EV Digest 4940
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: OEM's should reevaluate EV's
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Having difficulty (re)programming PFC-20
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Low rolling resistance tires
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: OEM's should reevaluate EV's
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) CA conversion registration issue
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !! A Second LOOK
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Vortex Generators and/or Strakes
by John David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Extra TAX/ snap on windows/ WHAT !!
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) snap on windows/ WHAT !!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Having difficulty (re)programming PFC-20
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Extra TAX/ snap on windows/ WHAT !!
by "Don B. Davidson III" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Forklift Battery Swapping...200+ Mile Range Sound Good?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Myers motors update
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Any Solar Panel Distributors?
by Marc Breitman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Question about MK battery AGMs and Gel cells
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) A Weighty Thing, was ;Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Steven Lough wrote:
Yesterday at about 4pm, got a call from KOMO-TV, our local ABC affiliate
here in Seattle. He wanted me to do an "ON-CAMERA" interview as a
Hybrid owner, as to what I thought about a proposal put forward by the
U.S. Chamber of Commerce that high - mileage vehicles should be TAXED
extra because they are using the same roads with SUV,s and other
vehicles which buy more gas, pay more tax, yet the Hybrids pay LESS gas
TAX...
Gas tax goes to fix roads, isn't it? At least big part of it.
So don't call it gas tax, call is "road fix" tax. Do you feel
better then? Your EV damages roads to about the same degree
that identical weight gas cars. And it's not the fault of the
folks driving them that they must use gas to move.
So is it fair you use/damage the same roads the same way but
don't pay for their repair just because your fuel is different?
Fas tax is just convenient way to collect money since
gasoline users use roads. It could easily have been
(and may be will be in gasless future) a "vehicle ownership
income tax" which is more fair: every user of the road
pays his share.
I'm very against idea of penalizing EVers making them to pay
more *for road repair* than others do, it must be the same.
But it should not be free to them.
I agree EVers should pay *nothing* for gas related health
problems of in general for anything they don't contribute to.
But, sorry, not roads repair. Just my opinion.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
>I don't think they've look into lithium batteries
>recently.
They have, maybe just not as much as you'd expect.
Mitsubishi for instance has built 4 different electric cars
using Lithium batteries:
They built a battery electric FTO that could be fast charged
in 20 minutes. It travelled over 1,200 miles in 24 hours
including stopping to charge for an average speed of more
than 50 mph, including charge time.
They built a battery electric Eclipse that could do 250
miles per charge at high speeds, and over 400 miles per
charge on Japan's urban roads at low speeds.
They built their battery electric Lancer that uses in-wheel
motors and goes over 150 miles per charge, does 112 mph, and
has 280 horsepower on tap.
Then there's the Colt EV they supposedly plan to mass
produce that does 90 mph and 90 miles per charge. If the
Japanese government subsidizes it so that they can ekep
ICE-like profit margins, they claim it will sell for about
$15,000-20,000 iirc. No plans for American release.
>They might not have even looked into EV's since the
>late 1990's.
They probably have, but they just don't want to sell them
and compromise their current market, despite some facing
bankruptcy.
In the late 90s, they were perhaps thinking short term. SUVs
had the largest profit margins, and anything that threatened
those profits was arguably supressed while the high
maintenance, high profit vehicles were agressively marketed
to create a consumer want. Now things have changed. Gas
prices are quickly catching up with reality, but many are
still endorsing SUVs as sales show a long term downward
trend, and slowly beginning to embrace hybrids for the short
to medium term, fuel cells for the long term(except GM, who
keeps claiming its fuel cell cars are 3-5 years from now).
If the auto industry wanted to sell EVs, they could right
now. The late 1990s is about the time that the technology
became ready to enter the market in significant numbers, but
the politics, greed, and short-sightedness persist. The NiMH
battery offered a realistic 150-200 mile range in a Geo
Metro sized sedan and perhaps capability for 150 or so
horsepower in a car with a properly sized pack. Without mass
production, this battery had no shot at being viable, but
with mass production, ECD chairman Robert Stemple himself
put the price at $150/kWh. Cheap!
Lithium is not needed, but it is better in many aspects!
>They could take their existing car and truck models >and
with very little modification make them electric
>powered.
Designing from scratch would yield much better results.
Converting already existing platforms limits range and
performance due to limitations in battery room and battery
accessibility.
>They ideally should use off the shelf motors,
>controllers, chargers, and batteries, instead of the
>custom black box parts they are known for making and
>using.
That's what Alan Cocconi wanted to do, but he was virtually
ignored. Instead of cheap off the shelf Optimas, GM wanted
to use expensive Delco and Panasonics. He also wanted his
inverter to be his charger, but the company saw an
opportunity to force the consumer to buy another
profit-margin laden item by keeping the charger a seperate
and purchasable commodity and forcing reliance on the
inductive paddle charger as opposed to something capable of
using any 110/220V outlet.
>What kind of range could they get with lithium?
Heavy Detroit iron with little concern for efficiency:
100-150 miles per charge
Mid sized car like a Prius: 200-250 miles per charge
Efficient sports car or 2-seat commuter car designed from
the ground up: 250-350 miles per charge
This is with Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer batteries. If
and when Lithium Sulphur takes over, those respective ranges
can be more than doubled.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been on the road for 1.3 years now, 144V pack o'
floodies, USBatt. 8V.
I had in "incident," precipitated by trying to adjust
the voltage trimpot to 193V, due to coming into
winter.
The PFC did not taper back the current. Rather it
stayed around 20A or so for several hours.
My undertanding was that as the voltage rises, the
charger pulls back on the current!
Perhaps they've never really had a _hard_ eq., and are
soaking up the charge like there's no tomorrow-- but I
doubt it.
Ever since then, my batteries and charger just don't
seem to be in step with each other.
My batteries all read 8.4V at rest, and are 1.265 SG.
Tester said they look like they came off the
manufacturer's workbench yesterday. (They've
generally had fairly shallow discharges, and I've been
fairly careful about staying above cell-reversal
point).
I thought I had boiled off a ton of active material.
Yet when I took a sample battery in for a load test,
it performed like new. True, the electrolyte looked
like the Mississipi, but it all settles to the
bottom...
Today, I had the rig on charge at 175V, and the
cutback light came on, so I tried to up the voltage.
The voltage wouldn't rise. (From calibration
procedure).
Finally, I upped the current knob. The voltage went
up, but the current does too, and I'd prefer to baby
the batteries from now on.
I guess what I'm wondering, is if the batteries have
been stressed, and I'll need to treat them like
Trojans from now on! (ie, lower voltage spec
recharge). Yes, I realize as batteries age, their
voltage will drop.
Any insight is deeply appreciated as this is quite
vexing.
Sincerely,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Of these which have 14" tire size. >
GM L-body
Buick Skyhawk '75-'81
Chevrolet Vega, Monza '71-'81
Pontiac Sunbird, Astre '76-'81
Oldsmobile Starfire '75-'81
If they are these might be the ones. . LR...........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Low rolling resistance tires
> OK so the GEM is the same as the Th!nk but what standard bolt pattern
fits. Honda, Toyota or ???? Thanks for the info. LR......
4 on 4" (101.6 mm)
Austin-Healey Sprite
Crosley - all '39-'52
MG Midget
Jensen Healey
Opel Manta, Kadette, GT
GM L-body
Buick Skyhawk '75-'81
Chevrolet Vega, Monza '71-'81
Pontiac Sunbird, Astre '76-'81
Oldsmobile Starfire '75-'81
I believe 76-80 Honda Accords also have this pattern at a +20mm offset
Given that info, an adapter might be an easier find :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think they've look into lithium batteries recently. They
might not have even looked into EV's since the late 1990's.
I think with the advent of the Nissan Altra with a very small pack they
know. They shutter in their shoes about it. It'll happen but not easily.
I can't wait till someone offers BMS and lithiums at a reasonable price.
Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVDL CA Folks:
I'm posting this because it seems that there is some
misinformation going on regarding registering EV conversions in
California. It appears that Dave Bolin has bought a 1987 Ford
Escort conversion, and is having troubles getting it registered,
and is currently stuck with a temporary registration. The
nitty-gritty details are below. While I already know about the
business of having to take the vehicle to a referee to be
inspected, I had never heard about the special construction
vehicle certification cost of $10,000 (yeow!). My feeling is
that the Contra Costa ref is dishing out BS, as well as perhaps
some others in state government. In the meantime, poor Mr. Bolin
is probably not wearing much of an EV grin. We've had
conversions done this year in CA that were put together from
non-kit (VoltsRabbit, KTA, etc. - don't know if these count as
"certified") parts, right?
Anyways, I searched my EVDL archives I have on my harddrive,
which are quite complete back through July 2004 or thereabouts,
and didn't find anything pertinent to this case.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
> To NBEAA members:
> If anyone can help Dave Bolin, please email your suggestions to
Sherry Boschert
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> or call Dave Bolin 1-800-655-4806.
>
> Don McGrath, Secretary, NBEAA
>
>
> Sherry,
>
> When I registered my EV conversion several years ago, the local
DMV office didn't
> seem to know how to do it. I finally found out that I had to
take it to a referee. The
> nearest one to me was in Santa Rosa. I live in Napa Valley.
So I had to rent a car
> hauler trailer, put the EV on the trailer and haul it to Santa
Rosa. I was afraid that the
> EV wouldn't have enough range to get to Santa Rosa. So that
hasn't changed.
>
> I don't know anything about "state-approved conversion kits".
I would suggest he talk
> to the Bureau of Automotive Repair, get the address and phone
number of the
> referee in Santa Rosa, and make an appointment in Santa Rosa.
If that referee
> gives him a certificate, then he can take it to his local DMV
office.
>
> I will forward your email to our membership. Maybe someone
will have a more up-to-
> date answer for you.
>
> Don McGrath
>
> On 25 Nov 2005 at 14:16, Sherry Boschert wrote:
>
> > Hi Don,
> >
[snip]
> > Could someone in the North Bay chapter help this guy
> > out?
> >
> > Here's the story:
> >
> > Dave Bolin: 800-655-4806 (w)or can leave a message at
> > his wife Katie's work at 707-274-3322
> >
> > He bought a used 1987 Ford Escort conversion 6 weeks
> > ago that he said had never been registered as an EV.
> > When he talks with EV drivers, they all tell him he
> > should be able to get it certified as an EV and
> > registered at his local DMV. But the DMV and state
> > officials tell him that things changed as of Jan. 1,
> > 2005, and it's not so simple any more.
> >
> > He spoke with the DMV and with the Air Resource
> > Board's John Swanson (800-242-4450). Swanson said
> > something about the car companies suing the state, and
> > that he has to get the ARB lawyers to draft new
> > language for conversions, and that this takes time,
> > and he has more important things to worry about, blah
> > blah blah.
> >
> > The DMV and Swanson told him that right now the only
> > way to register a new EV conversion is to take it to a
> > "referee" of the Bureau of Automotive Repair for
> > inspection. The closest referee to him is in Santa
> > Rosa, which is 90 miles away.
> >
> > Mr. Bolin got a call from a referee named Henry (who
> > wouldn't give his last name or phone number) in Contra
> > Costa County who explained that unless the conversion
> > is done with a state-approved conversion kit (with an
> > appropriate kit number), it's considered a "special
> > construction vehicle" and will cost $10,000 for
> > certification to be registered.
> >
> > Mr. Bolin did manage to get a temporary registration
> > sticker that's good to the end of December. But he's
> > wondering what he can do.
> >
> > Anyone have any idea how accurate any of this is?
> > Anyone willing to call and find out? Know anyone who's
> > done a new conversion this year? Want to post a query
> > on one of the listservs?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your help,
> >
> >
> > Sherry Boschert
> > President
> > San Francisco Electric Vehicle Association
> > 415-681-7716
> > www.sfeva.org
> >
> > No gas. No oil. No emissions. Drive electric!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My insurance company gives me a discount because my work is so close to
my home. Maybe you have the wrong insurance company?
Steven Lough wrote:
On the other hand... As I read on, the idea is to TAX by the mile.
That makes sense, if you couple it with TAX by car weight too. Heavy
vehcle, more ware and tear on the road. MORE TAX. More miles
traveled, More Tax Paid. This is IMHO.. fair. Now if we could
get the Insurance Industry to sell car inssurance by the mile also...
That would be even MORE fair.
...I guess this is OLD NEWS, but here is a CBS story (print and video)
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/14/eveningnews/main674120.shtml
Student buys Hybrid to cut his monthly gas bill by
$300. and then Oregon thinking about road tax by the mile....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry,
Check out the maxmpg yahoo discussion group. Even though it's
mainly for ICEs we talk a lot about aerodynamics and there are pics
posted of what a lot of us are doing.
John Shelton
www.maxmpg.org
On 11/24/05, jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Patrick and All,
>
> Patrick Maston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Has anyone tried vortex
> generators and/or strakes on their EV to produce
> an "aerodynamic boattail" to reduce drag from the rear of the vehicle?
> If so, what do you estimate the improvement in efficiency to be?
>
> I've been advocating them for yrs but no one seems to want to use
> them despite a high sped range improvement of 5-10%. It of curse depends on
> the EV. Ones with rounded rears like the Sparrow, VW bug, ect could use them
> the most by making the diverging vortexes smaller or even changing them to
> converging ones, thus less drag..
> HTH's,
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Don
looked at your web site , nice job, can't have to many ev web site's ,
didn't see www.grassrootsev.com on you links :-) ( just joking ) . Anyway I
saw a picture of a 1929 Mercedes like the one I converted , and now needs a
side curtain ( snap on window) for driver side . Was wondering if you or
anyone one the list would know where I could buy them form. .
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don B. Davidson III" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
This brings up a question from a new EV owner:
I recently purchased three EV's (used/kit/conversion) Tax time is around
the
corner. Anything I can claim on my taxes as these are ZEV (zero emission
vehicles)?
I will be facing NY State Dept of Motor Vehicles for the first time next
spring when I register my EV. Again, can I expect any "incentives" for
using
a ZEV or can I expect to be penalized for not buying gasoline and paying
the
"gas" tax? If that turns out to be the case, that's as silly as
penalizing
SUV's forcing them to pay more insurance because they will cause more
damage
than they will suffer in an accident. Just because the car is safer,
means
you have to pay more insurance? That's insane. As insane as it would be to
be forced to pay a tax for not polluting the air we breathe. Thought that
was the reason we have EV's (to save the atmosphere).
Don Davidson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.spaces.msn.com/members/dbd3
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/662.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry halstead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
On Nov 26, 2005, at 12:07 PM, Steven Lough wrote:
> Yesterday at about 4pm, got a call from KOMO-TV, our local ABC
> affiliate here in Seattle. He wanted me to do an "ON-CAMERA"
> interview as a Hybrid owner, as to what I thought about a proposal
> put forward by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce that high - mileage
> vehicles should be TAXED extra because they are using the same
> roads with SUV,s and other vehicles which buy more gas, pay more
> tax, yet the Hybrids pay LESS gas TAX...
I ran into something similar when registering our first EV. They
made us pay double the registration fee since we wouldn't be paying
any gasoline taxes. I figured arguing with the clerk would be of
little avail. It was fun enough trying to convince her that the car
had zero cynlinders.
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve and All,
Here is a person that supplies parts for many orphaned
kitcars, especially Classic Motor Cars from Miami and older Fiberfab's may be
able to help you, others.
http://www.fiberfabparts.com/
If you just need a vinyl snap in window, most good Boat
awning makers can do it. Check under boat upolstery in your yellow pages.
Convertiable car top makes may be able to help too.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
STEVE CLUNN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Don
looked at your web site , nice job, can't have to many ev web site's ,
didn't see www.grassrootsev.com on you links :-) ( just joking ) . Anyway I
saw a picture of a 1929 Mercedes like the one I converted , and now needs a
side curtain ( snap on window) for driver side . Was wondering if you or
anyone one the list would know where I could buy them form. .
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don B. Davidson III"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
> This brings up a question from a new EV owner:
>
> I recently purchased three EV's (used/kit/conversion) Tax time is around
> the
> corner. Anything I can claim on my taxes as these are ZEV (zero emission
> vehicles)?
>
> I will be facing NY State Dept of Motor Vehicles for the first time next
> spring when I register my EV. Again, can I expect any "incentives" for
> using
> a ZEV or can I expect to be penalized for not buying gasoline and paying
> the
> "gas" tax? If that turns out to be the case, that's as silly as
> penalizing
> SUV's forcing them to pay more insurance because they will cause more
> damage
> than they will suffer in an accident. Just because the car is safer,
> means
> you have to pay more insurance? That's insane. As insane as it would be to
> be forced to pay a tax for not polluting the air we breathe. Thought that
> was the reason we have EV's (to save the atmosphere).
> Don Davidson
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.spaces.msn.com/members/dbd3
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/662.html
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerry halstead"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
>
>
>> On Nov 26, 2005, at 12:07 PM, Steven Lough wrote:
>> > Yesterday at about 4pm, got a call from KOMO-TV, our local ABC
>> > affiliate here in Seattle. He wanted me to do an "ON-CAMERA"
>> > interview as a Hybrid owner, as to what I thought about a proposal
>> > put forward by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce that high - mileage
>> > vehicles should be TAXED extra because they are using the same
>> > roads with SUV,s and other vehicles which buy more gas, pay more
>> > tax, yet the Hybrids pay LESS gas TAX...
>>
>> I ran into something similar when registering our first EV. They
>> made us pay double the registration fee since we wouldn't be paying
>> any gasoline taxes. I figured arguing with the clerk would be of
>> little avail. It was fun enough trying to convince her that the car
>> had zero cynlinders.
>>
>> -Jerry
>>
>> http://www.evconvert.com/
>>
>>
>
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steven Lough writes:
>
> Yesterday at about 4pm, got a call from KOMO-TV, our local ABC affiliate
> here in Seattle. He wanted me to do an "ON-CAMERA" interview as a
> Hybrid owner, as to what I thought about a proposal put forward by the
> U.S. Chamber of Commerce that high - mileage vehicles should be TAXED
> extra because they are using the same roads with SUV,s and other
> vehicles which buy more gas, pay more tax, yet the Hybrids pay LESS gas
> TAX...
> I was out of town at a family gathering, and could not oblige. I
> think I would have gone POSTAL in front of the camera any way....
You could've turned the conversation around and proposed a weight-mile
road repair tax on all vehicles, to be collected at registration renewal
time. This sort of tax fairly charges road repairs to all vehicles based
on their weight and usage of the roads. Lighter and/or low-mileage vehicles
pay less tax, regardless of fuel type.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bob,
I have a PFC-50 on my Trojan T-145's 260 AH batteries, that will do the same
thing yours system does, if I adjusted at a higher voltage and lower current.
My batteries are 180 volt pack that I may balance charge to 233 volts at times,
normally I charge them at 225 volts. To get to 225 volts, I must have the
current adjust at 45 amps to get the voltage rise to 225 volts in 40 minutes or
less.
If I only charge them at 30 amps, it may take two hours to even get to 222
volts.
I find If I charge them very fast at 50 amps, the voltage will rise in with 15
to 20 minutes until the pack reaches 225 volts, then the voltage will hold at
225 volts and the amperes tapers back very slow, like it has stop. Checking
the SG at the time, show that its still only 75 to 80 % charge.
If I slow charge it at 30 amps which the voltage takes forever to rise to 222
volts and at times never get to 225 volts, the batteries at about 100% charge.
While I am charging and the yellow cutback light comes on and then the timer
blue light comes on, I find I have a second or two to adjust the voltage limit
up which will make the time out lights go off. The voltage will then continue
to rise.
I find If I do not have the screw driver on the voltage adjustment and wait too
long, then any adjustment will not work. I must then turn the current down
which re cycles the charger and try again.
I found that when I was doing 45 to 50 amp charging, the batteries was only
getting a surface charge. It takes more time to defuse the depth of thick
plates allowing time for the acid to come to the surface of the plates. If I
charge to 225 volts at 50 amps the first time, the SG may be at 1.275, the next
charge, it may be to 1.270 and the next 1.265.
Therefore to get back to 1.275, I must charge at a longer time or to a higher
voltage.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Bath<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 11:16 PM
Subject: Having difficulty (re)programming PFC-20
I've been on the road for 1.3 years now, 144V pack o'
floodies, USBatt. 8V.
I had in "incident," precipitated by trying to adjust
the voltage trimpot to 193V, due to coming into
winter.
The PFC did not taper back the current. Rather it
stayed around 20A or so for several hours.
My undertanding was that as the voltage rises, the
charger pulls back on the current!
Perhaps they've never really had a _hard_ eq., and are
soaking up the charge like there's no tomorrow-- but I
doubt it.
Ever since then, my batteries and charger just don't
seem to be in step with each other.
My batteries all read 8.4V at rest, and are 1.265 SG.
Tester said they look like they came off the
manufacturer's workbench yesterday. (They've
generally had fairly shallow discharges, and I've been
fairly careful about staying above cell-reversal
point).
I thought I had boiled off a ton of active material.
Yet when I took a sample battery in for a load test,
it performed like new. True, the electrolyte looked
like the Mississipi, but it all settles to the
bottom...
Today, I had the rig on charge at 175V, and the
cutback light came on, so I tried to up the voltage.
The voltage wouldn't rise. (From calibration
procedure).
Finally, I upped the current knob. The voltage went
up, but the current does too, and I'd prefer to baby
the batteries from now on.
I guess what I'm wondering, is if the batteries have
been stressed, and I'll need to treat them like
Trojans from now on! (ie, lower voltage spec
recharge). Yes, I realize as batteries age, their
voltage will drop.
Any insight is deeply appreciated as this is quite
vexing.
Sincerely,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html<http://www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html>
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
You "converted" to electric your 1929 Mercedes? I imagine there's room under
the hood for lots of batteries as the VW pan is stretched to accommodate
this hood.
What I've got is the unassembled kit of the Bradley Baron (1929 Mercedes
replica) As this kit has sat in dad's barn since 1980, no guarantees how
"complete" this kit may be. I do provide the modified stretched VW pan and
remanufactured 1600 CC stock VW ICE
I certainly don't have the time, energy or $ to assemble the Baron
Don Davidson
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: Extra TAX/ snap on windows/ WHAT !!
> Hi Don
> looked at your web site , nice job, can't have to many ev web site's ,
> didn't see www.grassrootsev.com on you links :-) ( just joking ) . Anyway
I
> saw a picture of a 1929 Mercedes like the one I converted , and now needs
a
> side curtain ( snap on window) for driver side . Was wondering if you or
> anyone one the list would know where I could buy them form. .
> Steve Clunn
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don B. Davidson III" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:41 PM
> Subject: Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
>
>
> > This brings up a question from a new EV owner:
> >
> > I recently purchased three EV's (used/kit/conversion) Tax time is around
> > the
> > corner. Anything I can claim on my taxes as these are ZEV (zero emission
> > vehicles)?
> >
> > I will be facing NY State Dept of Motor Vehicles for the first time next
> > spring when I register my EV. Again, can I expect any "incentives" for
> > using
> > a ZEV or can I expect to be penalized for not buying gasoline and paying
> > the
> > "gas" tax? If that turns out to be the case, that's as silly as
> > penalizing
> > SUV's forcing them to pay more insurance because they will cause more
> > damage
> > than they will suffer in an accident. Just because the car is safer,
> > means
> > you have to pay more insurance? That's insane. As insane as it would be
to
> > be forced to pay a tax for not polluting the air we breathe. Thought
that
> > was the reason we have EV's (to save the atmosphere).
> > Don Davidson
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > www.spaces.msn.com/members/dbd3
> >
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/662.html
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jerry halstead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:30 PM
> > Subject: Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
> >
> >
> >> On Nov 26, 2005, at 12:07 PM, Steven Lough wrote:
> >> > Yesterday at about 4pm, got a call from KOMO-TV, our local ABC
> >> > affiliate here in Seattle. He wanted me to do an "ON-CAMERA"
> >> > interview as a Hybrid owner, as to what I thought about a proposal
> >> > put forward by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce that high - mileage
> >> > vehicles should be TAXED extra because they are using the same
> >> > roads with SUV,s and other vehicles which buy more gas, pay more
> >> > tax, yet the Hybrids pay LESS gas TAX...
> >>
> >> I ran into something similar when registering our first EV. They
> >> made us pay double the registration fee since we wouldn't be paying
> >> any gasoline taxes. I figured arguing with the clerk would be of
> >> little avail. It was fun enough trying to convince her that the car
> >> had zero cynlinders.
> >>
> >> -Jerry
> >>
> >> http://www.evconvert.com/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Back to reality....battery swapping would be practical with a compact 400
lb. LiIon battery that could be ejected and inserted like a fat CD in a
big slot at the rear just under the trunk floor.
Back out of reality , with the above set up one could have a lead pack for
there normal driving and when a long trip is planned plug in the higher cost
battery that you rent form the local EV shop. another though for the long ,
pure electric trips would be to tow a trailer full of batteries , . Could
rent the trailer when you pull on the super hi way , exchange the trailer
every 200 miles . I'm getting ready to jam 40 golfers in my work truck ,
mostly so I can dump charge the electric mower but I'm also thinking about
being able to drive over 100 miles and all the new places I can go .
Steve Clunn
With that kind of
weight and size, a small metal dolly on rollers would be all one would
need. On the other hand, using a 400 lb. advanced LiIon battery with 200
miles range per charge and a good fast charger, the need to swap out
batteries would be minimized.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You have to put some of that stuff into context though - who would need to
replace a swingarm? They are not the easiest things to manufacture. The
brakes are definately too expensive though. I would have thought that if
you were building a car like that you would use ready off the shelf parts so
someone could go to a regular auto parts store for brake and suspension
parts.
-----Original Message-----
From: jerry dycus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 11:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Myers motors update
Hi Rod and All,
Look under sevice. Check out the price for the rear
swing arm, $1900+ !! I'd have a hard time keeping a straight face charging
$500 for that assembly !!
If you look under values, you'll find that apparently
God told them to overprice this stuff !!
Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I looked all over and could not find pricing, just a
page that said 'contact Myers Motors'.
Where did you find prices?
Rod
--- Roderick Wilde wrote:
> If you think the price for the vehicle is high go to
> the service section to
> see what it will cost you for new brake pads.
> http://www.myersmotors.com/index.html It appears
> they only come with the
> spindle, hub, disc, and caliper assembly. At least
> that is the impression
> you are left with.
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shawn Rutledge"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 11:00 AM
> Subject: Re: Myers motors update
>
>
> > On 11/24/05, Ken Trough
> wrote:
> >> > Myers Motors Unveils
> >> > the NmG (No More Gas) Electric Vehicle
> >>
> >> I'm very glad that a freeway capable EV is being
> produced domestically,
> >> but they should have hired a marketing firm to
> come up with a good name
> >> for the product. I think that name choice is as
> weird as the body of the
> >> car.
> >
> > Yeah no kidding. What was wrong with Sparrow?
> Back in 2000 or so I
> > actually knew a girl who wanted one, and she
> wasn't even very weird.
> > Goes to show they had marketing figured out, at
> least.
> >
> > But at this price we can just pretend it doesn't
> exist, like everyone
> > else is going to do.
> >
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How would they compute it? I would think that an odometer check and a
vehicle weight calculation would be more fair than a gas tax. That way
people who want to buy big SUVs would pay more. It would also drive the big
3 to start paring down the weight of their cars. Each year cars come out
with more and more horsepower and everyone thinks "Woo Hoo" but what you
don't see is the cars are getting heavier and heavier requiring the car to
HAVE more horsepower to move the behemouth. I believe the new Dodge Charger
weighs 4200 pounds. Wholy Crap! My Chevy 3/4 ton pickup weighs 5300 pounds
and a new 2005 3/4 ton 4x4 Dodge with a deisel tips the scales at close to
8000!
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
Steven Lough wrote:
> Yesterday at about 4pm, got a call from KOMO-TV, our local ABC affiliate
> here in Seattle. He wanted me to do an "ON-CAMERA" interview as a
> Hybrid owner, as to what I thought about a proposal put forward by the
> U.S. Chamber of Commerce that high - mileage vehicles should be TAXED
> extra because they are using the same roads with SUV,s and other
> vehicles which buy more gas, pay more tax, yet the Hybrids pay LESS gas
> TAX...
Gas tax goes to fix roads, isn't it? At least big part of it.
So don't call it gas tax, call is "road fix" tax. Do you feel
better then? Your EV damages roads to about the same degree
that identical weight gas cars. And it's not the fault of the
folks driving them that they must use gas to move.
So is it fair you use/damage the same roads the same way but
don't pay for their repair just because your fuel is different?
Fas tax is just convenient way to collect money since
gasoline users use roads. It could easily have been
(and may be will be in gasless future) a "vehicle ownership
income tax" which is more fair: every user of the road
pays his share.
I'm very against idea of penalizing EVers making them to pay
more *for road repair* than others do, it must be the same.
But it should not be free to them.
I agree EVers should pay *nothing* for gas related health
problems of in general for anything they don't contribute to.
But, sorry, not roads repair. Just my opinion.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Forgot to mention...im trying to get two solar panels for a total of
24v...so divide 1.6m^2 (total area) into two sections....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Lee Hart wrote:
> > You can put a 12 volt regulator across a pair of series connected
> > 6 volt blocks. No modifications are necessary.
>
> Mark Freidberg wrote:
> > But couldn't the two batts develop a voltage spread, one low, one
> > high, masked by an okay average voltage?
>
> Yes, it could. Ideally, you'd monitor right down to the individual cell.
> But the amount of equipment it takes is too expensive. You only do it
> with something like lithium batteries where ever a slight under- or
> over-voltage can be disasterous.
>
> So we compromise, and measure every X cells. Not as good, but cheaper
> and easier. X=6 for a 12v battery when you monitor every 6 cells. The
> larger X is, the worse it works but the cheaper it gets, until the
> extreme where X is your total number of cells and all you measure is the
> total pack voltage.
I have long argued that having block-by-block continuous equalization of a pack
will pay off, and now I claim to have the evidence. 13 blocks, 10 years,
23,000 miles.
On Friday, November 26th 2005 I swapped out the 13 gelled electrolyte, sealed,
maintenance-free, valve regulated lead-acid 12 volt blocks in my 1995 Solectria
Force and replaced them with equivalent blocks (same form-factor and chemistry
from the same manufacturer -- that way the charger and BADICHEQ ((BAttery
DIagnostic and CHarge EQualizing system)) did not need to be reconfigured).
12 of the blocks are the originals from 1995; one was replaced in April 1998
when the BADICHEQ showed it was getting weak much faster than the others. I
think it was damaged before the BADICHEQ was installed.
The car has 23,000 miles on it and the evidence is that all the blocks aged at
very close to the same rate. All the cases expanded a little bit and clearly
showed the cell-by-cell expansion was very uniform. There was no evidence of
corrosion at the terminals, and very little evidence of gassing around the
seals. These were East Penn Manufacturing Gell-Tech 8G27s. The replacements
are East Penn Solar 8G27s, with almost identical cases and specifications.
I credit the BADICHEQ and relatively gentle driving for the long life.
I intend to write up a fuller report on "10-years of driving electric" to tell
the story, but the bottom line is that a good, intelligent, block-by-block
equalizing charger is essential to having an electric car that delivers long
battery life and is not an on-going maintenance chore.
BTW, the evidence is that BADICHEQ is still sold, at least in Germany.
http://www.mentzer.de/BADICHEQ_-_SNMP.117.0.html?&L=1&ext_search=1
Another variation on the theme is the PowerCheq Battery Equalizer. If I didn't
have the BADICHEQ, I would probably have these ...
http://www.powerdesigners.com/powercheq.htm
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:57 AM
Subject: RE: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
> How would they compute it?
Maybe like the Taiwanese? They tax by engine displacement, for tags.
That's why their Datsun 'Bluebird" Taxis were 999.CC Just under the wire,
Over There. They had a problem with Electrics, as I didn't EVen HAVE any
stinkin' pistons! At 85 bux for 2 years, for tags, I feel that I do my share
in CT to help pay for the roads!With todaze Led Acid battery technology I
don't USE the roads as much as I'd like to!
I would think that an odometer check and a
> vehicle weight calculation would be more fair than a gas tax. That way
> people who want to buy big SUVs would pay more. It would also drive the
big
> 3 to start paring down the weight of their cars. Each year cars come out
> with more and more horsepower and everyone thinks "Woo Hoo" but what you
> don't see is the cars are getting heavier and heavier requiring the car to
> HAVE more horsepower to move the behemouth. I believe the new Dodge
Charger
> weighs 4200 pounds. Wholy Crap! My Chevy 3/4 ton pickup weighs 5300
pounds
> and a new 2005 3/4 ton 4x4 Dodge with a deisel tips the scales at close to
> 8000!
Same on the RR The Amtrak Acela Express weighs twice as much as the
French TGV, the Gold Standard in hi-speed rail, of which it is based .No
wonder they, Amtrak, had brake problems last summer.Reason given, it had to
meet tough American RR crash standards. So it wouldn't disolve, like the
Japan Commuter job that derailed and was wiped out hitting a building! We
take down buildings with great elan and ease here, in derailments!Back to
roads stuff.
> Hi All;
This is why it's so damn hard to suggest a decent glider for a
conversion, nowadaze! Hell, Rabbit size cars weigh as much as my Rabbit
CONVERSION, with all batteries stuffed in it.As a GAS rig! 3100 lbs is not
uncommon for small cars!As Jerry says, it seems to be the way to go to start
from scratch. We could PICK UP the Solectria Sunrise body!Yeah, I know the
doors, seats and other stiff that makes it a "car" wern't aboard, but I
couldn't pick up a gutted out Rabbit like that. I know as I have junked
enough Rabbits over the years. They get light stripped out, but you DON'T
just pick them up.Winched them onto a small boat trailer for their final
ride.
So for best results we hafta go with OLD cars, 1200 Datsuns , Rabbits,
Carman ghea's Sigh! Crappy, need repair ones as there sure arent any clean
ones in the Big East! Or trux, but you need a pile of leads to get enough
go.Well, til we can get purpose built bodies.THAT'S what I'm betting on!
Seeya
Bob>
--- End Message ---
