EV Digest 4949
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: batteries
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Switching Capacitor Circuit
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) thanks
by "Jay's peoplestar account" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Clinton Library EV Charge station
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: batteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Battery Beach Burnout Races!?
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Ac vs Dc
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EDTA Conference Vancouver BC - Comments - Questions
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Inertia Switch
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: batteries
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Motor-gearbox connection problem + clutchless idea (Don?)
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Battery Beach Burnout (FL Race) Update
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: batteries
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Inertia Switch
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Fourth Generation Pot
by Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Fwd: Battery Beach Burnout Races!?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Inertia Switch
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Battery Beach Burnout Races!?
by James Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Solectria Tilt bed lift
by "Ralph Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Kaboom! (was NAPA Floddies)
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Schwinn Stingray conversion.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) HV DC/DC
by "karmann_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
by toltec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Fourth Generation Pot
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I've been using the Low Profile Terminals (number 6) on batteries
for the last 24,000 miles (16K on the T875's , 8K on the T890's so far)
and have had no problems with them. With my civic, I only pull a
maximum of 350 amps max (for about 20 seconds) and average about 100
Amps. Your S10 probably pulls higher current, but if you keep the
terminals tightened to specification, you should be ok.
Lynn
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 11:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: batteries
Hey all:
Well, I am trying to outfit an S-10 conversion designed for T-105's.
Trojan, in its infinate wisdom, has decided to change the type posts
they make available on its batteries and I question if it is designed to
allow for higher amp flow - not enough surface contact between the cable
and the post. Please see the link:
http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/ProductSpec.aspx?Name=T-105
for a better view of their "new" posts. Even the battery dealer has
problems with this design but Trojan will not respond to them.
I am now faced with three options:
1. Have the dealer weld an acceptable (what I have always been taught
to call an SAE) post on 20 batteries. Both the dealer and a fellow
customer of the dealer (a golf cart company) would not recommend this.
2. Go with a Johnson Battery with the same foot print as a T-105 and
a one year warantee (their web page sucks, all I have found out from the
dealer is that the battery is an A1055 and the web page indicates that
it is made in Mexico)
www.gesbatterysystems.com
3. Go with a Crown Battery with the same foot print as a T-105 and a
two year warantee (a CR255)
http://www.crownbattery.com/en/products/sli/dc_battery_spec%27s.htm
I am sure that on paper and via the salespeople, both batteries are
great and would provide years and miles of extreme pleasure (just the
Exide was supposed to do years ago on a different car - it did not). My
question: Is any one familiar with the Johnson or Crown battery and
rather or not they can accept the load requirements of an EV?
Jim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We talked about that awhile ago. Some prototype hybrids have mention of
using them. It is particularly interesting for compensating for a
battery technology that does not have a high surge rating. One guy here
did a moderate smoky burnout entirely on the caps, there is a neat video
of it. However, even among ultracaps the overall capacity is not
great. We didn't see what speed the car would have ended up at by the
time they were discharged but it would probably not be an impressive 1/4
mi time. So I'm not sure how much gain it would get you getting you up
an onramp.
The largest issue is a bank of ultracaps is incredibly expensive. It
seems likely that to do an impressive job several banks might be
needed. They are generally considered light but so many caps will take
up quite a bit of volume.
Among other issues it would need some special power converters to really
do it correctly. Unlike a battery, a cap's voltage varies enormously
with its state of charge.
Danny
Mueller, Craig M wrote:
Somehow, I'm guessing this one has gone around before, but the last
thread I found in the archives was 2001, so here goes...
Is it possible to set up a bank of capacitors to equalize to the main
traction pack voltage (e.g. 2 parallel strings of 120v) and then become
isolated during the acceleration phase and switched into a higher
voltage (e.g. setting two parallel 120v banks to a series bank - 240v)
for acceleration improvement without diminishing the life of the
batteries.
In total, if this is possible, it may be a great solution for longevity
+ performance. I expect the enclosure for the caps would be critical
(safety), and have yet to calculate to see if the required capacitance
would yeild a trailer to haul the circuit...or if caps are made to pass
400+ amps within a reasonable budget. I did run across the following
regarding 'Ultra Capacitors'...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-capacitor
The article mentions "sophisticated electronic control and switching
equipment" - which may be the reason we don't hear of this more in
practical applications (EE's - please explain if this is true). In my
simplified ideal, I figure a soft-start circuit current limited to X
amps is all that's needed with a couple micro switches and
contactors...making a 'merge circuit' and leaving the fine speed control
to the standard controller.
Thanks in advance!
Craig
Electric Daytona
http://www.geocities.com/cmmuell/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
signoff ev
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I sent an email to the Clinton Library a few weeks ago, asking
whether we might include their site on evchargernews.com, and
what the specifics of the site were. I got no reply. I believe
I found mention of the EV charging parking spaces in the SF
Chronicle newspaper.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:49 AM
Subject: Clinton Library EV Charge station
> Does anyone know the specifics on it? Just regular outlets or
special
> connector or what?
>
>
http://www.clintonfoundation.org/102705-nr-pc-gn-env-clinton-center-offers-guided-green-tours-of-its-environmental-features.htm
>
> http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/
>
> I think charging stations should say if they are on their own
breaker
> or not and what size the breaker is.
>
> Example:
>
> "Is this outlet on it's own breaker or are all four of these
outlets
> on the same breaker? Is this a 15 or 20 amp breaker? Well
what size
> is it?"
>
> I guess they never considered people having adjustable
chargers?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jim,
My Trojan's T-145's came with the low profile terminals that did not stand up
to the torque values of 95 to 105 in.lbs as specified by Trojan. The head of
the stud which is just a hex head is only 1/16 inch below the surface. I had
the old type Exides (20 years ago) that had a L-bracket head, that I could pull
180 in.lbs. that had stainless steel collars over the taper post that prevent
it from mushrooming.
To solve the problem, I install all positive brass battery terminal clamps
that could be open up to 0.820 inches that will slip over the low profile pad.
I use one that had a 3/8 bolt tapped into the brass battery connector, so I can
used my existing cable with terminal lugs.
The battery pad does not fill the battery clamp all the way up, so I install
one of those screw on lead post extension on to the stud. Cut it down so the
stud will come threw the end of the extension and be about 1/32 of inch higher
than the brass terminal clamps.
Install a stainless steel washer and nut on the stud and tighten to about 50
in.lbs. so that there is some downward force of the brass battery clamp against
the low profile pad. Then tighten up the battery clamp. If there is still a
side space between the lead extension and battery clamp, I than wrap it with
one turn of pure lead wire that comes in 1/8, 3/16, or 1/4 diameter on spools
that is normally use for making fishing weights.
The battery clamp now acts a collar to prevent any mushrooming and hardly any
shrink back.
After I spread the the brass battery clamps which did not come plated, I clean
them and lead coated the bottom and inside contact surface with pure lead using
a tinning solution that looks like water that I pick up from a industrial
welding company which is the type for stainless steel and other metals.
Do not use solder, or solder tinning paste. Tinned has a higher resistance
than copper or copper/brass alloys. This is why its is not recommended to
tinned your battery cables and solder them in. It is best to used a good
crimpier that will crimp the connection in one solid mass.
I than paint the non-contact areas of the battery connector with epoxy
appliance paint which needs no primer. ( Some battery clamps come with a epoxy
coating)
I then tighten the battery stud to 50 in.lbs., the battery clamp to 120 to 180
in.lbs and the 3/8 bolt that fasten the terminal lug to 35 ft lbs.
Its now been two years since I install these connections and they are still
holding.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 11:49 AM
Subject: batteries
Hey all:
Well, I am trying to outfit an S-10 conversion designed for T-105's.
Trojan, in its infinate wisdom, has decided to change the type posts
they make available on its batteries and I question if it is designed to
allow for higher amp flow - not enough surface contact between the
cable and the post. Please see the link:
http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/ProductSpec.aspx?Name=T-105<http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/ProductSpec.aspx?Name=T-105>
for a better view of their "new" posts. Even the battery dealer has
problems with this design but Trojan will not respond to them.
I am now faced with three options:
1. Have the dealer weld an acceptable (what I have always been
taught to call an SAE) post on 20 batteries. Both the dealer and a fellow
customer of the dealer (a golf cart company) would not recommend this.
2. Go with a Johnson Battery with the same foot print as a T-105 and
a one year warantee (their web page sucks, all I have found out from
the dealer is that the battery is an A1055 and the web page indicates
that it is made in Mexico)
www.gesbatterysystems.com<http://www.gesbatterysystems.com/>
3. Go with a Crown Battery with the same foot print as a T-105 and a
two year warantee (a CR255)
http://www.crownbattery.com/en/products/sli/dc_battery_spec%27s.htm<http://www.crownbattery.com/en/products/sli/dc_battery_spec's.htm>
I am sure that on paper and via the salespeople, both batteries are
great and would provide years and miles of extreme pleasure (just the
Exide was supposed to do years ago on a different car - it did not). My
question: Is any one familiar with the Johnson or Crown battery and
rather or not they can accept the load requirements of an EV?
Jim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Bob,
Glad to hear you'll be making down here for the races in January. I know
it's tough to leave the wintry snow and freezing rain for some sunny days at
the races and a beach barbecue, so we appreciate your sacrifice!
There are places south of the track area where the lodging is cheaper. I
just called one of the places on the list of hotels on the Battery Beach
Burnout site (http://www.batterybeach.com/hotels.html) and their current
rate is under $70 a night. That one is the Inn of America, about half way
down the list. They actually haven't nailed down rates for January yet, but
should be able to book you in December. If you call around to other hotels,
make sure you mention that you're coming for an event at Moroso since most
have a special rate for the track.
See you there!
Matt Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery Beach Burnout Races!?
Hi All;
Well, My Jet Blue tix are ready, to Jet away from cold an' snow for a few
daze. Anybody else goin"? Any of you FLA guyz know the area? Do I REALLY
hafta pay over 100 bux a nite for lodgings?I'm just guessing that the "
Strip" there, if there IS one there, would be cheepie Ma an' Pa places,
along the way.Where is EVerybody else staying?
Maybe a bit early for now, but I thought I'd bring it up.
Seeya There!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tough decision. If you search the archives and the FAQ (
http://www.evparts.com/faq/ ) there is lots of discussion on this. I have
my reasons listed on my web site:
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_IndexDriveSystem.html
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of george michals
Sent: November 29, 2005 7:10 AM
To: EV
Subject: Ac vs Dc
Hey folks,
Been lurking for a bit just wondering while looking through electro
automotives' site and at $4000 difference are the improvements of AC worth
the cash layout? Comparing the light weight AC system to the basic universal
DC system. Glider is a 1200lbs no batts, VW kit
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> My question: Is any one familiar with the Johnson or
> Crown battery and rather or not they can accept the
> load requirements of an EV?
I am familiar with the Crown battery (the larger CR325 and CR395
models), and they seem like a good product. I cannot comment on their
longevity in EV traction applications as the applications I am familiar
with tend to discharge them at less than 200A (but sustain 100A+
continuously).
I would personally go with the American-made Crown battery before going
with an unfamiliar Mexican battery.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Guy, I'll drop by Dec 3-10th and if you want to split a room at the Pan
Pacific Vancouver hotel, give me a shout at 540-473-1248.
Thanks, Mark
Mark E. Hanson
184 Vista Lane
Fincastle, VA 24090
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 11:01 AM
Subject: EDTA Conference Vancouver BC - Comments - Questions
> I have committed to attend the EDTA Conference in Vancouver BC Dec. 6-8
> with a little $$ help from SEVA, and well... it's a day after my Birthday.
>
> Want to POSE a few questions to SEVA members and EVDL readers:
>
> 1: Who are planning to attend. (Always nice to meet in person folks you
> have been chatting with for years...)
>
> 2: What questions would you like to see addressed, i.e. possible answers
> I could bring back to you all.
>
> 3: Comments on the usefulness of the Conference in General.
>
> (I know in advance, I am going to HIT HARD the Fuel Cell folks with
> tough questions about economic viability, energy-in-energy-out
> efficiency, and COST and complexity of FCV's and cost of servicing... )
>
> If you need a little INPUT to create questions, check out the EDTA Web
> site at: www.edtaconference.com/agenda.html
>
> Many Thanks to all who would respond....
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But if you're wearing your seatbelt that shouldn't be an issue and your foot
would be on the brake anyway. Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Inertia Switch
> In a crash your foot, leg, entire body may well be jammed under the dash
on
> top of the accelerator peddle.
> _____________
> Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wis.
>
> At 07:19 AM 11/29/2005, you wrote:
> >But if the main contactor is opened everytime you release your foot off
the
> >accel peddle it's not necessary unless it's rated 500A and can be placed
in
> >series with the pack but as far as I know they aren't high current
rated).
> >Mark
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Nick Austin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:34 PM
> >Subject: Re: Inertia Switch
> >
> >
> > > On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 06:23:05PM -0700, Rush wrote:
> > > > Is it recommended to have an inertia switch?
> > > >
> > >
> > > It lowers your odds of death after an accident.
> > >
> > > I think the first responders would like it more as well.
> > >
> > > Safety is always a good thing.
> > >
>
> __________
> Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can't they just order you some 105's with the automotive posts (AP)? Or do they
want you to buy a whole pallet to do that?
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hey all:
Well, I am trying to outfit an S-10 conversion designed for T-105's.
Trojan, in its infinate wisdom, has decided to change the type posts
they make available on its batteries and I question if it is designed to
allow for higher amp flow - not enough surface contact between the
cable and the post. Please see the link:
http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/ProductSpec.aspx?Name=T-105
for a better view of their "new" posts. Even the battery dealer has
problems with this design but Trojan will not respond to them.
I am now faced with three options:
1. Have the dealer weld an acceptable (what I have always been
taught to call an SAE) post on 20 batteries. Both the dealer and a fellow
customer of the dealer (a golf cart company) would not recommend this.
2. Go with a Johnson Battery with the same foot print as a T-105 and
a one year warantee (their web page sucks, all I have found out from
the dealer is that the battery is an A1055 and the web page indicates
that it is made in Mexico)
www.gesbatterysystems.com
3. Go with a Crown Battery with the same foot print as a T-105 and a
two year warantee (a CR255)
http://www.crownbattery.com/en/products/sli/dc_battery_spec%27s.htm
I am sure that on paper and via the salespeople, both batteries are
great and would provide years and miles of extreme pleasure (just the
Exide was supposed to do years ago on a different car - it did not). My
question: Is any one familiar with the Johnson or Crown battery and
rather or not they can accept the load requirements of an EV?
Jim
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Osmo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Osmo Sarin" <2005 5:18 AM
Subject: Motor-gearbox connection problem + clutchless idea (Don?)
I got the 15 kW Siemens motor for my Peugeot 206 project. The motor shaft
is splined inside:
My options:
1. To use a bolt to screw a shaft coupler into the head of the motor shaft
a la Victor: http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/coupler4.jpg .
How to prevent the shaft rotating when drilling?
You could spin the motor while drilling , ( opposite way then drill is
trunning )
Have to make a hollow
tool first (the hole is for drilling) that locks into the splines maybe.
Buy some bushing that just fit . I'd still have the motor trunning when
drilling .
2. To make a tight fit by cooling the shaft coupler before mounting inside
the shaft.
got to make the spline shaft still and would have to be just the right size
over . to big and you crack the motor shaft . also it would be the motor
shaft that would need to be heated . Maybe cooling the adaptor shaft but
would have to be very cold.
A permanent solution? Too permanent? Propably the
coupler should have two parts to be able to change the bearings of the
motor shaft if necessary:
everthing would still come apart as your new shaft is smaller that the stub
end of the motor .
the first part would be simply a "motor shaft
extension" into which the second and larger one would be bolted in.
3. No clutch (but using a clutch pedal):
Use the clutch as a switch to inhibit regen. In that case when the clutch
pedal is pressed and the accelerator pedal is released, the motor
freewheels (no drive current and no brake current.
I've driven a few clutchless cars and having a little drag on the motor
helps with the shifting , a hard regen might not but a little would help .
My 3d ev had a zapi with regen , light when you took your foot off the gas
and hard when you put your foot on the brake ( neve got that part hooked
up ). the light regen made shafting ( what little I did , as most of the
time I left it in 2nd ) easyer.
Now you can
switch gears and the synchro rings enable you to do so. Due to the
relative low inertia of the drive (no flywheel) it is possible.
I could make the synchro's work and could even hear them speed up the motor
but MOST of the them I would just let up on the go and with just a little
presser on the gear shifter wait for the motor rpm to fall and in it would
go .
The
synchro rings will wear out a bit faster than with a clutch,
I think not as if you do it right they are relly not doing that much.
but due to
the low inertia the difference will be minor. An additional advantage of
this setup is less mechanical vibrations, due to the lack of the flywheel.
If done right there shouldn't be any vibrations form the fly wheel .
4. ??
What I would do :-) is get a shaft with the spline that fits inside the
motor and is long enough to go from the motor to the tranny shaft up to the
the tranny spline. this won't be to long as many tranny shafts come out as
far as the bell housing . On the tranny side of this shaft/coupler you'll
need a hole the same size as the polit bearing and as deep . Now using the
spline form the clutch ( take a old clutch and cut everthing off , so you
just have a hub with the spline inside) find a way to attach this to your
shaft/coupler . When you have the clutch hub free of the disk their will be
some part on it that is round and that's what you will use to center it by
having it set in the lip of the hub ( we'll call it hub b) that will set
on the shaft/coupler shaft.
Now there are two ways to go hear
A . Make a hub ( hub b ) that has the same size hole as you shaft/coupler
shaft ( the shaft with the spline that fits the motor) but is big enough to
machine out a lip so that the round part of old clutch spline hub can fit in
there , this is to line up the clutch hub with the shaft/coupler and give
somthing to weld to . then weld the clutch hub to this hub , then the hub to
the shaft . here's what we have starting at the motor .
motor , shaft that has spline to fit in motor / other end with hole the size
of tranny polit shaft , on this shaft we have hub with a grove to fit some
part of the old clutch hub , which sits on the end of shaft/coulper . The
hub that is holding the old clutch spline should be long enough so that when
you weld it to the shaft/coulper you are past the part that was drilled out
for the polit bearing .
B .( fast and dirty) With your shaft that has the spline to fit the motor
and a hole in the other end that fits the tranny polit shaft weld the shaft
right to the tranny , You'll need a good tight polit hole and spin the
tranny shaft to see that there is no wobble . you'll need to weld , check ,
weld , check , then weld it good and when its hot you can tap it alittle to
straghten it out . I would do this with the tranny shaft pointed up wards
and have water running on the bottom to the tranny shaft .
I have a video that shows how to make the motor to tranny plate ,
www.grassrootsev.com
Oh yes how about a C
C . have a machine shop make a shaft with you motor spline on one end and
your tranny spline on the other. Now how much would that cost? :-)
Steve Clunn
Any comments would be appreciated,
Osmo Sarin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Matt,
Thanks for the update and clarification on the charging situation at Moroso.
That's great that you will have 50A, 240V available from a generator! My
TAL draws a continuous 27A and takes 5 hours for a full charge, which is
quite a long time. Therefore, out of consideration for those who will
actually be racing, I will plan to charge up my RAV4-EVs at my friend's
place in W. Palm Beach on the way up there so that hopefully I will not even
need to use your 240V generator-powered charging resources there at Moroso
and can leave all of that capacity for the racers. But it's reassuring to
know that it will be there just in case, in the unlikely event that I
somehow end up needing to use it.
When I made my original query two weeks ago, I had actually sent it out
both over the EVDL and via email to Shawn himself personally. But maybe
it's still sitting in that stack of several hundred emails in his inbox that
you mentioned. Well, I've certainly been backed up like that more often
than I like, so I understand, no big deal. Anyway, thanks for jumping in
and providing the update.
Congratulations on completing your Nissan 240SX conversion and getting it on
the road! Sounds like a scorcher and should be a prime contender at the
drags!
Looking forward to it!
BR,
Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 10:12 AM
Subject: RE: Battery Beach Burnout (FL Race) Update
Charles,
We're looking forward to having both of your RAV-4 EVs at the race. However,
you should not make assumptions about there being a lack of 240V charging.
There certainly will be ample charging available, both 120 and 240 volt.
Shawn has already discussed the use of Moroso's generator with the
administration there--we're just waiting to get word back from them. Lowell
has been looking into some local sponsorship of use of a large, industrial
generator from a couple companies he's worked with in the past. I've been in
contact with Rich Rudman, and he's agreed to send off the spider box so that
we've got a bunch of extra connections to run from the 50 A, 240 V generator
outlet.
In addition, in the wake of the hurricanes of this year and last, we've got
access to quite a few 4 - 7 kW generators around here, most with 240 V
outlets.
Shawn provided an email address for information on the race when he posted
about the event two weeks ago. It's "race _at_ battery beach.com". The EV
List is great for getting information distributed, but not always the best
when you're trying to get information back! Many of us, especially after the
Turkey Day holiday, are trying to dig our way out of several hundred posts
that keep building up.
We've got a great crowd of people showing up with their EVs for this event,
and I'm especially excited about finally having mine out there, too! My
Nissan 240SX is on the road now, doing it's best to find traction with an
open diff and 2000 amps of Z2K fury running through dual 9" Warps. Two
planned upgrades will put the car at 300 V with a limited slip diff before
race day. Oh, it should be fun!
We've got some exciting additions to the competitor lineup that I'll be
talking about once they're finalized this week. I'll be monitoring the list
more closely and providing more frequent updates, so stay tuned everyone!
Matt Graham
Hobe Sound, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Whalen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:43 AM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Rush Revisited [was: Battery Beach Burnout (FL Race) Update] (long)
First, an update on the charging situation at Moroso Racetrack in West Palm
Beach for those of you bringing your EVs to the race on January 21:
I never heard back from Florida EV race coordinator Shawn Waggoner on my
list query and email to him a few weeks ago about what types of charging
outlets are available at Moroso. However I was able to find out from Cliff
Rassweiler, who regularly races his EV there, that there are only 120V
outlets and unfortunately no 240V outlets, which is what I need for charging
my RAV4-EVs. I can't charge from 120V. I could still probably make it up
there and back on a single charge, but that wouldn't allow for anything
other than static display while there. However a friend of mine in W. Palm
Beach who drives an electric Porsche 959 has offered to let me charge at his
house, so that should give me plenty of additional range for offering rides
to the media and public there at Moroso during the Show & Shine Event on
Saturday afternoon, January 21.
Cliff said he isn't aware of any plans to have a generator there, and since
we never got a response from Shawn about charging availability at Moroso, it
would be safest to assume that there will only be 120V charging.
<big snip>
Best regards,
Charles Whalen
Delray Beach, FL
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On 29 Nov 2005 at 18:49, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Trojan ... has decided to change the type posts
> they make available on its batteries
US Battery will fit whatever style post you want to the batteries you order.
I like L posts, most folks here like automotive posts. Whatever, they'll
ship it the way you want it. If you don't have an Interstate dealer nearby,
they'll ship right to your door (for a fee of course).
No, I'm not a USBMC employee or dealer, I've just used their batteries for
years and have had decent service from them. IMO, they also have been
appreciably more supportive of the EV hobbyist community than Trojan have
been, even though very little of their revenue comes from us. (From what I
understand, their bread and butter is the golf car business.)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Do they really run power through the motor at a stop with the brakes
on? Or do they start creeping when you release the brakes?
A creep feature might actually save Ahr. When in heavy traffic you
creep forward with minimum amps, rather than 2x or 3x the amps or
worse when hitting the accelerator yourself.
When I rented an EV1 I was putting it in neutral myself to save the
power of the brakelights at stops, probably gaining 10 or 20 meters
of range that way. :) Anyway, doing this would sometimes lead to the
accelerator not responding after going back to drive.
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> He may be thinking of the Toyota and Honda hybrids, which *do*
> use power even
> at a dead stop. They felt it necessary to imitate the "creep" of
> an ICE with
> automatic transmission.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Anyone used the Fourth Generation Potentiometer?
Ebay #8018190219.
They claim to replace the Curtis PB6.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
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--- Begin Message ---
Wow Bob, I'm jealous. Now that you're retired you're a real EVworld traveler.
Isn't there a big
battery convention in the South of France or some such sunny location?
I'm counting down the days till I can retire and join you. Let's see, my
youngest daughter will be
out of college in about 10 years, about the same time my mortgage will be paid
off. Hopefully I'll
have my EV going before then.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Battery Beach Burnout Races!?
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:44:13 -0500
>
> Hi All;
>
> Well, My Jet Blue tix are ready, to Jet away from cold an' snow for a few
> daze. Anybody else
> goin"? Any of you FLA guyz know the area? Do I REALLY hafta pay over 100 bux
> a nite for
> lodgings?I'm just guessing that the " Strip" there, if there IS one there,
> would be cheepie Ma
> an' Pa places, along the way.Where is EVerybody else staying?
>
> Maybe a bit early for now, but I thought I'd bring it up.
>
> Seeya There!
>
> Bob
>
>
--- End Message ---
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David Dymaxion wrote:
> Do they really run power through the motor at a stop with the brakes
> on? Or do they start creeping when you release the brakes?
Yes, they really do draw current from the battery at a dead stop with the
brakes on to simulate the behavior of an automatic transmission's "creep".
Silly, isn't it?
> A creep feature might actually save Ahr. When in heavy traffic you
> creep forward with minimum amps, rather than 2x or 3x the amps or
> worse when hitting the accelerator yourself.
Probably not. Electric motor efficiency at very low horsepowers (like 1% of
rated horsepower) is very poor. From an efficiency standpoint, it would be
better to "blip" the throttle to accellerate up to 1 mph, coast back down,
and do it again. Not tire-burning accelleration; just a modest amount.
Conversely, people use creep on a hill to hold the car in place instead of
using the brakes. This certainly wastes energy!
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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I'll be heading down as well but staying with relatives, no long chats
over beer
this time, maybe we'll do it again at the Power of DC but I'm going to
stay at a
hotel with a pool for 2006.
Counting the days!
James
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Hi All;
Well, My Jet Blue tix are ready, to Jet away from cold an' snow for
a few daze. Anybody else goin"? Any of you FLA guyz know the area? Do
I REALLY hafta pay over 100 bux a nite for lodgings?I'm just guessing
that the " Strip" there, if there IS one there, would be cheepie Ma
an' Pa places, along the way.Where is EVerybody else staying?
Maybe a bit early for now, but I thought I'd bring it up.
Seeya There!
Bob
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We removed the four tie down bolts and replaced the front two with implement
quick release bolts which used a clevis type pin through the bolt. Fit
right in the same hole. Picked them up at the local farm tractor supply
house. When you wanted to lift the bed you just reached in the rear wheel
well and pulled the pin then lifted. You are right, for most people it’s a
two man lifting job!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of arthur marquardt
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 11:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Solectria Tilt bed lift
Does anyone know where people get their tilt bed lifts that you see on so
many pickup truck EV's?
Did people buy them or did they build them themselves and if so how? I am
now the proud owner of a working Solectria E-10 and would like to make it
easier to get to the batteries in back. It is hard to lift the bed up by
myself it is already hinged and has a safety support to hold it up once it
gets there. The vehicle came without the four bolts (metric) which hold down
the bed in front. Also, is there any clever quick disconnect latching scheme
for an S-10 bed?
Art
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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How bad can the Kaboom! get? Like a bomb that blows part with force, or more
like a case rupture but that basically remains in one piece?
Also, if hydrogen builds up in a battery box and ignites, is it more like a
fireball, or destructively explosive?
Have such incidents happened to EVers in the past 10-20 years?
Mark Freidberg
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Christopher Zach wrote:
> When batteries get cold, the internal resistance seems to go up.
It doesn't just seem to; it *does* go up!
> Is it possible to reverse a cell on a fully charged battery just
> because it's cold and you're drawing hard? How can that happen if
> the cell is not "dead"?
What you're probably seeing is just excessive voltage sag due to the higher
internal resistance when cold. No one cell is actually going negative.
But yes, you *can* reverse a cell that still has charge in it. Think of each
cell as a perfect 2v cell with a resistor in series. The more deeply
discharged the cell gets, the higher that resistor's value. The colder it
gets, the higher that resistor's value.
Suppose you short a cell. The short-circuit current is set by that internal
resistance. If the cell is warm and fully charged, the resistance is so low
that you could see 1000 amps or more. Keep this up for more than a few
seconds, and the lead will melt or the electrolyte will boil. Kaboom!
Destroyed battery.
If the battery is mostly dead, its internal resistance is higher. Shorting it
won't produce the enormous current, so it won't be destroyed immediately
(though you shorten its life from an excessively deep discharge).
Likewise, if it is cold, its resistance is high enough to limit the current.
However, think about where the heat being produced by the internal resistance
is going -- it is heating up the battery! So a cold but fully charged battery
initially delivers a low current, but the current rapidly rises as the
battery heats itself. There will be a short warmup period -- and then comes
the Kaboom!
All this describes what happens to a single cell. You can't reverse a single
cell, so there's little danger of immediate damage. But you CAN reverse a
cell when there are multiple cells in series! The stronger cells force
current to keep flowing thru the weaker cells, and so reverse the voltage
across them.
Forcing the voltage negative on a lead-acid battery causes it to "charge" in
the reverse direction. It isn't built to do this, and will suffer a
significant loss in capacity and life if you try.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
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If you have any trouble with the chain, the best chain as far as I
know is the KMC 510.
http://www.bikeguide.org/guides/drive/kmc.php
http://home.earthlink.net/~kmcchain/english/z510hx.html
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When Googling DC/DCs for my 336V nominal nicad system, plenty of
options from manufacturers like Lambda, RO Associates, Vicor, etc. come
up, but I lack the expertise to create control circuitry. Only
MetricMind and ElectroAuto seem to offer 'plug n play' HV DC/DC units,
at two to seven times the cost of the little bricks aforementioned.
Now I'm willing to pay for what I need, and don't want to open the
old "designed for EV use costs $" debate, but my antique has minimal
12V needs. A tailshaft pulley and alternator is looking attractive
once again, or just a big aux. battery... What are you HV DC guys out
there running?
TIA-Jay
www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
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The roads have to be paid for somehow and
to date, the use tax on fuel is the fairest and easiest tax there is
for financing them.
well, how about a road tax on TIRES, instead? ALL cars use tires, no
matter what kind of fuel modivates them, and the wear of the tire is a
pretty good indication of how much driving has been done (yeah, I know -
it's not at all perfect, and it's not neccessary to list all of the ways
it isn't)... the tax could be scaled across tire types according to
the tires' "wearability"
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--- Begin Message ---
I have one. Works fine, thought the lever arm is a little bit flimsy, but I
don't have a Curtis one to compare it to. Just check the calibration of it when
you get it, mine was a bit off.
Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Anyone used the Fourth Generation
Potentiometer?
Ebay #8018190219.
They claim to replace the Curtis PB6.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Personals
Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
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