EV Digest 4985
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Flywheel problem - another try
by Osmo Sarin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Setting up a Direct Drive, Comments
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Setting up a Direct Drive, Comments
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Open source car development? Good start,
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Setting up a Direct Drive, Comments
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Open source car development?Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Setting up a Direct Drive
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: White Zombie at the 2006 High Voltage Nationals!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Setting up a Direct Drive, Comments
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) battery resurrection technique
by Carl Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: White Zombie at the 2006 High Voltage Nationals!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Matt,
Great write-up!
On the slower fourth run, the data from the Gtech was pretty interesting,
too. It shows 190 HP and 650 ft-lbs of torque at their peaks.
650 ft-lbs of torque? That is excellent (and about 300 more than the Imp is
putting out). Good thing you are easily distracted<G>.
Looking forward to Battery Beach Burnout.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had to change the server. Forget the web address further below, use
this:
http://www.havina.fi/
Osmo
12.12.2005 kello 11:07, Osmo Sarin kirjoitti:
I´m still trying to figure out how I should fasten the flywheel to my
motor. Or should I dump the flywheel/clutch. I´d prefer not to.
I have two flywheel joint options and fancy drawings in my page:
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~osarin/
If I use a bolt to screw the flywheel to the motor shaft, the "wall"
of the coupler axle is quite thin and could broke under heavy load.
Only 5-6 mm (0.2 inch).
What about the option 2, can the transmission axle keep a light
flywheel/clutch system in its place? Are there suitable bearings to
use between flywheel/coupler and tranny shaft? The bearing rolls only
when the clutch pedal is down of course. Maybe a spring could be used
to press the system, so that dimensioning of the parts doesn´t have to
be so accurate.
Can the transmission handle this construction?
Osmo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
You are taking the twin motors out of Zombie and putting in a single
9"? Are you still going direct drive? Why not use a 13" Netgain motor?
How did you interface your motor to the rear end?
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: John Westlund [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 9:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
Low 14 second run on 1200 amps and 160V... Sweet!
How much does it weigh? Any expectations as to what its
range might be?
Your car has 25 Orbitals, which is the same pack setup I
intend for mine to eventually have. This car would be a very
good datapoint for me to adjust my expectations of range and
performance acordingly. I'll eventually upgrade to a set of
Orbitals, zilla 1k and WarP 9'' after starting out with a
cheap conversion on floodies, and when it is at that
upgraded point I am expecting 14s in the quarter. Your car
will help me figure out just how realistic of a proposal
this is. Mine will be much lighter than yours, as I'm
expecting between 2,400 and 2,600 pounds when it is at that
upgraded stage with 25 Orbitals, Zilla 1k, and a 9" motor...
Glad to see your car got so many responses. I can only
imagine what she'll do with a full 2,000 amps under the
condition you can get traction. Mid 13s? Low 14s is
commendable enough: that's Porsche Boxter S territory.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rodney, Jody and All,
You can match an EV motor to whatever rpm you want by
having it's field wound to the correct size.
For the Freedom EV I'm having my 6.7"s wound at the
factory, D+D Motors, to make more torque at lower rpm's, thus relieving the
nessesaity of a gearing above 4-1 and still getting by higher voltage, the top
speed of 80 mph I need. It also reduces the needed amps to be in the eff power
range.
Using the Bridgestone 14" RE92 Insight LLR tires with
their 22.5" dia helps too.
This is aided by using 2 smaller motors in series to
start, giving twice the starting torque for a given controller, thus like an
electronic 2 speed transmission and at about 30 mph, it switches to parallel
motors, giving me the power at 4500- 5,000rpm needed to cruise at 75mph for
extended periods from the 2 motor's larger brush area and the motor's larger
surface area to get rid of heat.
So twin motors can do what you need. If a larger EV,
just use twin 8" motors wound the same way. You can tell if a motor is by it's
rated RPM which if for instance is around 1800-2000 rpm at rated amps at 36-48
vdc, you can get good power/ torque for a 4-1 final gear and with 72-96vdc, get
good top end power. If one neds even high top rpm, you can use partial field
weakening though better to have it correctly wound in the first place. This is
why I like low voltage motors.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
"Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There is a way around this even. How about putting the motor off to the
side of the rear end and using a chain with a gear reduction. Since most
people put their car in second gear and just leave it that way how about
figuring out the same ratio with two cogged pulleys? I imagine a motorcycle
chain and gears would work just fine. Pick a motorcycle that is raced so
you could get a wide selection of gears and you could basically tune it to
any spec you wanted. Most of those newer motorcycles are making around a
145 horsepower through the chain so I believe it would hold up to EV use.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 6:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Setting up a Direct Drive, Comments
Hiya
I have been playing around with the same idea for a custom car that I plan
to build. Problem is that DC motors rev only up to around 5000-6000 RPM.
That means, as Bob says, you can get away with direct drive but at lower
speeds you end up using a whole heaps of amps from the battery, which
decimates your range. Other end of the scale is using a higher gear ratio
and sacrificing top end.. But you still end up using a lot of amps at lower
speeds (where you do most of your driving).
I am building a car, so I don't have to worry about conversions and use of
existing tranny, hence why I would love to do direct drive.. But not at the
expense of range.
I'm up for any other ideas.
Cheers
Rod
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought the ADC motors had problems going over 6000RPM because of the
bearings they had? That is what I was worried about. My new plan is to
have my car just piddle around town on electric and be gas on the highway.
I was also thinking that with the right controller couldnt a 9" ADC charge
the battery pack being driven from the gas motor?
-----Original Message-----
From: jerry dycus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:21 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Setting up a Direct Drive, Comments
Hi Rodney, Jody and All,
You can match an EV motor to whatever rpm you want
by having it's field wound to the correct size.
For the Freedom EV I'm having my 6.7"s wound at
the factory, D+D Motors, to make more torque at lower rpm's, thus relieving
the nessesaity of a gearing above 4-1 and still getting by higher voltage,
the top speed of 80 mph I need. It also reduces the needed amps to be in the
eff power range.
Using the Bridgestone 14" RE92 Insight LLR tires
with their 22.5" dia helps too.
This is aided by using 2 smaller motors in series to
start, giving twice the starting torque for a given controller, thus like an
electronic 2 speed transmission and at about 30 mph, it switches to parallel
motors, giving me the power at 4500- 5,000rpm needed to cruise at 75mph for
extended periods from the 2 motor's larger brush area and the motor's larger
surface area to get rid of heat.
So twin motors can do what you need. If a larger EV,
just use twin 8" motors wound the same way. You can tell if a motor is by
it's rated RPM which if for instance is around 1800-2000 rpm at rated amps
at 36-48 vdc, you can get good power/ torque for a 4-1 final gear and with
72-96vdc, get good top end power. If one neds even high top rpm, you can
use partial field weakening though better to have it correctly wound in the
first place. This is why I like low voltage motors.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
"Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There is a way around this even. How about putting the motor off to the
side of the rear end and using a chain with a gear reduction. Since most
people put their car in second gear and just leave it that way how about
figuring out the same ratio with two cogged pulleys? I imagine a motorcycle
chain and gears would work just fine. Pick a motorcycle that is raced so
you could get a wide selection of gears and you could basically tune it to
any spec you wanted. Most of those newer motorcycles are making around a
145 horsepower through the chain so I believe it would hold up to EV use.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 6:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Setting up a Direct Drive, Comments
Hiya
I have been playing around with the same idea for a custom car that I plan
to build. Problem is that DC motors rev only up to around 5000-6000 RPM.
That means, as Bob says, you can get away with direct drive but at lower
speeds you end up using a whole heaps of amps from the battery, which
decimates your range. Other end of the scale is using a higher gear ratio
and sacrificing top end.. But you still end up using a lot of amps at lower
speeds (where you do most of your driving).
I am building a car, so I don't have to worry about conversions and use of
existing tranny, hence why I would love to do direct drive.. But not at the
expense of range.
I'm up for any other ideas.
Cheers
Rod
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Stefan and All,
I have a great resource that needs putting up somewhere
that the owner, Dave McCafee calls Knowleage Base which we have permission to
use as a starting point I think could go a long way to getting OS EV's going.
It's 147k and I can get it on the EVDL as too big
probably as it has over 100 URL's many here would be very interested in.
By adding ours to it could be a good way to get started.
If anyone would like to host it. Let Me know?
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hey!
light-bulb-hovering-over-my-head time.
We could start by setting up the site as merely a central directory of
existing resources along with the free project hosting. (Should be
easy/quick enough)
Like so:
http://www.ent.iastate.edu/list/
Yeah, I know, bugs, ewwh. Anyways, ppl would submit links to help it
grow further. This would be the single most valuable thing to have, I
think. Then the directory could simple be folded into the rest of the
site once the community starts to grow. With two admin/moderators (more
to follow?), email forwarding, backup DNS (and potentially content),
plenty of storage, and a good URL, sounds like we could have a decent
starting point, yes?
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All of this makes sense, but why does the White Zombie get both great
acceleration and a high top speed?
-Mike
On 12/9/05, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The big decision is whether to ditch the relatively inexpensive tranny
> and replace it with a suitably powerful (i.e. more expensive) motor
> controller (may be a moot point, since the real motor controller choice
> these days is whether you want your 'Zilla with 1000A or 2000A ;^) or
> not. The advantage to ditching the tranny is that you save the weight
> and space it would otherwise occupy and also save the (relatively small)
> losses associated with it. The disadvantage is that you will probably
> lose a bit of range, and *may* end up with a vehicle that has either
> lower acceleration or lower top speed than it could have.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: Open source car development?
> There's been quite a bit of discussion lately about open-source EV design.
> I'd like to redirect the subject a bit toward open-source design of EV
> conversion components.
> Hi EVerybody;
Snip a bit> For example, what do you do if you still have a Wiley,
original PMC, or
> Russco controller? How about more recent departures from the controller
> race, such as Auburn and DCP? Most of these could still drive EVs with
some
> updating and repair, but the components are often impossible to find and,
> worse, support is almost as scarce.
>
> True, some of these guys are still around. Damon is building golf car
> controllers - but he reportedly doesn't fully support his road EV
> controllers. Russ is today building chargers - but AFAIK he doesn't
support
> his 80s-vintage controllers any more because of parts availability.
>
> I may be dreaming here - this may be totally impractical - but it seems to
> me that if these designs had been turned over to an open-source team when
> their creators decided to move on to other projects, they might still be
> evolving and supported. The designs might have been modified to use
> currently available components (and even improved).
>
Exactly! Are these things patented? Can you just haul off and copy or
redesign, to take advantage of newer electronics. Starting with, for example
a DCP Rapter, reengineering it a bit? My first suggestion would to make it
water tight. Seems most of MY problems were moisture related?
> Again, this may not be practical - I'm no engineer - but this kind of
> support might be able to keep these costly components working for
hobbyists
> of all budget levels.
> Neither am I. I wouldn't know where to begin at designing and building
this stuff! But it MUST be basic high power engineering? Not much demand
just yet, so you cant enjoy the savings of high production Or that's why
Rich and Otmar havent a lot of competition, in this rather specialized
stuff. After all WHAT else is it good for??
> I hate to bring it up, but what happens to the Zilla controller range if -
> heaven forbid - something happens to Otmar? What if he should be badly
> injured or killed in a road accident? What if someone sues him and he
loses
> his business? That could leave Zilla owners in the same boat as Auburn
and
> DCP owners, or for that matter PMC or Wiley owners.
>
In this rediculously lawsuit happy nation, THIS is the big worry.
Maybe that's why all the "LLC" out there? Hell, just on the local sNooze,
survivors, family, of the grandmaw that drove THROUGH the gates into the
path of a Acela Train. It was a tie, train T- boned the Taurus, pushing it
almost a quarter mile to a stop. They all died, Ford side impact isn't THAT
good! But they are sueing!The black box on the train sed he, the engineer ,
was doing all the right stuff, speed, horn all the rulebook things. Gates
were down, the kind you can't drive around! But STILL folks try to sue. I
saw this sort of insanity for YEARS! Amtrak, no WONDER they are broke!
Settling for peoples' stupidity with big bux! Point; if something as
stupidly simple as trains' unswervable, undentable, traits, can be lawsuit
stuff. In EV's, parts or full cars, it can is scary!
> What if Rich, working on the MG show, had been under that big Chevy when
the
> jack slipped? Would Joe or someone else carry on producing and the
> supporting the PFC charger range while he was in the hospital recovering
> from his broken ribs and collapsed lung?
> Well, he MAY have been able to sue the producers of the show? They MUST
have safety stuff in mind doing that sorta work? More than us shade tree
mechanics out there. But Still:. good point.
> I'd like to see open-source, published, modular, expandable designs for
the
> basic components of a hobbyist EV - DC controllers, possibly AC inverters,
> DC:DC converters, and chargers. These designs could be developed by a
> collaboration. As published, they could be -
>
> 1. Built from scratch by hobbyists
>
> 2. Made into kits by manufacturers
>
> 3. Assembled into factory-made units by still other manufacturers
>
> With appropriate licensing terms controlling the possible variations on
the
> theme, one could literally mix and match bits of units from different
> suppliers. It'd be rather like the VW Beetle fans who used to upgrade
their
> cars using bits from later bugs (I had a friend in college who started
with
> a '59 bug, and eventually had parts from just about all the years up to at
> least '68 in both body and driveline).
>
'Til about '68 you could play musical parts with ALL the oldies. Then
they crapped it up so you couldn't. Stuff would ALMOST fit.It wasn't much
fun anymore. Sigh! Flywheel teeth between 6 an' 12 volt models comes to
mind!Couldn't just pop in a 12 volt and be ion yur way! Used to just use the
6 volter on 12 volts. great starts in all weather<g>!
> So, I see two tracks for an open-source component effort.
>
> One is the design of new, modular components that could be homebrewed or
> turned into commercial products.
>
> The other track would be to continue developing and supporting older
> products that have been abandoned by their original designers (assuming
that
> the designers were willing to allow this).
>
Didn't Damon allow somebody else, I don't remember his name but he was
mentioned here on the List awile back? You still CAN get yur Rapter's smoke
reinstalled, and he was gunna make more?
> Thoughts? Comments?
>
Yur UP! Any other ideaz?
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You see, everyone? What a great guy John is! He schools me with the "your
reaction time has nothing to do with your ET" remark, but then he goes out
of his way to make a bonehead mistake just to make me feel better about
myself!
Thanks, John!
Seriously, though, I appreciate the education. Your comment helped to
clarify just what was going on with my 60' times. On the first run I had a
2.444 time, and that was with cold street tires and no burnout. I still have
no idea how they actually hooked up. On the last run, I had a great burnout
and a 60' time of 2.041, which was quick enough for me to feel the blood
slosh to the back of my head!
I couldn't figure out how the albeit less impressive 60' time from the first
run could possibly include that awful 1.05 second R/T, and now I see that it
didn't.
Matt Graham
300V Nissan 240SX "Joule Injected"
Hobe Sound, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wayland [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 2:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
Hello to All,
Chip Gribben wrote:
> John Wayland wrote:
>
> Geesh...Lawless barely got off the plane from the West coast after his
> week-long, full bore Monster Garage extravaganza with the Madman, then
> he does all that with you? It's nice to know there's other EV crazies
> out there like me :-)
>
> Hi John,
>
> Actually Shawn cloned himself. Must have been all that high voltage.
>
> But in reality we have two Shawns out here in the East. Shawn Waggoner
> has been assisting Matt with his spectacular Nissan
Boy, do I feel stupid. I re-read Matt's post, and nowhere, did he say
'Lawless'...sorry 'bout that. I guess I've got the other Shawn on the brain.
I was in contact with him before the Monster garage thing on another vehicle
project, and got nightly 1.5 hour Madman downloads each night last week, so
again, I had constant Shawn Lawless input. I read Shawn Waggoner but saw
Shawn Lawless.
Apologies to Shawn Waggoner!
See Ya....John 'Monster Garage rejectee' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Right now I'm pretty sure I've got the wrong ratio back there, due to a
design change I wasn't thinking about when I ordered the rear end. Netgain
has stated the redline for the Warp13 is 5000 RPM, but I'm now planning on
going a little above that, as the armature in mine will be reinforced with
kevlar to support a higher speed, not a part of the original spec. I'm not
sure of what the redline will ultimately be, and I hope I don't find out
the hard way.
However, based on 5krpm, I've got 4.11 gears in the back that would bring
me to just over 100mph for racing(somewhere between 105-110 IIRC, don't
have the spreadsheet in front of me) based on my current 30-inch tire
diameter. Swapping the pumpkin with one set up at around 5 to 1 or so
would give me closer to 75 for the street, again going from memory.
These ratios are taller than I'd like in both cases given the lack of a
transmission. A higher redline from the motor will enable me to shorten it
somewhat. If I can get 6500 rpm out of the motor (which I understand a
prototype ran at and beyond in testing without the reinforcement) then
that will help a lot.
--chris
On Mon, December 12, 2005 6:34 am, Pestka, Dennis J said:
> Chris;
>
> What ratio rear end are you running, and what motor RPM are you assuming
> for
> your redline figure of 75 MPH?
>
> Thanks;
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Robison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 4:37 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Setting up a Direct Drive
>
> There's something important to consider -- John Wayland has direct drive
> on
> the Zombie, and I'll be doing the same thing soon myself, partly to reduce
> weight and complexity, but also partly due to problems with clutch slip
> under extreme torque. Be aware that in order to successfully implement a
> direct-drive vehicle, you'll have to have:
>
> - a motor capable of very high torque, or
> - a low performance/range expectation and very effective motor cooling,
> or
> - a very low intended top speed, so you can use a shorter ratio in the
> rear.
>
> And be aware that because your motor will be spinning more slowly in
> general
> (whenever your vehicle is not near its maximum speed), it will
> continuously
> be operating in a less efficient RPM range, and may present problems with
> overheating without additional cooling.
>
> On the other hand, you'll be gaining some efficiency from losing the
> transmission. Nonetheless, I'm expecting it to be a net efficiency loss
> for
> my project vs. a smaller motor and a transmission -- but hopefully not by
> too much, especially if I have a separate set of rear-end gears for street
> use, topping out at 75 or so at redline.
>
> --chris
>
>
>
>
> James Massey said:
>> At 12:57 PM 9/12/05 -0800, Joel wrote:
>>>I could use some help in thinking about how to properly connect an
>>>electric motor to a driveshaft through a u-joint. I want to set up a
>>>direct drive for a rear wheel-drive car. What is the best way to do
>>>this?
>>
>> Hi Joel
>>
>> I assume you are intending to keep the rear axle assembly? That gives
>> the gear reduction to allow a motor to run at reasonable RPMs.
>>
>> The ::best:: way I know of is to have a new shaft put into the motor/s
>> that has the tailshaft spline cut directly into it (along the lines of
>> White Zombies' current setup). That way a standard tailshaft can be
>> used (not necessarily the original of the donor vehicle).
>>
>> If it is a street use vehicle, in most places in the world there is a
>> requirement for an odometer, in which case it would be an issue. To
>> use the output shaft and back end of a gearbox grafted onto the motor
>> is probably the most effective, although depending on your access to
>> machining may not be cheap for you. I have a pair of 7" GE DC motors
>> that I am keeping aside with ideas to make them up onto an assembly
>> similar to White Zombies' old setup, but include the back end of the
>> transmission. If I ever get there that would go into the wifes' Nissan
>> Skyline (used as a shopping trolley).
>> We replaced the transmission last year, and the length of the
>> transmission is about the space I'd need for the two DC motors. [Evil
>> thoughts to bolt up the front end of the tranny to conceal the two GEs
>> and put a tiddly little motor onto the old input shaft stub...get 'em
> every time].
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:52 PM
Subject: White Zombie at the 2006 High Voltage Nationals!
> Hello to All,
>
> Oh boy, another NEDRA race, this time in the Midwest!
>
> Yes, 2006 will be a HUGE year for NEDRA and the sport of electric drag
> racing. I've been asked by the current NEDRA president, Rod Wilde, to
> take charge of setting up this year's NEDRA nationals at PIR. I'm well
> known for my 'arm twisting' to get EVers to travel long distances to
> take part in the bigger electric EVents I've been involved with, so the
> warning is out to all you Midwest and East Coast guys....I'll be
> contacting all of you as the new year unfolds!
>
> And speaking of contacting....I received a nice email from John Emde
> concerning the 2006 High Voltage Nationals, the newest NEDRA EVent. The
> FVEAA (Fox Valley Electric Auto Association) and Route 66 Raceway have
> invited me to bring White Zombie to Illinois. The last time I was in the
> Chicagoland area, this great group of guys treated me like a king. I
> have fond memories of my time spent working on Bad Amplitude, working
> with the NetGain boys, and hanging out with the area EVs guys.
>
> So here's the deal...Tim Brehm, Jim Husted, and I are committed (or is
> that should be committed?)...the deadly trio will be heading to the
> Midwest in May, White Zombie in tow, and will race at the 2006 High
> Voltage Nationals!
Wow! What great news! The Zombie performing East of the Misssissippi!
Long time coming, but it is happening! I don't hafta drive so far to the
races!Guess it would be too longa wait to hang out for the Power of DC ALSO
in the Least Coast?MY time zone, EVen.Hey, we're going Nationwide! Maybe
EVen TV crews will come out. History Channel? Heres a good topic for "
Modern Marvels"A quick history of EV, cut to the tracks for todazre runs.
Threy are welcome to MY vids<g>!
" Joliet, Illinois?" Asd john Westland said.
Seeya there!
The way I figure it, if we demonstrate that we can
> travel longer distances for big EVents (I do have a history of doing
> this), then maybe we can rekindle NEDRA's biggest EVent of the year, to
> be held here in Portland (instead of Woodburn) and get the hottest EVers
> from the other parts of the USA (and Canada) to come out west. There's a
> lot of hot street EVs currently being built, plus some pretty radical
> racing machines including Father Time's narrowed VW bug, so the Portland
> races should be packed with high powered EVs.
>
> John Westlund wrote:
>
> >Joliet, Illinois!?
> >
> >
> >Hot damn! That's a few hours drive from where I live, and I
> >would gladly meet other list members and see(and perhaps
> >ride in) the EVs others have built.
> >I've never ridden in an electric car. I'd love to have that
> >chance, just to get a feel for how they ride and so I know
> >what to expect from a properly completed conversion.
> >
We'll take ya out for an EV Dinner at a local eatery. THAT'S a hellova
lot of fun, too.Meet all the Gang, putting faces with names. Worth the trip
from anywhere.Love to meet you, too.
>
> I think I can take care of this problem for you....how 'bout taking a
> wheel lofting spin in White Zombie for your first EV ride? Can you wait
> that long? Tim's gotten pretty good at steering the thing with the front
> tires off the ground...he'll be happy to give you a 'lift' :-)
> Hey! John? I'd like a 'Lift" too, if ya think ya can get my fat ass off
the ground! Maybe some more traction??Line forms where?
> I've found the EVDL contributions from John Westlund to be the ones I
> look forward to reading, and I always rush to open his emails to see
> what he's got to say. He's given me hope that our newest and youngest
> are fully capable of carrying the EV flag.
These guys are gunna DO it! We just hafta peek their interest! What
better way than a day at the Races?
What better way to thank him,
> then to give a ride in the Zombie? Mr. Westlund, now you have even more
> reason to be at the Route 66 track!
>
Seeya there, too!
Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:05 AM 12/12/2005, you wrote:
All of this makes sense, but why does the White Zombie get both great
acceleration and a high top speed?
-Mike
On 12/9/05, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The big decision is whether to ditch the relatively inexpensive tranny
> and replace it with a suitably powerful (i.e. more expensive) motor
> controller (may be a moot point, since the real motor controller choice
> these days is whether you want your 'Zilla with 1000A or 2000A ;^) or
> not. The advantage to ditching the tranny is that you save the weight
> and space it would otherwise occupy and also save the (relatively small)
> losses associated with it. The disadvantage is that you will probably
> lose a bit of range, and *may* end up with a vehicle that has either
> lower acceleration or lower top speed than it could have.
>
>
Good batteries, big controller (not sure if he is still using the warp
drive bypass), a lot of custom motor (with a series parallel switch), and
years of fine tuning. And it was/is a really light car to start with.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, Bob. I feel the same way. The fact that so many of the drivers and
spectators that are at Moroso all the time were so interested in the car and
supportive of us was one of the most rewarding aspects of the night. Shawn
Waggoner and I drummed up a lot of local interest there for the upcoming
Battery Beach Burnout, mostly because they were all asking when they could
see more of these crazy high performance electric cars!
We got so many honest, helpful suggestions from the guys there, ranging from
tire selection and pressure to proper light timing for a low ET. You could
see that they all want to see us do well. It makes for a good show for
everyone!
Matt Graham
300V Nissan 240SX "Joule Injected"
Hobe Sound, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Bath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 7:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
Wow, what a COOOOL post to receive. Glad everything held together; glad
you've had so much success on the project, and WAAAAY delighted to see peer
acceptance of our joule-injected vehicles.
Congratulations!!!
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know if this could ever apply to an ev battery pack but I thought I
would share it with the list since I am so pleased that it worked for my drill
battery.
I found a technique to resurrect power tool batteries online and put it to
work recently and it actually worked.
Here's what to do:
Open the battery case (usually four screws).
Pull out the pack.
test the voltage of each cell.
one or several cells will read 0, mark these cells
Use a 12v charger or a 12 v battery and connect the leads pos to pos and neg
to neg
to the zero cells for 3 seconds each.
These formerly zero cells will now read a voltage.
Re-assemble case
Place battery in chager.
I've only got a few cycles on one of these resurrected packs so far, but the
capacity has been good, so I am optimistic. I don't expect to get infinite
life this way, but with what these damned things cost, I am glad to extend it!
I also used this technique with some dead rechargeable d cells that I had
around the house and they are taking a charge now too.
Carl
Denver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK...
that means I either part of Team Zombie,
OR Madman Racing or...
Monster Garage or...
Well I expect to be there on about 3 accounts.
But it's a long ways off, and I have LOTS of stuff to do and pull off before
then.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 7:52 PM
Subject: White Zombie at the 2006 High Voltage Nationals!
> Hello to All,
>
> Oh boy, another NEDRA race, this time in the Midwest!
>
> Yes, 2006 will be a HUGE year for NEDRA and the sport of electric drag
> racing. I've been asked by the current NEDRA president, Rod Wilde, to
> take charge of setting up this year's NEDRA nationals at PIR. I'm well
> known for my 'arm twisting' to get EVers to travel long distances to
> take part in the bigger electric EVents I've been involved with, so the
> warning is out to all you Midwest and East Coast guys....I'll be
> contacting all of you as the new year unfolds!
>
> And speaking of contacting....I received a nice email from John Emde
> concerning the 2006 High Voltage Nationals, the newest NEDRA EVent. The
> FVEAA (Fox Valley Electric Auto Association) and Route 66 Raceway have
> invited me to bring White Zombie to Illinois. The last time I was in the
> Chicagoland area, this great group of guys treated me like a king. I
> have fond memories of my time spent working on Bad Amplitude, working
> with the NetGain boys, and hanging out with the area EVs guys.
>
> So here's the deal...Tim Brehm, Jim Husted, and I are committed (or is
> that should be committed?)...the deadly trio will be heading to the
> Midwest in May, White Zombie in tow, and will race at the 2006 High
> Voltage Nationals! The way I figure it, if we demonstrate that we can
> travel longer distances for big EVents (I do have a history of doing
> this), then maybe we can rekindle NEDRA's biggest EVent of the year, to
> be held here in Portland (instead of Woodburn) and get the hottest EVers
> from the other parts of the USA (and Canada) to come out west. There's a
> lot of hot street EVs currently being built, plus some pretty radical
> racing machines including Father Time's narrowed VW bug, so the Portland
> races should be packed with high powered EVs.
>
> John Westlund wrote:
>
> >Joliet, Illinois!?
> >
> >
> >Hot damn! That's a few hours drive from where I live, and I
> >would gladly meet other list members and see(and perhaps
> >ride in) the EVs others have built.
> >I've never ridden in an electric car. I'd love to have that
> >chance, just to get a feel for how they ride and so I know
> >what to expect from a properly completed conversion.
> >
>
> I think I can take care of this problem for you....how 'bout taking a
> wheel lofting spin in White Zombie for your first EV ride? Can you wait
> that long? Tim's gotten pretty good at steering the thing with the front
> tires off the ground...he'll be happy to give you a 'lift' :-)
>
> I've found the EVDL contributions from John Westlund to be the ones I
> look forward to reading, and I always rush to open his emails to see
> what he's got to say. He's given me hope that our newest and youngest
> are fully capable of carrying the EV flag. What better way to thank him,
> then to give a ride in the Zombie? Mr. Westlund, now you have even more
> reason to be at the Route 66 track!
>
> See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NICE!!!
Your Z2K did the S/P WAY too soon, you need to program that so it stays in
series longer.
Get the Nitto 555D, Gone Postal has them and so Does ..Bella the Red... my
Name for the Beast we made for Monster Garage.
She's Big Red and Bossy and don't take Crap from nobody....
By the way My Redhead came up with that name... fits the Image of a 62 Bell
Air...
Talk to Otmar about that premature.....er... shift problem.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:30 PM
Subject: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
> Hey everyone,
>
> This update on the Nissan is way overdue, but describing its performance
at
> last night's Corvette Challenge at Moroso Motorsports Park seems like a
good
> opportunity to fill you all in. First, though, a little background:
>
> I've been driving the 240SX around town for the last month or so. It had
> been running at 192V for the first three weeks, with the current and motor
> voltage settings pretty low (you know--around 1000 amps and 150V to the
> motors). Last week, though, I got nine more Exide Orbitals and enough Regs
> to finally cover each of the 25 batteries. With a grand total of about 4
> miles use on these last nine batteries, I felt they had more than enough
> break-in time to take the car to the track!
>
> Shawn Waggoner has been in close touch with all the track managers there
at
> Moroso for the upcoming Battery Beach Burnout, so earlier last week, he
> called up the tech inspector, Gary, to see if we could take the car there
> for test and tune. Gary says, "No problem, bring it over on Saturday night
> during Corvette Challenge and I'll hold them all off when you want to make
a
> few runs down the track." Man, if that's not accommodating, I don't know
> what is. These guys at Moroso are thrilled to have EVs at the track and
> they're doing everything they can to make it easy on us.
>
> So Saturday around noon, Shawn shows up with the trailer and we get to
work
> on a few little details. Hook up reverse lights, raise that pesky
passenger
> power window that's just not cooperating, get some decals on the rear
> window, and give her a nice fill up with the PFC-20. By 4:30 PM, we had
the
> 240 loaded up on the trailer, right behind Shawn's X-Terra, to complete
the
> 1-2 Nissan punch.
>
> We get to the track around 5:30 or so and give Gary a call. "Pull right on
> up to the gate and I'll meet you there," he says. At the ticket booth at
the
> gate, the lady says, "One driving and one watching: 28 bucks." Gary pulls
up
> in his cart and sets 'em straight, though, and they waive the admission
fee
> for us. Nice! We drive on in to the pit area and pull the 240 off the
> trailer. We head straight over to the tech area and go over the car in
> detail with Gary and a couple other inspectors. The more they get into it,
> the more they're just shaking their heads in disbelief. And by this time,
> we've got a crowd of racers around us with questions coming like crazy.
> Shawn and I took our time answering the inspectors' and racers' questions,
> and made sure to let them all know that the first run or two would be
WAAAAY
> turned down on power, just to make sure we got some good test time with it
> before something let loose. I was conservatively telling people that it
> might run a 16 second quarter mile, but that eventually they'd see much
> better than that. You could see that they were loving it, and were really
> excited to see what this EV could do!
>
> Next, we bring the car back over to the pits and set up the laptop and my
> Gtech Pro meter. I set the battery current limit to 1200 amps, motor
current
> to 1200 amps and (series) motor voltage to 320 volts. Parallel motor
current
> is 2000 amps and parallel voltage is 160. Before I know it, we're pulling
up
> to the front of one of the empty lanes and they just wave me right in! I
> figured I'd have at least a minute or two to set up the data acquisition!
I
> had already set up Hyperterm to capture the text to a data file, but at
this
> point, it was dark enough that I could hardly even see the keyboard to
start
> the hairball spitting out data. I pull forward, thinking I just wasn't
going
> to get that critical run data. Just as I'm staging, though, I tell myself
> there's plenty of time for me to lean over, type "p" and then "Q4" to
start
> the data stream. . . there! I did it! . . .just in time to look over and
see
> the christmas tree light sitting on GREEN!
>
> My foot comes down hard on the accelerator. Amazingly, the little
205/60-15
> street tires manage to bite on the track and the car hurtles forward!
After
> a split second, the car lurches, and immediately I figure I lost the
> driveshaft or at least a shaft key. But no! The car continues to pull hard
> all the way down the track. It's going much faster than I had ever taken
the
> car on the street, but on the silky smooth track, there's none of the
> vibration that I used to attribute to my home-made angle iron dual motor
> mount, or perhaps bad alignment of the motors with the differential. She
> pulls hard through the quarter mile, and I begin the long coast-down and
> then turn around to pick up my time slip.
>
> The guy handing out the slip is incredulous. "You ran a 14.27 with an
> ELECTRIC CAR??" Big smile on my face, now: "Yes, I guess I did!" I hit
95.06
> mph through the traps, and to top it off, the 14.274 included a 1.053
second
> reaction time from when I was playing with the laptop! We couldn't have
been
> more thrilled. It could have easily been a 13.5 run for its first time
ever
> on the track, but I was happy to have the data. (Yeah, keep telling
yourself
> that, Matt) Plus, I figured there'd be plenty of runs later in the night
to
> improve on the time.
>
> In the end, though, I was never able to get the tires to hook up again,
> especially after bumping up the current to *only* 1400 motor amps. With
the
> stock Nissan R200 differential, I peg-legged it down the track on runs 2
and
> 3. Run 4 was my best launch, but the lack of an appropriately sized
> generator, not enough time for charging, and the use of precious power for
> my only burnout of the night ended up giving me a disappointing 82 mph
> through the traps.
>
> I'm very excited to have the Hairball data from the first run, and some
> Gtech Pro data from my last run. The motors saw a high speed of 5800 RPM
on
> the 95 mph run. I noticed that I was only in series mode for the first
> three-tenths of a second before it switched to parallel. That was the
lurch
> I felt at the beginning. Basically the first three data points were 1250
> amps, 1000 amps and 750 amps. Then a brief switch to parallel and the full
> 2000 amps came in.
>
> On the slower fourth run, the data from the Gtech was pretty interesting,
> too. It shows 190 HP and 650 ft-lbs of torque at their peaks. It's all
very
> encouraging, since I know there's a solid second I can take off the time,
> just by paying attention to the lights. I have a planned upgrade to the
> Nissan R200V, the viscous limited slip differential, which Lowell Simmons
> and I just pulled out of his 300ZX. Some wider Nitto or Mickey Thompson
drag
> radials are in store for the larger 16", five-lug wheels from the 300ZX,
> too. And I still haven't tapped out the Z2K as far as series motor current
> and motor voltage. Should make for a good showing at the Battery Beach
> Burnout!
>
> The whole night couldn't have been much better (please don't bring up the
> reaction time, though--it's really starting to bother me now!) I can't
> stress enough how great the folks at Moroso have been. Shawn spent some
time
> up with the announcers, and they were all too happy to spread the word
over
> the loudspeaker about "the black Nissan electric car" and the upcoming
event
> in January. Gary was all smiles at the end of the night, and mentioned how
> everyone -- racers and staff, alike -- couldn't stop talking about the
car.
>
> I've been calling the 240SX "Joule Injected", and you'll be able to check
> out the updates at http://www.jouleinjected.com
> <http://www.jouleinjected.com> once I finally get around to posting more
> pics up there. So far, there's only a test image of the contactor setup
and
> a proud Z2K on the firewall, but I've got a library of about 200 pics
ready
> to upload. Check it out later this week!
>
> Matt Graham
> 300V Nissan 240SX "Joule Injected"
> Hobe Sound, FL
>
--- End Message ---
