EV Digest 5610
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Regbus wiring and jumpers
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: pml's new concept car... can it be as good as it sounds?
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: July 4th comes early for the KillaCycle
by "Derek Barger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Hi all this is the guy with the electric cobra project :)
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: e-volks
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Regbus wiring and jumpers
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) FW: FW: Hi all this is the guy with the electric cobra project :)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: FW: FW: Hi all this is the guy with the electric cobra project :)
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: air conditioning for ev's- Power Generation anybody?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: newb gratitude
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Electric Cobra Project
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Seth's Mastercard commercial
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Capacitors replacing batteries
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: pml's new concept car... can it be as good as it sounds?
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "Jim Lockwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Lugs Loosen Up
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Another way to get isolated DC-DC....
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Dragtimes Featured Car Vote Too Close...VOTE!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "EVRIDER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Dragtimes Featured Car Vote Too Close...VOTE!
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) WKTEC article
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Best cruising RPM
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Seth's Mastercard commercial
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: question about a setup
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Hi all this is the guy with the electric cobra project :)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Hi all this is the guy with the electric cobra project :)
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Dragtimes Featured Car Vote Too Close...VOTE!
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks so much for the advice, and for the offer. I'm a little
overwhelmed, but can't imagine how I could possibly refuse. I've only
got the 12 batteries, so at least it shouldn't be any great burden. And
Tuesday will give me time to figure out the lengths I need. ;-)
I'll hold out for someone else to answer the "header" question.
Meanwhile, are you saying that the top of the battery isn't a bad
*location*, as long as I provide some kind of standoff? I was thinking
double-sided foam tape, for about 1/16" standoff, but I could go with
some acrylic sheets, too. Spacers and screws? Yeah, that sounds like a
lot of work. Worth it, if it'll save my investment, but I'd use the
tape if it would get the job done.
And, Roger: I found that reference to RJ35 in the Manzanita Micro
website documents. I didn't know what it was, either. Turns out an
RJ11 connector fits fine. (It also turns out RJ35 is a kind of cable.
It's been driving me nuts all day.)
Jude
Matthew D. Graham wrote:
Hi Jude,
Check out L-Com at http://www.l-com.com/productfamily.aspx?id=2274 That's
where I bought a bag of 100 RJ12 (6X6) connectors and 100 feet of the flat,
six-conductor stranded RJ cable (silver satin). The link above is the whole
product family, which shows the connectors, cable and crimper (at least it
just did for me).
If you don't want to buy all that for just 12 batteries, I've probably got
enough of the connectors for you and at least 60 feet of cable left over
from the installation on Joule Injected. I've also got the
stripper/crimpers, of course. I could probably knock out 12 jumpers for you
in about 10 minutes if you give me the lengths you need. Email me at
matt(-at-)suncoast(-dot-)net if you want to do that, or if you just want
some cable and connectors. I'll be out of town until Tuesday, but I'll still
be checking my Suncoast account.
I noticed Roger's response, and I'd agree that you absolutely want to mount
them off the surface of the battery (I zorched one after placing the solder
pads squarely on a big fender washer!) I used 1/8" Lexan (or was that just
plain acrylic sheet?) and then drilled four holes each and used spacers with
little #6 screws as standoffs for each reg. Why, yes, that was a lot of work
for 25 regs!
I gotta say that little bit of protection definitely saved one reg at the
Power of DC. When the Orbital let loose at ONLY 1600 amps, it was the only
thing that stood between the spewing vents at the top of the battery and the
bottom of the reg. Just had to replace the fuse (and battery, of course) and
she was ready to go again!
Can't help you on that header. Haven't used it.
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
http://www.jouleinjected.com
Hobe Sound, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Jude Anthony [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 9:15 AM
To: EVDL
Subject: Regbus wiring and jumpers
Okay, I've searched all 24,039 unread messages in my inbox, and all the
archived messages, and I'm still a little confused.
I bought the PFC-20 and Rudman Mk2B regulators. I'm quite paranoid about
killing off my batteries, since this is my first EV. The batteries -- 12
Optima D34 YellowTops -- just arrived, so I'm working on installing
everything.
The regulators will go right on top of the batteries, and the instructions
clearly show that I can wire the regulator B- and B+ directly to each
battery. Cool.
I'm a little confused over the bus wiring. I'm going to pick up an RJ35
stripper and crimper tool, but the regbus connectors appear to have 6
conductors; I've never seen a telephone wire with more than 4. Granted, my
experience is very limited. Nonetheless, can someone advise me on what kind
of RJ35 wire I have to get, and how to lay the wires in the connectors?
As a follow-on question, what's that 7-pair header (J8, I think?) doing
there? The only docs I can find on the Manzanita Micro site appear to
describe a different version, since mine don't separate Sense jumpers.
Thanks in advance,
Judebert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
found this ...
"The NICE Car Company will unveil a new electric city car. Developed
and manufactured by a leading European producer of advanced lightweight
vehicles, the car will be marketed as part of an ownership package that
will give London residents a real alternative personal transport
solution - no more queuing for petrol, no road tax, exemption from the
Congestion Charge and ease of parking, which is free for electric cars
in many Central London locations."
http://www.britishmotorshow.co.uk/content.asp?PageID=280
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That was probably me saying that and yes I was wearing a shirt. I
thought we might have lost both motors or some connections on the
pack. I must say these A123 cells are great.
P.S. the Car is running great just need to hookup the regen and get
some new batteries.
Derek Barger
On 6/29/06, Death to All Spammers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The fourth of July came a bit early for the KillaCycle crew. We
> provided a $1000 fireworks display at the track yesterday. The rear
> motor reverted to the fourth state of matter about 2/3's of the way down
> the track.
>
> The A123 Systems Li-Ion battery pack (376 volts) supplied an awesome
> amount of HP that turned out to be a bit too much for one of the motors.
> I guess I'll have to keep my comms a bit cleaner. :-)
>
> Here is a clip of that last run for the day.
>
> http://www.killacycle.com/Second%20Run.wmv
>
>
Right about the time of the flames, you hear an "Oh, sh!t" from
someone near the camera - hopefully not the one wearing the A123 shirt.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Michael and All,
Michael T Kadie wrote:
Just thought I'd sign up and introduce myself.
From one hi pro electric dude to another, welcome, Michael! Your Cobra
plans sound great. Please, keep us all informed on how this project
progresses. I read the blog at the Cobra discussion group and couldn't
help but notice this comment from Greg:
>Do it right though! Did you ever see that "Sucking Amps" show or
whatever it was called on TLC or Discovery or something? >One of the
biggest clusterf...s I've ever seen. What a pack of complete morons.
While I completely agree with his 'Do it right', It stops there. The
folks he's calling 'complete morons' would be none other than Father
Time, Rod Wilde, Otmar Ebenhoech, and Rich 'Madman' Rudman, four names
synonymous with world records, quality craftsmanship, extreme EV
knowledge, and cutting edge design.
Father Time is a long time friend of mine who's built world record
setting electric drag bikes (one ran 12.4 @ 100 mph) so meticulously
assembled, they've won awards at hot rod type car shows.
Rod Wilde built and drove Maniac Mazda to its MC/B world record of a
stunning 11.2 @ 108 mph, a record that still stands as the world's
quickest street-bodied electric car.
Otmar Ebenhoech designs and builds the mighty Zilla motor controllers
that most all record holding DC powered EVs run, and, his 'California
Poppy' electric 914 Porsche set a world record for the SC/B class of
street legal class running mid 13s.
Rich Rudman is a seasoned EV drag racer who just happens to operate
(with Joe Smalley) Manzanita Micro, makers of state of the art chargers
that most all full bore EV drag racers use at the strip and at home.
To call highly respected EV pioneers the likes of these guys, 'complete
morons' is laughable, and only makes Greg look like one. In fact
Michael, you'll more than likely be talking with each one of these guys
(if you're smart) about the best drive train design, the best
motor-tranny combo, the best controller, and the best charger as you
sketch out your own vision for a high performance EV. Finally, Greg
needs to remember, this was reality TV, not real life. Feel free to post
the above to the Cobra list, if you so desire.
Again Michael, welcome to the EVDL. When you end up with a scorching
fast electric Cobra, while Greg drools over it, just tell him you bought
state of the art components and learned everything from a bunch of morons.
See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
what kind of performance do you get with the motor?
jmygann wrote:
I have an e-volks kit ..... If I can be of any assistance let me know
Jimmy
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--- Begin Message ---
That is where the automated tester connects. It is new to the most recent
revision of the board.
It relieves the technician from having to probe 14 individual test points
(like on the previous boards.)
The automated tester reduces the calibration and test time from 20 minutes
to about 5 minutes allowing the crew to produce more regs per day with the
same staff. Reg testing is no longer the worst job in the shop. Nobody liked
doing Reg testing until the reg tester came on line.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: Regbus wiring and jumpers
> Jude Anthony writes:
> >
> > As a follow-on question, what's that 7-pair header (J8, I think?) doing
> > there? The only docs I can find on the Manzanita Micro site appear to
> > describe a different version, since mine don't separate Sense jumpers.
>
> That's the test header Rich uses during manufacturing. Best leave it
> alone...
>
> Ralph
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael,
Welcome to the show. Get that car on the road and you may BE the show. I
always thought a Cobra kit would make a good EV; a nice
looking one at that. Questions though:
1. Part of the look of the Cobra are the side pipes. You gonna keep those?
Maybe lose 'em for the racing?
2. What do you figure the roling chassis and body weigh, before batteries,
motor, controller etc.?
3. Did you go fiberglass or carbon fiber on the body?
4. And if you don't mind me asking, what'd ya pay for the kit?
Good luck building.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Michael T Kadie
> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 6:51 PM
> To: 'Ryan Bohm'; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Hi all this is the guy with the electric cobra project :)
>
>
> OK, so I'll introduce the project as well...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> 3. Did you go fiberglass or carbon fiber on the body?
>
> 4. And if you don't mind me asking, what'd ya pay for the kit?
>
> Good luck building.
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
If the answer to #3 is carbon fiber, do you really need to know the
answer to #4?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey, an interesting idea there might be an extra large compressor
combined with extra huge accumulators on the high and low sides. Would
that work? I'm not sure... there's a lot that would be different. For
one the condenser will only see flow when the compressor is running
during the regen phase and then it'd be running at many times the
capacity that a normal sized condenser and there won't be enough time to
cool it.
Somebody help me- why was R22 chosen for window and house A/C units
while R12 (later R134a) went into cars? I keep thinking it should be
easy enough to find a >10k BTU window A/C unit and just strip the
compresser, expansion valve, evaporator, etc and just splice it into the
existing vehicle's system. Driving an AC motor off of DC isn't rocket
science, especially if you don't have to isolate it and not having
isolation sounds like something you could live with. If the system
voltage is anything higher than 110v then it's cake, lower and some sort
of more awkward boost conversion does come into play.
But still this may be an R22 device and I keep suspecting there's just
gotta be some good reason why they didn't want to use R22 in cars.
Danny
Roland Wiench wrote:
Here is what I done to run a AC unit in my EV:
I use the new face mount compressors for the later year cars in my 1977 El Camino. A aluminum GMC accessory mounting plate with all the adjusting brackets that mounts on the front of a GMC Diesel engine, holds this AC compressor and also a GMC vacuum pump and power steering unit.
I can either drive the whole works with a 90/180 VDC Balden 3 hp motor or can select a large Dodge inline clutch unit off the pilot shaft of the main motor.
The clutch unit on the AC which is wire to a AC relay is also control by a in console switch, that I can select to AUTO - REGEN - MANUAL positions.
In the REGEN position, the micro switch on the accelerator pot. turns on the AC control relay which controls the AC clutch unit. Every time I let up on the accelerator, this relay will be activated, and the AC clutch unit will activated if the compressor pressure is down.
I am therefore running the AC with no battery power at the time.
I can control the alternator-inverter system the same way, by turning on or off the R-Terminal (the regulator wire going to the 2 wire standard alternator or in a heavy duty 7 wire alternator, you can step the charging rate from 13.5 volts to 16 volts.
It is nice to see the motor amps and battery amps setting at 0 amps and still running the EV and all the accessory units.
Roland
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--- Begin Message ---
While the Thermal modules may not be that efficient, look at the power
generation modules . roughly 1.5 inch square 4.8 V and 1.2 amps. With approx
2800 of those you would have 312 Volt at 50 amps. Enough to charge a pack while
a car cooks in the sun anyway. They convert Heat to power.
Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Those look nice, but no wattage or btu
numbers. :-(
reversing the polarity will work, but it looks like it has different
size heatsinks
http://www.tellurex.com/12most.html
may have this module??? http://www.tellurex.com/starter.html
62W to move 39W, That is not bad but that is 0 cooling
looking at http://www.tellurex.com/cooling_modules/c127.html
if it is 100(37.7)outside and we want 75(23.888) inside DeltaC is 13.8
degrees C.
At 4 amps and 12V about 27 watts of cooling.
ok, let it run an hour 27watthour = 92 Btu or 1/130 of a ton
130 would be, gulp 8kw or 27Amps at my pack voltage. not counting fans.
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A Lancia? This should be interesting. Sure don't see many of
those here in the U.S.
Looking forward to seeing it on the album.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Daytona Coupe has a .29 drag coefficient. With Li Ions,
he won't even need to make it a hybrid...
Something like this deserves roughly 900 pounds of 18650 Li
Ions, a Zilla 2k, and twin 9"s. Would give over 300 motor
horsepower and 600+ lb-ft of peak torque. At say 2,400
pounds, that would pull 12s or quicker. Not to mention, 200+
miles range under normal driving...
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Reverend Gadget was in this film, and frequents this list.
I have yet to see the movie. I only know he's in it from
seeing the trailer. He states he thinks "big oil" had a role
in killing the EV. I will say that I'm inclined to agree,
but will mention nothing further due to the risk of delving
too off topic.
I do know he has a red 1972 Triumph Spitfire EV, with a GT6
Mk1 or MkII body slapped on it. He claimed 24 miles range to
80% discharge in mixed driving including some 70 mph highway
driving, if I remember correctly. For 15 Exide Orbitals,
that corresponds to ~150 Wh/mile. He had an alignment
adjustment and some Khumo LRR tires(Don't know if the brand
is spelled correctly). I *think* he has an ADC 6.7" motor
and a Zilla 1k controller. If that's the case, switching to
a larger 9" motor and doing some aerodynamic modifications
could allow 100 Wh/mile! That would allow perhaps 100 miles
range on 1,000 pounds of lead!
Seth Rothenberg wrote:
>PS were any of the people on this list in the movie?
>I didn't catch every subtitle.
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: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
This is interesting but it looks like 10 years before they can make some but
if true it would obsolete batteries; but theres an inverse exponential decay
on caps that makes them impossible to use as a sustaining voltage device. I
think thats a fundamental problem that they havent addressed. (Kinda like
hydrogen)
Mark
Mark E. Hanson
Senior Design Engineer
Synchrony Inc.
6410 Commonwealth Drive
Roanoke, VA 24018
(540) 989-1541
(540) 989-0467 Fax
---------------------------------
Below is a link to an article about the new capacitor technology.
http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2006/06/26/mit_research_may_spell_end_for_the_battery/
Mark
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.nicecarcompany.co.uk/page2.htm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of jmygann
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 1:56 AM
> To: Lawrence Rhodes
> Subject: Re: pml's new concept car... can it be as good as it sounds?
>
> found this ...
>
> "The NICE Car Company will unveil a new electric city car. Developed and
> manufactured by a leading European producer of advanced lightweight
> vehicles, the car will be marketed as part of an ownership package that will
> give London residents a real alternative personal transport solution - no
> more queuing for petrol, no road tax, exemption from the Congestion Charge
> and ease of parking, which is free for electric cars in many Central London
> locations."
>
> http://www.britishmotorshow.co.uk/content.asp?PageID=280
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
R-22 molecules are smaller than R-12 and will pass through the walls of the
rubber hose and the pressure is more than 2 times that of R-12.
jim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joel Silverman wrote:
> I am having a tough time keeping the connections to my batteries
> tight. It appears that over time the nut/bolt loosen up.
Yes. Lead is a soft metal, and tends to creep and flow under pressure.
This causes the terminals to loosen over time. Higher temperature
accellerate this effect. So does high pressure, so overtightening just
makes it happen faster.
> I understand that lock washers are not a good solution. So, what
> do people use to keep their connections tight? Loctite? A special
> washer?
Lock washers don't help, because the nut isn't moving. The best solution
is a spring washer, called a "belleville spring". It's made of spring
steel and dish-shaped. You tighten the terminal to flatten the
belleville spring. As the terminal subsequently cold flows, the spring
takes up the slack to maintain constant pressure.
Also, avoid the cheap lead automotive and "emergency repair" type of
battery clamps. Being lead themselves, both post *and* terminal will
cold flow, making them loosen twice as fast!
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
> Could an MOV/varistor or something similar be used to put across
> the fet driver output lines to short and blow the fuses during an
> over voltage condition?
An MOV or varistor is just a cheap slow version of a zener diode. People
do use zeners for gate protection. However, they are usually too small
to handle a major fault like an IGBT base-collector short.
To protect against this kind of failure, you want to use a "crowbar"
circuit. This is any circuit that SHORTS the base to emitter in the
event of any failure that causes excessive base-emitter voltage. Typical
parts are SCRs, SIDACs, Sidactors, etc. They become a short if the
voltage exceeds some chosen threshold, forcing the IGBT off. And,
because their power dissipation is low when shorted (1v at 10 amps is
still only 10 watts), they can draw enough current for long enough to
blow a fuse, to halt the carnage earlier.
> Could this same setup be applied to the 120/240 vac lines using an
> mov, varistor? Current draw is not suppose to be more than 2 amps.
Yes, although it is usually easier to use a cheap MOV, because the rest
of the parts being protected (bridge rectifier etc.) can handle 10x
overloads for long enough to blow the AC line fuse.
> Saving the board components is not an issue. Keeping the board
> traces from smoking is.
I know what you mean!
Many times I will put a deliberately thin trace on a board. It acts as a
"free" fuse, so I know where the weak point is that will fail. I include
two plated thru holes at each end of it, so I can repair it with a piece
of appropriately sized wire if it ever fails.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello to all,
The Mustang clubs must all be voting, cause the Mustang is on top this
morning at 4341 vs Matt's 4286. Please vote, it's the final day to push
an electric over the top once more. It's a tough battle going on.
Yesterday, we over-powered them, but at night, the votes started racking
up for that quick stang. Let's try to beat them with a day of strong voting.
See Ya......John Wayland
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--- Begin Message ---
YES, I have worked with R-406a and many more. R-406a (sold as Autofrost and
GHG-X7) is questionable at best. It contains 33% isobutane that is very
flammable, it has 33% R-22 (From your home AC) and that tends to separate from
the other substances and escape through even the best barrier hoses, and 33%
%R-142b, and anything ending in a "b" should not go into our cars. The R-22
simply doesn't work in cars because of the leakage. While Not R-12 this is
still very bad for the atmosphere. This is why there are copper lines on your
home AC, not rubber or barrier hoses. By the time you use all the required
special barrier hoses and o-rings and compressors, you might as well build a
dependable R134a system, and avoid the good chance (as much as WE like to show
off our cars at gatherings) of the first offense charge of $27,000 from the
EPA. They go to shows too. You can buy a LOT of battery for that money. I LOVE
Air Conditioning, personally. I work on it and with refrigerants every!
day. There's a lot more to it than just hoses and pressure from a can.
Superheat, supercool, and super bad ideas on the market to name a few. ;)
Short quip; We had a lady in Florida who let someone do this (used one of the
'new' "drop-ins") to her Marquis, she didn't know what it meant. There was a
pin hole leak in the evaporator shortly after, and as her husband lit his
cigar, the car exploded, killing them both. The technician was charged, as it
is illegal to use a flammable in a MV of any type. There was no law regulating
this when R-12 first went away and the price jumped, so many offshoots sprung
up. Shortly thereafter, NHTSA made them some laws, as did the EPA.
The only mainstream acceptable replacement for R-12 (I didn't say drop-in-the
EPA recognizes NO drop-in refrigerants, period) is R-134a. Otherwise we are
risking worse environmental damage than just driving that Hummer in the end.
Many are terribly flammable. ALL of these, while used allot in RVs in the
50-80's, are illegal now, unless you're cooking. Iso/propane actually cools
great. I have experimented with them all. In an ICE you have a started and an
alternator sometimes sparking, the starter usually only at startup and no
compression/high pressure yet, even though if there has been a leak, it can go
boom then; In an EV you've got contactors and LOTS of sparks and brushes (DC)
and it is a major danger. R-406 pressures are all wrong for a mobile AC. R-134a
is very inefficient, but it works with larger condensers and evaporators. Much
less efficient, and goes against EV principals, but it works. I am biased,
having grown up on R-12. There are some really good substitutes f!
or R-12 I use, but no such thing as a "drop in" replacement. They are all
blends. I use FR-12 (formerly known as FRIGC). I know the owner personally. His
company, CFC Refimax LLC is the U.S. Marketer of FRIGC FR-12 and its sister
product R-416A. They are here in Atlanta. I have used the other main ones, like
Freeze12, Freezone, and so forth, but they are dangerous, and unstable and
some are flammable. Approved doesn't mean it is for a car, nor safe. EV's
present a special concern because of the many spark sources. I have yet to see
a sealed, explosion proof 1500A DC contactor for less than the cost of an
entire EV.
Better go with R-134a and avoid the hassles.
-EVRIDER
----- Original Message -----
From: Death to All Spammers
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>>> The real issue I had in mind was that the porous nature of the
rubber hoses used in automobiles; It allows the smaller refrigerant
molecules to escape slowly over time, with no "known" leaks. That's
why I said "NO R12 or Hummer" so to speak. It is also why they made
the entire industry change the hose material along with the switch to
R134a in 1996. While R134a IS 'less damaging' to the ozone, it still
has the depleting properties. It is better than not. They removed the
free chlorine atom in R134a that attached itself to the oxygen atoms,
thereby taking it right up to our blue sky. <<<
This may be bit OT, but Neon John had mentioned using
isobutane+propane as a direct replacement for R12 in
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/64468
(amoungst some vitriol), and I wondered if you had any experience with
this or R-406a.
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Chris Brune <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi Jim,
>I hope he doesn't kill it... He better not try and add some field weakening to
>the converter. ;-)
Hey Chris
OMG, That line made me bust out laughing (I almost spit my coffee onto my
computer), I see you heard about the field weakeing adventure huh??
Okay now go to his web page, see the line "I blow stuff up so you don't have
to"??
Yeah I didn't either till he sucked me in, lmao....
We got to hookup I can tell I like you already!
Ohh and by the way it's never good to give John new ideas, hehe.
Hey John I'll be sending you happy thought, so you go boy! Best of luck
tonight!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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Hey John all
Ohhh my
I went to vote this morning and that Mustang had jumped way up since
yesterday. Looks like he's 74 votes ahead and that's after my vote. I know
that they run on eastern time so any votes cast after 9:00 tonight for us
westerners will count as tomorrows vote.
What a bummer thing to see this morning, especially right after Chris' funny
idea about the inverter weakening!
Cya all
Jim Husted
John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello to all,
The Mustang clubs must all be voting, cause the Mustang is on top this
morning at 4341 vs Matt's 4286. Please vote, it's the final day to push
an electric over the top once more. It's a tough battle going on.
Yesterday, we over-powered them, but at night, the votes started racking
up for that quick stang. Let's try to beat them with a day of strong voting.
See Ya......John Wayland
>
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Here is a link to an article published in the Pasadena
Weekly paper.
http://www.pasadenaweekly.com/article.php?id=3581&IssueNum=26
TiM
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Could you elaborate a little more on that? If high currents are not good and
low currents decrease the efficiency, what is the most efficient current at
what rpm for the motor?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 6:13 PM
Subject: RE: Best cruising RPM
> Hi there,
>
> in terms of the ADC motor, the motor runs most efficiently at around
> 3700-3800 rpm. The efficiency really depends on the current through the
> motor. i have discovererd through my thesis that high currents are not good
> and low currents decrease the efficiency of the motor.
>
> Cheers
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Seth,
How many people were at the WKTEC movie? Here in Denver I attended a
preview that had the theater packed (600 or so seats). Of course it was
a sneak preview for the Denver film society and it was free. I did have
about 50 people gathered around the S10 asking intelligent questions
afterward though. And the theater manager asked if I could bring the
S10E by at the official opening in Denver on July 14. All in all, a
good experience at WKTEC in Denver.
Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: Seth Rothenberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 1:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Seth's Mastercard commercial
$21 two tickets (for mom and me) to WHTEC
$17 parking list price on the board (NYC)
$10 overcharge for parking that needs to be
discussed with the Consumer Affairs dept.
Reactions to the movie (just two):
Priceless
I made a badge for my shirt pocket that said "I'm and EV Owner"
There were a sad number of people in the
theater, so I could only catch 1 on the way out..
Reaction one (older lady, upon seeing my "EV owner" badge):
Bravo!
Reaction of my mother to the lady
"I'm so proud of him"
(Now I just have to live up to their expectations
and get the car working)
Two thoughts about the movie:
1. The message came across that the President,Big Oil and Big Auto,
all want us to believe with all our hearts in the FUTURE tech...
so that the PRESENT is drowned in oil.
(BTW, which has more PLASTIC in it, an ICE car or an EV? :-)
2. One thing that was missing. Someone mentioned the
dismal picture the movie painted. Perhaps there could have
been more examples of EV conversions that are being done;
A minute or two (or more) about Jerry Dycus.
(or is his work a secret? :-)
PS were any of the people on this list in the movie?
I didn't catch every subtitle.
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Jon Glauser wrote:
Hello everyone,
I'm working out a setup for a car. I need a little advice on the
configuration. What are some opinions? I'm mostly chosing the battery
set right now. If necessary I can change controllers, but since I
already have this one I would be more convienient to keep it.
The hawker's are good batteries, but probably not what you want. The
only advantage you will get is they are cleaner (they are also more
powerful, but with a 400amp curtis you won't be able to take advantage
of that). Disadvantage is you will lose capacity (2/3 to 1/2 the
range), have a shorter lifespan and pay significantly more than you
would for a pack of flooded golf cart batteries.
If you are worried about keeping everything clean have a plastics shop
custom weld a HDPE plastic box for the batteries, and install a drain in
the bottom and exhaust vent in the top. Cleaning up is just a matter of
spraying the batteries off with a hose. The plastic box with also
reduce corrison on nearby metal parts.
Mark Farver
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Thanks John...
I needed that pat on the back this morning...
Michael... John is going to be having my moronic support this evening in
Portland in his attempt at getting thrown off the track by going to fast for
his lack of Roll cage.
So...don't trash those of us who have tried to do the best with what was
handed us.
A pair of 9 inch rear ends and a pair of TH400 trannies and we would not
have had any real drive train issues on Gp But.. it would have been a
totally different EV..Not a hacked old Mail truck like the TV producers
wanted.
I would like to see REAL Gas guy racers... try to even get a EV running let
alone make it from one end of the track to the other. There is a Heck of a
lot of stuff that a Gas racer has no clue about in Electrics.
And we don't have 50 years of drive train support and catalogs full of every
known or concieved of go fast widget.. Alot of this stuff gets thought up as
we actually do it. That's the fun part, thinking out of the box and then
making it happen.
Oh yea I used to run a Turbo Capri, and a 70 Doge Charger with a 383 4
speed. So.. I do have some ICE time under my belt. So I have been in Both
camps.
Cobra??? How can I help???
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: Hi all this is the guy with the electric cobra project :)
> Hello Michael and All,
>
> Michael T Kadie wrote:
>
> >Just thought I'd sign up and introduce myself.
> >
> >
> >
>
> From one hi pro electric dude to another, welcome, Michael! Your Cobra
> plans sound great. Please, keep us all informed on how this project
> progresses. I read the blog at the Cobra discussion group and couldn't
> help but notice this comment from Greg:
>
> >Do it right though! Did you ever see that "Sucking Amps" show or
> whatever it was called on TLC or Discovery or something? >One of the
> biggest clusterf...s I've ever seen. What a pack of complete morons.
>
> While I completely agree with his 'Do it right', It stops there. The
> folks he's calling 'complete morons' would be none other than Father
> Time, Rod Wilde, Otmar Ebenhoech, and Rich 'Madman' Rudman, four names
> synonymous with world records, quality craftsmanship, extreme EV
> knowledge, and cutting edge design.
>
> Father Time is a long time friend of mine who's built world record
> setting electric drag bikes (one ran 12.4 @ 100 mph) so meticulously
> assembled, they've won awards at hot rod type car shows.
>
> Rod Wilde built and drove Maniac Mazda to its MC/B world record of a
> stunning 11.2 @ 108 mph, a record that still stands as the world's
> quickest street-bodied electric car.
>
> Otmar Ebenhoech designs and builds the mighty Zilla motor controllers
> that most all record holding DC powered EVs run, and, his 'California
> Poppy' electric 914 Porsche set a world record for the SC/B class of
> street legal class running mid 13s.
>
> Rich Rudman is a seasoned EV drag racer who just happens to operate
> (with Joe Smalley) Manzanita Micro, makers of state of the art chargers
> that most all full bore EV drag racers use at the strip and at home.
>
> To call highly respected EV pioneers the likes of these guys, 'complete
> morons' is laughable, and only makes Greg look like one. In fact
> Michael, you'll more than likely be talking with each one of these guys
> (if you're smart) about the best drive train design, the best
> motor-tranny combo, the best controller, and the best charger as you
> sketch out your own vision for a high performance EV. Finally, Greg
> needs to remember, this was reality TV, not real life. Feel free to post
> the above to the Cobra list, if you so desire.
>
> Again Michael, welcome to the EVDL. When you end up with a scorching
> fast electric Cobra, while Greg drools over it, just tell him you bought
> state of the art components and learned everything from a bunch of morons.
>
> See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
>
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It wasn't Michael! It was some other poster on the Cobra forum. Not
to worry, Michael obviously has seen the light.
Michael: I figure a Cobra kit with a stock mustang motor would have
about 10 lb / rwhp -- that's fast! You can reliably and cost
effectively get it as low as about 5 to 7 lbs / rwhp -- very awesome.
Go with a big block and get it as low as maybe 3 hp / rwhp. My 15 lb
/ rwhp already scares me sometimes, I can't even imagine driving a
Cobra. Now, if you are rich, you could buy the A123 lithium batteries
and get down to about 4 lb / rwhp, for the same weight car! Even with
lead acid batteries you could probably get down to about 13 lbs / hp.
With that great aerodynamic body I'd vote you run it on the Salt
Flats someday -- I'd bet you'd be the world's fastest street legal
electric. I'd better get cracking so I can grab that record while it
is still easy to grab. :) (Only 134 mph so far).
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Michael... John is going to be having my moronic support this
> evening in
> Portland in his attempt at getting thrown off the track by going to
> fast for his lack of Roll cage.
>
> So...don't trash those of us who have tried to do the best with
> what was handed us. ...
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Hey all
Well it "was" close! Poor Matt, he was the first to list his EV there (or at
least had the idea) and he's sat and watched both John and Rod scream on past
him (Hmmm, kind of like at the track...)
Man I feel like I'm bailing water from the Titanic (with a tea spoon) here.
8^ P
Hey Matt, maybe you should try building a fast EV and re-posting! Maybe more
people would vote for you instead of just John, Shawn, and me!! LMAO!!!
Oh thats right you do you have the fastest street electric east of the
Florida boarder, or something like that, as you were quoting at Joliet! Hows
that line working at the local Hooters for you by the way, hehehe!!!
Oh well, maybe they'll grandfather you in as an honorary notable or something
like that someday.
I could of sworn I saw you loose a vote when I hit refresh this morning EVen.
It's just to sad 8..^ (
I know, shut up and go build a motor! Yes I know I don't even have a racer
yet, but give me a year or two and I will, and I'll post it at drag times and
pass you by as you sit there in second place 8^ P
You know I love you, just had to stick my finger in your eye and have a
little fun, hey maybe next year! My daughter just came in asking whats so
funny I'm laughing so hard 8^ )
Have a great weekend all
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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