EV Digest 5609
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Buss Bars
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Hi all this is the guy with the electric cobra project :)
by "Michael T Kadie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV digest 5606
by Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Fw: air conditioning for ev's
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Seth's Mastercard commercial
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
by "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Fw: air conditioning for ev's
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: July 4th comes early for the KillaCycle
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: July 4th comes early for the KillaCycle
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: July 4th comes early for the KillaCycle
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Regbus wiring and jumpers
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Regbus wiring and jumpers
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "John Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Buss Bars
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "EVRIDER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
by "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) question about a setup
by Jon Glauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) e-volks
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I also am planning to do major things this weekend. If I don't get the
EV back on the road this weekend, I am gonna cry. With no time to
order, I need your best idea's on buss bars. Are material for these
things usually available at electrical supply places? Or do I go to the
metal yard?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, so I'll introduce the project as well. This is something that I've
wanted to do since the mid 80's when I read about hydrogen fuel cells
and thought electric muscle car.
Now I have the time and money to build it and batteries have come far
enough, and my knowledge, especially after building an electric robotic
car for DARPA last year. So decided to do it.
I am using a factory five cobra coupe kit as the base car, and building
it from the frame up.
I get a lot of white zombie references, and to be absolutely truthful,
white zombie proved to me that what I wanted to do was possible (which
became important for moral). I hope to race white zombie some day and
give him a run for the money.
I have a web page up for the project that someone posted earlier
http://ssinc.us/kitcar/
As to specs, I have pages of math that tell me a wonderful story. But
I'm keeping it to myself until the tires hit the road because there are
WAY too many assumptions.
I'm in San Diego, I have the kit car and donor part in my garage. The
motor (Transwarp 11" is in route to me), the controller (zilla 2k 200v)
is the next off the production line, and the batteries are under
negotiation.
KD
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Bohm [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 4:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hi all this is the guy with the electric cobra project :)
.
Hi Michael, and welcome to the list!
> Just thought I'd sign up and introduce myself.
What exactly are you doing? What specs, etc.? Where do you live?
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Summer Special - Free shipping on all orders over $500! Includes Zillas,
WarP and Impulse Motors, and PFC Chargers
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep that is my plan. crapy milage for the week or so I actualy use them vs
lots of extra weight year round. (still have to figure out the weight
differance more I think about the less the difference looks like).
The real reason this apeals to me is its something I can do. Vs standard AC
you need special equipment to charge it and generic lines and fittings to
build up my car just don't realy exist (can't just go down to fleet n farm
or napa and pick up a selection of tubes and fittings like you can with
break lines or radiator hoses.
I got a year or two before this thing is on the road so I have time to mull
it over some more and do some testing with the TEC modules.
Later,
Wire
From: "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: air conditioning for ev's
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:19:09 -0400
It would take roughly 10 of those to cool enough air for air conditioning.
50 degrees is good but they pull a LOT of amps to do that.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 12:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PJT-4/775/THERMOELECTRIC_COOLER__
HEATER,_PELTIER_EFFECT_.html
Lewis, Brian K wrote:
> Were can I find out more about the TEC concept?
> My car did not have a working AC when I got it so I am starting from
> ground zero.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Jack Murray
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:31 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>
> wow that sound really kludgy, although I'd probably try something like
> that.. You might look into using thermoelectric (TEC) modules, they are
> very power inefficient, but they can produce very cold temps. Me thinks
>
> one could use a TEC to cool water, and pump the cold water through the
> existing heater system in a car and get cold air out the vents. The
> beauty of the TEC is reverse the polarity, and it will then be a heater,
>
> so you solve two problems at once.
> Jack
>
> Jody Dewey wrote:
>
>>It is actually cheaper to get a window unit. I bought a 10,000 btu
>
> window
>
>>unit for $199 that runs on 115VAC. I will be trying to run it off of
>
> an
>
>>inverter to see if it runs OK. Startup current is the hardest part to
>
> get
>
>>to work. If it does, you can bet that I will be installing it in my
>
> car.
>
>>This unit has auto temp control, remote fan operation, and is pretty
>
> quiet
>
>>for its size. It only weighs 75 pounds also.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Behalf Of Danny Miller
>>Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:40 PM
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>>
>>
>>The "portable" AC units I have seen are 3-port units. That is, it
>
> takes
>
>>in cooled air from the room, uses it to cool the condenser, and
>
> exhausts
>
>>it. It's a horrifically inefficient and ineffective cycle because
>>somewhere the room has to draw in hot outside air to feed it. It can
>>actually make the room warmer. In a well sealed room, the pressure
>
> will
>
>>drop slightly and the condenser fan will simply stop moving air and
>
> the
>
>>unit stops working.
>>
>>Window units are 4-port systems, which makes a lot more sense. You
>>might also be able to modify a "portable" unit to be a 4-port.
>>
>>You need quite a few BTUs to be "adequate". I'm not clear on how many
>>BTU it takes to equal a normal sedan's system but I think it's
>
> something
>
>>like 10k BTU.
>>
>>Danny
>>
>>Jody Dewey wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Just get a portable air conditioner and run it off your 12V bus with
>>
> an AC
>
>>>inverter. You will have to take it apart to make it fit in the car
>>
> but
>
>>they
>>
>>
>>>are more than adequate.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joel,
I use the UT terminal, but do not use the recommended bolt that is 18
threads per inch. I use a bolt 5/16 dia and 24 thds per inch, it works
well enough that I only need flat washers (between the lead post and nut
or head of bolt)and tighten just prior to the lead deforming. With no
relative movement they stay tight.
Jimmy
> > Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:44 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Joel Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Lugs Loosen Up
> To: EV List <[email protected]>
>
> I am having a tough time keeping the connections to my
> batteries tight. It appears that over time the
> nut/bolt loosen up.
>
> I understand that lock washers are not a good
> solution. So, what do people use to keep their
> connections tight? Loctite? A special washer?
>
> Thanks
>
> Joel
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just wanted to chime in again: I tried a 2000 BTU compressor unit and the
cooling was almost not noticeable. So - you're going to need a lot of TECs
to get any cooling effect at all.
Michaela
>
> Another source for modules (surplus)
> http://www.mpja.com/listitems.asp?dept=60 I am going to end up making a
> custom waterblock (or salvage one off of something else) and mount the TEC
> and the cold side heatsinks up in the stock airbox. Then run the hot side
> coolent lines out the holes where the AC lines ran and hook it up to a
> small
> pump, radiator and fan. Not exactly sure on size but hopeing that the
> stock
> heater core will work else I have the factory radiator still and can get
> it
> involved as well.
>
> Later,
> Wire
>
>>From: "EVRIDER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>>To: <[email protected]>
>>Subject: Fw: air conditioning for ev's
>>Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:56:33 -0400
>>
>>Still need a way to EXHAUST the 156 dg HOT side in summer. Much like the
>> 3
>>port issue, but that is what I have used before with success, the
>> peltiers.
>>
>>EVRIDER
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Jack Murray
>>To: [email protected]
>>Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 12:45 PM
>>Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PJT-4/775/THERMOELECTRIC_COOLER__HEATER,_PELTIER_EFFECT_.html
>>
>>Lewis, Brian K wrote:
>> > Were can I find out more about the TEC concept?
>> > My car did not have a working AC when I got it so I am starting from
>> > ground zero.
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On
>> > Behalf Of Jack Murray
>> > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:31 PM
>> > To: [email protected]
>> > Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>> >
>> > wow that sound really kludgy, although I'd probably try something like
>> > that.. You might look into using thermoelectric (TEC) modules, they
>> are
>> > very power inefficient, but they can produce very cold temps. Me
>> thinks
>> >
>> > one could use a TEC to cool water, and pump the cold water through the
>> > existing heater system in a car and get cold air out the vents. The
>> > beauty of the TEC is reverse the polarity, and it will then be a
>> heater,
>> >
>> > so you solve two problems at once.
>> > Jack
>> >
>> > Jody Dewey wrote:
>> >
>> >>It is actually cheaper to get a window unit. I bought a 10,000 btu
>> >
>> > window
>> >
>> >>unit for $199 that runs on 115VAC. I will be trying to run it off of
>> >
>> > an
>> >
>> >>inverter to see if it runs OK. Startup current is the hardest part to
>> >
>> > get
>> >
>> >>to work. If it does, you can bet that I will be installing it in my
>> >
>> > car.
>> >
>> >>This unit has auto temp control, remote fan operation, and is pretty
>> >
>> > quiet
>> >
>> >>for its size. It only weighs 75 pounds also.
>> >>
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >>Behalf Of Danny Miller
>> >>Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:40 PM
>> >>To: [email protected]
>> >>Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>The "portable" AC units I have seen are 3-port units. That is, it
>> >
>> > takes
>> >
>> >>in cooled air from the room, uses it to cool the condenser, and
>> >
>> > exhausts
>> >
>> >>it. It's a horrifically inefficient and ineffective cycle because
>> >>somewhere the room has to draw in hot outside air to feed it. It can
>> >>actually make the room warmer. In a well sealed room, the pressure
>> >
>> > will
>> >
>> >>drop slightly and the condenser fan will simply stop moving air and
>> >
>> > the
>> >
>> >>unit stops working.
>> >>
>> >>Window units are 4-port systems, which makes a lot more sense. You
>> >>might also be able to modify a "portable" unit to be a 4-port.
>> >>
>> >>You need quite a few BTUs to be "adequate". I'm not clear on how many
>> >>BTU it takes to equal a normal sedan's system but I think it's
>> >
>> > something
>> >
>> >>like 10k BTU.
>> >>
>> >>Danny
>> >>
>> >>Jody Dewey wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>Just get a portable air conditioner and run it off your 12V bus with
>> >>
>> > an AC
>> >
>> >>>inverter. You will have to take it apart to make it fit in the car
>> >>
>> > but
>> >
>> >>they
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>are more than adequate.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
$21 two tickets (for mom and me) to WHTEC
$17 parking list price on the board (NYC)
$10 overcharge for parking that needs to be
discussed with the Consumer Affairs dept.
Reactions to the movie (just two):
Priceless
I made a badge for my shirt pocket that said "I'm and EV Owner"
There were a sad number of people in the
theater, so I could only catch 1 on the way out..
Reaction one (older lady, upon seeing my "EV owner" badge):
Bravo!
Reaction of my mother to the lady
"I'm so proud of him"
(Now I just have to live up to their expectations
and get the car working)
Two thoughts about the movie:
1. The message came across that the President,Big Oil and Big Auto,
all want us to believe with all our hearts in the FUTURE tech...
so that the PRESENT is drowned in oil.
(BTW, which has more PLASTIC in it, an ICE car or an EV? :-)
2. One thing that was missing. Someone mentioned the
dismal picture the movie painted. Perhaps there could have
been more examples of EV conversions that are being done;
A minute or two (or more) about Jerry Dycus.
(or is his work a secret? :-)
PS were any of the people on this list in the movie?
I didn't catch every subtitle.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dave,
This can be done as was discussed a couple of months ago on the list.
However, you need to be careful to make sure that the converters share
otherwise you will unbalance the pack.
What I was trying to accomplish for John was something that was very clean
and simple and works for his requirements.
Regards,
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
> I've been thinking of doing the same thing, but the 375 volt units are
hard to come by (in my
> price range.) What I have found are the more standard 300 volt units.
These are used in most of
> the Vicor power supplies. I was thinking of using two units, one on each
half of my pack. If I can
> parallel the outputs (so they evenly share the load) I'm hoping it won't
unbalance the pack. The
> 300 volt units have a reasonable input range for a split pack. I was also
considering using a pair
> of their switching power supplies. A lot more moving parts, and probably
less efficient.
>
> Dave Cover
>
> --- Chris Brune <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Dave,
> > I only made one... The modules are pretty expensive, $263 plus shipping.
> >
> > The Vicor module I used is a V375A15E600BL. I added reverse polarity
diodes
> > on the input and output to protect against an inadvertant mis-wiring. I
> > also added 2uF of film cap to the input. Output voltage adjustment is
done
> > with some creative use of the scaling resistors feeding the SC pin.
> >
> > The heatsink/enclosure/connectors were canibalized from a different
product.
> >
> > The data sheet for the Vicor module really has all the information you
need
> > about how to use the module.
> >
> > If others are interested in having the module put into an enclosure with
the
> > extras that I did for John I can build more, but I'd have to make some
money
> > to cover my time and expenses. Ball park I'd say about $550 each....
All
> > proceeds more than likely going towards a Zilla.
> >
> > If you are interested let me know. I would like to get a little
feedback
> > from John before committing to too much at this point. I kind of rushed
my
> > testing because John indicated he would be racing this week.
> >
> > Also, if the intention is to use this in a car where the draw is more
than
> > 20A it will be necessary to add a fan, or rethink the enclosure. This
unit
> > has a significant amount of waste heat.
> >
> > Also, the unit does draw a significant amount of quiescent current when
it
> > is on (about 30mA). So you need to switch it off when not in use for
long
> > periods of time (like overnight?).
> >
> > Regards,
> > Chris Brune
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> > > --- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My friend Chris Brune surprised me with a DC-DC he put together for
> > > > White Zombie. It's heart is a 600 watt Vicor module, but Chris set
it up
> > > > inside a compact, pro-looking heatsink/chassis complete with
'factory
> > > > look' multiple pin plug-in harnesses. The package only weighs about
a
> > > > pound and a half. It runs from 226V - 445V, but can go as high as
500V
> > > > without damage, and, it can dip below 226V without damage. The unit
> > >
> > > Chris, did you make more than one? Can you make another? Are you
willing
> > to share the plans? I've
> > > been searching high and low for a dc-dc with these specs, to no avail.
> > This one looks like the
> > > cat's meow.
> > >
> > > Dave Cover
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
they are inefficient that is for sure, certainly if AC system is already
there drive it with aux motor. but how about doing the TEC water
cooling, you can "precharge" it by dumping in a bucket of ice in the
water before you leave. better perhaps one can fashion the limited cold
air directed to the driver, then it will FEEL a lot colder,
and the entire car interior space doesn't need to be cooled down.
in fact, as you may know, just putting cold on the back of your neck
makes a significant effect in how warm you feel.
Jack
Michaela Merz wrote:
Just wanted to chime in again: I tried a 2000 BTU compressor unit and the
cooling was almost not noticeable. So - you're going to need a lot of TECs
to get any cooling effect at all.
Michaela
Another source for modules (surplus)
http://www.mpja.com/listitems.asp?dept=60 I am going to end up making a
custom waterblock (or salvage one off of something else) and mount the TEC
and the cold side heatsinks up in the stock airbox. Then run the hot side
coolent lines out the holes where the AC lines ran and hook it up to a
small
pump, radiator and fan. Not exactly sure on size but hopeing that the
stock
heater core will work else I have the factory radiator still and can get
it
involved as well.
Later,
Wire
From: "EVRIDER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Fw: air conditioning for ev's
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:56:33 -0400
Still need a way to EXHAUST the 156 dg HOT side in summer. Much like the
3
port issue, but that is what I have used before with success, the
peltiers.
EVRIDER
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Murray
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PJT-4/775/THERMOELECTRIC_COOLER__HEATER,_PELTIER_EFFECT_.html
Lewis, Brian K wrote:
Were can I find out more about the TEC concept?
My car did not have a working AC when I got it so I am starting from
ground zero.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
wow that sound really kludgy, although I'd probably try something like
that.. You might look into using thermoelectric (TEC) modules, they
are
very power inefficient, but they can produce very cold temps. Me
thinks
one could use a TEC to cool water, and pump the cold water through the
existing heater system in a car and get cold air out the vents. The
beauty of the TEC is reverse the polarity, and it will then be a
heater,
so you solve two problems at once.
Jack
Jody Dewey wrote:
It is actually cheaper to get a window unit. I bought a 10,000 btu
window
unit for $199 that runs on 115VAC. I will be trying to run it off of
an
inverter to see if it runs OK. Startup current is the hardest part to
get
to work. If it does, you can bet that I will be installing it in my
car.
This unit has auto temp control, remote fan operation, and is pretty
quiet
for its size. It only weighs 75 pounds also.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
The "portable" AC units I have seen are 3-port units. That is, it
takes
in cooled air from the room, uses it to cool the condenser, and
exhausts
it. It's a horrifically inefficient and ineffective cycle because
somewhere the room has to draw in hot outside air to feed it. It can
actually make the room warmer. In a well sealed room, the pressure
will
drop slightly and the condenser fan will simply stop moving air and
the
unit stops working.
Window units are 4-port systems, which makes a lot more sense. You
might also be able to modify a "portable" unit to be a 4-port.
You need quite a few BTUs to be "adequate". I'm not clear on how many
BTU it takes to equal a normal sedan's system but I think it's
something
like 10k BTU.
Danny
Jody Dewey wrote:
Just get a portable air conditioner and run it off your 12V bus with
an AC
inverter. You will have to take it apart to make it fit in the car
but
they
are more than adequate.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:00 PM 6/29/2006, you wrote:
Do they let just anybody next to the track while doing burnouts?
Not spectators, just crew with wristbands that have signed a
liability waver.
Bill Dube'
Seems a
bit dangerous. Nice fireworks display. If those batteries are causing you
too much trouble I'd be glad to take them off your hands. (grin) Lawrence
Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dube" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 4:12 PM
Subject: July 4th comes early for the KillaCycle
>
> The fourth of July came a bit early for the KillaCycle crew. We
> provided a $1000 fireworks display at the track yesterday. The rear
> motor reverted to the fourth state of matter about 2/3's of the way
> down the track.
>
> The A123 Systems Li-Ion battery pack (376 volts) supplied an awesome
> amount of HP that turned out to be a bit too much for one of the
> motors. I guess I'll have to keep my comms a bit cleaner. :-)
>
> Here is a clip of that last run for the day.
>
> http://www.killacycle.com/Second%20Run.wmv
>
> Here is a burn-out clip showing good use of the "bottomless pit" of
> energy these cells can hold. We could have done this burn-out and the
> run SIX more times before recharging.
>
> http://www.killacycle.com/Burnout.wmv
>
> We should have the motors all back up to snuff for our next planned
> outing at the AHDRA event on Nov 10-11 at Las Vegas.
>
> See you there,
>
> Bill Dube'
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The brushes really had no damage. A tiny bit of erosion on the rear
of one of the brushes, and a brush leads welded to its spring. That was it.
I think what happened was a shunt that came loose from the
stud. This made the other brushes take a large load and strike an
arc. This is just a guess, but there was a disconnected rigging shunt.
Bill Dube'
At 06:47 PM 6/29/2006, you wrote:
Hey Bill, All
Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The fourth of July came a bit early for the KillaCycle crew. We
>provided a $1000 fireworks display at the track yesterday. The rear
>motor reverted to the fourth state of matter about 2/3's of the way
>down the track.
Hey Bill you better at least grab some pics for my Hall of Flame
album if those motors don't find there way here. If I could ask a
favor don't discard those old brushes. I've been talking with a
brush manufacturer about analyzing a brush (such as yours) to see
what they would recommend as far as grades go. Be a free (okay
couple bucks in freight) way to get some outside input.
I have to admit that I got a lot of enjoyment from that in a sick
sort of way. I doubt I would have enjoyed it as much if they had
been mine though, lmao. Awesome video, loved the sound of the burn
out as it's ending and it chirps.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
I can't believe it but I'm actually blood lusting for close up pics, lmao!
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
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--- Begin Message ---
At 05:44 PM 6/29/2006, you wrote:
Bill,
Godspeed on the repairs to the machine.
Was that 8.911 seconds @ 134.02 MPH on the run? Cool.
Not an official record because we couldn't run again to back
it up. :-(
Scotty obviously was coasting through the lights because the
speed was all the way down to 134 mph. I imagine the fire ball slowed
the bike down a bit too.
Steve incorrectly described the deceleration as "violent."
Scotty, the rider, said, "It cut out and pushed the nose down. When
it did it a second time, I lifted." ("Lifted" means "let off the
throttle.") The deceleration you feel when the bike fireballs is
sudden, but not at all violent.
Bill Dube'
Mike B
DEVC
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--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton writes:
>
> One of the YTs that Ralph Merwin generously donated to my EV project
> bears the scars of having had the reg mounted right on top of it. I
> don't know why the reg misbehaved, but it nearly melted through the top
> of the battery before Ralph caught it. Mount your regs *near* the
> batteries if you must, but don't mount them directly on the battery if
> you can avoid it.
Also, don't mount the 'external loads' to the regulator either! That
was one of the problems I had. I was using Mk1 regulators with large
resistors bolted to the regulator itself. When one of the regulators
got wet and failed on, the resistor got hot enough to scorch the PCB
and melt into the top of the battery.
> What the heck is RJ35? You either need an RJ12 (6-conductor,
> phone-type) or RJ45 (8-conductor, PC network-type) connector.
> Double-check the reg documentation to confirm which you need before
> buying; if you have PC network cable handy, just try plugging it into
> the regbus jack; if it fits, you can use common RJ45 network connectors;
> if it is too wide, you need to use the RJ12 phone connector.
I used 6-wire telephone cable from Radio Shack. They also sell the
6-pin connectors and the crimper used to install them. The wire is
sold in 25' lengths with a connector on each end. You need to cut
one end off as they are not wired properly for use on the regbus.
When crimping on connectors, make sure the wires are oriented the
same direction in each connector. I used the white wire as my marker,
making sure it was always on the left side with the connector tang
pointing up.
Ralph
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--- Begin Message ---
Jude Anthony writes:
>
> As a follow-on question, what's that 7-pair header (J8, I think?) doing
> there? The only docs I can find on the Manzanita Micro site appear to
> describe a different version, since mine don't separate Sense jumpers.
That's the test header Rich uses during manufacturing. Best leave it
alone...
Ralph
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--- Begin Message ---
Hope the compressor doesn't burn out with the modified sine from the
inverter. Where are you going to put it, in the window? :)
Paint your roof white, add some insulation up there, do a vaccum test on
your car and seal all the leaks. Pull the panels off your doors and add any
insulation you can against the outer steel - even 1/4" closed cell foam is
way better than nothing. Add reflective glazing on your windows. Add a white
coroplast belly pan against the parking lot tarmac. Then you won't need a
10,000 btu unit filling your back seat.
- John Foster
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jody Dewey
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: air conditioning for ev's
It is actually cheaper to get a window unit. I bought a 10,000 btu window
unit for $199 that runs on 115VAC. I will be trying to run it off of an
inverter to see if it runs OK. Startup current is the hardest part to get
to work. If it does, you can bet that I will be installing it in my car.
This unit has auto temp control, remote fan operation, and is pretty quiet
for its size. It only weighs 75 pounds also.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
The "portable" AC units I have seen are 3-port units. That is, it takes
in cooled air from the room, uses it to cool the condenser, and exhausts
it. It's a horrifically inefficient and ineffective cycle because
somewhere the room has to draw in hot outside air to feed it. It can
actually make the room warmer. In a well sealed room, the pressure will
drop slightly and the condenser fan will simply stop moving air and the
unit stops working.
Window units are 4-port systems, which makes a lot more sense. You
might also be able to modify a "portable" unit to be a 4-port.
You need quite a few BTUs to be "adequate". I'm not clear on how many
BTU it takes to equal a normal sedan's system but I think it's something
like 10k BTU.
Danny
Jody Dewey wrote:
>Just get a portable air conditioner and run it off your 12V bus with an AC
>inverter. You will have to take it apart to make it fit in the car but
they
>are more than adequate.
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Normally buss bars from a electrical supply house are a special order item,
which are assemble in to buss ways enclosures rated for different amperes and
space for different voltages.
We bought a bussway section for 800 amp rating that cost about $100.00 a foot
which was 5% over factory price.
At some metal supply houses, you may be able to find brass bar stock.
My best source was at a the same metal supply house, which handles a metal
savage section. They happen to have a stack of 2 inch by 1/4 inch plated
copper buss bars that they broke down from a electrical buss way that a
electrical company turn in.
These were in 4, 6, and 8 foot lengths that sold for about $5.00 a foot.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shanab<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 8:57 PM
Subject: Buss Bars
I also am planning to do major things this weekend. If I don't get the
EV back on the road this weekend, I am gonna cry. With no time to
order, I need your best idea's on buss bars. Are material for these
things usually available at electrical supply places? Or do I go to the
metal yard?
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--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
{quote} "Remember R-12 is only harmful to the environment when it
ends up _in_ the environment. Inside of a working AC system it is
really a non-issue."
With all respect, as a certified HVAC/R tech, with Mobile 609 EPA Cert. since
1990, I can assure you that there is only ONE make I have seen in 20 years that
SOME of the R-12 stays IN the system over time, as much as that is possible.
That is Toyota's. Once we had a 1971 Corona in that had the AC working
perfectly, on the original charge! Still that little bit that escapes through
o-rings, vibration and so forth is VERY bad. You can no longer, by law, design
any NEW system and use R-12. It is only available for servicing existing units
and at that is not recommended. I won't do it. There are others that work as
well, and better than the inefficient 134a.
The real issue I had in mind was that the porous nature of the rubber hoses
used in automobiles; It allows the smaller refrigerant molecules to escape
slowly over time, with no "known" leaks. That's why I said "NO R12 or Hummer"
so to speak. It is also why they made the entire industry change the hose
material along with the switch to R134a in 1996. While R134a IS 'less damaging'
to the ozone, it still has the depleting properties. It is better than not.
They removed the free chlorine atom in R134a that attached itself to the oxygen
atoms, thereby taking it right up to our blue sky. But I still feel, IF you go
to the trouble to drive an ZEV, then it should not be emitting more damaging
substances into the air than CO itself. That to me is no real help to our
little planet. Not to be terse. I LOVE AC. That's why I work on it.
Batteries and Air Conditioning- all I need on a deserted island, I always say.
;) And some really good PV's.
-EVRIDER
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim,
I hope he doesn't kill it... He better not try and add some field weakening
to the converter. ;-)
I'm not very web page savvy, in fact this is my first attempt. I used the
comcast built-in stuff to create a simple page to show what the inside of
the converter looks like. I actually didn't take one of the outside yet.
It is in an aluminium die cast enclosure, basically the other side is a
bunch of heatsink fins and the connector features.
http://home.comcast.net/~csbrune_ev/index.html
Take a look... a little crude inside, but I think it will work. A sheet
metal cover goes over this, and I put some Nomex on the cover just for
better isolation. The heatshrink at the top encloses the capacitors.
Diodes are 3x MBR2545CT on the output. A 6A axial diode on the input.
Regards,
Chris Brune
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Hey Chris
>
> John called me and we chatted about his new toy. Just wanted to let you
know you made him a happy boy, that is unless he can't kill it, lmao! In
that case many others will then feel challeged to to attempt to do what John
can't, hehe. Just thought I'd give you the heads up 8^ ) It may not be to
late to run away 8^ P
> Anyway welcome to team Plasma boy!
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everyone,
I'm working out a setup for a car. I need a little advice on the
configuration. What are some opinions? I'm mostly chosing the battery
set right now. If necessary I can change controllers, but since I
already have this one I would be more convienient to keep it.
Requirements:
30 mile range
Use is daily commute to work. 14 miles one way. Mostly level drive.
Must cruse at 65MPH for 8 miles (this is of course without any traffic
slowing down the freeway), otherwise 40MPH
Average acceleration. Keep up with average traffic. Not be
embarasingly slow.
Here is what I have:
Curtis 1231C (144V x 500A)
ADC 9"
Saturn 5 speed
Here is what I'm thinking for batteries:
12 x Hawker Odyssey PC2250
Reason for Hawkers is they have the most storage. Price is only somewhat
an issue. Thought about buddy pairs with Optimas, but dont want the
trouble of the extra wiring and placing the 24 batteries. Also would
perfer seald batteries to cut down on maintainence and cleanlyness problems.
I know the batteries actual EV capacity is not what is stated here, but
this is for comparison.
Battery Weight 20Hour(ah) Ah/lb
RSRV Cost cost/Ah Cycles(80%) peukert's
Optima D31A 59.8 75 1.254
155 167 2.227 260 1.0788
Trojan 31-AGM 71 110 1.549
215 193 1.755 300 1.1356
Hawker:
Genesis G1270AH10EP 58 72 1.241 180
200 2.778 300 0.9789
Odyssey PC2150 75 95 1.267
200 245 2.579 400 1.0789
Odyssey PC2250 86 126 1.465 240
370 2.937 400 1.1600
Even if I changed controllers for a high voltage series string with 18 x
Optima D31, I would get 33.5kW @1080lbs.
Going with 12 x Odyssey PC2250 gives 34.6kW @ 1032lbs.
I'm a little stuck now. Any ideas on which way is better?
-Jon
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Depends. If the temp at the suction line is still hot, more condensor
area will improve the efficiency and the overall output capabilities.
I don't expect it to "pool", though there is additional resistance to
the flow. This MIGHT be enough to make a pressure drop across the
condensor, which means either the high side gets higher (and has to do
more work) or it will have less pressure at the expansion valve which
means it has less cooling capacity.
Easy to measure. In fact I measured my house A/C system the other day
with an infrared thermometer. My condensor must have been pretty good,
because it was cooling down the compressed coolant back to within 1F of
ambient. But also I noted the suction line- coming off the evaporator-
seemed pretty cold. I seem to recall it was like 60F, even though the
house was still cooling down so it was sucking in like 85F air from the
room. That suggests to me the evaporator is not being as effective as
it could be putting the cold into the room, it's just returning the cold
to the compressor. But I'm no expert, in fact I was trying to look up
what constitutes "normal" and maybe want to open up the case to clean
the evaporator coils. I've had this house for years but for all I know
the previous owners could have done something dumb like flip the air
filter to the other side when it got filled up and clogged the evap coil
with crud.
Danny
Jody Dewey wrote:
Here is a question - you can seriously improve the effeciency of an AC unit
by increasing the size of the condensor. I thought about using two
condensors but as the freon cools it changes to liquid. I believe that it
would pool up in the second condensor and not go anywhere. Has anyone tried
this? Maybe I should just get a condensor from a truck or a large van
instead.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an e-volks kit ..... If I can be of any assistance let me know
Jimmy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>> The real issue I had in mind was that the porous nature of the
rubber hoses used in automobiles; It allows the smaller refrigerant
molecules to escape slowly over time, with no "known" leaks. That's
why I said "NO R12 or Hummer" so to speak. It is also why they made
the entire industry change the hose material along with the switch to
R134a in 1996. While R134a IS 'less damaging' to the ozone, it still
has the depleting properties. It is better than not. They removed the
free chlorine atom in R134a that attached itself to the oxygen atoms,
thereby taking it right up to our blue sky. <<<
This may be bit OT, but Neon John had mentioned using
isobutane+propane as a direct replacement for R12 in
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/64468
(amoungst some vitriol), and I wondered if you had any experience with
this or R-406a.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is what I done to run a AC unit in my EV:
I use the new face mount compressors for the later year cars in my 1977 El
Camino. A aluminum GMC accessory mounting plate with all the adjusting
brackets that mounts on the front of a GMC Diesel engine, holds this AC
compressor and also a GMC vacuum pump and power steering unit.
I can either drive the whole works with a 90/180 VDC Balden 3 hp motor or can
select a large Dodge inline clutch unit off the pilot shaft of the main motor.
The clutch unit on the AC which is wire to a AC relay is also control by a in
console switch, that I can select to AUTO - REGEN - MANUAL positions.
In the REGEN position, the micro switch on the accelerator pot. turns on the AC
control relay which controls the AC clutch unit. Every time I let up on the
accelerator, this relay will be activated, and the AC clutch unit will
activated if the compressor pressure is down.
I am therefore running the AC with no battery power at the time.
I can control the alternator-inverter system the same way, by turning on or off
the R-Terminal (the regulator wire going to the 2 wire standard alternator or
in a heavy duty 7 wire alternator, you can step the charging rate from 13.5
volts to 16 volts.
It is nice to see the motor amps and battery amps setting at 0 amps and still
running the EV and all the accessory units.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shanab<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 7:53 PM
Subject: RE: air conditioning for ev's
Those look nice, but no wattage or btu numbers. :-(
reversing the polarity will work, but it looks like it has different
size heatsinks
http://www.tellurex.com/12most.html<http://www.tellurex.com/12most.html>
may have this module???
http://www.tellurex.com/starter.html<http://www.tellurex.com/starter.html>
62W to move 39W, That is not bad but that is 0 cooling
looking at
http://www.tellurex.com/cooling_modules/c127.html<http://www.tellurex.com/cooling_modules/c127.html>
if it is 100(37.7)outside and we want 75(23.888) inside DeltaC is 13.8
degrees C.
At 4 amps and 12V about 27 watts of cooling.
ok, let it run an hour 27watthour = 92 Btu or 1/130 of a ton
130 would be, gulp 8kw or 27Amps at my pack voltage. not counting fans.
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