM
Subject: Bullet Proof Rear End?
Hi Folks,
I have seen a lot on this list about EV racing, and some of the cars run
a respectable time indeed! I was wondering if there was a commonly used
street differential that can handle the big motors with out too much in
expensive custom mods. I have heard the Ford 9 inch mentioned, any GM 12
bolt etc, what about the bigger pickup truck rear ends? When someone is
planning to convert an ice to electric for decent street performance
( not hard core racing) this would be something to get right the first
time.
Thanks, Bill Brinsmead
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/175 - Release Date: 11/18/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1.4SG?? hmm my hydrometer only goes up to 1.310 and I rarely see 1.30 and
the highest I've ever seen is 1.305 ... is your hydrometer temperature
compensating?
Dave
> Sheesh, just when you think you've figgered' out all
> of the details of charging...
>
> Have been equalizing a good part of the day. All of
> the front batt. pack reads 1.265, save for the final
> battery in the string. (floodies, 8V). It reads
> 1.4SG, but the voltage reads higher than the others:
> 8.8V vs. 8.49.
>
> Any idea why the discrepancy?
> Thanks,
>
> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Fowler wrote:
> Pick your optimum gearing in the diff, and just go direct connect.
I think White Zombie would be faster if it had a 2 or 3 speed automatic.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 20, 2005, at 5:36 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
Jeff Shanab wrote:
I don't know if this is accurate (and I can't believe I am disagreeing
with you lee) but could it be that we have seen 3 to 5 companies try
that "walk before you can run strategy" and while not failing, not
really succeeding, not in a "persistant car company" way. sure even
ford and chevy started that way, but name a succesfull mainstream
consumer product recently that has.
Look at Cirrus Design <http://www.cirrusdesign.com/aboutus/>. They
started at
a kit airplane manufacturer in 1984, and are now the world's second
largest
maker of light planes.
Or another aircraft company (local to me), Columbia Aircraft
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Aircraft>. They started out as
kit plane manufacturer Lancair in 1984, and are now... hey, this sounds
kind of familiar. Except I don't know their market share.
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Perhaps.
Then again, it is one more thing to break, it introduces more losses,
and the Zombie effectively has a two speed auto already with the Zilla
and twin motor series/parallel control.
Mark
(who is not a racer by any stretch of the imagination and could well be
talking through his trousers)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Monday, 21 November 2005 2:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Automatic transmission
Mark Fowler wrote:
> Pick your optimum gearing in the diff, and just go direct connect.
I think White Zombie would be faster if it had a 2 or 3 speed automatic.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What I find interesting, is that there is no precedence for this in the
automotive market. Does anyone know of a kit-car company that turned
production? I wonder why we do not see more of this?
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Doug Weathers
Sent: November 20, 2005 8:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV production! Who's interested in figuring out how to make $
at this!
On Nov 20, 2005, at 5:36 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
> Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
>> I don't know if this is accurate (and I can't believe I am
>> disagreeing with you lee) but could it be that we have seen 3 to 5
>> companies try that "walk before you can run strategy" and while not
>> failing, not really succeeding, not in a "persistant car company"
>> way. sure even ford and chevy started that way, but name a succesfull
>> mainstream consumer product recently that has.
>
> Look at Cirrus Design <http://www.cirrusdesign.com/aboutus/>. They
> started at a kit airplane manufacturer in 1984, and are now the
> world's second largest maker of light planes.
Or another aircraft company (local to me), Columbia Aircraft
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Aircraft>. They started out as kit
plane manufacturer Lancair in 1984, and are now... hey, this sounds kind of
familiar. Except I don't know their market share.
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Be careful of diesel motorhomes with small engines. Some are pretty slow.
A guy that RVs with us crawls up a 5% grade at about 20 MPH. I usually go
about 45 MPH and several others in the group can go 60 to 70 MPH. All of us
tow car trailers and have a gross combined vehicle weight between 17000 and
19000 pounds.
The slow guy gets about 20 MPG from diesel and the rest of us get 6 to 10
MPG from gasoline.
I have talked to guys with diesel bus chassis that go 70 MPH up a 5% grade
towing a dingy. They claim 9 to 12 MPG for 25000 pounds gross combined
vehicle weight.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 4:17 AM
Subject: Re: EV - Motorcycle CROSSES the USA
> > Guess the POINT of the show, is to go cross the whole country, without
> > using any petrolium fuel. ( too bad their gigantic 2 ton GMC Motorhome
> > is their support vehicle... They did not mention it, but perhaps it is
> > bio-diesel fueled...)
>
> Huh?? Most so-called "small" pickup trucks weigh in at, or near, 2 tons.
> I'm pretty sure even "small" motorhomes weigh considerably more than that.
>
> I get your point though.
>
> I've been looking for an affordable motorhome that uses a diesel engine
> just so I can run it on bio-diesel. Unfortunately "affordable" and
> "diesel" seem to be mutually exclusive when it comes to motorhomes.
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pictures and descriptions of sales literature etc for EVs from about
the 1950's to the 1980's...
http://www.mclellansautomotive.com/sales-lit/bysub/electricvehicles/print-index.htm
or tinyURL:
http://tinyurl.com/7egs4
lOcK
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/TorontoEVA/
__________________________________________________________
Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bill,
You do not have to change the differential housing, but its best to install
either a HI-Torque Axle or a Pro Street Axle. Also used a welded on Housing
End Kit or a bolt-on bearing Adapter kits.
This is what I did with my 12-bolt standard GM differential. Install a 5.57:1
ratio ring and pinion, a Pro Street Axle that is over 2 inches in diameter and
about 3 inches diameter at Timken roller bearings that have a inner and outer
race that has a 24,000 lb load rating and a 4000 lb side thrust.
Large 5/8 inch wheel studs where install. You can get 11/16 inch studs if you
are going to drag race.
You also must match the load rating of the wheel to the weight on that wheel.
If you have a static load rating of 1000 lbs per wheel than you should have a
wheel that is rated for at least 2500 lbs for drag racing. If you have the
front weight transfer to the rear, than it becomes 2000 lbs per wheel + 500 lbs
over. I have 3500 lbs wheels on my car, with tire load rating of 2600 lbs at
65 PSI.
If you are not going to do drag racing, than you can get by with 500 lbs over
each load that is place on each wheel.
You can also install a chromoly or aluminum or carbon fiber drive shafts.
The transmission is a very heavy duty type, where the first gear ratio has a
overall gear ratio is 19.54:1 which is a violent take off. I now leave it in
the mild setting, or I would smash the cars in front and rear of me in try to
get out of a parking spot.
The weakest part in my driveline is now the adapter that comes off the motor.
I have shear the coupler key in half, when I took off with the controller set
in violent setting, which makes the car jump from a standing start. I now used
a taper lock key coupler.
Its take less than 12 INCH LBS (NOT FOOT LBS) of Torque to start to move the EV
in first gear on a smooth concrete floor. Just test the torque of the drive
system by applying the torque wrench to the pilot shaft of the motor which has
a 1/4 inch bolt thread in the end.
I get many of my driveline accessory and suspension units from www dot
markwilliams dot com. There phone number is 1-800-525-1963
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: billb<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 7:33 PM
Subject: Bullet Proof Rear End?
Hi Folks,
I have seen a lot on this list about EV racing, and some of the cars
run a respectable time indeed! I was wondering if there was a commonly
used street differential that can handle the big motors with out too
much in expensive custom mods. I have heard the Ford 9 inch mentioned,
any GM 12 bolt etc, what about the bigger pickup truck rear ends? When
someone is planning to convert an ice to electric for decent street
performance
( not hard core racing) this would be something to get right the first time.
Thanks, Bill Brinsmead
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry; let's call it _1.24_!
--- Dave & Deb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 1.4SG?? hmm my hydrometer only goes up to 1.310 and
> I rarely see 1.30 and
> the highest I've ever seen is 1.305 ... is your
> hydrometer temperature
> compensating?
> Dave
>
> > Sheesh, just when you think you've figgered' out
> all
> > of the details of charging...
> >
> > Have been equalizing a good part of the day. All
> of
> > the front batt. pack reads 1.265, save for the
> final
> > battery in the string. (floodies, 8V). It reads
> > 1.4SG, but the voltage reads higher than the
> others:
> > 8.8V vs. 8.49.
> >
> > Any idea why the discrepancy?
> > Thanks,
> >
> > '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD
> available)!
> > www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> > ____
> > __/__|__\ __
> > =D-------/ - - \
> > 'O'-----'O'-'
> > Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe
> came out of the steering
> > wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in
> one click.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<I think White Zombie would be faster if it had a 2 or 3 speed automatic.>>
or maybe a 2-speed truck diff - kinda big, but built to take a lot of torque.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How much weight would it add?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: Automatic transmission
> <<I think White Zombie would be faster if it had a 2 or 3 speed
automatic.>>
>
> or maybe a 2-speed truck diff - kinda big, but built to take a lot of
torque.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<2,112 ft.
Maybe not in Florida, but elsewhere in the country,
this isn't a particularly large climb.
last month i drove an ev (of sorts) up a road that
gained 8,000 ft of altitude in about 17 miles, for an
average grade of more than 8 %. Now THAT, was a steep
climb.>>
Weren't some of the more short-lived EVs designed in Florida? Certainly would be
best to aim for more than the flat-and-balmy parts of the US! The Cascades and
Sierra Nevadas have millions of potential EV buyers close to mile after mile of
6% grade (interstates with truck lanes uphill, "brake check" areas at the top,
and runaway truck turnoffs going down). A Microbus passing an EVs on a 5 mile
grade is just not good press.
--- End Message ---
