EV Digest 4951
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Electric step van in MO
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Tango fo sale on eBay (not built yet)
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Inertia Switch
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 40 golfers in my work truck
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: HV DC-DC
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Clinton Library EV Charge station
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Inertia Switch
by Hump <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Inertia Switch
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: 2 speed tranny
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Tango fo sale on eBay (not built yet)
by Hump <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: HV DC-DC
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Kaboom! (was NAPA Floddies)Explosive Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Clinton Library EV Charge station
by "Christopher Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get? Not Very!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Chargin' Stations, was;: Clinton Library EV Charge station
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Kaboom! (was NAPA Floddies)Explosive Comments
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Battery Beach Burnout Races!?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 21 Ponies?
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Inertia Switch
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Inertia Switch
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Inertia Switch
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Tango fo sale on eBay (not built yet)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Correction, that should be:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4592971001
At 12:32 AM 11/30/2005, you wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=459297100
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"This car is not manufactured yet. I will custom make this car to your needs."
I can only assume it's commutercars's auction..
Be interesting to see what it goes for!
On 11/30/05, Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So who is the guy selling it?
> What is his/her relationship with commutercars?
>
> Mark
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 30 November 2005 5:25 PM
> > To: EV Discussion List
> > Subject: Tango fo sale on eBay (not built yet)
> >
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=
> > 4594446567
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 29, 2005, at 9:25 PM, Stefan Peters wrote:
I asked an EMT-turned-Firefighter relative about this, and his
first hand knowledge is that inertia cutoff switches can make a
difference, but rarely (it's a fire safety issue with gasoline
flow). His (rather morbid) opinion is that given the severity of
the accident required to do this, your car and/or you are most
likely dead at that point.
Does it have anything to do with where the impact is in relationship
to the switch? Eve's FCO was right next to the fuel tank filler.
Would the car's crumple zones absorb enough force from a front end
collision and not trigger the switch? If so, and in the case of fuel
lines that run the whole length of the car, I would think an FCO
switch on both ends of the car would provide a more reliable cut-off.
I was kind of toying with the idea of using the inertia switch to
trigger the main ignition relay. Push the big red button (reset) and
the car is drive-able. When you are done driving you a quick whack
to the dash and the car shuts off! They probably aren't made for
frequent cycles...
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Andre , I had though about making something like what you have below
when the truck was at 150v , a 30 v motor that could pass 75amps , that
would be about a 3 hp . and the gen would give me another 25 amps at 120 v .
Of course this would whip the Gen On a Wheel foke into a frenzy , it would
be a hard and thankless job trying to convince them that energy was not
coming out of nowhere. If the motor and gen didn't need to be so big I might
do it , cus in some strange way I am kind of warming up to these folks ,
They are a step above the norm , they are thinking about something . There
have been so many things with the electric mower that mirror my electric car
experience . I didn't think it would work for years , I had lots of reasons
when people would say " why don't you convert your mower " . Like many
people who depend on the gas car to get to work , and feel that they can't
take any chance of not making it , I felt that way about the mower. Like
many people who feel that there life is already to complicated and just
don't want anything more to have to do , like plugging in a cord all the
time . If things hadn't fallen into place so easy I would not have even
tried , I would have missed out on another ev grin and work would have just
gone on like usual. Do most of the people who converted the cars fell this
way? Is your drive to work still interesting , and fun? Even after many
years do others still get that magic feeling while driving down the road in
there EV ? Ok back to the dump charger , Even though I like your idea of
the alternator and I could some how drive it form the mower motor I'm
thinking more along the lines of a old golf cart contactor controller with
resistor wire used for speed control , I have all this from scrapping a old
golf cart. I'll set up a simple voltage detector that will open a contactor
when the voltage gets to X .
Steve Clunn
www.grassrootsev.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: 40 golfers in my work truck
Cheap and dirty controller for dump charging.
With the alternator field current at zero close the switch, after the
motor and alternator are up to speed only a small current will be flowing.
Now turn up the field current on the alternator this loads the motor, the
current into the pack being charged is the sum of the motor current and
the alternator output.
SWITCH
SOURCE ___
PACK ____* *____ ___________
| _|__|_ |
_|_ |PERM. | |
| + | |MAGNET| |
| | |MOTOR | |
|___| |______| |
_|_ || |
| + | __||__ |
| | | ALT. | |
|___| |______| |
_|_ | |___________|
| + | | |
| | | |
|___| | |
_|_ | _|_
| + | | | + | PACK BEING
| | | | | CHARGED
|___| | |___|
_|_ | _|_
| + | | | + |
| | | | |
|___| | |___|
_|_ | _|_
| + | | | + |
| | | | |
|___| | |___|
_|_ | _|_
| + | | | + |
| | | | |
|___| | |___|
_|_ | _|_
| + | | | + |
| | | | |
|___| | |___|
|___________|______________|
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
At 09:44 AM 11/29/2005, you wrote:
Before hearing the stories about excides golf cart batteries , I bought 40
of them for my work truck. With the electric mower using 1500 kwh ( about
10 ah for each /yard form the truck's 150v pack) the mower being charged
form my work truck , the 25 bats where not up to par . The lawn bis has
slowed down , but I'm still doing 5 a day , so the mower can easy use 1/2
the packs ah. I have some other reasons for packing those golfers in
there. My mower has 8 orbitals and I'd like to be able to dump charge to
get a fast 10 min charge , for places where I have a few yards together
like the bad @ss 4 I wrote about before. Got them in and all in all the
truck doesn't feel that bad . I can't really tell how much of a difference
the weight makes as I've dropped my voltage for 150 to 120 so its going to
use more amps because of this also . Now I'm running 2 120 strings . I
haven't yet tried a dump charge , but I think the 120v truck into the 96 v
mower is about right . I'll have some kind of resistance on the first try
. Any comments on this please let me know :-) . I don't think I'll kill
the golfers with the lawn mower :-) but with 40 of them swinging at my
mower their won't be much of a voltage drop as the charge so I'll have to
watch this . The last 3 weeks have been a lot of fun , Yes I'm enjoying my
job like never before , Still after 3 week , but then I'm still enjoying
driving my electric truck after 10 years . One thing that has surprised me
is that I really don't need a long run time on the mower , just a fast
recharge time . Most of the time the mower is charged back up by the time
I pull up to the next yard.
a few days ago I had a day where I didn't get to plug in , had charged the
mower batteries up before the last yard which used 15 ah or about 1/2 the
mower pack . The truck was low and on the way home and the voltage started
to fall fast . I have a dryer outlet on the mower in which I plug my
electric edger in . So I plugged the truck charger pfc 30 into the mower
and started pumping 10 amp into the truck , and made it home .
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found keeping a aux battery manually charged to be a pain, and of
course there is the loss of headlight brightness. The alternator idea
suffers from a similar loss of brightness at a stop but not as bad.
I don't know if it is cost effective but I have wanted to try the type
of race car battery with an extra cell in it, 16V I saw them at summit I
think. They sell an alternator for them for like 275 but I was thinking
of modifying a stock alternator by biasing the regulator up with a zener
or finding a 16V regulator from transpo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chuck , I haven't gotten around to putting my place on the charging list
, and after seeing Charles Whalen
post about his charging station which sounded more like a vacation than a
out let , I feel guilty not having something set up , so How do we register
?
Steve Clunn
Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: Clinton Library EV Charge station
I sent an email to the Clinton Library a few weeks ago, asking
whether we might include their site on evchargernews.com, and
what the specifics of the site were. I got no reply. I believe
I found mention of the EV charging parking spaces in the SF
Chronicle newspaper.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:49 AM
Subject: Clinton Library EV Charge station
Does anyone know the specifics on it? Just regular outlets or
special
connector or what?
http://www.clintonfoundation.org/102705-nr-pc-gn-env-clinton-center-offers-guided-green-tours-of-its-environmental-features.htm
http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/
I think charging stations should say if they are on their own
breaker
or not and what size the breaker is.
Example:
"Is this outlet on it's own breaker or are all four of these
outlets
on the same breaker? Is this a 15 or 20 amp breaker? Well
what size
is it?"
I guess they never considered people having adjustable
chargers?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My cousin used to have a 1988 Ford Tempo. This particular car had very worn out
shocks. He used to sit in the (very quiet)road out in front of the house and
pulse the brakes, which would make the car start to bounce up and down like a
"low rider" he was getting some pretty good air at times, like 2-3 feet under
the rear tires. (it's a hicks in the sticks kind of thing)
Well to make a long story short....the engine quit. After a while of
troubleshooting, we eventually discovered that the inertia switch had tripped.
Definately not 30g's (or even close) to trip it.
Of course ONE event is not indicative of the entire industries equipment...
Stay Charged!!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jerry halstead
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Inertia Switch
On Nov 29, 2005, at 9:25 PM, Stefan Peters wrote:
> I asked an EMT-turned-Firefighter relative about this, and his first
> hand knowledge is that inertia cutoff switches can make a difference,
> but rarely (it's a fire safety issue with gasoline flow). His (rather
> morbid) opinion is that given the severity of the accident required to
> do this, your car and/or you are most likely dead at that point.
Does it have anything to do with where the impact is in relationship
to the switch? Eve's FCO was right next to the fuel tank filler.
Would the car's crumple zones absorb enough force from a front end collision
and not trigger the switch? If so, and in the case of fuel lines that run
the whole length of the car, I would think an FCO switch on both ends of the
car would provide a more reliable cut-off.
I was kind of toying with the idea of using the inertia switch to trigger
the main ignition relay. Push the big red button (reset) and the car is
drive-able. When you are done driving you a quick whack to the dash and the
car shuts off! They probably aren't made for frequent cycles...
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been quietly following this because I happen to be investigateing
crash testing. passenger automotive belts suck, compared to what they
use in race cars and such. The highly compromised diagonal belt twists
the torso and usually causes the drivers head to twist 90 degrees before
being hit by the airbag and launched thru the drivers side window. That
is why it is important to sit 10"-12" min from american airbags(200mph
deployment), to be over 5"4" and to tilt the steering wheel down so that
it faces your chest, not your face. ( safety is never off topic) in a
few more years, regulations will force american automakers to use "smart
airbags" to help in this area, some already comply.
Inertia switch, I really like the idea of the inertia switch connected
to the 12V control but how about this, a 12Volt door solenoid that pulls
the main breaker or a weight on a pivot on the main breaker so the "as
close to battery as possible" shutoff can be achieved.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The falcon tranny is very interesting
it has 2 levers and an internal hydraulic clutch(this is from a '89
hondamatic tranny originally)
1 lever selects from low/reverse to high, which is a shaft coupler
so nothing but the in and out shaft spin in hi gear.
the second lever shifts from low to reverse
the clutch does nothing one in high
The guy at falco told me this was built to fulfill the regulations for
IMCA that state a car must start under it's own power and must have a
functioning reverse. Note, reverse is as light as possible, sometimes
plastic and may not hold up under daily use.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would assume the opposite....that this is one of those lowlife ebay scammers.
You pay up and get nothing but delay's.
Save your money and time and send a deposit straight to the Woodbury's if you
want one.
Stay Charged!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:21 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Tango fo sale on eBay (not built yet)
"This car is not manufactured yet. I will custom make this car to your
needs."
I can only assume it's commutercars's auction..
Be interesting to see what it goes for!
On 11/30/05, Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So who is the guy selling it?
> What is his/her relationship with commutercars?
>
> Mark
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
You can increase the voltage up to 16 volts by replacing the built in regulator
with one that you can adjust. My Delco 145 amp alternator can be adjusted by
just turning a push in plug that has a output of 13.5, 14, 14.5 and 15 volts at
load.
I have it at 15.5 volts no load which goes to 15 volts at about 20 amp load.
With all 12 volt systems on which is could be over 60 amps, it only pulls down
to about 14 volts.
If I come to a brief stop, the voltage will drop to about 12.1 volt at 20 amps.
Any stops longer than that, than I turn on my idle control which keeps my
motor running at about 500 RPM. Using a 3 to 1 ratio pulley drive, this keeps
the alternator above 1100 RPM which is need to keep it excited.
This idle RPM keeps my power steering, power brakes, vacuum pump, air condition
pump, air condition evaporator cooling fan, ventilation fans, motor cooling
fan, controller cooling fan, controller cooling pump, lighting systems, and
keeps over 60 indicators going.
I also used a deep cycle 12V battery with a 135 AH rating. When I was running
without a alternator, I could run four days without head lights before I have
to charge it. The on-board charger had a built in 12 volt charger circuit.
I now have a PFC-50 for the main battery pack and a small smart charger for the
12 volt battery that comes off the same AC input.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shanab<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: HV DC-DC
I found keeping a aux battery manually charged to be a pain, and of
course there is the loss of headlight brightness. The alternator idea
suffers from a similar loss of brightness at a stop but not as bad.
I don't know if it is cost effective but I have wanted to try the type
of race car battery with an extra cell in it, 16V I saw them at summit I
think. They sell an alternator for them for like 275 but I was thinking
of modifying a stock alternator by biasing the regulator up with a zener
or finding a 16V regulator from transpo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm going to put non-reversable temperature-indicator labels on the terminals
of my traction pack. I've used this sort of label on equipment to indicate
when it is getting overly-hot, even when it isn't hot at the moment.
See McMaster.com Part Number 9246T15
The question is: How hot will a _properly_ connected battery terminal get, at
say 250 Amps. Clearly one that is badly connected can get to the melting point
of lead.
I'm _guessing_ that 170 degrees F might be a reasonable number, but if anyone
on the list can say something more certain, I would appreciate it.
Thanks!
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Freidberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: Kaboom! (was NAPA Floddies)
>
> How bad can the Kaboom! get? Like a bomb that blows part with force, or
more like a case rupture but that basically remains in one piece?
>
> Also, if hydrogen builds up in a battery box and ignites, is it more like
a fireball, or destructively explosive?
>
> Have such incidents happened to EVers in the past 10-20 years?
>
>
> Mark Freidberg
>
> Hi Mark;, an' All;
Oh, the KABOOM can get pretty bad! A WHAM! One sylabable sorta
thing<g>!A "Don't try This at Home" type sound. The volume of it is directly
related to how much Hydrogen is there, I guess. Nicads blow up as well as
Led Acids, I wiped out a 5 pak, (6volts) in one shot! By getting sparks
across, unplug the charger FIRST, so that can't happen!I'm lucky as the
debris missed me directly, but I still find schrapnal plastic bits and
pieces around the shop, months later!Wearing goggles or glasses would be the
first step toward safety. I have had many battery blowouts in the CAR.. A
WHOOMP !! thing, acid and plastic all over the place! That was from internal
openings in the battery, like internal broken straps. After charging is
usually best time, lottsa hydrogen inside, a little spark, all it takes!
THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF EV OWNERSHIP! SO LISTEN UP!!! HANDLE
BATTERIES VERY CAREFULLY ESPECIALLY FRESHLY CHARGED ONES! NO SPARKS! Sorry
for shouting, but I meant to! Like gas, you don't let sparks or open flame
around gas, but you knew that, right? Part of growing up and living a long
life in America?Canada, or Somewhere Else..
Only good thing? If you can call it, I have a nice Nicd Cell assembly to
look at. It is interesting how CLEAN they are. No porrage of glop in the
bilge, shedding of active material, dripping acid! Nicad carcuses wash clean
under the tap, for your viewing pleasure. Maybe that's why they last so
long. They don't rot away. I have been told that the juice, electolyete?
Wears out, NOT the battery structure. Correct me if I'm wrong, guyz, A
Rebuild consists of a good flushing out of the cell, then new , fresh,
whatever they use, forgotten the chemical they use (Til I hit SEND) Don't
hafta do that with the BB600's, but the other stuff I got, thast blow up so
nice? Getting a test station set up down cellar. So ya mix up a brew of new
electrolyte and reapply? Anybody done this?
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:58:46 -0800, "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >I sent an email to the Clinton Library a few weeks ago, asking
> >whether we might include their site on evchargernews.com, and
> >what the specifics of the site were. I got no reply. I believe
> >I found mention of the EV charging parking spaces in the SF
> >Chronicle newspaper.
>
> Are you surprised? That "charging station" characterizes the entire
> administration - empty vacuous gestures designed to make some
> constituency feel good.
>
> That outlet wasn't put there to actually charge EVs. It was put there
> to garner press and discussion, something it has done admirably. Who
> knows? I might not even be hooked to power.
>
> IMO, of course.
OK, I can do this. I can respond dispassionately to John's obvious
flame-bait. :-)
[deep breath]
Many municipalities have adopted "green building" programs to encourage
pro-environmental building practices. They include things like high
insulation ratings, high-efficiency windows, solar panels, etc. And
yes, EV charging stations. Makes a lot of sense if you think about it.
(Preferably before you make purely speculative political comments
intended specifically to inflame.)
Are many people likely to use those EV charging stations? Of course
not. There aren't enough (any?) EVers in the area. Do they work?
They'd better, just like the power and water had better work. The
building was presumably inspected, in part to verify compliance with the
green building guidelines.
Is it wasted effort? Of course not. An Avcon power pack costs what,
$350? Running power to it, mounting it, etc. in the context of new
construction brings the total to what, $1000? Peanuts. Just having it
there for people to see, and maybe get them to consider electric-powered
transportation as a viable alternative is an incredible deal in
marketing terms.
I remember reading that some buildings in the Washington DC area were
installing EV charging to earn credits. There are financial incentives
involved, so installing a working EV charging station is a no-brainer.
There probably aren't any EV drivers in the DC area aside from EVADC
members. But I'll bet that changes as EVADC members are seen charging
at public stations.
Chris
P.S. Maybe I shouldn't give John such a hard time about comments like
his above. I know Clinton in particular really gets his knickers
twisted. As near as I can tell, he once went so far as to openly
advocate and encourage the assassination of Clinton while he was
president. Does that read like an outrageous, libelous statement? I
would think so too, but I'm not the one who made it. John did, right
here on this list (quoted from
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/messages/22707 ):
"For the record, the visit was from the fibbies and not the SS. The main
occasion was my announcement of the formation of the Presidential
Assasan
Legal Defense Fund upon Klinton's first election. A simple attempt at
intimidation that didn't work. A fibbie intimidation attempt puts me in
some
pretty highly regarded company. I still deeply regret not having cause
to
activate the fund."
Some have said that John's contributions have value, and I would have to
agree. For me, the value (even concerning purely technical topics)
becomes somewhat questionable when a seemingly reliable source is
capable of viewpoints that are so far "out there". Not making any
recommendations here, just showing the other side of the picture.
Always consider the source.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike;
----- Original Message -----
From: "M Bianchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:57 AM
Subject: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
> I'm going to put non-reversable temperature-indicator labels on the
terminals
> of my traction pack. I've used this sort of label on equipment to
indicate
> when it is getting overly-hot, even when it isn't hot at the moment.
> See McMaster.com Part Number 9246T15
> At Amtrak we used thing called a "Tempil" stick, same principle, guess a
civilian could buy one outside of the RR? They would melt, like a creyon, if
the journal box was too hot. For the mechanicall clueless, for if you have a
hotbox, overheated wheel bearing, you KNOW it! Too hot to touch, smoke or
worse that " Hot Metal" smell, like too deep cuts on a lathe, smoking
cutting , blue chips. Keep going and you're on Fox Snooze" Train
Wreck"at........!!
> The question is: How hot will a _properly_ connected battery terminal
get, at
> say 250 Amps. Clearly one that is badly connected can get to the melting
point
> of lead.
> At 250 amps, Mike! It should be STONE COLD! Or maybe pleasently warm, I
don't EVen like to say that, as yur loosing power if there is ANY heat
there. Of course your miliage may vary, I run automotive posts with good
quality terminals, soldered cables. So no problem. OH Ho! I hear the
muttering of the Crimping Crowd, not wanting to ignite a flame war, but
soldering the 2 ouight welding cable has worked fine for me for years. I
EVen hack off the bastarrdized battery "Posts" that come with T 145's and
cast my own, gets old after 20 batteries, but I don't wanna rewire my car
EVERY @#$%^ time I change batteries!
The Force cables look to me, Just barely enough, after pulling stone
dead batteries out of one. THEY may get warm @ 250 amps, but you won't
/can't pull 250 amps for long, yul be walking home!That's what they are
betting [EMAIL PROTECTED] amps starting up or climbing Pikes Peek? Not a
longish thing, anyhow?144 volt car?
> I'm _guessing_ that 170 degrees F might be a reasonable number, but if
anyone
> on the list can say something more certain, I would appreciate it.
Still pretty Hot! I wouldn't wanna take a shower in 170 degree water!
Bettya recabling your ride would give you more of the power ya paid for if
yur running these temps?!Yur loosing too much Volts!
My two degrees worth.
Bob
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Mike Bianchi
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message ----- Snipabit!
Hi All:
> >> I think charging stations should say if they are on their own
> > breaker
> >> or not and what size the breaker is.
> >> Right on! As we hafta come up with a protocall on this stuff, as it
looks like we are going to be DOING it. The damn circuit breaker MUST be on
the outside box! Of what use is a " Charging Station" if the damn breaker is
in some subtrainian substation , non accessable to ANYONE, for a simple
reset?How mant times you plugitin and the outlet is DEAD!
> >> Example:
> >>
> >> "Is this outlet on it's own breaker or are all four of these
> > outlets
> >> on the same breaker? Is this a 15 or 20 amp breaker? Well
> > what size
> >> is it?"
> >> Bettya the whole outlet is on one whimpy 15 amp breaker? They should
SAY how much amps are on tap, and how many in general, like if TWO,
Horrors! EV's should show up? Maybe this happens in CA? CT, not often, I can
remember one happy Golden EVent when Jack Gretta in his MG was at NAPA in
Clinton and I drove up in the Rabbit! TWO EV;'s operating in one small
coastal CT town! Hasn't happened since. Maybe SOMEDAY, again, in CT?
> >> I guess they never considered people having adjustable
> > chargers?
> >>Sigh! The Folks were full of good intentions, but needed a 5 minute
session with an EVer, as to WHAT is needed.While they are at the planning
stage ,a 240 volt plug, to, a NEMA 4 holer.50 amps the New Standard Range
plug?Then you could use your pretty green PFC at full volume! But I'll be
glad to see ANY plugs!
Seeya
Bob
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mine was more like a blammmm. The fiberglass reinforce battery boxes held, but
it hinge the cover up. It happen the minute I turn off the battery charger.
Since then, I pressurize the charger compartment with outside clean air and
install a explosive proof exhaust air system that takes warm air from inside
the building and exhaust it to the outside using acid proof air ducts made out
of flexible PVC if I'm charging inside a building.
When I turn off the charging, I first turn the current down to 0 amps and leave
the exhaust fans running for about 30 minutes to purge the battery boxes,
before I turn off the charger.
Before I turn on the charger, I turn on the battery box exhaust fan to purge
any fumes that may be there for about a minute and than turn on the charger.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Rice<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: Kaboom! (was NAPA Floddies)Explosive Comments
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Freidberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: Kaboom! (was NAPA Floddies)
>
> How bad can the Kaboom! get? Like a bomb that blows part with force, or
more like a case rupture but that basically remains in one piece?
>
> Also, if hydrogen builds up in a battery box and ignites, is it more like
a fireball, or destructively explosive?
>
> Have such incidents happened to EVers in the past 10-20 years?
>
>
> Mark Freidberg
>
> Hi Mark;, an' All;
Oh, the KABOOM can get pretty bad! A WHAM! One sylabable sorta
thing<g>!A "Don't try This at Home" type sound. The volume of it is directly
related to how much Hydrogen is there, I guess. Nicads blow up as well as
Led Acids, I wiped out a 5 pak, (6volts) in one shot! By getting sparks
across, unplug the charger FIRST, so that can't happen!I'm lucky as the
debris missed me directly, but I still find schrapnal plastic bits and
pieces around the shop, months later!Wearing goggles or glasses would be the
first step toward safety. I have had many battery blowouts in the CAR.. A
WHOOMP !! thing, acid and plastic all over the place! That was from internal
openings in the battery, like internal broken straps. After charging is
usually best time, lottsa hydrogen inside, a little spark, all it takes!
THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF EV OWNERSHIP! SO LISTEN UP!!! HANDLE
BATTERIES VERY CAREFULLY ESPECIALLY FRESHLY CHARGED ONES! NO SPARKS! Sorry
for shouting, but I meant to! Like gas, you don't let sparks or open flame
around gas, but you knew that, right? Part of growing up and living a long
life in America?Canada, or Somewhere Else..
Only good thing? If you can call it, I have a nice Nicd Cell assembly to
look at. It is interesting how CLEAN they are. No porrage of glop in the
bilge, shedding of active material, dripping acid! Nicad carcuses wash clean
under the tap, for your viewing pleasure. Maybe that's why they last so
long. They don't rot away. I have been told that the juice, electolyete?
Wears out, NOT the battery structure. Correct me if I'm wrong, guyz, A
Rebuild consists of a good flushing out of the cell, then new , fresh,
whatever they use, forgotten the chemical they use (Til I hit SEND) Don't
hafta do that with the BB600's, but the other stuff I got, thast blow up so
nice? Getting a test station set up down cellar. So ya mix up a brew of new
electrolyte and reapply? Anybody done this?
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dave;
Long time, no see! Wanna come to thev next meeting in Worcester, at a
nice restaurant there, the X mas bash. Get SOMETHING for yur EAA menbership,
bring wife an' kids, they hafta eat, too!
Jet Blue has all these great deals if you follow them. Hard to
resist!Hell, got one going for 59 to Palm Beach, just AFTER I booked!
South of France? Sounds like fun? Surprise Phillipe our French Guy on
the List<g>! Out of country? Bit pricy, for now.
Seeya in DEC 10?
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Fwd: Battery Beach Burnout Races!?
> Wow Bob, I'm jealous. Now that you're retired you're a real EVworld
traveler. Isn't there a big
> battery convention in the South of France or some such sunny location?
>
> I'm counting down the days till I can retire and join you. Let's see, my
youngest daughter will be
> out of college in about 10 years, about the same time my mortgage will be
paid off. Hopefully I'll
> have my EV going before then.
>
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Battery Beach Burnout Races!?
> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:44:13 -0500
> >
> > Hi All;
> >
> > Well, My Jet Blue tix are ready, to Jet away from cold an' snow for a
few daze. Anybody else
> > goin"? Any of you FLA guyz know the area? Do I REALLY hafta pay over 100
bux a nite for
> > lodgings?I'm just guessing that the " Strip" there, if there IS one
there, would be cheepie Ma
> > an' Pa places, along the way.Where is EVerybody else staying?
> >
> > Maybe a bit early for now, but I thought I'd bring it up.
> >
> > Seeya There!
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
Back in 1976, when I pick up my first EV, call the TRANSFORMER I, which had all
welded battery links, the maximum battery temperature was set at 125 F. At 125
F. it would turn off the charger and/or controller.
Today, I set this temperature with my Link-10 Emeter, which of course is taking
off one battery which is the most positive one.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: M Bianchi<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:57 AM
Subject: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
I'm going to put non-reversable temperature-indicator labels on the terminals
of my traction pack. I've used this sort of label on equipment to indicate
when it is getting overly-hot, even when it isn't hot at the moment.
See McMaster.com Part Number 9246T15
The question is: How hot will a _properly_ connected battery terminal get, at
say 250 Amps. Clearly one that is badly connected can get to the melting
point
of lead.
I'm _guessing_ that 170 degrees F might be a reasonable number, but if anyone
on the list can say something more certain, I would appreciate it.
Thanks!
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's hard to tell exactly what he did from the clip. It looks like he's
added a Lemco permanent magnet motor to the drivetrain and a
turbocharger to the engine. I don't see his batteries anywhere.
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/29/05 10:24:08 PM >>>
Has anyone got any comments on the video here: http://www.21ponies.com/
?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After 27 years in the fire service, I have to disagree with your friend.
30Gs is very survivable. We routinely see people walk away from
crashes that destroyed cars and deployed airbags with NO injuries at
all. Crash helmets are designed to reduce the deceleration of the brain
to 300Gs maximum, WAY above the 30Gs necessary to activate a cutoff
switch. Many years ago a test subject (I can't remember his name)
survived a 600G deceleration in a rocket sled with retinal detachment as
his only injury.
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/29/05 6:25:28 PM >>>
I think not everyone here is actually aware of the forces generated in
an accident even at moderate speeds.
I asked an EMT-turned-Firefighter relative about this, and his first
hand knowledge is that inertia cutoff switches can make a difference,
but rarely (it's a fire safety issue with gasoline flow). His (rather
morbid) opinion is that given the severity of the accident required to
do this, your car and/or you are most likely dead at that point. So
either your car isn't going anywhere now matter what power is flowing,
or you really don't care at the moment...
He did point out that he would be quite nervous pulling/cutting you out
of an EV which wasn't so equipped to break the current as close to the
battery pack as possible during an accident.
YMMV
> But if you're wearing your seatbelt that shouldn't be an issue and
your foot
> would be on the brake anyway. Mark
> In a crash your foot, leg, entire body may well be jammed under the
dash on top of the accelerator peddle.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My inertia switch is connected in series with my main contactor
activation relay. If I get in an accident that activates the inertia
switch, the main contactor will open, thereby opening the circuit to the
traction battery pack.
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/30/05 6:07:05 AM >>>
I have been quietly following this because I happen to be
investigateing
crash testing. passenger automotive belts suck, compared to what they
use in race cars and such. The highly compromised diagonal belt
twists
the torso and usually causes the drivers head to twist 90 degrees
before
being hit by the airbag and launched thru the drivers side window.
That
is why it is important to sit 10"-12" min from american airbags(200mph
deployment), to be over 5"4" and to tilt the steering wheel down so
that
it faces your chest, not your face. ( safety is never off topic) in a
few more years, regulations will force american automakers to use
"smart
airbags" to help in this area, some already comply.
Inertia switch, I really like the idea of the inertia switch connected
to the 12V control but how about this, a 12Volt door solenoid that
pulls
the main breaker or a weight on a pivot on the main breaker so the "as
close to battery as possible" shutoff can be achieved.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now that is smart!
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Maston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Inertia Switch
My inertia switch is connected in series with my main contactor
activation relay. If I get in an accident that activates the inertia
switch, the main contactor will open, thereby opening the circuit to the
traction battery pack.
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/30/05 6:07:05 AM >>>
I have been quietly following this because I happen to be
investigateing
crash testing. passenger automotive belts suck, compared to what they
use in race cars and such. The highly compromised diagonal belt
twists
the torso and usually causes the drivers head to twist 90 degrees
before
being hit by the airbag and launched thru the drivers side window.
That
is why it is important to sit 10"-12" min from american airbags(200mph
deployment), to be over 5"4" and to tilt the steering wheel down so
that
it faces your chest, not your face. ( safety is never off topic) in a
few more years, regulations will force american automakers to use
"smart
airbags" to help in this area, some already comply.
Inertia switch, I really like the idea of the inertia switch connected
to the 12V control but how about this, a 12Volt door solenoid that
pulls
the main breaker or a weight on a pivot on the main breaker so the "as
close to battery as possible" shutoff can be achieved.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The reserve price has to be more than 20k. I wonder who did this auction.
Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:25 PM
Subject: Tango fo sale on eBay (not built yet)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4594446567
--- End Message ---
