EV Digest 5093
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: power steering
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) 10hp clark Industrial truck motor 36-48 volt dc NOS Item number:
7581988119
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) My bbb turck.
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Bad floodies??
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Sep Ex - Is it really as bad as I make it out to be?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Bad floodies?
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Sep Ex - Is it really as bad as I make it out to be?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Bad floodies??
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Bad caps. Check your brands
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Basic LED Question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) JET charger schematic
by Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Kostov
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Bad floodies??
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Abusing a MK2 regulator
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) battery confusion abounds was Re: Bad floodies??
by Matt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: power steering
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Bad floodies??
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Abusing a MK2 regulator
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Kostov
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Dragracing top 3
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Abusing a MK2 regulator
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
You should get as much oil out as possible, leave a little in to lube the
spool valve and other parts. Hook the two fittings together using fittings
an a hose. Plugging the fittings made for you to have to push against the
piston in the rack.
Mark Grasser
Subject: Re: power steering
When I was moving the EV around in the shop without any hoses connected to
the power steering gearbox, it was very easy to turn. When I install plugs
in the gearbox, so oil would not be shooting all other the place, it was
hard to turn.
So, I was wondering, a person could connected the hoses to a to a small
fill tank with a air space and a fill cap that would vent off some air
pressure, something like the power steering pump fill tank has.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shanab<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: power steering
I have used option B(modified)
I wanted a faster turning ratio for my mitsubishi PU because I was
autocrossing it . I got a power steering gearbox from the wrecking yard
and cut off the steel tubes about an inch from the unit I then poured
fluid in both tubes and put a jumper hose between inlet and outlet,
without any hose clamp to keep things clean and lubed and let the hose
pop off if I put too much fluid in there and it "locked up". It has been
that way for the last 70,000 miles or so. Turning at a dead stop is
tough but not bad, I have to set my drink down and use both hands :-).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On E-Bay. Starting at $100.
Clark Industrial truck motor
Never used
part number 3/02 MLU4001 2751228
10 horse power
36/48 volt dc
200 amp
It has the internal spline.
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The count down is on, not even one week to go till the big day and of course
there is a ton of things to do. I have replaced the old ACD with a 11 net
gain .
----- Original Message -----
got just about 2 and a half weeks to get my truck ready. I'm not sure
what's
wrong with the 9" adc motor that was in the truck. It ran fine on 120 with
a
Curtis but at 264 with a 1 k its acting little funny . At about 450 amp
I'd
hear a shhhhhhh and lose of power , I let off the go peddle , still runs ,
To me 450 amp, at 260 volts felt like more pick up than anyone would need in
the real world , but BBB is not the real world .
So even though its getting close to bbb time I decided to get a net gain
11
before I splode this 9 . I think if I had more time I might have gone
with
the 2 9"s but with all the drive line stuff to mess with , getting done
what I have to is going to be close . I ordered a clutch for the drag race
site.
The clutch came the day after the motor did , which only took 3 days to get
here , There 11 has the same boil pattern as the 9 , Thank you Net Gain !
Things didn't go so good with the clutch , first time I just bolted
everything where it was before , and put the motor in the truck. Even
adjusting the clutch pebble all the way , the throw out bearing was just
starting to touch when peddle was all the way to the floor , motor come out
, spacers replaced so now throw out bearing seems to be in the right place ,
motor back in truck , test , ahhh . Now there is a bad grinding sound when
pushing the clutch and the motor wants to stop spinning as I push harder on
the peddle . Sounds like the part of the throw out bearing the doesn't turn
it touching the presser plate fingers. I don't know if I'll have time to
take it out again , so I'll just have to leave in one gear for the BBB
event. I've been running the motor at 24 motor volts which uses 6 amps from
the pack to brake it in , and driving it as much as possible , but the com
still looks bright and shinny so I'm still taking it easy ,kind of . I
haven't put it to the floor and held it there yet , but what sporting around
I've done , has impressed me, with just a 1k zilla in it now . Looking for
a 2k form the UPS guy any day , and a nice brown mocha com .
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
LEE,
This is interesting that you got 10K miles out of the exide 6vt from Sams
since I hear horror stories about the exide batteries. Since I am nearing
the finish mark on my truck and batteries will need installation in the very
near future I am again aggressively researching batteries. For the money
flooded sounds like the cheap way to go. If I get 5 years and 40K miles out
of a pack (with proper maintenance) I'm OK. (1275/40000=3.2 cents per mile.
versus about 11.6 cents per mile on my ICE now)
What I have read however is that only people with AGMs are getting this
amount of life but I'm also reading that others are getting good life out of
flooded. (CONFUSION ABOUNDS) The upfront cost is only part of the equation.
I don't mind quarterly maintenance for flooded if that will cover the
watering; much more that monthly maintenance and the issue of flooded vs
sealed becomes moot. This is of course with proper regulation of the daily
charge AND monitoring. However I also don't mind spending double for AGMs IF
they have double the life as standard flooded (deep cycle). There is an
enormous amount of info about batteries on the net with a variety of
opinions sprinkled within.
So is there a single site which can quantitatively report on the cost
comparisons of flooded vs AGM (sealed) given the parameters we all face?
That is initial cost (various brands / models), assuming monitored and
proper charging / discharging routines, and miles of use? It's one thing to
spend a 1300 on 20 6vts for 15K miles of life versus spending 2600 for 12vt
(same Ahr capacity) and only gaining 2 cents per mile advantage. Plus the
added costs for charging systems must be considered for this. It may be a
good project for EVForge Eh??
Anyone chime in here.
Pedroman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: Bad floodies?
Michaela Merz wrote:
I need about 100 to 130 Amps to hold 55 mph. Freshly charged batteries
drop from > 150 Volts to < 133 Volts on accelleration pulling approx.
200 A.
That sounds about right. I had a set of Sam's Club Exide 6v golf cart
batteries in my ComutaVan. When new and warm, they dropped 0.5v at 200a;
when
5 years old and with 10,000+ miles on them, they dropped 1v under load.
Your
24 batteries drop from 150v to 133v which is 0.7v per 6v battery.
After about 15 Minutes pulling 150 A, voltage starts to go down very
fast, though idle voltage goes back up to > 140 Volts. After another 5
Minutes, Voltage has reached approx. 120 V (at 150 A) and idle Voltage is
now at 135 V. Everything goes downhill from there very rapidly.
Are your batteries cold? This significantly raises their internal
resistance,
and thus voltage drops.
Have you been chronically overcharging (using a lot of water)?
Overcharging
tends to cause grid corrosion, which permanently increases the internal
resistance. A batter with this problem has normal voltage and capacity,
but
behaves like it has a resistor in series with it.
Do you have any "stinkers" in the pack that have unusually low amphour
capacity? All it takes is one bad cell to increase the resistance of the
entire string, and limit your voltage. You can find it by taking a drive
to
discharge the pack, then load-testing each individual battery. Any that
drop
much more than the rest are your leading suspects.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There have been some recent posts concerning a 7" x 15" lift truck motor that
was thought to be a series wound motor, but is actually a sep ex motor.
Based on size and weight, I estimate it is at least a 10 HP nominal motor and
can
be pushed higher intermittently. Ideal for a small EV - or is it? Turns out
that there are two of these motors - identical to each other - off the same
lift (right and left). I already knew that though because I bought the first
one, and recommended it to the EV list as a "good motor." Until Friday, I was
perfectly (OK maybe not perfectly) content with mine. It is still on the
garage floor being worked on, and I have been drawing up the motor coupling.
Initially, I thought motor coupling was going to be a major undertaking, but I
found a better way to do it. I was near ready to start machining the coupling
(maybe 1 week out from starting) when I found out (from the other EVDL person)
that the motor is not a series wound motor after all. His motor turned out to
be a Sep Ex. I had been running mine as a series motor for test, so I was
surprised to hear that. Sure enough, I checked mine this afternoon and it is
also
a Sep Ex. I ran is as a pure shunt motor, and it took off like a rocket with
only 12 V. That is more the performance that I was expecting earlier.
I advised the other EVDL person off list that he should either pursue
changing the field to series or scrap the thing and get a new motor. I have my
reasons for saying that. Over 2 years ago, I spent about 200 hours working on
the
ETV-1 which had a stock 20 HP Sep Ex motor and a single speed trans. Much to
my dismay, I was never able to make that thing work nearly as well as the
original design team at the DOE. It was a major disappointment. Later, I
purchased the Jet 007 - which is essentially the same basic car - with a
similar
series wound motor. No real major issues there. The car performed as it was
designed. Maybe not exactly to my liking, but the performance was far superior
to
the ETV-1. To this day, I really don't know where I went wrong with the
ETV-1, and why it never worked as well as it should have. I have always blamed
it
on that SepEx motor. The thing was just too picky about how it was
controlled.
But, now it is 2 years later. I have more experience, and I have the
expertise of the whole list to ask for assistance. I too was going to scrap
(or sell
very cheap) the 7" x 15" lift truck motor, and just find another one. I
found that one, I am sure I can find another one ... like that 8" diameter pump
motor that I found and told the list about. I could have had that thing for
about $75, and I wouldn't have had to ship it because the source is local. I'm
sure he will have others that I can buy. But, I am curious, is this thing (the
7x15 sep ex motor) any good? Can it be used? What would I really be in for
if I tried to use it? The issue is that it will cost a good $400 to get the
thing in the car (minimum). If it isn't going to work, I don't want to waste
any more than I already have on it. I do have plenty of controlers on hand.
OK, only 2 GE EV-1 controllers + several contactors. If I decide to "give up
on this project", all this stuff will go up for sale, so be on the lookout, or
contact me off list if you are interested. I was thinking about the following:
One EV-1 controller 0 - 84 V PWM with 84 V full on bypass contactor on the
armature
One EV-1 controller 0 - 48 V PWM (no bypass) on the field. Only use 18 - 48
V though. Could use 84 V on field also, but it probably isn't rated for that
since it is only a 36 V motor to begin with and those field coils are
typically rated lower than the armature. I've only tried with 12 V so far.
Control scheme as follows:
When the car is turned on, first engage the field controller and ramp it up
to the full 48 V. Use its PMT driver to lock out the armature if there is ever
a fault.
Then engage the armature, and prepare to ramp it up from 0 V to 84 V, with
the field still at 48 V.
I have no idea what the motor speed would be at 84 V armature / 48 V field.
But, lets say it is somewhere between 5 and 15 MPH in 2nd gear. On the ETV-1,
it was about 10 MPH. Time will tell if that is correct. It all depends on
the gear ratio.
Then, gradually reduce the field from 48 V down to as low as 18 V. Any lower
than that, and the torque probably won't be any good. Again, that was my
experience with the ETV-1. The ETV-1 would do about 50 MPH with an 84 V / 24 V
scheme.
In real time, this will all happen very fast. It would be me "stomping the
accelerator to the floor" and the controller (in its controlled soft start way)
ramping up to the 84 V and then going full on. Then, I would need a seperate
speed control to do the field weakening. Maybe a custom accelerator pedal
could do both.
I guess, my question is ... How would the performance ... acceleration ... of
this method compare to a pure series wound motor with me "stomping my foot to
the floor" and soft starting to the full 84 V? I know the car will maintain
the speed once it gets there (if it ever does). Acceleration is my main
concern.
Can anyone comment on this control scheme and give me a reality check if this
would actually work. I still may sell the motor (and it will include CAD
drawings for the shaft adapter). If anyone is interested, let me know.
Steve
Atlanta, GA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Lee Hart wrote:
> Are your batteries cold? This significantly raises their internal
> resistance,and thus voltage drops.
Temps have been around 70 degrees.
> Have you been chronically overcharging (using a lot of water)?
> Overcharging tends to cause grid corrosion, which permanently increases
> the internal resistance. A batter with this problem has normal voltage
> and capacity,but behaves like it has a resistor in series with it.
The batteries are now about 4 months old and haven't used a significant
amount of water. I had to water them maybe twice.
> Do you have any "stinkers" in the pack that have unusually low amphour
> capacity? All it takes is one bad cell to increase the resistance of the
> entire string, and limit your voltage. You can find it by taking a drive
> to discharge the pack, then load-testing each individual battery. Any that
> drop much more than the rest are your leading suspects.
Not that I know of. I load tested each and every battery and they all were
in about 0.1 to 0.2 Volts of each other.
Thanks.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:45 PM 15/01/06 -0500, Steve wrote:
There have been some recent posts concerning a 7" x 15" lift truck motor that
was thought to be a series wound motor, but is actually a sep ex motor. <snip>
But, now it is 2 years later. I have more experience, and I have the
expertise of the whole list to ask for assistance. <snip> I was thinking
about the following:
One EV-1 controller 0 - 84 V PWM with 84 V full on bypass contactor on the
armature
One EV-1 controller 0 - 48 V PWM (no bypass) on the field.
Hi Steve
Not having a shunt or sep-ex motor in my collection, I've not given this
in-depth research, only a little thought.
I agree with the two-controller concept, and I see this as a control issue.
The industrial CNCs that I'm familiar with that use shunt motors have a
motor controller that behaves as you are describing - full field up to (x)
RPM, then full aramature and reducing field above that. However, this would
be a challenge to implement with two EV1 SCR controllers, as the 'pot' is
(I believe) in an active part of the circuit, if it is just to provide a
voltage reference, it would simplify things.
To me the approach would/should be a little different, vary the field 'pot'
based on motor RPM, and the armature on the accelerator. How to vary the
field is where I see the challenge. In a single-gear vehicle, the field
rate-of-change will not need to vary very fast, a few seconds from max to
min should be more than adequate. In a multi-gear vehicle the field may
need to be adjusted in a few 10ths of a second.
Back in the days of double-breasted sandshoes and leather flywheels, this
could have been done by a centrifically operated pot movement device. These
days a more electronic approach is called for.
In a single-gear vehicle the field pot could be driven from a motor-driven
assembly. It would need an RPM to position controller, which is where it
could get...um...interesting. Off-the-shelf, an industrial pulse-to-voltage
converter, providing a set-point for an up/down driving controller, to move
a potentiometer for position feedback, ganged to the field control pot.
DIY electronics: a frequency-to-voltage converter chip, a pair of
comparators for up/stop/down and a return signal from the position sensing
pot. Or a micro of some kind. If the control pot of the EV1 controller is
just providing a reference voltage, the signal could come straight out of
an industrial controller.
I don't intend this to be "a solution", just some ideas to get some
creativity going. I use industrial instrument & control stuff every day, so
that is my 'default setting', but your solution will need to suit you.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm building my ev right now, and I am going to get
$1,000 for 20 6v from Sam's club.
If they last enough time (2-3 yrs) that I can upgrade
to NiMh or Li at a later date.
The AGMs don't make sense for me when I might have
these other battery options in several years.
My guess.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> LEE,
> This is interesting that you got 10K miles out of
> the exide 6vt from Sams
> since I hear horror stories about the exide
> batteries. Since I am nearing
> the finish mark on my truck and batteries will need
> installation in the very
> near future I am again aggressively researching
> batteries. For the money
> flooded sounds like the cheap way to go. If I get 5
> years and 40K miles out
> of a pack (with proper maintenance) I'm OK.
> (1275/40000=3.2 cents per mile.
> versus about 11.6 cents per mile on my ICE now)
>
> What I have read however is that only people with
> AGMs are getting this
> amount of life but I'm also reading that others are
> getting good life out of
> flooded. (CONFUSION ABOUNDS) The upfront cost is
> only part of the equation.
> I don't mind quarterly maintenance for flooded if
> that will cover the
> watering; much more that monthly maintenance and the
> issue of flooded vs
> sealed becomes moot. This is of course with proper
> regulation of the daily
> charge AND monitoring. However I also don't mind
> spending double for AGMs IF
> they have double the life as standard flooded (deep
> cycle). There is an
> enormous amount of info about batteries on the net
> with a variety of
> opinions sprinkled within.
>
> So is there a single site which can quantitatively
> report on the cost
> comparisons of flooded vs AGM (sealed) given the
> parameters we all face?
> That is initial cost (various brands / models),
> assuming monitored and
> proper charging / discharging routines, and miles of
> use? It's one thing to
> spend a 1300 on 20 6vts for 15K miles of life versus
> spending 2600 for 12vt
> (same Ahr capacity) and only gaining 2 cents per
> mile advantage. Plus the
> added costs for charging systems must be considered
> for this. It may be a
> good project for EVForge Eh??
>
> Anyone chime in here.
>
> Pedroman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:31 AM
> Subject: Re: Bad floodies?
>
>
> > Michaela Merz wrote:
> >> I need about 100 to 130 Amps to hold 55 mph.
> Freshly charged batteries
> >> drop from > 150 Volts to < 133 Volts on
> accelleration pulling approx.
> >> 200 A.
> >
> > That sounds about right. I had a set of Sam's Club
> Exide 6v golf cart
> > batteries in my ComutaVan. When new and warm, they
> dropped 0.5v at 200a;
> > when
> > 5 years old and with 10,000+ miles on them, they
> dropped 1v under load.
> > Your
> > 24 batteries drop from 150v to 133v which is 0.7v
> per 6v battery.
> >
> >> After about 15 Minutes pulling 150 A, voltage
> starts to go down very
> >> fast, though idle voltage goes back up to > 140
> Volts. After another 5
> >> Minutes, Voltage has reached approx. 120 V (at
> 150 A) and idle Voltage is
> >> now at 135 V. Everything goes downhill from there
> very rapidly.
> >
> > Are your batteries cold? This significantly raises
> their internal
> > resistance,
> > and thus voltage drops.
> >
> > Have you been chronically overcharging (using a
> lot of water)?
> > Overcharging
> > tends to cause grid corrosion, which permanently
> increases the internal
> > resistance. A batter with this problem has normal
> voltage and capacity,
> > but
> > behaves like it has a resistor in series with it.
> >
> > Do you have any "stinkers" in the pack that have
> unusually low amphour
> > capacity? All it takes is one bad cell to increase
> the resistance of the
> > entire string, and limit your voltage. You can
> find it by taking a drive
> > to
> > discharge the pack, then load-testing each
> individual battery. Any that
> > drop
> > much more than the rest are your leading suspects.
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm using a laptop right now..
My computer wouldn't boot(no video). Opened the case up, dried
electrolyte out of the tops of some of the capacitors.
I and my friends have been through too many motherboards, cd roms, and
power supplies over the last few years.
As you probably already know, turns out there are bad capacitors being
made. Maybe intentionally too so that products don't last forever and
have to be replaced!
Background/history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
Excellent site and message board. List of good and bad capacitor brands:
http://www.badcaps.net/
Those of you that buy and use caps, check your brands...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had some time this weekend, and so breadboarded this circuit, using what I
had in my junk box. Here are the values I used:
+cell____________________________
| | |
R1 > R3 > R4 >
1.5k > 100 > 1.5k >
> > >
| Q1 | Q2 |
| 2N4403 e___|____e 2N4403 |
|_______|/ \|_______|
| b |\ c c /| b |
| | | |
R2 > _|_ _|_ _|_
2.2k > _\_/_ _\_/_ _\_/_
> red | | yellow | green
-cell_|_________|______|_________|
It works as expected. The green LED is always dimly lit, as it is running on
0.5-1ma.
The threshold for the red and yellow LEDs is 2.93v (both equally lit). Below
this, the red LED brightens and the yellow LED dims; above this, the yellow
LED brightens and the red LED dims.
The linear range is 2.75-3.15v. Below 2.75v the yellow LED is completely off.
Above 3.15v the red LED is completely off.
Total current consumption varies with cell voltage. It is 1.3ma at 2v, 4ma at
2.75v, 6.7ma at 3.15v, and 18ma at 4.5v. Since the red LED gets the least
current, it works best to make it a high-brightness type. The yellow and
green can be the cheaper normal-brightness type.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
I am rebuilding an 81 JET Electrica Lynx and am
kicking it up to around 144V. I would like to know
what the transformer specs are in the original 96V
charger and was wondering if anyone has the schematic
for it or knows where I can get a copy.
Also, has anyone charged two cars off one charger
simo? (same 150 pack voltage @ 15A ea avg. all trojan
floods) I am sure my charger can handle it, I was
wondering if one pack would get "lazy" since I would
be charging them in parallel.
Thanks,
Jimmy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was wondering if anyone has specs on
the Kostov motors? (including a good URL? :-)
I don't even know if it is AC or DC.
(or do they make both?)
The links I found in the archive are stale.
Thanks
Seth
(Or did they make such a good motor they
put themselves out of business? :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Lee, this is interesting that you got 10K miles out of the Exide 6v from
> Sam's, since I hear horror stories about the exide batteries.
The Exides don't seem to be as good as the Trojans or USBs, but are a good
deal if you get them cheaper. For me, the Sam's Club batteries were under $40
each.
> For the money flooded sounds like the cheap way to go.
Floodeds are usually less than half the cost per mile of sealed batteries.
However, you can "murder" either kind early from negligence or abuse.
> If I get 5 years and 40K miles out of a pack (with proper maintenance)
> I'm OK.
Golf cart batteries can last over 5 years, but 20k miles is doing pretty good.
If you drive a lot, they will die from cycle life before calendar life.
> What I have read however is that only people with AGMs are getting this
> amount of life but I'm also reading that others are getting good life out
> of flooded. (CONFUSION ABOUNDS)
AGMs have a *shorter* life than floodeds. When you consider that they also
cost more, your cost per mile is 2x to 4x higher with AGMs. What you get in
return is lower maintenance, no watering, and a cleaner battery box.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have my battery pack(exide orbitals) apart in pieces so I am chargeing
the batteries individually with a little 10Amp automotive charger to
keep them fresh. The first group still have the regs connected so I
watched and made sure that the amps drop below 5 and the reg still
limits the voltage and turns on the green LED. Cool, Done, next battery.
I might just have to buy an extra one and mount it permenantly on the
little charger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:03:04 -0500, you wrote:
>LEE,
>This is interesting that you got 10K miles out of the exide 6vt from Sams
>since I hear horror stories about the exide batteries. Since I am nearing
>the finish mark on my truck and batteries will need installation in the very
>near future I am again aggressively researching batteries. For the money
>flooded sounds like the cheap way to go. If I get 5 years and 40K miles out
>of a pack (with proper maintenance) I'm OK. (1275/40000=3.2 cents per mile.
>versus about 11.6 cents per mile on my ICE now)
>
>What I have read however is that only people with AGMs are getting this
>amount of life but I'm also reading that others are getting good life out of
>flooded. (CONFUSION ABOUNDS) The upfront cost is only part of the equation.
>I don't mind quarterly maintenance for flooded if that will cover the
>watering; much more that monthly maintenance and the issue of flooded vs
>sealed becomes moot. This is of course with proper regulation of the daily
>charge AND monitoring. However I also don't mind spending double for AGMs IF
>they have double the life as standard flooded (deep cycle). There is an
>enormous amount of info about batteries on the net with a variety of
>opinions sprinkled within.
>
>So is there a single site which can quantitatively report on the cost
>comparisons of flooded vs AGM (sealed) given the parameters we all face?
>That is initial cost (various brands / models), assuming monitored and
>proper charging / discharging routines, and miles of use? It's one thing to
>spend a 1300 on 20 6vts for 15K miles of life versus spending 2600 for 12vt
>(same Ahr capacity) and only gaining 2 cents per mile advantage. Plus the
>added costs for charging systems must be considered for this. It may be a
>good project for EVForge Eh??
>
>Anyone chime in here.
I to am suffering the pangs of battery confusion. I am not the
richest person. If I pick a bad choice I am out thousands. The
batterys are the only thing keeping me from driving right now. Which
way to jump? Exide? Crown? Optima yellow tops? AGM add at least 500
to the total for a Battery Management System. At least I didn't go
out and buy the 40 dollar special marine from Walmart. I am told that
a flooded cell does not need a BMS. But, would it benefit from one if
one is added? Getting 6 months to a year more out of a pack would
make it cost effective.
Matt Milliron
RMM<AT>door.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 2006-01-14 at 16:27 -0800, mike golub wrote:
> I heard that the Mister Two electric pump is noisey?
> and draws lots of amps...
>
There are differing opinions on this, but in my experience around two
vehicles that use the MR2 pump, it is indeed noisy. For the outside
observer it will almost certainly be the loudest mechanical thing in
your vehicle, at least until you get going and your transmission noise
takes over. It'll almost certainly be louder than your vacuum pump.
More important than how loud it is though, is how it sounds. It's a
mid-high range plaintive whine, that dips in pitch in response to
steering effort. Although it's part of the pump's normal operation, it
sounds like it's struggling. And with the volume of the sound combined
with the public's relative unfamiliarity with the sound characteristics
of EVs, I think it makes the whole car sound like it's struggling. It's
an unfortunate sound for the vehicle to make in my opinion. On the other
hand, it does work well even on vehicles much larger than the tiny MR2,
and it is a convenient solution to the power steering problem.
A few months ago I was intrigued to learn that the Mazda 3 also has an
electric power steering pump, so I bought a used one from a junkyard,
which looks to be in great shape. It has an attached reservoir, and
frankly looks a lot more attractive than the MR2 unit. I haven't gotten
around to testing it however, and I'm not sure yet how to go about it as
the electrical interface is not immediately intuitive. Need to check the
OEM documentation...
--chris
> Thanks!
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
was wondering three things about your rig.
1. what range are you looking to run on a charge?
2. are you planning to drive year round?
3. if so how are you going to keep them warm at night?
When I look up your current temp I see its currently -28*F. The flooded
cells will lose capacity much faster than the AGM's when they're cold. Also
you run the risk of them freezing in a not-fully-charged state. I've had
6000AH gel banks freeze over solid (in the state of dead) for the winter and
with a little coaxing they actually took a charge and lasted a couple more
years ina cycle charge environment. Certainly they'd have lasted longer if
they weren't abused. Floodies on the other hand, if the cases weren't
cracked by the water swelling when frozen and actually took a charge,
certainly wouldn't handle many more cycles. I'm only bringing these
possibilities up because the Auto Electric where I'm located gave me their
delivered costs for their Deka AGM's. $138 for the Seamate 8A31 or $142 for
the Intimidator 9A31. Both batteries are 100AH and have virtually identical
specs except the Intimidators have slightly higher cranking amps (800A
versus 600A if I remember without looking at the sheets). I actually met
the Deka rep the day I ordered my batteries (planned it that way to grill
him with questions). He was tickled about what I was going to use these for
and basically told the dealer to pass these on at their cost. I could give
you his contact info. Surely he has a dealer in your your part of the
state. You'd only be looking at extra $380 for 10 SeaMate 8A31's, with all
the benefits of AGM's. To me that made the difference. If I had to pay
shipping on those things to Alaska though, I'd have gone with cheap
floodies.
BTW, what are you paying for electricity up there? I'm **currently** at
$0.13/KWH with talk of it going up a few cents in the near future.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of mike golub
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 6:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Bad floodies??
I'm building my ev right now, and I am going to get
$1,000 for 20 6v from Sam's club.
If they last enough time (2-3 yrs) that I can upgrade
to NiMh or Li at a later date.
The AGMs don't make sense for me when I might have
these other battery options in several years.
My guess.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> LEE,
> This is interesting that you got 10K miles out of
> the exide 6vt from Sams
> since I hear horror stories about the exide
> batteries. Since I am nearing
> the finish mark on my truck and batteries will need
> installation in the very
> near future I am again aggressively researching
> batteries. For the money
> flooded sounds like the cheap way to go. If I get 5
> years and 40K miles out
> of a pack (with proper maintenance) I'm OK.
> (1275/40000=3.2 cents per mile.
> versus about 11.6 cents per mile on my ICE now)
>
> What I have read however is that only people with
> AGMs are getting this
> amount of life but I'm also reading that others are
> getting good life out of
> flooded. (CONFUSION ABOUNDS) The upfront cost is
> only part of the equation.
> I don't mind quarterly maintenance for flooded if
> that will cover the
> watering; much more that monthly maintenance and the
> issue of flooded vs
> sealed becomes moot. This is of course with proper
> regulation of the daily
> charge AND monitoring. However I also don't mind
> spending double for AGMs IF
> they have double the life as standard flooded (deep
> cycle). There is an
> enormous amount of info about batteries on the net
> with a variety of
> opinions sprinkled within.
>
> So is there a single site which can quantitatively
> report on the cost
> comparisons of flooded vs AGM (sealed) given the
> parameters we all face?
> That is initial cost (various brands / models),
> assuming monitored and
> proper charging / discharging routines, and miles of
> use? It's one thing to
> spend a 1300 on 20 6vts for 15K miles of life versus
> spending 2600 for 12vt
> (same Ahr capacity) and only gaining 2 cents per
> mile advantage. Plus the
> added costs for charging systems must be considered
> for this. It may be a
> good project for EVForge Eh??
>
> Anyone chime in here.
>
> Pedroman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:31 AM
> Subject: Re: Bad floodies?
>
>
> > Michaela Merz wrote:
> >> I need about 100 to 130 Amps to hold 55 mph.
> Freshly charged batteries
> >> drop from > 150 Volts to < 133 Volts on
> accelleration pulling approx.
> >> 200 A.
> >
> > That sounds about right. I had a set of Sam's Club
> Exide 6v golf cart
> > batteries in my ComutaVan. When new and warm, they
> dropped 0.5v at 200a;
> > when
> > 5 years old and with 10,000+ miles on them, they
> dropped 1v under load.
> > Your
> > 24 batteries drop from 150v to 133v which is 0.7v
> per 6v battery.
> >
> >> After about 15 Minutes pulling 150 A, voltage
> starts to go down very
> >> fast, though idle voltage goes back up to > 140
> Volts. After another 5
> >> Minutes, Voltage has reached approx. 120 V (at
> 150 A) and idle Voltage is
> >> now at 135 V. Everything goes downhill from there
> very rapidly.
> >
> > Are your batteries cold? This significantly raises
> their internal
> > resistance,
> > and thus voltage drops.
> >
> > Have you been chronically overcharging (using a
> lot of water)?
> > Overcharging
> > tends to cause grid corrosion, which permanently
> increases the internal
> > resistance. A batter with this problem has normal
> voltage and capacity,
> > but
> > behaves like it has a resistor in series with it.
> >
> > Do you have any "stinkers" in the pack that have
> unusually low amphour
> > capacity? All it takes is one bad cell to increase
> the resistance of the
> > entire string, and limit your voltage. You can
> find it by taking a drive
> > to
> > discharge the pack, then load-testing each
> individual battery. Any that
> > drop
> > much more than the rest are your leading suspects.
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sound like the MK2 is just what the cheap little auto chargers are missing
:-D
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:42 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Abusing a MK2 regulator
I have my battery pack(exide orbitals) apart in pieces so I am chargeing
the batteries individually with a little 10Amp automotive charger to
keep them fresh. The first group still have the regs connected so I
watched and made sure that the amps drop below 5 and the reg still
limits the voltage and turns on the green LED. Cool, Done, next battery.
I might just have to buy an extra one and mount it permenantly on the
little charger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 15, 2006, at 4:21 PM, Seth Rothenberg wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has specs on
the Kostov motors? (including a good URL? :-)
I don't even know if it is AC or DC.
(or do they make both?)
Don't know if they do AC motors. The one I know about is DC. It has
interpoles, but apparently the comm is smaller and not as sturdy as the
one in the ADC line.
Dave Luiz' Ford Ranger has (had?) one in it:
http://home.pacbell.net/evranger/evranger.htm
He fireballed the comm going up a hill. The post is in the archives
here - search for "Kostov fireballed":
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg04631.html
I know it's a pain following the thread from here, but later on Randy
Holmquist confessed that he had 11 more dead Kostovs in his shop.
Some pictures on his Yahoo photo album:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/my_photos
I also know that Jonathan Dodge has one in his Porsche 914 conversion
and has had no problems with it.
Also, White Zombie had a Kostov at one point in its life, I think.
The links I found in the archive are stale.
I believe they are made by this company:
http://www.balkancar-record.com/
...but I'm not really sure.
Thanks
Seth
(Or did they make such a good motor they
put themselves out of business? :-)
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Exactly 300 votes for the electric Mazda to get even with the
current 2nd placed SVX (only 203 votes for the electric Nissan)
I think we'll make the top 3 with all 3 electrics by Wednesday!
Now back to my truck.
I need to get a charger going and found all 3 VFD's dead.
So that's why they were such a cheap lot "used - as is".
I'm using one as full bridge rectifier (240V AC => 330V DC)
and have added a 60V lab supply to get up to 390V DC. Ugly.
Oh well, first check out the wiring on the rear lights and
close the battery boxes and rewire the loose wires under the hood
and where did that power steering pump wire go again?
Hope to be driving this week, keep your fingers crossed.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 5:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Votes - how are we doin' ?- Current Eliminator
In a message dated 1/12/06 5:22:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< I wish Dennis had submitted his Current Eliminator.
How about it Dennis? I'll ship a BLDC blower or pump
for free
if you submit the CE. Most are 13.8Vdc or 27.6Vdc,
I'll
sends specs if your interested.
Rod
>>
Thanks Rod for thinking of the Currenteliminator as a possible contender.I
would like to see her up there someday when I can duplicate or exceed its
record,for now the car is just another bracket racer. She
is racing
at speedworld today. Pinkslip the show is filming at
speedworld today also.
Next weekend 2- $5000.a day bracket races
Last weekend average
reaction time .0047 over 7 passes Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you put a fan and an automotive buzzer on the external load port, it can
survive most chargers and rings the buzzer when done.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike & Paula Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 8:54 PM
Subject: RE: Abusing a MK2 regulator
> Sound like the MK2 is just what the cheap little auto chargers are missing
> :-D
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:42 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Abusing a MK2 regulator
>
>
> I have my battery pack(exide orbitals) apart in pieces so I am chargeing
> the batteries individually with a little 10Amp automotive charger to
> keep them fresh. The first group still have the regs connected so I
> watched and made sure that the amps drop below 5 and the reg still
> limits the voltage and turns on the green LED. Cool, Done, next battery.
> I might just have to buy an extra one and mount it permenantly on the
> little charger.
>
--- End Message ---
