EV Digest 4953
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Inertia Switch
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Wiring Diagram
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Stalled motors (was Re: Inertia Switch)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Battery monitoring question
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Florida public charging stations (was: Clinton Library EV Charge station)
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Step van in MO on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: House Power
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: One more 2-speed (for a motorcycle)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Walmart Heater Cooks
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Stalled motors (was Re: Inertia Switch)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Tango fo sale on eBay (not built yet)
by Joel Shellman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Walmart Heater Cooks
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Fourth Generation Pot
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) RE: Battery monitoring question
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Battery monitoring question
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Walmart Heater Cooks
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Short range vehicles and speed records
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Battery monitoring question
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Inertia Switch
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Walmart Heater Cooks
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Battery monitoring question
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: How Hot Does a Terminal Get? Not Very!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) A Dumb Old Laptop Can Be Pretty Slick Tool
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Fourth Generation Pot
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Fourth Generation Pot
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: A Dumb Old Laptop Can Be Pretty Slick Tool
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Walmart Heater Cooks
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 30, 2005, at 3:57 PM, James Massey wrote:
Smart? Well, I thought that that was merely sensible. Along with
main contactors (yes, plural, that's two contactors, one in B+, one
in B-, set to come off simultaneously). Actually I haven't yet
worked out the wiring details, B- contactor to come on with
ignition, B+ contactor to come on under control from the Zilla,
once B+ contactor is energised the B- contactor control changes
over to common with the B+ contactor so both go off together.
Here's, roughly, how I had the first EV's inertia switch wired
(schematic is a work in progress):
http://www.evconvert.com/eve/ev-schematic
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry, this is just a suggestion about your wiring diagram. On my car I
wired the + side contactor to be activated by the potbox microswitch.
That way the circuit is open until I'm ready to drive.
Blue skies,
Patrick
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/30/05 1:24:36 PM >>>
On Nov 30, 2005, at 3:57 PM, James Massey wrote:
>
> Smart? Well, I thought that that was merely sensible. Along with
> main contactors (yes, plural, that's two contactors, one in B+, one
> in B-, set to come off simultaneously). Actually I haven't yet
> worked out the wiring details, B- contactor to come on with
> ignition, B+ contactor to come on under control from the Zilla,
> once B+ contactor is energised the B- contactor control changes
> over to common with the B+ contactor so both go off together.
Here's, roughly, how I had the first EV's inertia switch wired
(schematic is a work in progress):
http://www.evconvert.com/eve/ev-schematic
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
This is not an AC vs. DC thing. Instead, it depends on how the motor is cooled
and how good the controller is.
Sort of.
- A brushed motor at stall overheats the commutator bars first.
- An induction motor at stall overheats the rotor first.
True, but brushes in this mode are *far* more sensitive to even
slight abuse - they will burn in a second sitting on the same
comm bar.
It will take some effort to burn the rotor of stalled AC induction
motor. So in theory you're right, it's degree of tolerable abuse
that distinguishes DC and AC in this case.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
...
> Done right, all batteries reach "dead" at the same time.
:-) this reminds me of saying - if one doesn't smoke or drink,
he will die healthy...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
M Bianchi wrote:
> I'm going to put non-reversable temperature-indicator labels on the
> terminals of my traction pack... How hot will a _properly_ connected
> battery terminal get, at say 250 Amps. I'm _guessing_ that 170 degrees
> F might be a reasonable number, but if anyone on the list can say
> something more certain, I would appreciate it.
Bob Rice riffed on the topic.
Lee Hart wrote:
> I'd say the "overtemperature" limit should be between 140 deg.F and 200 deg.F.
> The low end is very safe, but might falsely trip on a hot day after a long
> high-current run. The upper end is just short of the point where you are
> going to have to walk home!
I'm not planning on putting any sort of temperature cut-off switch, which you
answer suggests. I'm just looking for a means to detect the "hot spot".
John De Armond wrote:
> I'm not sure I'd go as high as 200 deg. I'd be looking at the
> softening/creep temperature of the battery case plastic. The first
> damage would be the terminal loosening in the case and allowing acid
> to creep out. Further plastic creep could let an internal connection
> break or plate move about.
>
> I have 120 deg "tattletails" on a few of my battery terminals. I've
> never had one trigger, even at the 400+ amps my Citi pulls from the
> battery on hills.
This is exactly what I have in mind! But see below.
> My personal limit is "comfortably warm". If I feel a terminal and
> find it more than slightly warm then I start looking for the reason.
I had non-reversable temperature-indicator labels on the battery blocks and
major electronics boxes in the Solectria Force for 10 years. They ALL
registered 125 degrees F, but none of them measured 150. I take 125 to be the
temperature under the hood, in the trunk and in the battery boxes on hot summer
days in the sun. The labels on the batteries were on the plastic, but it
occurred to me that the most likely failure would be a loose terminal
connection, hence putting labels on the terminals.
So, I'm guessing a 5-spot label (140 - 180 degF), 0.5 inch diameter, would be
a good choice.
Thanks all!
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
It's simple and easy to register your public charging station. Just send an
email with the details to Tom Dowling at:
tom at twdowling dot com
I will forward to you offline a copy of the email that I had sent to Tom
giving him the details of my listing
(www.evchargernews.com/regions/33445_1.htm) so that you can see the types of
things you should include.
Tom will then put your station up on EVChargerNews national listing of
public charging stations (www.evchargernews.com/#regions). That would be
great if you do that as that would double the number of public charging
stations in the state of Florida (from one to two!). ... Which reminds me
that I need to check Tom about those GM Gen 2+ inductive chargers he was
bidding on. He was going to try to get me a couple at a reasonable price so
that I can try to expand our South Florida inductive charging network.
Speaking of which, I am looking for any person or business, residence or
commercial establishment, in the Miami area who would be willing to host an
inductive charger as a public charging site. The Miami Beach/South Beach
area would be my preference, but failing that, I'm open to other suggestions
in the Miami area. I will provide the charger myself free of charge; it
would be either a TAL or a GM Gen 2+. And I could probably also make an
arrangement to pay for some or all of the cost of having an electrician
install a new dedicated 240V circuit, which must have a 40 Amp breaker and
no GFCI (since the TAL and GM Gen 2+ have their own internal GFCI). Let me
know if any of you have any ideas, leads, or contacts for potential charger
hosting sites in the Miami area, including possibly any public officials who
might be willing to facilitate that.
BTW, with regard to my own public charging station here in Delray Beach, the
guys at Vectrix (www.vectrixusa.com) have told me that they should be able
to get me one of their first electric motorcycles coming off the production
line by sometime late next summer. When I get it, I will make it available,
free of charge, to any EVer to use while charging his EV at my charging
station. There's lots to do here in Delray Beach, somewhat less in Boca
Raton, but Delray has a real nice downtown area (about 5 miles away from my
location), great restaurants, the best beach in South Florida. So that will
open up a lot of possibilities for EVers and expand the horizon by being
able to use my Vectrix e-motorcycle while charging their car.
Steve, I've already got one spare TAL inductive charger (and am looking for
more, as I said), so if you are planning to list your charging station on
EVChargerNews, let me know and I can make arrangements with you to install
the TAL there. I've got a few extra sets of mounting brackets and will do
the mount myself. I guess you'll probably want to have the charging station
at your new facility, right? Or will you do it at home?
Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Clinton Library EV Charge station
Hi Chuck , I haven't gotten around to putting my place on the charging
list , and after seeing Charles Whalen
post about his charging station which sounded more like a vacation than a
out let , I feel guilty not having something set up , so How do we
register ?
Steve Clunn
Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: Clinton Library EV Charge station
I sent an email to the Clinton Library a few weeks ago, asking
whether we might include their site on evchargernews.com, and
what the specifics of the site were. I got no reply. I believe
I found mention of the EV charging parking spaces in the SF
Chronicle newspaper.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:49 AM
Subject: Clinton Library EV Charge station
Does anyone know the specifics on it? Just regular outlets or
special
connector or what?
http://www.clintonfoundation.org/102705-nr-pc-gn-env-clinton-center-offers-guided-green-tours-of-its-environmental-features.htm
http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/
I think charging stations should say if they are on their own
breaker
or not and what size the breaker is.
Example:
"Is this outlet on it's own breaker or are all four of these
outlets
on the same breaker? Is this a 15 or 20 amp breaker? Well
what size
is it?"
I guess they never considered people having adjustable
chargers?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4592971001&fromMakeTrack=true
Ah, the fine old Battronic van. Why pour salt in my wounds? ;-)
I let one of these slip through my fingers for want of a measly coupla hundred
$ while working at a wrecking yard during college. It had been mothballed by
an electrical engineering professor, and was discarded by his estate. To make
matters worse, the van was not eventually crushed, but butchered in an attempt
to repower it with a Chevy 350 and make a badass icecream truck.
I'd love to test-drive a working example. IIRC, they used fixed gearing and
topped out at 35mph, but that little van has a 1000+ lb payload even after
adding the flooded pack. I have some literature on file if the winner would
like a copy.
Cheers,
Jay
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The 12v compressor-based fridges are much more efficient than Peltier
devices, especially those using Danfoss compressors. For a small "dorm
fridge" the current consumption depends on the box temp setting and the
room temp but for a normal room temp you can figure an average power of
20W or so.
The Honda (and others) inverter generators are quite efficient, quiet,
and clean relative to normal generators. However they are expensive
relative to other generators as well.
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That'll be a rare and unusual automatic gearbox, I think ...
Why the sudden interest in 2 speed gearboxes anyway?
-----sharks
I think our friend in Voltageville was surfin the web and came up with
these. A two speed gear box is about right for a well designed EV using
Series motors. Lawrence Rhodes..
On 2005-11-29, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4592984274
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Patrick - for the benefit of us "Ev"rs in the U.K could you post a picture
or a link to which Walmart ceramic heater you used , so we can try and find
it in our discount stores over this side of the pond. Its getting pretty
cold this time of year without a heater in my ev.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/668.html
Tks
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:23 PM
Subject: Walmart Heater Cooks
> After several days on-the-road use, I have to say that the Walmart
> heater is a success. I took 2 Walmart 1500W ceramic heater cores, wired
> them together in parallel, and installed them in place of the original
> heater core in my Jet Electrica. They are connected to traction pack
> voltage (120V) through a contactor that is activated by a 12V relay,
> which is in turn controlled by the heater fan switch. This worked out
> well because the fan switch doesn't supply enough voltage to the relay
> until the switch is at medium speed, assuring airflow through the heater
> cores. Temperature is just controlled by the amount of air flowing
> through the cores, using the fan speed and temperature slide on the
> regular heater control panel. When I first turn the heater on it takes
> about 20 seconds to start blowing hot air. So I have 3000W of
> almost-instant heat at my disposal. Nice and toasty! Total cost for
> the system was about $60.
>
> Blue skies,
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/188 - Release Date:
29/11/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> - A brushed motor at stall overheats the commutator bars first.
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> True, but brushes in this mode are *far* more sensitive to even
> slight abuse - they will burn in a second sitting on the same
> comm bar.
Not at normal currents. If the motor is designed for (say) 100 amps
continuous, then the brushes can certainly stand 100 amps continuous at any
speed, including stall.
The practical limitations are as I mentioned. First, the cooling system needs
to be working; that means you can't depend on an internal fan for cooling at
stall or low speeds -- it obviously isn't working!
Second, if the motor is literally stalled, the commutator bars directly under
the brushes will overheat first. They *can* fail in a minute or less at
normal rated current with zero cooling and zero rotation!
>> - An induction motor at stall overheats the rotor first.
> It will take some effort to burn the rotor of stalled AC induction
> motor. So in theory you're right, it's degree of tolerable abuse
> that distinguishes DC and AC in this case.
Well, I've seen the rotor windings melt right out of an induction motor that
was stalled. If the controller isn't smart enough to cut back the power, you
could do it in just a few minutes. What saves you is that the controller is
smart enough to prevent such abuse.
Most cheap DC motor controllers don't bother to detect a stalled motor. Hmm...
Otmar, what does the Zilla do if asked to pour max amps into a stalled motor?
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 11/30/05, Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why does anything you don't understand have to be a scam? This guy's
> probably decided that he can make some money reselling a Tango. In
> other words, he's acting as a dealer. Another term might be a buyer's
> agent. It sounds like he's trying to get the down payment on the car
> via the auction.
>
> If the buyer uses an escrow agent, I don't see any problems. More
> risk than I'd want to take on - on either side of the transaction -
> but probably not a scam.
Scam or not, it appears to be against ebay's policies:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/pre-sale.html
It could qualify as a pre-sale item, but it's 6 months out, not within
the 30 days required by ebay.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 30, 2005, at 5:42 PM, John Luck Home wrote:
Patrick - for the benefit of us "Ev"rs in the U.K could you post a
picture
or a link to which Walmart ceramic heater you used , so we can try
and find
it in our discount stores over this side of the pond. Its getting
pretty
cold this time of year without a heater in my ev.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/668.html
Hi John,
As chance would have it I visited the local *mart (k this time) and
bought a set of ceramic heaters ($19.95/ea). I'll be doing a full
tear-apart with photos. I'll post a quick url when it's online for
anyone interested.
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am using one, It works but quality is in the homemade category, as soon as
I can figure out how to use the GE Acc pot Ihave that is reversed, Would want
to use that. Anybody know of a simple way to use a pot that is reversed ( 5k
to 0k) ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Automatic "switching out" a battery is very problematic and
> not really worth the effort - if you *know* the trouble is
> approaching and willing to let a cell to die to keep moving
> (or must go and have no choice) it is better to stop and
> put a jumper across bad cell or bypass bad battery if no cell
> access.
That's what I'm talking about... my thought is to use two-per-battery
low cost latching contactors to allow individual battery bypassing. I
noticed some inexpensive latching contacters can carry a lot of current
if they don't have to actually break it. The idea is to watch for
repeated excess voltage sag on a single battery during acceleration,
then latch both contactors for that battery as soon as the amp draw goes
down enough (you lift your foot off the gas to coast).
I know it's not the simplest or most elegant solution to the issue of a
single bad battery effecting a vehicles functionality, but I don't see
EVs being accepted in a widespread way until we automate virtually all
of the "decide this based on this" and "wire this to this", and I'm just
trying to do my part to help... :)
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
- Battery regulation during charging
- Communication with or control of charger
Nice... wouldn't you need one charger per battery to properly regulate the charge,
though? Or would you use a "dumb" version of a current bypass device for each
battery (gets told how much current to bypass). Might you know where I could find a
suitable circuit to try this out?
Hey, how about a simple current limited adjustable power supply for each battery, then have it "micro-manage" the charging of each battery?
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, I don't know if I still have the boxes. I'll check tonight. I
believe they were "Titan" 1500W heaters.
Blue skies,
Patrick
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/30/05 2:42:47 PM >>>
Patrick - for the benefit of us "Ev"rs in the U.K could you post a
picture
or a link to which Walmart ceramic heater you used , so we can try and
find
it in our discount stores over this side of the pond. Its getting
pretty
cold this time of year without a heater in my ev.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/668.html
Tks
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:23 PM
Subject: Walmart Heater Cooks
> After several days on-the-road use, I have to say that the Walmart
> heater is a success. I took 2 Walmart 1500W ceramic heater cores,
wired
> them together in parallel, and installed them in place of the
original
> heater core in my Jet Electrica. They are connected to traction
pack
> voltage (120V) through a contactor that is activated by a 12V relay,
> which is in turn controlled by the heater fan switch. This worked
out
> well because the fan switch doesn't supply enough voltage to the
relay
> until the switch is at medium speed, assuring airflow through the
heater
> cores. Temperature is just controlled by the amount of air flowing
> through the cores, using the fan speed and temperature slide on the
> regular heater control panel. When I first turn the heater on it
takes
> about 20 seconds to start blowing hot air. So I have 3000W of
> almost-instant heat at my disposal. Nice and toasty! Total cost
for
> the system was about $60.
>
> Blue skies,
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/188 - Release Date:
29/11/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In reading the 'press kit' for this January's centennial celebration in
Ormond Beach Florida of the land speed record of 127mph set in January 1906
by a Stanley Steamer, I find this statement interesting regarding races
after 1906:
"The rules for the Ormond Beach races were changed to exclude short distance
steam racers"
Let that be a warning to you "short distance" electric speedsters going
against the gassers in bracket racing. Once you start winning, they'll find
a way to ban you from competing. It happened a century ago shortly after
the birth of automobile drag racing when rules were barely in place. I can
see it now: a requirement that you carry a minimum amount of joules onboard
or else you're DQ'd.
-Myles Twete
Ormond Beach "Birthplace of Speed" centennial site:
http://www.birthplaceofspeed2006.com/
Press kit: http://ormondbeach.org/news/Stanley/PressKit-StanleyBPOS2006.pdf
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> My Balancer measures each battery voltage, and if one is found to be
low, it
charges it with power from the pack as a whole. This has the effect of
*preventing* it from going dead or reversing or otherwise being damaged. Done
right, all batteries reach "dead" at the same time.
Now that is what I would consider a good solution. I'm not actually talking
about the proper way to do battery management (lot's of good stuff already out
there)... I'm asking this question because I am almost done with the
aforementioned device, and am wondering what else to do with it besides the
last one. (which is why I made it) ;)
Basic specs: 40Mhz 8 bit processor, 3.5K RAM, 32K flash, 512 EEPROM, 2 PWM outputs, 8 opto-isolated analog inputs, (1 used for the current shunt, 7 for the 7 battery voltages), 16 digital input/outputs available, buffered I2C bus (currently used for RTC and external EEPROM, can add lots more), 2 RS232 interfaces (1 used for programming/monitoring)... I'm adding a 20x4 VFD programmable character display right now in order to show a "stereo equalizer" type of voltage display for all the batteries simultaneously. I guess I got the wayyy-to-fast processor for this application, because I'm running it right now at only a 4Mhz clock, and it's sitting idle most of the time waiting for timer events/input changes.
...so I thought; with so many cycles laying around to burn I might as well try to do something useful with this bugger.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I can arm the switch and then trip it simply by giving it a rap with
my hand.
Wow... much different then the one I installed on the FI 4 banger for
the local track. Got it from Summit (i believe), will have to look up
the part number. You had to hit that one with a hammer (literally) to
make it go off.
But then again, I guess you can't have your race car shutting down every
time someone wacks into it (must of been made specifically for racing) ;)
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, this is the type of thing you are looking for:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4100060&cat=133026&type=1&dept=4044&path=0%3A4044%3A133032%3A133026#Features+%26+Specifications
You just want the square heating element, which is the darker area in
the center of the picture. I cut my heaters open with a cutoff grinder.
Remove the fan and AC switches (you cannot use the AC switches for your
DC application - they won't handle the amperage). Connect all the same
color terminals together: Black to black and red to red and run the
wires (make sure they're large gauge since you'll be pulling quite a few
amps if you connect 2 elements together) to your power source through a
relay or contactor. I secured my heating elements in the stock vehicle
heater housing with silicone sealer.
Blue skies,
Patrick
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/30/05 2:42:47 PM >>>
Patrick - for the benefit of us "Ev"rs in the U.K could you post a
picture
or a link to which Walmart ceramic heater you used , so we can try and
find
it in our discount stores over this side of the pond. Its getting
pretty
cold this time of year without a heater in my ev.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/668.html
Tks
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:23 PM
Subject: Walmart Heater Cooks
> After several days on-the-road use, I have to say that the Walmart
> heater is a success. I took 2 Walmart 1500W ceramic heater cores,
wired
> them together in parallel, and installed them in place of the
original
> heater core in my Jet Electrica. They are connected to traction
pack
> voltage (120V) through a contactor that is activated by a 12V relay,
> which is in turn controlled by the heater fan switch. This worked
out
> well because the fan switch doesn't supply enough voltage to the
relay
> until the switch is at medium speed, assuring airflow through the
heater
> cores. Temperature is just controlled by the amount of air flowing
> through the cores, using the fan speed and temperature slide on the
> regular heater control panel. When I first turn the heater on it
takes
> about 20 seconds to start blowing hot air. So I have 3000W of
> almost-instant heat at my disposal. Nice and toasty! Total cost
for
> the system was about $60.
>
> Blue skies,
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/188 - Release Date:
29/11/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fun! Is that a part with dual USARTs or did you bit bang one of them?
Danny
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
Basic specs: 40Mhz 8 bit processor, 3.5K RAM, 32K flash, 512 EEPROM, 2
PWM outputs, 8 opto-isolated analog inputs, (1 used for the current
shunt, 7 for the 7 battery voltages), 16 digital input/outputs
available, buffered I2C bus (currently used for RTC and external
EEPROM, can add lots more), 2 RS232 interfaces (1 used for
programming/monitoring)... I'm adding a 20x4 VFD programmable
character display right now in order to show a "stereo equalizer" type
of voltage display for all the batteries simultaneously. I guess I got
the wayyy-to-fast processor for this application, because I'm running
it right now at only a 4Mhz clock, and it's sitting idle most of the
time waiting for timer events/input changes.
...so I thought; with so many cycles laying around to burn I might as
well try to do something useful with this bugger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am connecting my batteries right now and have already
reported a while back about the low impedance of a
>hand-tight< clamp.
Last weekend I made the connection permanent and did the
following:
- file one side of the Flag-post on the battery to shine
- put Noalox on this surface
- bolted down the also cleaned lug with a large flat washer
against the back of the lead post (to minimize compression
force) and a split washer to allow it to 'work'.
I measured the resistance by running 10A through it and
measured 0.2 mV between post and lug.
This means 0.00002 Ohm (20 micro-Ohm)
At 250A this becomes 5mV => 1.25Watt
This should not make the terminal even luke-warm.
I also measured a set of existing cables that had already
been crimped, some had been used with the car before.
Most cables measured around 3mV (0.3 mOhm) but one cable
was way off and registered 18mV (1.8 mOhm)
The difference was that this cable seemed to have cheap
copper (non-tinned) lugs and it possibly was crimped
without cleaning, leading to a lot of surface corrosion
avoiding a good contact.
If I would send 250A through that cable, it would
generate a whopping 450mV drop, resulting in 112.5 Watts
which would likely overheat the terminal pretty soon.
Needless to say, I put that cable aside and will cut the
lugs off and replace with good quality after cleaning the
cable itself as well.
Hope this helps,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: "M Bianchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:57 AM
Subject: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
> I'm going to put non-reversable temperature-indicator labels on the
terminals
> of my traction pack. I've used this sort of label on equipment to
indicate
> when it is getting overly-hot, even when it isn't hot at the moment.
> See McMaster.com Part Number 9246T15
> At Amtrak we used thing called a "Tempil" stick, same principle, guess a
civilian could buy one outside of the RR? They would melt, like a creyon, if
the journal box was too hot. For the mechanicall clueless, for if you have a
hotbox, overheated wheel bearing, you KNOW it! Too hot to touch, smoke or
worse that " Hot Metal" smell, like too deep cuts on a lathe, smoking
cutting , blue chips. Keep going and you're on Fox Snooze" Train
Wreck"at........!!
> The question is: How hot will a _properly_ connected
> battery terminal get, at say 250 Amps.
> Clearly one that is badly connected can get to the melting
> point of lead.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
I have been messing about with this off an on for the last few weeks
and I thought I should mention it. My Civic EV conversion is
equipped with an E-meter with the optional serial port. I had
planned since I built the car in 1999 to try some data logging, but
it never seemed to work. I finally dug out Tim Nolan's excellent
Homepower article, (on line at: http://timnolan.com ) re-read it, and
discovered the problem. I had missed the part about it needing a
null-modem cable and had used a straight cable. Add the right cable
and away it went.
So here is the current setup:
E-meter connected to $5 antique laptop (Toshiba T4900CT P75 24 Mb
running Win98SE). The laptop equipped with with an eBay special
802.11B wireless card with a magnetic antenna. I don't actually
access the laptop in the car, when the car is in the driveway or
garage, it can be accessed on my home network via VNC from my desktop
or my real laptop. Currently the laptop is powered from a 300 Watt
12 Volt to 120 VAC inverter, but as soon as I get the isolator for
the serial port working, it will be switched over to a 12 Volt direct
power adapter. The inverter setup wastes too much power. Data is
being captured and logged using HyperTerminal. Even with the tiny
(720 Mb) hard drive and letting it log once per second, the data
files have not been unreasonably large.
I have only done a couple of cycles with the logging on, but I
already identified a charger issue so the Zivan NG5 will be coming
out and getting reprogrammed. My home-built Fair-Radio based charger
actually proved to be doing a pretty good job, and winds up hitting a
max of 191.5 Volts at .3 Amps. (156 Volts nominal system) Data on
the drive cycles has also been logged, but only shows these batteries
are toast. I should be putting in a new set this week, so hopefully
things should improve.
Basically, I can't see a whole lot of reason to log constantly, but
for diagnostic purposes it sure makes a handy setup. Even counting
shipping I probably only have about $60 in this whole setup (not
counting the E-meter of course). If you are buying a Link 10 /
E-meter do yourself a favor and get the serial port option. It may
just prove handy.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Being skeptical, I wonder how good the pot inside the box is? ie
something from Radio Shack that will wear out soon or one of the high-
end ones (such as Lee has given part numbers for) that will last a long
long time? Any way to see inside?
Ricky Suiter wrote:
I have one. Works fine, thought the lever arm is a little bit flimsy, but I
don't have a Curtis one to compare it to. Just check the calibration of it when
you get it, mine was a bit off.
Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Anyone used the Fourth Generation
Potentiometer?
Ebay #8018190219.
They claim to replace the Curtis PB6.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Personals
Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No way to tell without taking it apart.
Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Being skeptical, I wonder how good the
pot inside the box is? ie
something from Radio Shack that will wear out soon or one of the high-
end ones (such as Lee has given part numbers for) that will last a long
long time? Any way to see inside?
Ricky Suiter wrote:
> I have one. Works fine, thought the lever arm is a little bit flimsy, but I
> don't have a Curtis one to compare it to. Just check the calibration of it
> when you get it, mine was a bit off.
>
> Ken Albright wrote: Anyone used the Fourth Generation Potentiometer?
>
> Ebay #8018190219.
>
> They claim to replace the Curtis PB6.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
>
>
>
>
>
> Later,
> Ricky
> 02 Insight
> 92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
> Glendale, AZ USA
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Personals
> Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
> Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
>
>
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Personals
Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
Lots of someones, actually. Try Yahoo! Personals
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI Mike,
I am interested in your data logging program. Mind sharing it. Or explaining
how to program something to datalog on either a palm pilot or laptop.
Cheers
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Chancey
Sent: 01 December 2005 15:21
To: [email protected]
Subject: A Dumb Old Laptop Can Be Pretty Slick Tool
Hi folks,
I have been messing about with this off an on for the last few weeks
and I thought I should mention it. My Civic EV conversion is
equipped with an E-meter with the optional serial port. I had
planned since I built the car in 1999 to try some data logging, but
it never seemed to work. I finally dug out Tim Nolan's excellent
Homepower article, (on line at: http://timnolan.com ) re-read it, and
discovered the problem. I had missed the part about it needing a
null-modem cable and had used a straight cable. Add the right cable
and away it went.
So here is the current setup:
E-meter connected to $5 antique laptop (Toshiba T4900CT P75 24 Mb
running Win98SE). The laptop equipped with with an eBay special
802.11B wireless card with a magnetic antenna. I don't actually
access the laptop in the car, when the car is in the driveway or
garage, it can be accessed on my home network via VNC from my desktop
or my real laptop. Currently the laptop is powered from a 300 Watt
12 Volt to 120 VAC inverter, but as soon as I get the isolator for
the serial port working, it will be switched over to a 12 Volt direct
power adapter. The inverter setup wastes too much power. Data is
being captured and logged using HyperTerminal. Even with the tiny
(720 Mb) hard drive and letting it log once per second, the data
files have not been unreasonably large.
I have only done a couple of cycles with the logging on, but I
already identified a charger issue so the Zivan NG5 will be coming
out and getting reprogrammed. My home-built Fair-Radio based charger
actually proved to be doing a pretty good job, and winds up hitting a
max of 191.5 Volts at .3 Amps. (156 Volts nominal system) Data on
the drive cycles has also been logged, but only shows these batteries
are toast. I should be putting in a new set this week, so hopefully
things should improve.
Basically, I can't see a whole lot of reason to log constantly, but
for diagnostic purposes it sure makes a handy setup. Even counting
shipping I probably only have about $60 in this whole setup (not
counting the E-meter of course). If you are buying a Link 10 /
E-meter do yourself a favor and get the serial port option. It may
just prove handy.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 30, 2005, at 3:43 PM, jerry halstead wrote:
On Nov 30, 2005, at 5:42 PM, John Luck Home wrote:
Patrick - for the benefit of us "Ev"rs in the U.K could you post a
picture
or a link to which Walmart ceramic heater you used , so we can try
and find
it in our discount stores over this side of the pond. Its getting
pretty
cold this time of year without a heater in my ev.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/668.html
Hi John,
As chance would have it I visited the local *mart (k this time) and
bought a set of ceramic heaters ($19.95/ea). I'll be doing a full
tear-apart with photos. I'll post a quick url when it's online for
anyone interested.
I did this two years ago for a heater I purchased from Home Depot.
Last year the heater wasn't available, but this year it seems to be
back under a different name. The direct URL is horrendously long, so
just go to main site <http://www.homedepot.com/> and search for part
number 164150. If that doesn't work in your country, the description
is "Hampton Bay
Ceramic Heater with Thermostat". It costs US$17.47.
Tear-down pictures are here:
<http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/static/galleries/
CeramicHeater/>
I decided to put it back together and use it as a house heater. For my
EV, I'm going to buy one of the prebuilt heaters from Canadian EV.
It's not on their web site - email them directly and ask. I'm trying
to get a current quote from them now.
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
