EV Digest 5679
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Tesla Talk, was Re: WashPost Tesla Article
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Clutchless S10
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Tesla Talk, was Re: WashPost Tesla Article
by "David C. Navas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Fixed the truck, in a fashion
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) What if....
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Tesla Talk, EV possibiities, selling
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Tesla Talk, was Re: WashPost Tesla Article
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Even a single battery is impressive
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Clutchless S10
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Clutchless S10
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Tesla Motors Performance Comparision
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) EV parts
by "rcboyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Clutchless S10
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Solectria Force
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) NEWSFLASH: New Jersey DOES allow EV's
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Even a single battery is impressive
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Chelsea Sexton to appear at July 29 Florida premiere of WKtEC!
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
EVerybody's talking about the TeslaMobile, or Lotus Whatever? Seems that no
matter what somebody comes up with, it will be dissed. I have seen alot of shit
flow under the bridge in 40 years of EVin'. I sure hope the Nay sayers are
wrong. The Tesla, IF it is real, looks promising, the guys at Tesla seem to
have their act together, I hope?Car? Smar,! Who cares what kind of CAR. It is
the E drivetrain on trial here, anyhow. IF they can actuall stuff 250 miles of
juice into a nice looking car. THATS the issue here. If they were to put that
driveline in an 82 Rabbit, who would EVen look at it?They made a wise choice to
show it off in a fancy car. Pull up anywhere in the Red one in the Website and
heads will turn. Guyz in tricked out Gas rigs will want to run ya at the stop
light, it LOOKS fast, just standing still.
Yada Yada Yada! I Like it. No I'm not ready to BUY one, anymore than A
Porsche or Rolls Royce, a VW Phaeton, Now WHATTHEHELL was VW thinking when they
made those?They were asking more than a mere 80 grand I think. And how many did
they sell? I'll bet they solved the non heat issue of early V-Dubs?But This?
How many people actually know what a Lotus Elise LOOKS like?Not me. But I'm not
into CARS per say, but Electrics. The Tesla will be the darling of the Celeb
Set, I hope? So and So pulling up to the Southhampton Beach Club, in NY , in
the summer, with the top down. The car will be in the pix, too. It will say" So
an' So in his Electric Car"THAT'S what I want to hear. Didn't they do that in
Plain Jane Prei, too? Cruise the Hollywood Blvd in it?Or where EVer the celebs
hang out on the Left Coast?
All this will put EV's in the common folks minds, AND 4 bux a gal gas. It's
3.99 ,at my local inconvenience store, where ya stand in line while a simple?
lottery transaction takes the full attention of EVERY store person, while you
STAND forever, wanting to buy a paper., and need change. OK that's for Hy Test,
Regular is 3. 44 or so. No I don't buy my gas there for CARS, a few gal for my
mowers and for cleaning stuff, paint brushes etc. Damn State should put and pay
their OWN people to collect this tax for the mathmatically declined! HMHO.
I sure wish Tesla well, that they can pull it off!!! And IF we can get the
Freedom EV up and going. Now THAT'S a vehicle for the common man, no refugees
from Google with deep pockets here. A sinple Yahell Group web site, as a
funding vehicle. I guess I'll be digging out my checkbook? Jerry DID post a
progress report here. A shamless time to come to the aid of your startup EV
program. it is a big ocean, out there for ALL EV players.Teslas to Freedom's
and a few Sparrows in between. Now if Renasance Motors could get going again?
Throw in a few Smart Cars, too. And we haven't given up with the Sunrise! All
it takes is bux!Maybe if Tesla sells a few more bux will be freed up.
Volture,...... I mean ,Venture Capitalists will come out of the woodwork?
The Movie WKtEC will possably get folks talking and believing. Gees! EVen
my sons, all gas motorheads, are starting to come around! ASsking about EV's
more an' more. Well, they haven't asked about a 9 inch motor and a glider
YET?But they don't roll their eyes and wander when I talk EV's anymore. Kid's
got an engineless 76 Vette that isn't doing anything with. Hmmm, but Vettes are
HEAVY, aren't they? Massive frame could weld lots of battery wracks aboard.Tell
me a Vette would be a poor choice for an EV.Or would it? None in the EV Album,
yet.
Mt two Tesla's Worth.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Goldstein
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 6:43 AM
Subject: WashPost Tesla Article
Here is that Tesla article in today's Washington Post, not too
bad, Snip-a-bit
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Craig,
You did not say if you want a single-gear setup or
that you still want to be able to use the gearbox.
The US Electricar S10 has a manual gearbox locked in 2nd
and the AC motor connects straigth into the gearbox.
There probably is some adapter and I have seen the adapter
plate for the mounting, but it may be that the motor axle
is directly connected to the gearbox input shaft.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ralph Merwin
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 7:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Clutchless S10
Craig,
FYI, Paul Wallace has an S10 EV that didn't have a clutch when he first
bought it. After driving it without a clutch for a while he went through
some effort to install a clutch. His main complaint was the difficulty
when shifting, especially downshifting.
Ralph
Mueller, Craig M writes:
>
> I am working on an S10 conversion and would like to eliminate the
> clutch. What short of coupling have folks used to accomplish this?
>
> - Craig Mueller
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> No, this is not a car to drive from San Francisco to
> Disneyland.
Uh yes it is. If it fully recharges in 3.5 hours I'd happily drive it to
Bakersfield. Have lunch. See a Movie and then do the last 135 miles total
to Disneyland. Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Seems that no matter what somebody comes up with, it will be dissed.
Bob -- I'm with you on this one.
I don't know if it is the curse of Cronus or not, but it certainly
seems like it sometimes.
Tesla is our child. Our interests, our letter writing, our money
spent -- not directly, of course! It is one of the results of
years, for some of you decades, in the pursuit of an electric car
that you can actually purchase. Well, it looks like you'll be able
to do that soon. I certainly wish them the best of luck -- just as
I wish the Prius hackers the best of luck, just as I wish Gadget
the best of luck, and just as I hope that other entrants will
make their mark as well.
A lot of us can't afford that car. Some of us can, but can't justify
paying that much for a car. A few will. Should we pour scorn on
those that can and do?
I think they'll sell heaps of them, and I certainly hope they do.
The money spent will be invested to bring increasingly affordable,
purpose-built vehicles to market. The interest it raises will filter
down to everyone else pursuing this market. I fail to see how that
wouldn't be in our interests, just as I fail to see how the Roadster
isn't a giant leap forward from the much more ridiculously expensive
Fetish.
One step at a time, and one market at a time -- there is more than
enough room for a diversity of products, capabilities, and
pricepoints.
-Dave
PS: And I'm terribly jealous of those of you that have gotten time
with the car -- seems like a real scream. :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First off, I'm tired. I've been working under this thing for 5 hours, I
was completely covered in filth, oil, Dexron III, and probably some sort
of grease.
Second: I fixed the truck.
The first problem is this: GM built this truck out of whatever parts
were at hand. Thus it has a differential with a large diameter barrel
for the U joint, and the extended drive shaft uses the small diameter
barrels.
Now, the only large/small U joint you can get will have small C clips.
Which will be a *BIT* too far out to fit in the differential. DO NOT USE
THESE! The pressure on the U joint will wreck the seals, then the needle
bearings will fall out.
Ask me how I know...
However the one with the large C clips which are spaced closer in is too
short in the span of the short diameter barrels. So it will slop around
with the lock washers installed. DO NOT USE THIS EITHER! The lack of
pressure on the caps of the U joint will cause it to float slightly and
wreck the seals. Then the needle bearings yada yada ya...
What you need to do is buy both types, swap the caps, and build your OWN
U JOINT! HURRAY!. This will fit perfectly with no slip, slop, or
anything wrong.
Then I dropped the car, re-filled the transmission with Dexron III (yes,
that is what the manual says to use), then took it for a drive. Once
again, clunk clunk clunk.
I was about ready to just give up and join the navy. Instead I put the
truck back on the jackstands and checked the rear drive train. Raised
one wheel, floored it. No sounds. Raised the other wheel, floored it,
ticking sound.
A ha. Something in the differential? Nope, it was coming from the middle
of the car again.
So I got the wife, went under it, she floored it, and I saw the problem...
The battery box lid under the cab was too close to the drive line. When
you floor it, the motor shifts slightly, and the drive line would hit
the lid. Click, click, click....
That was the sound. For a temp fix I unbolted one side of the box from
the frame, removed a spacer, then re-bolted it. This moved the box
slightly and sure enough: No more ticking. This also explains why the
ticking would happen only in forward and not reverse (because the drive
line torques the opposite way in reverse of course).
That explains a lot. Now for the big question: Why?
However I now know the story of this truck. It would make a loud ticking
from day one. The DPO (dreaded previous owner) thought it was the drive
shaft, and replaced the front and rear U joints. This is why the truck
has the nice circlip type joints instead of the plastic caps.
However when the DPO did this, she used the wrong rear joint and forced
it in. The ticking was still there and they gave up. When I drove it,
the rear joint's seals gave way, the needle bearings left the building,
and so forth.
Maybe I need new motor mounts. But I think I will let someone else do
this. At least I know where the problem is, and can work from there.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What if we all pledged to kokam to replace our packs with Li-Poly on an
agreed date and price.
How many cells would we buy using 100AH. What kind of deal could we strike?
This assumes we have the BMS issues sorted out.
Or, nicad, Or Nimh. Just how many KWH do we command?
I have 288V at 34ah (1hr rate 24 orbitals) or 9.7KWH max. Becasue of the
weight difference I would put in for at least twice that amount.
let us see: [EMAIL PROTECTED] is 2700 G. 1/2 my current pack would be 500lbs or
84 cells * 3.7 = 310.8 nominal so trim to 300V or 81 cells.
Currently that is $41958 but it is 30kw? or is it, what is the 1hr rate
on kokams? Even 1/2 that would be a streatch, but if I used 2/3 of that
and the price was negotiated to 1/2 what it is now....<14K. Now that is
something I would consider (if longevity issues are solidified)
How does the picture look for NiMh?, Li-ion?, nicad?
The Difference I see with this approach from an OEM agreement would be,
we would all mostly be satisfied, what would they sell the next year?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The cars are out there ....
http://tinyurl.com/mqv6x
where are the buyers ??
No movement until $5.00 gas which is when ...next year ??
It's always next year
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> > Steve, agree with your points.
> > I did want to make an interesting point that the classic VW bug
is still
> > produced in Mexico. It can't be imported because it fails US
emissions,
> > which the air quality in mexico city proves. Converting those to
> > electric power and selling them could be a very inexpensive
brand new
> > electric car that would have an actual impact on the environment.
> > Jack
>
> Huh? The classic Volkswagen Bug hasn't been produced in Mexico
since 2003.
> Anyway, I catch your drift. Find some kind of a long time produced
car and
> convert it. Should come with some decent safety features though.
>
> Michaela
>
> >
> > Steve Powers wrote:
> >> I read all the posts about the Tesla with mixed emotion. True,
it seems
> >> like a very nice EV, one of the best I have seen. I would go
as far as
> >> to say it is over-designed, 0 - 60 in 4 sec, 250 mile range.
Who can
> >> honestly say that they really need a car like that. And, then
I heard
> >> about the price, which of course I expected to be quite high.
In fact,
> >> it is. I have heard $80k, and even $90k from a different
source. Maybe
> >> they were trying to make a point that a high performance EV can
be made.
> >> But, we already knew that.
> >>
> >> At the same time, what they created is a car that to the
common man
> >> might as well be made out of "unobtanium." I'd say 99% of the
people
> >> on this list can't afford that car. I'd say 99.99% of the
general
> >> population can't afford that car, and if they could, they
wouldn't buy
> >> it. Why not? Those people, the ones with the money, are smart
> >> business people and they don't want a hassle. They want a car
backed
> >> by a major auto maker. Something like a Lexus, Mercedes,
BMW ... I
> >> truthfully don't see them buying the car. There are the select
few
> >> super rich who are also into the environment or unique cars.
Those
> >> few may buy one. I expect that I will never see one on the
road in my
> >> daily travels. And, I suspect that most of you never will
either.
> >> So, what was gained? Some good publicity, sure. Someone
proved a
> >> point, sure. Did it actually help get the common man any
closer to
> >> driving an EV, no. I have to say no. If anything, it makes
people
> >> think that EVs are super
> >> expensive. Still not pratical for the common man, people like
me.
> >>
> >> I've stated before what I think (this is my opinion, so feel
free to
> >> disagree) the common man is looking for, and still no one seems
to be
> >> pursuing that market.
> >> 1. Late model conversion - doesn't even have to be new
> >> 2. Sustainable - parts available for at least 10 years
> >> 3. Reasonable comforts, power brakes, AC
> >> 4. Automatic - the common man doesn't like to shift - it is
true
> >> 5. Performance similar to a typical 4 cyl car - Corolla /
Civic
> >> (better than a Force)
> >> 6. Cost - if well reconditioned, about $12 - $18k. Quality
of an 8-10
> >> year old used car - which would be easier to market - $8500 -
$10k.
> >> 7. Battery pack availability in the future and it can't cost a
> >> fortune. I think as far as the common man goes, Li Ion is
out. NiMH
> >> is still an option. Even decent lead acid is OK.
> >> 8. As far as battery maintenance goes, the common man
doesn't want to
> >> have to water them.
> >> 9. The car needs to be smart with a BMS because the common
man doesn't
> >> like hassles.
> >> 10. Range. A real world range - in real world traffic -
with hills
> >> and stop and go - 80 miles. 80 miles is more than sufficient.
If it
> >> is a parallel hybrid as well, it could have a 25 mile range in
EV mode
> >> as long as it has similar performance in EV and hybrid ICE mode.
> >> 11. It has to be backed by a major auto manufacturer so that
people
> >> can sleep well at night knowing that someone will be there if it
> >> breaks and needs repair.
> >> 12. Options of 2 door or 4 door.
> >>
> >> I think the above could be done, and a successful business
could be
> >> created catering to that market.
> >>
> >> What do I think will happen long term? Well, I think one of
the major
> >> auto makers will come out with a plug in hybrid dual purpose EV
and
> >> ICE car. I think the car will do at least 25 miles in EV mode
and
> >> will go 0-60 like the current small hybrids. I think it will be
> >> freeway capable. I think it will be Toyota, and I think it will
> >> happen within the next 3 - 5 years. I also think the common
man will
> >> buy that car. I think that like me, he / she commutes < 25
miles on
> >> work days and can run all electric monday - friday. And, I
think if
> >> he / she needs a little extra range one night or on a weekend
he or
> >> she will go and fuel it up. I think it is pratical and a decent
> >> approach to clocking some real EV miles. Everyone that I know
who has
> >> an EV also has an ICE car. If you put them in the same chasis,
you
> >> only have to register, insure, store, and maintain one car. I
see a
> >> real advantage to this. Sure, I want all electric cars on the
road, I
> >> bought 3 of them you know.
> >> And, I even started building a 4th. I am an EV guy, don't get
me
> >> wrong. But, to get them on the road, I think we need to take
that
> >> intermediate step. This is my opinion, so feel free to
disagree.
> >>
> >> In the meantime, I guess I'll just have to keep waiting until
someon
> >> sells their 10 year old conversion with a 80 mile real world
range for
> >> $8500. Trust me, anyone with that car, isn't selling it. And
if they
> >> were, it wouldn't be $8500. I do remember though when you
could buy a
> >> used Force for about $4000 and a Jet Electra for <$1500 and of
course
> >> my first EV for only $600. I paid about $3600 for the ETV-1,
not
> >> running. But, now that has all changed. I guess I'll just
have to
> >> dream on thinking I can still get that dream car for $8500.
> >>
> >>
> >> Still dreaming,
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>
> >> Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> What I saw when putting the pictures of the Lotus Elise 3
> >> and the Tesla side by side was that the CHASSIS seems to be
> >> identical, but the styling of the panels is quite different,
> >> so it seems to be "based on" the Elise 3 (Federal).
> >>
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/pictures/edatabase/viewpicture.
php?id=
> >> 116&image=chassis.jpg&title=chassis&album=laautoshow03
> >>
> >> and from the unveiling pictures:
> >> http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/autoblog/hirezpics/IMG_6894.jpg
> >> http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/20/tesla-roadster-unveiling-in-
santa-monica/
> >>
> >> Some striking details ARE the same, such as the striplights
next to
> >> the wheels on the fenders.
> >> But the design of the hood, the lines on the side, the scoop, a
lot of
> >> things
> >> are different, so it is not really a look-a-like.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Cor van de Water
> >> Systems Architect
> >> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> >> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> >> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> >> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> >> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Behalf Of nikki
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:07 PM
> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Subject: Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
> >>
> >>
> >> Apparently the Tesla is actually a Lotus - I have just been
listening
> >> to the BBC radio station in Norfolk and they just mentioned it
in the
> >> news!
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Nikki
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>
> >>
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Tesla Talk, was Re: WashPost Tesla Article
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> EVerybody's talking about the TeslaMobile, or Lotus
>Whatever? Seems that no matter what somebody comes up with,
>it will be dissed. I have seen alot of shit flow under the
>bridge in 40 years of EVin'. I sure hope the Nay sayers are
>wrong. The Tesla, IF it is real, looks promising, the guys
>at Tesla seem to have their act together, I hope?Car? Smar
>,! Who cares what kind of CAR. It is the E drivetrain on
>trial here, anyhow. IF they can actuall stuff 250 miles of
>juice into a nice looking car. THATS the issue here. If
>they were to put that driveline in an 82 Rabbit, who would
>EVen look at it?They made a wise choice to show it off in a
>fancy car. Pull up anywhere in the Red one in the Website
>and heads will turn. Guyz in tricked out Gas rigs will want
>to run ya at the stop light, it LOOKS fast, just standing
>still.
I think an EV sportcar is an excellent choice to
start an EV company on as I've been advocating here for yrs.
The, there isn't a big market for them is a red
hering as just .01% is thousands of EV's.
They of course have big time VC's and $40mil to
start with but it's no surprise that hey are already about
sold out of their first run if true. Just the EV-1 owners
would make a decent start up market.
And many here could buy an aero, looks modified
kitcar for your own brand, ready to roll except the engine,
trans for under $15k, another $15 for a hot EV drive, macked
out interior, waylandized drive train and you are out there
with the big boys, selling them for $50-60k with $20-30k
profits.
After the Freedom EV is rolling in production,
money coming in, I plan on building a 4wh EV sportcar
similar to the Telsa though roomier as my second product.
>
> The Movie WKtEC will possably get folks talking and
>believing. Gees! EVen my sons, all gas motorheads, are
>starting to come around! ASsking about EV's more an' more.
>Well, they haven't asked about a 9 inch motor and a glider
>YET?But they don't roll their eyes and wander when I talk
>EV's anymore. Kid's got an engineless 76 Vette that isn't
>doing anything with. Hmmm, but Vettes are HEAVY, aren't
>they? Massive frame could weld lots of battery wracks
>aboard.Tell me a Vette would be a poor choice for an EV.Or
>would it? None in the EV Album, yet.
No, they are actually fairly light but stromg at about
23-2500lbs without engine, 33-3400 with engine, ect
depending on which yrs. A 9", 300 vdc of orbitals, a HV
Zilla and it will put many ICE cars to shame!! Done nicely,
could be turned for some really good profits. Their are some
good bolt on body panel kits to make it look different,
better too.
>
> Mt two Tesla's Worth.
Why did they name it Telsa? A name noted for scams
for so many yrs.
Jerry Dycus
>
> Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dissed? Pour Scorn? I didn't hear anything like that, where did you?
Should we not put forward other ideas and approaches, and just be
cheerleaders for Tesla? I think we all wish them luck and success!
Let them make more millions for themselves, I have no problem with that,
but don't ask me to ADOPT Tesla as my child.
Maybe Bill Gates can be tapped to take a different approach, fund seed
money to a 100 small guys, some of them will succeed. Give Jerry Dycus
$100K for example. Let a thousand flowers bloom, sprinkle some rain on
the desert.
Jack
David C. Navas wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Seems that no matter what somebody comes up with, it will be dissed.
Bob -- I'm with you on this one.
I don't know if it is the curse of Cronus or not, but it certainly
seems like it sometimes.
Tesla is our child. Our interests, our letter writing, our money
spent -- not directly, of course! It is one of the results of
years, for some of you decades, in the pursuit of an electric car
that you can actually purchase. Well, it looks like you'll be able
to do that soon. I certainly wish them the best of luck -- just as
I wish the Prius hackers the best of luck, just as I wish Gadget
the best of luck, and just as I hope that other entrants will
make their mark as well.
A lot of us can't afford that car. Some of us can, but can't justify
paying that much for a car. A few will. Should we pour scorn on
those that can and do?
I think they'll sell heaps of them, and I certainly hope they do.
The money spent will be invested to bring increasingly affordable,
purpose-built vehicles to market. The interest it raises will filter
down to everyone else pursuing this market. I fail to see how that
wouldn't be in our interests, just as I fail to see how the Roadster
isn't a giant leap forward from the much more ridiculously expensive
Fetish.
One step at a time, and one market at a time -- there is more than
enough room for a diversity of products, capabilities, and
pricepoints.
-Dave
PS: And I'm terribly jealous of those of you that have gotten time
with the car -- seems like a real scream. :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I started installing the batteries into my rear pack today. Optima D34
YellowTops with regulators installed on top (with a thermal and
electrical insulating buffer). The final two are reasonably
inaccessible, so I wired their regulators and battery cables before
putting them in the box.
The box is insulated, for safety. I didn't short it that way.
No, I managed to get around the terminal covers and short the cable ends
together. Nice, impressive sparks, with a *crack* loud enough for my
wife to hear through the garage door. Is that smell ozone or vaporized
lead? Maybe I'd better not breathe it. And my regulator now has a
glowing red LED. According to the docs, that's the "undervoltage"
indicator. Did I actually draw enough amps in that quarter second to
make the voltage sag? Have I ruined my reg? The heat sink isn't even warm.
Okay, so I don't deserve a moniker like "Plasma Boy" or anything. But
even a single Optima is enough to make an impression.
Judebert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Craig
He sends a tool to line it up with that works great and there is no
vibration what so ever.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mueller, Craig M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 9:51 PM
Subject: RE: Clutchless S10
Thanks Tom,
I would think that might be hard to center-up & eliminate
vibration. Do you notice any vibration, or is there some way that the
adaptor centers to the clutch plate?
- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Carpenter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 7:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Clutchless S10
Craig,
The one that ev america made for me was to use my old clutch disc with
the
facings removed and bolted to an adator to a hub on the motor. Uses the
orginal hub in the disc to fit on the input shaft of the transmission.
Works great for me.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mueller, Craig M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 6:05 PM
Subject: Clutchless S10
I am working on an S10 conversion and would like to eliminate the
clutch. What short of coupling have folks used to accomplish this?
- Craig Mueller
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7/19/2006
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--- Begin Message ---
how long does it take to shift. I ask because I have an S-15 86 pickup that has
been electric all it's life. Recently I lost hte clutch master cylinder and
have been driving without the clutch a little but in heavy traffic I really
can't shift from 2-3 where I need to because it takes too long. It feels like
_Forever!_ but it probably is only 3-4 seconds.. Which when going 0-50 is well
forever.
Tom Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Craig
He sends a tool to line it up with that works great and there is no
vibration what so ever.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mueller, Craig M"
To:
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 9:51 PM
Subject: RE: Clutchless S10
> Thanks Tom,
>
> I would think that might be hard to center-up & eliminate
> vibration. Do you notice any vibration, or is there some way that the
> adaptor centers to the clutch plate?
>
> - Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Carpenter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 7:38 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Clutchless S10
>
> Craig,
>
> The one that ev america made for me was to use my old clutch disc with
> the
> facings removed and bolted to an adator to a hub on the motor. Uses the
>
> orginal hub in the disc to fit on the input shaft of the transmission.
>
> Works great for me.
>
> Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mueller, Craig M"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 6:05 PM
> Subject: Clutchless S10
>
>
>>I am working on an S10 conversion and would like to eliminate the
>> clutch. What short of coupling have folks used to accomplish this?
>>
>> - Craig Mueller
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date:
> 7/19/2006
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: 7/19/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
About the Tesla electric sports car, Reverend Gadget wrote:
The car is fast. Not Gone Postal fast but fast
none the less.
Bob Rice responded:
Comments; What do ya mean "not Gone Postal" fast? Hell, Teslamobile
would be White Zombie fast, run rings around GP.
Then this, from Mike Willmon:
Yes but take Plasma Boy's White Zombie that will do 0-60 in that time and duplicate it.
Thanks Bob and Mike. Yeah, I thought it was funny that the Rev. left
White Zombie out of his comparison, too. Maybe it's because the Rev. has
never seen White Zombie in person and thus has never ridden in it or
seen it eat muscle cars for lunch. Perhaps he's also not seen the videos
at the Plasma Boy web site. I do think he's been around GP however, and
he might have also gone for a ride in it. The instantaneous lunge from
the butt loads of torque coming from twin 8s and a single 9 with 40
powerful Exide Orbitals making the juice in Gone Postal, has gotta feel
like a freight train has slammed into your backside! Sob....though I've
been in, under, and all around GP, I've never had a ride :-(
Back to White Zombie....Looking at how it pulls away from cars known to
run 0-60 in about 4 seconds, it appears White Zombie's 0-60 is closer to
3.5 seconds. The several 405 hp 2005 Vette C6s we've raced against do
0-60 in 4.2 seconds and before the 1/8th mile marker (by then White
Zombie is clipping along at 86-87 mph) where WZ is doing about 60 mph,
the Vette is at least 3-4 car lengths behind. If a car that does 0-60 in
just 4.2 seconds is lagging behind by 3-4 car lengths when White Zombie
is already at 60 mph, how quick of a 0-60 is that? We've also raced
against 300 hp Subaru STi WRXs that do 0-60 in 4.7 seconds, and again,
at around where WZ is hitting 60 mph, this vehicle is 5 car lengths
behind. The model year Viper I've raced against had a rated 0-60 time of
4 seconds flat...at around 60 mph in WZ the Viper too, is several car
lengths behind. Really quick vehicles, like high 10 second cars and low
eleven second cars are known to hit 60 mph in about 3 seconds flat, and
White Zombie holds its own with these machines up to about 50-55 mph, so
again, the 3.5 second 0-60 estimate seems right on.
I bet the $$ cost might be less than half of the $80k price tag of the Tesla if
made in production numbers. Blowing the doors off a Mustang GT in a Datsun
1200 would seem much more gratifying to me, and cheaper too.
Gratifying is a perfect word :-) It's bad enough to get beat by a 34
year old econobox Datsun...it's even worse getting beat by one powered
by batteries that jerks the front tires off the ground!
The Tesla electric sports car seems very well executed. Unlike the kit
car tZero with hop-over non-functioning doors and a child's toy
appearance, this is a real car. Unlike the skeleton 'thing' Wright Speed
being foisted on the public that's more Erector Set than car, this is a
real car. Yes, it's way expensive for most folks, but compared to the
price of a tZero or the skeleton, it's a bargain! I've not yet seen one
close up, but going by the reports coming in and the clear photos
available, the folks at Tesla Motors seemed to have done an excellent
job at crafting a real car. Hopefully, after showcasing this high end
high performance electric sports car and bringing in cash flow from well
heeled Jay Leno types, they'll turn their attention to affordable sedans
in the $15-$20K price range...if, they can get the price down on the
lithium battery pack! A smaller pack in such a sedan would lower the
cost of said pack and still give perhaps a 140 mile range per charge.
How would a drag race between White Zombie and the Tesla turn out? I
imagine WZ would take it on launch up to and through 60 mph. I then
imagine I'd hear the whine of a high revving AC motor coming past me at
around 70 mph, then I think it would be all taillights for me to look
at! My guess, is that the Tesla could run an 11.8 or so ET @ 115 mph. Of
course, if we can solve the reoccurring high speed vibration thing,
White Zombie would probably dip into the high eleven second region.
Maybe I should challenge them to a grudge match race at PIR next month?
I wouldn't mind getting beat by the future :-)
I wish Tesla Motors success!
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor,
When you say 'locked in 2nd', do you just mean that it is shifted into 2nd and
the gear shift is disconnected so that it cannot be shifted? Or is it a more
mechanical type of locking?
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 3:10 PM
Subject: RE: Clutchless S10
> Craig,
>
> You did not say if you want a single-gear setup or
> that you still want to be able to use the gearbox.
>
> The US Electricar S10 has a manual gearbox locked in 2nd
> and the AC motor connects straigth into the gearbox.
> There probably is some adapter and I have seen the adapter
> plate for the mounting, but it may be that the motor axle
> is directly connected to the gearbox input shaft.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 19 Jul 2006 at 7:01, Mike Phillips wrote:
> The USE vehicles have the same characteristics you just described, but
> go 3-7k miles on a pack. They came with Hawkers.
>
> If the Solectria inverter lets the batterys get down to 10.5v each,
> then it's letting the batterys discharge far too low for a lead acid
> pack to give good life.
>
> It's an easy guess that [Solectrias] don't go far on a pack with the same
> technology as the USE vehicles.
They use a lower powered drive - about 34kW max. Earlier ones were fitted
with 28kW and the very early ones with 21kW drives.
Solectria tried Hawker Genesis batteries about 10 years ago. To my
knowledge, most cars were not fitted with any kind of module-level charge
control. They used two parallel strings of 144v each. They very quickly
gave up on the Hawkers; service life was poor and cost per mile was
astronomical.
They got best results from Sonnenschein and East Penn (Sonnenschein licensed
design) gel batteries, which as I said typically last 4-6 years. Around
15,000 miles on a pack isn't unusual, afaik, but a survey might indeed be
interesting.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been going in this vicious circle with NJ's MVC
for 6 months (not continuously, I have a life :-)
Special Titles said they have not been authorized to
register EV's. So I complained to the Governor, and
I got a letter from the Commissioned of Transportation,
saying YES WE DO, call Special Titles. um, circle 1.
Then I heard that Specially Constructed Vehicle,
you can bring receipts for the PARTS (i.e., no Title)
which is my other problem.
So I called Special Titles, and they said NO again
to EVs...and the PROCEDURE for title with "insufficient evidence"
includes bringing in a running vehicle, and, of course,
EV's are not running vehicles in NJ...I asked
what about the LETTER? So she said, call Agency Operations.
The clerk there confirmed the NO answer...
I asked what about the LETTER? She said, Can you Fax it to me?
A few days, I call, it's on Mike Klewin's desk, but
he is not at his desk...patience, Luke, patience....
Friday, I get a call, "We are going to notify Special Titles
that they are authorized to register EVs, and they will
call you Monday to tell you your procedure (title missing and all)."
This is very exciting....
...AND I heard that low-speed NEVs HAVE been approved in NJ...
(I was clear, I am not making a NEV, I said Highway-going ZEV)...
....and this isn't even the most exciting news from Friday....
(but some things have to be held for the next episode :-)
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The red LED is undervoltage memory.
It shows that battery has experienced an event pulling the terminal voltage
under the lowbat threshold.
Charge it enough to get the green LED to come on and the problem should
clear itself.
You can also clear it by pulling the regulator fuse and reinstalling it.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jude Anthony" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 5:05 AM
Subject: Even a single battery is impressive
> I started installing the batteries into my rear pack today. Optima D34
> YellowTops with regulators installed on top (with a thermal and
> electrical insulating buffer). The final two are reasonably
> inaccessible, so I wired their regulators and battery cables before
> putting them in the box.
>
> The box is insulated, for safety. I didn't short it that way.
>
> No, I managed to get around the terminal covers and short the cable ends
> together. Nice, impressive sparks, with a *crack* loud enough for my
> wife to hear through the garage door. Is that smell ozone or vaporized
> lead? Maybe I'd better not breathe it. And my regulator now has a
> glowing red LED. According to the docs, that's the "undervoltage"
> indicator. Did I actually draw enough amps in that quarter second to
> make the voltage sag? Have I ruined my reg? The heat sink isn't even
warm.
>
> Okay, so I don't deserve a moniker like "Plasma Boy" or anything. But
> even a single Optima is enough to make an impression.
>
> Judebert
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to all EV enthusiasts in Florida!
Chelsea Sexton will be joining us for the Florida gala premiere of Sony
Pictures Classics' film "Who Killed the Electric Car?" in Boca Raton on
Saturday evening, July 29 at:
Regal Shadowood 16 Cinemas
9889 West Glades Rd.
Boca Raton, FL 33434
tel: 800-326-3264
The theater is in the shopping center on the northeast corner of Glades Rd.
and Rte. 441 (State Rte. 7) in West Boca.
The Florida Electric Auto Association (www.floridaeaa.org) will be
displaying the following four EVs in the pedestrian courtyard immediately in
front of the theater entrance:
1) Matt Graham's famous "Joule Injected" electric Nissan 240SX, which is
only the third full-bodied electric car in history to exceed 100mph in
the quarter-mile drag race,
2) a brand new, stunning, electric Lamborghini Diablo,
3) an equally exciting electric Porsche 959,
4) a Toyota RAV4-EV.
The EV exhibition in front of the theater will run from 5pm to 7pm, where we
will be handing out the very nicely done tri-fold flyers and 4x6 "Not Dead
Yet" cards produced by Plug-in America (www.pluginamerica.com).
The movie will start sometime between 7:00pm and 7:20pm, to be determined by
Sony Pictures in the next few days. You should be at the theater no later
than 7:00pm.
Chelsea Sexton will conduct a Question & Answer session in the theater
immediately after the film, which will then be followed by a reception for
her with moviegoers, the media, and public officials at a nearby venue to be
announced during the Q&A session.
Chelsea will be available here in South Florida all day Friday, July 28 for
media interviews, which Sony Pictures, their South Florida publicist, and we
in the Florida EAA are working on lining up for her. If you have any media
contacts in Florida who you think might be interested in interviewing
Chelsea, could you please contact me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] TV,
radio, and print journalists who might have potential interest can view the
movie's trailer at: www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar.
All EV enthusiasts in Florida as well as those who are just curious and
want to learn more about EVs are cordially invited to join Chelsea and the
rest of us for this gala premiere of "Who Killed the Electric Car?". If you
are coming from Central Florida, North Florida, or the Gulf Coast and need
accommodations for Saturday night, I live 9 miles from the theater and
have 6 extra beds to spare, although I think one of them may already be
spoken for by Steve Clunn, not sure yet. You would have to be responsible
for your own transportation and meals, although you're welcome to rummage
through my fridge for anything that you think might be remotely edible.
Contact me off-list if you're coming long-distance and have such a need for
accommodations.
We anticipate a packed house, so you might want to think about buying your
tickets early, especially if you are coming from farther away.
See you all next Saturday evening, July 29!
Charles Whalen
Public Relations Director
Florida Electric Auto Association (www.floridaeaa.org)
Delray Beach, FL
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
