EV Digest 4956
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Clinton Library EV Charge station
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Any one have experience shipping wet cells?
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: A Dumb Old Laptop Can Be Pretty Slick Tool
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Any one have experience shipping wet cells?
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Walmart Heater Cooks
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Am I Killing Batteries?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Tango News ...
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV digest 4950
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: PowerPoint presentations
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: PowerPoint presentations
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) KTA Services Website
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Any one have experience shipping wet cells?
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: A Dumb d Latop Can Be Pretty Slick Tool
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Was there ever a definitive answer on the temperature dot question?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Am I Killing Batteries?
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Any one have experience shipping wet cells?
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Was there ever a definitive answer on the temperature dot question?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Wiring Diagram
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Am I Killing Batteries?
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Ceramic Heaters-Max voltage
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Walmart Heater Cooks
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Ceramic Heaters-Max voltage
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: A Dumb Old Laptop Can Be Pretty Slick Tool
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I believe there are instructions on the evchargernews.com
website. I'm Cc'ing to Tom Dowling, who runs the website - maybe
he would have something to add.
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: Clinton Library EV Charge station
> Hi Chuck , I haven't gotten around to putting my place on the
charging list
> , and after seeing Charles Whalen
> post about his charging station which sounded more like a
vacation than a
> out let , I feel guilty not having something set up , so How do
we register
> ?
> Steve Clunn
>
>
>
> Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 5:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Clinton Library EV Charge station
>
>
> >I sent an email to the Clinton Library a few weeks ago, asking
> > whether we might include their site on evchargernews.com, and
> > what the specifics of the site were. I got no reply. I
believe
> > I found mention of the EV charging parking spaces in the SF
> > Chronicle newspaper.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:49 AM
> > Subject: Clinton Library EV Charge station
> >
> >
> >> Does anyone know the specifics on it? Just regular outlets
or
> > special
> >> connector or what?
> >>
> >>
> >
http://www.clintonfoundation.org/102705-nr-pc-gn-env-clinton-center-offers-guided-green-tours-of-its-environmental-features.htm
> >>
> >> http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/
> >>
> >> I think charging stations should say if they are on their
own
> > breaker
> >> or not and what size the breaker is.
> >>
> >> Example:
> >>
> >> "Is this outlet on it's own breaker or are all four of these
> > outlets
> >> on the same breaker? Is this a 15 or 20 amp breaker? Well
> > what size
> >> is it?"
> >>
> >> I guess they never considered people having adjustable
> > chargers?
> >>
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am attempting to ship some SAFT STM nicads across country. Has anyone
done this? I need to know what shipper you used and what the packaging
requirements were. I am trying to find out now if USPS will handle
them. UPS looks like a no go for non contract shippers.
I would ship them completely discharged with the end cell water
connections plugged. The electrolyte should be completely absorbed in
this charge state. I'm attempting to get individual battery shipping
boxes from SAFT.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yea.. all that stuff they are not telling me about....
So I get to fend with what they get.
This could be a real challenge... without our spiffy Chargers and controller
and ......meters...and..
My night mare is a pile of floodeds and a few dozzen contactors....
Oh Well... We gona have fun one way or the other....
Madman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
> Hey Rich, give us details. What controller are you going to run? What
motor
> or motors? What batteries? How many volts? What rear end? What tranny? You
> know, all the important stuff.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 10:03 AM
> Subject: Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
>
>
> >
> > Well I guess I can say it now since I have plane tickets and a
> > Itinerary...
> >
> >
> > I made the Amp head Cut for Monster Garage.
> >
> > Wow.... tinsel town time... My own Star on the side walk.....
> >
> >
> > Clearly you all will need to hold the Charger and Regulator orders and
> > support for a week...
> > I will be back in my chair Monday the 12th of Dec.
> >
> > This is Kinda cool for sure...
> >
> > Madman does Monster Garage..
> >
> > But first I need to get a cooling pump from Silverdale before the snow
> > story
> > gets here. I will be at home and Manzanita Micro Until Noon Sunday..
> >
> > The Weather in Seattle is getting to that rather entertaining state....
> > Feet
> > of snow in teh Mountians... a couple of Flakes here, about the New Crews
> > are
> > getting dramatic...
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> > Madman Racing...
> >
> > God I hope I don't screw up.....On TV.....again.....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date:
> > 11/30/2005
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date:
11/30/2005
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TSA might frown on that item....
But... good idea...
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
> <<<<Well I guess I can say it now since I have plane tickets and a
Itinerary...
>
> I made the Amp head Cut for Monster Garage.
>
> Wow.... tinsel town time... My own Star on the side walk.....>>>>
>
>
> Please tell me you'll be bringing the 2x4!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't have any trouble on Gp...
I am also 15 lbs lighter than I have been...
So... I am not worried at all.
Sleep is going to be what I will need.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
>
> Congratulations Rich! :^D
>
> Ya better get on the old treadmill and eat your veggies, I hear these
builds
> can take quite a toll on you physically.
>
> Got some more details about the build?
>
> Have fun and don't screw it up :^D
>
> Roy
>
> Madman wrote:
> >Well I guess I can say it now since I have plane tickets and a
> >Itinerary...
> >
> >
> >I made the Amp head Cut for Monster Garage.
> >
> >Wow.... tinsel town time... My own Star on the side walk.....
> >
> >
> >Clearly you all will need to hold the Charger and Regulator orders and
> >support for a week...
> >I will be back in my chair Monday the 12th of Dec.
> >
> >This is Kinda cool for sure...
> >
> >Madman does Monster Garage..
> >
> >But first I need to get a cooling pump from Silverdale before the snow
> >story
> >gets here. I will be at home and Manzanita Micro Until Noon Sunday..
> >
> >The Weather in Seattle is getting to that rather entertaining state....
> >Feet
> >of snow in teh Mountians... a couple of Flakes here, about the New Crews
> >are
> >getting dramatic...
> >
> >Rich Rudman
> >Manzanita Micro
> >Madman Racing...
> >
> >God I hope I don't screw up.....On TV.....again.....
> >
> .
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
> Olympia WA
>
> My Electric Vehicle Pages:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>
> Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>
> EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
> http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Some say the E-meter's format (comma-delimited ASCII) is good
> because it is easy to read and save with standard programs
> like Hyperterminal, and it can be viewed and manipulated by
> Word or Excel.
>
> Others say this is pointless; nobody will look at the raw
> data. There will be a dedicated program to read, save, and
> manipulate data. Therefore, the format should be something
> cryptic, but compact and efficient.
>
> What are people's thoughts? Would you prefer a generic format
> for a "data output" from EV accessories like the E-meter,
> chargers, controllers, battery monitors, etc? Or, would you
> prefer to have special application programs to read the data
> (which presumably you'd pay extra for)?
For those who don't already know, Lee is firmly in the ASCII format
camp, and has therefore, perhaps unintentionally, presented this in a
slightly biased way ;^>
I don't think anyone would argue against the ASCII format when
considering any *single* device, such as an E-Meter or DMM, etc.
directly connected to a PC or other data monitoring/logging device. The
suggestion of using a non-ASCII data format only arises when one
considers having several (or many) devices that generate data all
connected to the same bus.
The argument is not about what format data would be logged to disk or
displayed on the screen in; that would be ASCII. The argument is about
the format that the data should have when being passed across a
communications bus between devices. Using a plain ASCII format between
devices allows a user to connect a dumb terminal directly to the bus
(through some sort of hardware adapter), and monitor/log network traffic
in a human readable ASCII format.
The issue is that of limited bandwidth. An E-Meter sends data at
9600bps, and generates a report once every second, so sending the data
in ASCII format really doesn't impose any limitation on its ability to
report its data. However, if you connect 10 such devices to the same
9600bps bus, you run into the problem of not having enough bandwidth for
every device to report its data once per second if the data is in ASCII
format. You could address this either by accepting that data will be
reported less frequently, or you can report the data in a more efficient
format.
The downside of reporting in non-ASCII format is that someone can't
simply hook a dumb terminal directly to the bus and monitor the data
directly on their screen; an intelligent dongle is required that
receives the non-ASCII data packets from the bus and forwards them to
the terminal translated to plain ASCII (or equivalently, a program
running on a PC could do this instead of using a simple generic terminal
program).
This is exactly the same situation that we all have with our PCs today.
If you network two PCs together to exchange data, you can send a plain
text email or file between the machines, and view it as plain ASCII at
either end, but you cannot (generally) hook up a dumb terminal to the
wire between the machines and view the ASCII data directly because it
has been reformatted into data packets with headers and trailers and
checksums for error detection, etc.
The question is really if it makes sense to stick with ASCII format data
*packets* when several devices are going to be connected to share a
single communication bus. The implication of doing this is that the
amount of data that can be sent is drastically reduced relative to what
could be sent over the same channel in non-ASCII format. So, do people
think it is more important to get data infrequently, but be able to view
it directly on the bus in ASCII format, or to get data more frequently
without the ability to view it directly on the bus in ASCII format (the
data can still be logged in ASCII format, regardless of the format it
comes over the bus in)?
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I shipped enough BB600 nicads a few months back (approx 1300lbs) that I
had to use a freight carrier. Given that, it turned out to be relatively
simple. I declared the shipment as class 8 (corrosive) hazardous
materials, there was a small surcharge (under $20) and that was that.
I put the boxes on a palette in the back of a pickup truck, strapped them
down with steel bands, and drove it to the terminal. They lifted it off
with a forklift. Easier than I'd thought it was going to be.
I used freightquote.com to arrange it, and the lowest bidder ended up
being Central Freight. There was some confusion at the depot about the
bill of lading and my payment (which I made to FreightQuote), but it got
sorted out in a few minutes and the rest of it went smoothly.
--chris
Paul Wallace said:
> I am attempting to ship some SAFT STM nicads across country. Has anyone
> done this? I need to know what shipper you used and what the packaging
> requirements were. I am trying to find out now if USPS will handle
> them. UPS looks like a no go for non contract shippers.
>
> I would ship them completely discharged with the end cell water
> connections plugged. The electrolyte should be completely absorbed in
> this charge state. I'm attempting to get individual battery shipping
> boxes from SAFT.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Paul Wallace
> '91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, I just bought an heater that looks identical to that in the UK,
called "BIONAIRE" and apparently it was sold at John Lewis. I got it
for £6 on ebay.
*However* it is a 230V, 2kW unit, unlike the US ones which I guess are 120V.
Since you have 216V, it should be a good match.
hink the fan is AC, I'll be using the core only. Hopefully the
element will produce about 900W on my 162V van, which should be enough
to keep the windows demisted after pre-heating with mains power. Then
I can save the petrol powered heater for really cold days :)
I
Regards
Evan
On 12/1/05, Patrick Maston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John, this is the type of thing you are looking for:
>
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4100060&cat=133026&type=1&dept=4044&path=0%3A4044%3A133032%3A133026#Features+%26+Specifications
>
> You just want the square heating element, which is the darker area in
> the center of the picture. I cut my heaters open with a cutoff grinder.
> Remove the fan and AC switches (you cannot use the AC switches for your
> DC application - they won't handle the amperage). Connect all the same
> color terminals together: Black to black and red to red and run the
> wires (make sure they're large gauge since you'll be pulling quite a few
> amps if you connect 2 elements together) to your power source through a
> relay or contactor. I secured my heating elements in the stock vehicle
> heater housing with silicone sealer.
>
> Blue skies,
>
> Patrick
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/30/05 2:42:47 PM >>>
> Patrick - for the benefit of us "Ev"rs in the U.K could you post a
> picture
> or a link to which Walmart ceramic heater you used , so we can try and
> find
> it in our discount stores over this side of the pond. Its getting
> pretty
> cold this time of year without a heater in my ev.
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/668.html
>
> Tks
>
> John
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:23 PM
> Subject: Walmart Heater Cooks
>
>
> > After several days on-the-road use, I have to say that the Walmart
> > heater is a success. I took 2 Walmart 1500W ceramic heater cores,
> wired
> > them together in parallel, and installed them in place of the
> original
> > heater core in my Jet Electrica. They are connected to traction
> pack
> > voltage (120V) through a contactor that is activated by a 12V relay,
> > which is in turn controlled by the heater fan switch. This worked
> out
> > well because the fan switch doesn't supply enough voltage to the
> relay
> > until the switch is at medium speed, assuring airflow through the
> heater
> > cores. Temperature is just controlled by the amount of air flowing
> > through the cores, using the fan speed and temperature slide on the
> > regular heater control panel. When I first turn the heater on it
> takes
> > about 20 seconds to start blowing hot air. So I have 3000W of
> > almost-instant heat at my disposal. Nice and toasty! Total cost
> for
> > the system was about $60.
> >
> > Blue skies,
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> > --
> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> > believed to be clean.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/188 - Release Date:
> 29/11/2005
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ricky Suiter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Even thought they're deep cycle they do have a CCA rating
> for crying out loud, which I realize isn't a good measure
> but it suggests they're capable of decently high currents.
The fact that a battery has a CCA rating doesn't mean it is any less
suited to traction use, it just means that it is also suitable for use
as a starting battery and the manufacturer provides the spec/rating that
allows someone interested in it for starting duty to compare it to other
choices. Optimas all have CCA ratings...
> What's wierd is it acts perfectly normal until a certain point
> then it drops quickly.
That is normal behaviour for a battery with one or more weak cells. It
will charge up and look fine, but when discharged beyond a certain point
the voltage will suddenly drop as the lower capacity cell becomes empty
before the rest. If you keep discharging, you will likely see another
step drop in voltage as the next weakest cell goes dead, etc.
Obviously, as you keep discharging after the first cell goes flat, you
are reversing that cell and causing irreversible damage to it.
> I've confirmed with two separate sources I'm charging properly
> (exactly as per Trojan's specs). I've done a couple equalizing
> charges also along the way. Is it possible I just got an iffy
> batch of batteries?
Which Trojan specs are you charging to? What they publish on their
website for general use is *not* what they recommend for traction
applications.
>From what you describe, I suspect you have not been fully charging the
batteries, and have had some cells get out of balance. These weaker
cells have then been getting hammered by being much more deeply
discharged than you think, possibly even being reversed.
Equalising the pack regularly may help to delay furhter failures,
however, it is likely that you may have cells that are already damaged.
If their capacity is low enough then when you discharge the pack even to
50% these cells may be getting discharged to 80% or 100%, and obviously
they will fail in a shorter number of cycles than the cells that are
only getting discharged 40-50%. How many cycles do you have on the
pack?
Why didn't you see this problem with the GEM car? Could be a different
charger, and could also be that the shorter string in the GEM car
decreased the likelihood of cells remaining undercharged without the
charger "seeing" them.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Evan Tuer wrote:
> "Prodrive wanted over $300,000 per car so Commutacars has bought the
> tooling from them and plan to start manufacturing in the US."
I figured something like that happened...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was curious and bought this video a month or so ago. What he's done
with this car is make a manually activated hybrid (trigger is mounted
on shifter). The battery is in the trunk. It's really no more
complicated than anyone on this list could figure out for themselves.
However, he does a pretty good presentation, and this could be a good
intro to electric drive for the uninitiated.
Richard
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:24:08 -0800
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: EV Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Subject: 21 Ponies?
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Has anyone got any comments on the video here: http://www.21ponies.com/ ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sherry Boschert sent one out in July, file name: PV-EV talk.ppt , ~8
megs. Want me to send it to you? Can your email handle it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan that would be great. Yes I can take an large email.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 3:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: PowerPoint presentations
Sherry Boschert sent one out in July, file name: PV-EV talk.ppt , ~8
megs. Want me to send it to you? Can your email handle it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everyone,
Just finished updates for the KTA Service's website.
http://www.kta-ev.com
We went through the entire site and updated it with new EV components,
updated price lists and kits including two new Jr Dragster kits.
Chip Gribben
KTA Services Webmaster
http://www.kta-ev.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Yea.. all that stuff they are not telling me about....
> So I get to fend with what they get.
> This could be a real challenge... without our spiffy Chargers and controller
> and ......meters...and..
> My night mare is a pile of floodeds and a few dozzen contactors....
>
> Oh Well... We gona have fun one way or the other....
>
> Madman.
>
Surely you can convince Ot to show up with the appropriate Freebie (good
advertising)!
And is Gadget invited, or is he too 15 minutes ago?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well I didn't ship them, but US Battery shipped me a pallet of wet
lead-acids (20) in a semi-trailer. I think they used Yellow Freight
(it's been a while so my memory has faded). They were just set on a
pallet in two layers with cardboard in between, then wrapped in clear
plastic wrap.
Blue skies,
Patrick
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/1/05 2:07:30 PM >>>
I am attempting to ship some SAFT STM nicads across country. Has
anyone
done this? I need to know what shipper you used and what the packaging
requirements were. I am trying to find out now if USPS will handle
them. UPS looks like a no go for non contract shippers.
I would ship them completely discharged with the end cell water
connections plugged. The electrolyte should be completely absorbed in
this charge state. I'm attempting to get individual battery shipping
boxes from SAFT.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My linux suggestion was geared towards low end hardware to the point of
not even needing a hard-drive. In windows setting a user space program
to start when you boot is no problem but maintaining ownership and
reliably recieving information in the buffer is interesting if the other
end doesn't happen to send an EOL or CR. Polling is obviously a bad way
of doing it, asyncronous calls are better, but you have to load the
whole library and it has some problems when you want to associate a time
to an event. (buffering at the OS level). So for reliable operation, you
need to chain an interrupt and handle it yourself, This is ring 0 stuff
and is even more fun. It has been a few years since I played with it,
and my first bout with .net left a bad taste in my mouth so maybe,
hopefully, the serial drivers have gotten better.
In linux a dameon can be trivially created with about 10 lines of code.
In an answer to lee's question on generic data verses compact.
Both
default to slower,simpler, robust ascii. and allow a dip switch or
command sequence to switch to the other mode when more sophisticated
I/O is avail.
That way we can always pull the battry to reset to ascii, plug in a
laptop and diagnose a problem.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Was that a typo? 50% loss of battery life at 98 Degrees? would that
75% total loss at 116? I had better move before next summer, it
definitly gets that warm in a car in fresno in the summer.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ricky,
The 12 volt battery plates (as you know) are thinner
and the insulators in between are more fragile than
the ones used in deep 6s. I think you are just
weeding out the batteries with latent mechanical
issues , that is, any marginal insulators or plates
that are most likely breaking and/or shorting to
adjacent plates. If I am right, the frequency of
failures will taper off but unfortunately not go away.
You may want to start figuring out how to fit some
T125s in there.
Jimmy
> From: Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Am I Killing Batteries?
> To: [email protected]
>
> I don't think it has anything to do with watering.
> I've only added water to the pack once thus far, and
> they are no where near being below the plates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The issue with UPS, FedEX and probably USPS is there are major restrictions
on the shipping of non sealed batteries by air. I was told by a friend who
was part owner in an air shipping business that they just don't want to get
involved and if you mention 'battery' or other key words they just say no.
He said are huge fines for being caught shipping a hazardous product with
the incorrect packaging and paper work and the shipper pays these not the
consignor or consignee.
Since the shipper does not want to be responsible for doing the packaging
and paper work they just say no to anyone they don't trust to get it right.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Maston
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 4:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Any one have experience shipping wet cells?
Well I didn't ship them, but US Battery shipped me a pallet of wet
lead-acids (20) in a semi-trailer. I think they used Yellow Freight
(it's been a while so my memory has faded). They were just set on a
pallet in two layers with cardboard in between, then wrapped in clear
plastic wrap.
Blue skies,
Patrick
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/1/05 2:07:30 PM >>>
I am attempting to ship some SAFT STM nicads across country. Has
anyone
done this? I need to know what shipper you used and what the packaging
requirements were. I am trying to find out now if USPS will handle
them. UPS looks like a no go for non contract shippers.
I would ship them completely discharged with the end cell water
connections plugged. The electrolyte should be completely absorbed in
this charge state. I'm attempting to get individual battery shipping
boxes from SAFT.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Was that a typo? 50% loss of battery life at 98 Degrees?
> would that 75% total loss at 116?
The idea is correct. It is called the Arrhenius equation.
The rule is that in standby applications every 7-10C rise in battery
temperature reduces the expected life of the battery by 50%. (e.g. a
battery that is rated for 10 years life in standby duty at 25C is
expected to provide only 1/2 this life if the temperature is raised
7-10C.)
The cause is the relationship between temperature and the rate of
internal positive grid corrosion.
However, before you get too concerned, bear in mind that it is mostly
relevant to *float* life, that is battery life in a standby application
rather than a cyclic application such as EV/traction duty. In EV duty
your batteries are likely to wear out long before they die of old age,
even in a warm climate...
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 30, 2005, at 4:46 PM, Patrick Maston wrote:
Jerry, this is just a suggestion about your wiring diagram. On my
car I
wired the + side contactor to be activated by the potbox microswitch.
That way the circuit is open until I'm ready to drive.
Hi Patrick,
Thanks for pointing that out. I'm pretty sure it was wired that way
on the first EV, at least I remember hearing the big relay go *whack*
each time I pressed the accelerator. ":^)
I'll be sure to update the online version soon.
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm charging to 14.8 volts per battery then holding that voltage until the
current drops to about 2 amps (PFC 30 charger). The 20hr rate is 130ah, so is
this the right way to charge them? If I raise the voltage much higher I get the
rotten egg smell pretty strongly. I've probably got 50 or so cycles on the
pack. The emeter always resets after charging and shows usually about 2 ah more
put back in to the pack that I took out. Not enough?
The GEM had a Zivan in it which I sent out to get the updated charge curve
programmed in to it. So perhaps the charge is the problem here.
Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ricky Suiter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Even thought they're deep cycle they do have a CCA rating
> for crying out loud, which I realize isn't a good measure
> but it suggests they're capable of decently high currents.
The fact that a battery has a CCA rating doesn't mean it is any less
suited to traction use, it just means that it is also suitable for use
as a starting battery and the manufacturer provides the spec/rating that
allows someone interested in it for starting duty to compare it to other
choices. Optimas all have CCA ratings...
> What's wierd is it acts perfectly normal until a certain point
> then it drops quickly.
That is normal behaviour for a battery with one or more weak cells. It
will charge up and look fine, but when discharged beyond a certain point
the voltage will suddenly drop as the lower capacity cell becomes empty
before the rest. If you keep discharging, you will likely see another
step drop in voltage as the next weakest cell goes dead, etc.
Obviously, as you keep discharging after the first cell goes flat, you
are reversing that cell and causing irreversible damage to it.
> I've confirmed with two separate sources I'm charging properly
> (exactly as per Trojan's specs). I've done a couple equalizing
> charges also along the way. Is it possible I just got an iffy
> batch of batteries?
Which Trojan specs are you charging to? What they publish on their
website for general use is *not* what they recommend for traction
applications.
>From what you describe, I suspect you have not been fully charging the
batteries, and have had some cells get out of balance. These weaker
cells have then been getting hammered by being much more deeply
discharged than you think, possibly even being reversed.
Equalising the pack regularly may help to delay furhter failures,
however, it is likely that you may have cells that are already damaged.
If their capacity is low enough then when you discharge the pack even to
50% these cells may be getting discharged to 80% or 100%, and obviously
they will fail in a shorter number of cycles than the cells that are
only getting discharged 40-50%. How many cycles do you have on the
pack?
Why didn't you see this problem with the GEM car? Could be a different
charger, and could also be that the shorter string in the GEM car
decreased the likelihood of cells remaining undercharged without the
charger "seeing" them.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Personals
Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
Lots of someones, actually. Try Yahoo! Personals
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I want to go with the Ceramic heater core and I plan on buying from Ken at
KTA Services because he has a nice unit with the auxiliary relay, diode,
fuses, and snubber network. It is rated for 108-192 volt battery packs. My
vehicle will run 228V initially and then possibly bumping it up to 252V.
This may be high enough to cook the unit even though it is a PTC device.
What if I run two of them in tandem, wired in series? I don't really need
the added heat...I just want a safe arrangement.
Any thoughts or other options?
Thanks.
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This looks good for me too because of my pack voltage of 228. eBay doesn't
show them in the US. Does anyone know of these 230V heaters in this
country? Or, is there a kind soul in the UK who will ship two of them to
me?(for a fee of course)
Thanks, Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 2:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Walmart Heater Cooks
John, I just bought an heater that looks identical to that in the UK,
called "BIONAIRE" and apparently it was sold at John Lewis. I got it
for £6 on ebay.
*However* it is a 230V, 2kW unit, unlike the US ones which I guess are 120V.
Since you have 216V, it should be a good match.
Regards
Evan
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am replying to my earlier post-
Now, after looking in my archives, I see that there have been many recent
posts about methods of wiring the basic Wal-Mart heater cores to work on
various voltages. Perhaps I have to go the el-cheapo route after all.
I apologize for dredging this back up.
It's time to read what I have stored right in front of me. ;^P
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Rau
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Ceramic Heaters-Max voltage
I want to go with the Ceramic heater core and I plan on buying from Ken at
KTA Services because he has a nice unit with the auxiliary relay, diode,
fuses, and snubber network. It is rated for 108-192 volt battery packs. My
vehicle will run 228V initially and then possibly bumping it up to 252V.
This may be high enough to cook the unit even though it is a PTC device.
What if I run two of them in tandem, wired in series? I don't really need
the added heat...I just want a safe arrangement.
Any thoughts or other options?
Thanks.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release Date: 12/1/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations Rich!
It's cool to know there will be at least be 2 NEDRA members on the
show. Yea!!
With all that knowledge and expertise I'm pretty sure it will be a
successful build.
From what I understand the show will air in February.
See ya!!
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
>Madman does Monster Garage..
I kind of like that. Has a nice ring to it.
It seems the coordinator(s) of this episode sure as hell
knows what they're doing if they're lookibg for your help.
Mr. Wayland and Mr. Wilde care to chime in? <g>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 14:16:56 -0800, "Roger Stockton"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The question is really if it makes sense to stick with ASCII format data
>*packets* when several devices are going to be connected to share a
>single communication bus. The implication of doing this is that the
>amount of data that can be sent is drastically reduced relative to what
>could be sent over the same channel in non-ASCII format. So, do people
>think it is more important to get data infrequently, but be able to view
>it directly on the bus in ASCII format, or to get data more frequently
>without the ability to view it directly on the bus in ASCII format (the
>data can still be logged in ASCII format, regardless of the format it
>comes over the bus in)?
It's not an either-or situation in most cases. Bandwidth is cheaper'n
dirt now. Not excuse whatsoever to run a bus at a snail's pace like
9600. If you want a relative sewer pipe for bandwidth without any
hassle and almost no cost, ArcNet is always there. The chips are
cheap and the physical layer is robust as heck, good enough to work in
the industrial and machine tool environment.
As far as ASCII packet, YES, YES, YES!!! I've spent WAAAAYYY too many
hours staring at a protocol analyzer screen with a cheat sheet right
next to it, looking back and forth, trying to keep my place in the
packet while trying to figure out what the 4th bit of the 33rd byte
means when it's set. It doesn't really matter either way when the
system is working but ASCII data sure makes troubleshooting a lot
easier.
As far as bus bandwidth goes, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense in
a low volume production situation to try to hang the world off one
port. Silicon is so cheap now that it makes sense to allocate a
hardware port per peripheral or per every few peripherals.
Look how USB has evolved over the last year or so. Yes, hubs are
available and I guess they work but when I need to hang 4 USB gadgets
off my laptop, I stick in a 4 port card. To heck with all the
potential problems that hubs and multi-hops bring if I can do it
one-on-one.
Being a hardware-oriented guy, I'd rather throw cheap silicon at a
problem than expensive programmer hours. Both now and with future
maintenance and modifications.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations from me too!
> From what I understand the show will air in February.
I was about to ask this...I can't wait (I hope I remember by that time).
- Arthur
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/awmatt
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