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In Aus and NZ, Fisher & Paykel washing machine motors are commonly used by DIY
wind generator makers because they too are direct drive.
They do have a slight cogging problem which inhibits their spinning in low wind.
How easily does the LG drum spin?
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Nick Austin
Sent: Tue 8/1/2006 3:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: My washer has regen!
On Mon, Jul 31, 2006 at 03:56:36PM -0700, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Nick Austin wrote:
> >Hey!
> >
> >I recently bought a new LG front loading washer. It's a fairly nice ~$800
> >device.
> ...
> I guess it really is hard to remove regen from these types
> >of motors! :)
>
> For that price they could include a CVT as well...
Well that's the best part, the smooth toque from the motor obviates the need
for a transmission! This bad boy is direct drive.
Thanks!
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Thread-Topic: My washer has regen!
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From: "Mark Fowler--
From: "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: motor break in
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:03:19 -0400
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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I bought a netgain WarP 9" motor for my Nissan 240sx. Do I have to do a
specific break in procedure for this motor? What would be the easiest and
safest way to test it out to make sure it works right? I was thinking of
hooking it up to a single 12V battery and just letting it run for a little
while.
Jody
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 10:27:28 -0400
From: Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Rattling noise, lurching motion
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Roger Stockton wrote:
>> If I accelerate over 25mph in 2nd, for instance, the faint
>> motor whine turns into a growl and rattle, and power cuts
>> back at intervals. This results in a slight lurching
>> motion. A gentle foot can sometimes get up to 30mph, but
>> not easily.
>>
>
> There is definitely something not right! My ADC 8" has no problem at
> all running up to around 40mph in 2nd in my car (and would probably be
> fine above that too, but like you, I too don't have my tach hooked up
> yet, so I shift to 3rd just to play it safe).
>
That's the kind of thing I was expecting.
> When I first got the car running, I had some noise as well, and it
> seemed that if I backed off the throttle slightly and then got back on
> it, I could accelerate "around" the problem spot. In my case, the noise
> was due to two things, a separated tranny mount (readily fixed), and the
> motor bell housing touching the inner fender/frame under certain
> conditions (fixed by placing a bit of vacuum hose between the endbell
> and frame to act as a cushion).
>
I'll see if I can find any of these. I wish I could put a camera down
there and watch it happen.
> However, there was never any lurching. This would suggest an
> internittent connection to me; I'd doublecheck to ensure there aren't
> any loose connections
I'm pretty sure I've fixed all those, but the problem persists. I'll
keep looking, as there are a few connections that are hard to reach if
the car isn't jacked up.
> and then wonder about arcing brushes - remember
> you do need to break them in (or take a comm stone to the motor).
>
This one comes used, and the brushes are already nice and concave; have
a look at http://judebert.com/wasted_youth/EV/brushes.html to see.
Could this be caused by improper advance?
Thanks,
Jude Anthony
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:44:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Drag on an electric motor
To: [email protected]
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The hazard I see in this configuration is quite the opposite. That is if
your truck has an automatic transmission. It is generally not a good idea to
tow
an automatic. Being pulled along with the electric motor with the engine off
would be the same as towing, as far at the transmission is concerned. I
would recommend checking the towing section of your trucks owners manual.
Ken
In a message dated 8/1/2006 7:24:33 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hello I am new to the group and have enjoyed reading all the knowledgeable
responses over the past few days. I was hoping to convert a 4WD truck to an
EV hybrid where I would drive the front wheels from electric and the rear
with gas. For in town driving I was planning to put it in neutral and thus
have a FWD EV. When I take a trip then I would shift into drive,
disconnecting the electric and have the range of my ICE.
Has anyone tried this? Do I need to have a neutral in the FWD? Can an EV
motor spin without applicable drag or will it exhibit significant drag
unless it is physically disconnected from the wheels? Any thoughts and
advice would be appreciated. Thank you
David J. Hrivnak
www.hrivnak.com
Personal Account WWJD?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 10:30:53 -0400
From: Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Joule Injected burnout at WKTEC and Florida Premier
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Shawn Waggoner (EV List) wrote:
> On the topic of the FL Premier, I'd personally like to thank everyone from
> the FL EAA that made it out for the event to help out and show off the cars,
> but I'd especially like to thank Charles Whalen, our FL EAA Public Relations
> Officer, for doing an awesome job of organizing the whole thing.
<snip much well-deserved praise>
Great job, Charles! Going to be here for the Winter Park opening on 8/11?
Jude Anthony
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:22:55 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Calling All EV'rs in the Fresno Area
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An Arrangement has been made with the UA-8 in Clovis for the opening
weekend of aug 4th and 5th(yes this weekend) to show our EV's during the
premier of "Who Killed the Electric car ".
Thanks go out to Heather Bernikoff and David Raboy for following thru
and makeing this a reality. (I just changed jobs and got swamped
lately). They got lobby time and stuff to hand out.
Mark, I know you got the motor cycle, but I Can't seem to send you
emails.
Anyone else in the area? (or driving thru the area :-; )
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "EV2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Winding across armature for rev limiting
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:23:55 -0500
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Say you had a contactor controller and a max of 96V.
Would you just adjust the winding (length) to pull a few amps at 96V?
Say 500 feet of 14ga.
Is there any kind of formula for this or is it just trial and error?
What if something broke and your motor went full bore at 72V?
Has anyone ever actually built a rev limiter like this?
Alex
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:49:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: SepEx Feasibility-
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Chet Fields" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
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Chet Fields wrote:
> I too would like to see a SepEx motor/controller combo in the range
> necessary for a commuter EV.
<RANTING ON>
You're out of luck. It hasn't to do with racing. Or, to quote from an
answer I received from a well established EV business:
"Our purpose is to sell available, reliable products and these new items
don't have those characteristics."
Among other things, I was asking for electrified a/c compressors and
serial isolators for the E-Meter.
Gee .. electric a/c compressors are really weird and new. We ain't
touchin' that kind of voodoo stuff. EVs with air conditioning? Might as
well ask for devils stuff like ..... regenerative brakes.
Well, it's the same company that writes in their FAQs:
"We DO NOT Recommend Regen systems"
But they do offer converted GEO Metros, their website lists a '96 for
16,500 USD. According to autotrader, I could get about 6 GEO metros for
the money and each and every one of it would come with air conditioning,
power steering and cruise control.
<RANTING OFF>
Seriously, I think it is going to be hard to find anybody willing to come
up with a workable SepEx solution. 76V is nice, but not enough for
anything bigger than, well, a Geo Metro :)
Michaela
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Drag on an electric motor
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 20:01:33 -0700
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That sounds like an interesting experiment, especially if your truck has a
manual tranny.
As a thought, does it have automatic hubs? My rigs all had manual hubs up
front, so I'm not quite sure how those work. All I know is my friend would
put his rig in 4WD and the front hubs would kick in... possibly electrically
or vacuum engaged? Otherwise they freewheeled, which saved on fuel... and
would disconnect the drag of the motor, in your case. (I think Warn makes
kits.) You could use the same switch to kick in the hubs and turn on the
motor... perhaps only if the ICE was shut down?
Actually, I'd wondered about doing that w/ one of the older Subaru Brats.
(Excepting they are FWD for the ICE.) They are light weight, have room for
batts in the box, and roll easily. I was thinking of using an overdrive
unit, however... so the motor could be disengaged when the ICE was being
used. Unfortunately, the "choice" ones are also quite old and hard to find
in decent condition.
It's not quite the same thing, but a local guy (HS teacher) has a pusher
trailer for his Rabbit. It's been converted to an EV, but has a short range.
So, for traveling, he hitches up the front end of an Rabbit to the trailer
hitch... and uses that to push his car along. It's an odd looking sight, but
works well enough. I assume his motor has regen, as he says he can charge
when he's being pushed by the ICE (except up hills)... otherwise he
disengages the tranny and rolls along.
> In a message dated 8/1/2006 7:24:33 PM Central Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Hello I am new to the group and have enjoyed reading all the knowledgeable
> responses over the past few days. I was hoping to convert a 4WD truck to
an
> EV hybrid where I would drive the front wheels from electric and the rear
> with gas. For in town driving I was planning to put it in neutral and
thus
> have a FWD EV. When I take a trip then I would shift into drive,
> disconnecting the electric and have the range of my ICE.
>
> Has anyone tried this? Do I need to have a neutral in the FWD? Can an EV
> motor spin without applicable drag or will it exhibit significant drag
> unless it is physically disconnected from the wheels? Any thoughts and
> advice would be appreciated. Thank you
> David J. Hrivnak
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 11:08:14 -0400
From: Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Drag on an electric motor
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I was considering this, but eventually decided against it. Just a bit
too complicated for my first conversion. I was only considering the
common series-wound motor.
On the first, simple question, no: the motor creates negligible drag if
you apply no power to it. In fact, this is known as a "road-coupled
hybrid".
On the rest of the complication, you've got two choices: leave it
connected directly to the wheels, geared for in-town speeds; or connect
it to the tranny.
If you leave it connected to the wheels, then it'll fly apart when you
push the car to high speeds with the gas engine. If you gear it lower,
you'll need a lot more amps -- and heat -- to start from zero, so you'll
be replacing your batteries and motor more often. (Not impossible, just
tough and/or expensive.)
If you connect it to the tranny, then you have to rig some way to
disconnect the engine and motor separately, otherwise the motor will be
fighting the engine's compression when the engine is off. You could let
them both run together, and that's what my brother is planning on doing
to his Suzuki Samurai. The problem there is matching the speeds, and
the lack of an electric-only option.
And of course, the Advanced DC motors we usually talk about will happily
rev up until they fly to pieces if you apply full power with no load.
I imagine a centrifugal clutch to disengage the motor at high wheel
speeds, with a twist-throttle on the stick to control the motor speed,
and a switch to ensure that it only works in neutral. I suppose you
could rig something to send the throttle "by wire" to either the engine
or the motor, depending on the stick or clutch pedal position.
Even if you manage to get all that, and you don't mind the separate
motor controls, where would you put the batteries?
I would really love to see someone do this, though. Especially if you
provide details of how you solve the speed-matching or control problems.
Good luck and best wishes,
Jude Anthony
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Hello I am new to the group and have enjoyed reading all the knowledgeable
> responses over the past few days. I was hoping to convert a 4WD truck to an
> EV hybrid where I would drive the front wheels from electric and the rear
> with gas. For in town driving I was planning to put it in neutral and thus
> have a FWD EV. When I take a trip then I would shift into drive,
> disconnecting the electric and have the range of my ICE.
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 10:41:12 -0400
From: Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: SepEx Feasibility
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Chet Fields wrote:
> I too would like to see a SepEx motor/controller combo in the range necessary
> for a commuter EV.
>
Seconded! All in favor, provide large amounts of money to someone like
Otmar. ;-)
> BTW, I was curious if there would be any legal problem if someone were to
> reverse engineer the Soleq EVCort's Controller. This controller to me seems
> perfect except for maybe adding more voltage/current flexibility. From what I
> understand the company does not exist anymore. What happens to a defunct
> company's intellectual property rights?
>
It gets sold along with the company's other properties, either to the
highest bidder or the debtors. Someone still owns the patent, if any.
Will they sue you? Can you find them? Proper reverse-engineering is
not illegal, but it's very hard to do properly. Probably easier to
track down whoever owns the patent and ask to license their tech, or
verify that the patent is expired.
Jude Anthony
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 20:11:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Advancing CW was Rattling noise, lurching motion
To: [email protected]
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Hey Jude, all
Couple of things, first the motor brushes and comm look fine. The small
grooves are caused by dust and dirt and other contamanents. A comm stone would
take them right out as would some fine grit aluminum oxide paper. Secondly
(more for those in the future)(not a lot you can do now, hehe) advance is
slightly less for CWDE than for CCWDE. It takes only about 7 to 8% to obtain
the same advancement when setting motors to CWDE. On ADC's that are predrilled
the gap is slightly smaller for the CW rotation in relationship to the neutral
hole. This was confirmed doing the Siamese8 motor where one motor side spins
electrically backward. I believe you'll be fine but I thought I'd throw that
out for future info for all.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This one comes used, and the brushes are already nice and concave; have
a look at http://judebert.com/wasted_youth/EV/brushes.html to see.
Could this be caused by improper advance?
Thanks,
Jude Anthony
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Subject: Re: Tesla motor and controller
From: "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 23:09:18 -0400
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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IIRC, the AC-150 has (144) air-cooled TO-220AB IGBTs. It probably runs
at 10 or 20kHz. It may use soft switching, but it wouldn't be as
necessary with the newer transistors. The control loop is certainly
closed, probably aided by a sensor on the motor shaft. Field-oriented
control would be my almost-certain guess.
- Arthur
On Tue, 2006-08-01 at 17:33 +0300, Kaido Kert wrote:
> Im wondering how "state of the art" the inverter is. Soft switching ?
> Zero-source? How high switching frequency ? Control algo is probably
> flux vector , not variable v/hz, but is it closed-loop or open loop ?
>
> -kert
>
> On 7/31/06, Jorg Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 7/30/06, Jorg Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > It isn't actually made by AC Propulsion, but shares nearly every
> > > feature: high regen, very high rpm, traction control. In the tZero,
> > > nothing is liquid-cooled, so I don't think it would need to be in the
> > > Tesla either... although the Tesla does go through some trouble to
> > > keep the LiIon batteries in a good temperature range - and they *are*
> > > liquid-cooled.
> >
> > To clarify:
> >
> > by "made by", I meant, "manufactured by"
> >
> > Tesla licensed at least one controller-related patent from AC
> > Propulsion, and much of the design is (as I understand it) the same.
> > However, the controller is not actually the AC-150 controller.
> >
> > As a side note, the first Tesla prototype, as well as the first
> > Wrightspeed prototype, *do* use an AC-150 controller.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 20:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: motor break in
To: [email protected]
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Hey Jody
I believe Warp motors come with seated brushes unlike the ADC motors which
need to be. Feel free to run it at 12 volts for that first EV grin and giggle
8^ ) I don't advise running motor to break them in, as comm stone will do the
same job in less than a minute and with a much better job than running the
motor for umteen hours. Be sure to protect the motor terminals from arcing
when you energize it. A good firm hand hold or blocks is encouraged as even at
12 volts they'll want to roll opposite of rotation.
Enjoy
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Jody Dewey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I bought a netgain WarP 9" motor for my Nissan 240sx. Do I have to do a
specific break in procedure for this motor? What would be the easiest and
safest way to test it out to make sure it works right? I was thinking of
hooking it up to a single 12V battery and just letting it run for a little
while.
Jody
---------------------------------
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 11:50:37 -0400
From: Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: EVDL <[email protected]>
Subject: EVs hit Fark
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Congratulations, Tom Wittman! Your interview in the Jerseyville
Telegraph from 7/31/06 made it to the Fark headlines!
The article isn't as well-written as some other recent ones, and it's
spawning a whole lot of negative comments about the economic feasability
of conversions. But it did touch on some other relevant themes, and
it's nice to see EVs hitting mainstream internet sites.
Read the article:
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16987713&BRD=1719&PAG=461&dept_id=25271&rfi=6
<http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16987713&BRD=1719&PAG=461&dept_id=25271&rfi=6>
Laugh at stupid Farkers:
http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=2203644
Jude "Spark Lad" Anthony
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:27:30 -0400
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Subject: In progress EV question
From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
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Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
As the responsible party for one of the, in progress, projects on the
album (#791) I'm looking for input. I created a basic web page where I
can post some pictures and question.
http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/
Motor mounting is my next big step. As it states on the page:
"My thought is to create a bracket attaching to the stock motor mounts.
I had planned on fabricating two "plates" that would be bolted to the
engine mounts, then have short risers welded to the plates. Then a
horizontal "bar" spanning the distance between the risers. The clam
shell motor mount would then be bolted to the horizontal bar using
spacers to fine tune the motor position.
The level in the photo is sitting on the clam shell bracket that is
supported with wood blocks in approximatly the correct location.
Comments? Suggestions?
I have no welding experience so I will have to find someone to make
this for me. What guidelines/specifications should I propose to a
potential fabricator? Does anyone know of a good welder in the Pioneer
Valley of Massachusetts?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 20:54:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: AC vs DC AGAIN?
To: [email protected]
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Steve,
Hang in there, there may be a lot of wind blowing in this list but we each
eventually take our turn (you just had one of yours, welcome). Many of us
can and do go AC/DC (EV speaking). As a matter of fact I will be listing
a pair of Solectria AC325 (AC) Alternating Current Motor controllers on
Ebay in a week or so. If you are interested, you may want to research
them for your application. I will notify the list when they are on.
My short input is as follows: I have both types of EVs, The AC vehicle is
ideal for regen-efficient, easily keeps up with traffic, daily driving,
but when I want to race, I like the DC set up, currently ;), it is one of
the fastest and economic ways to get max power to the wheels.
Good Luck,
Jimmy
https://www.dm3electrics.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Lacy
Sent: July 30, 2006 7:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: AC vs DC AGAIN?
Mike Chancey wrote:
> This proves what? Nothing really, just a data point to ponder.
From my perspective, as a noob who's interested in building an AC-powered
daily driver, is that the real issue isn't "AC vs. DC", its "drag vs.
daily
driver". There is so much "drag talk" on this list that I find it
virtually
impossible to find any useful info for building a "daily driver,"
especially
when it comes to information about a
(possibly) AC powered daily driver. As I see it, people here are mostly
dissing AC drive systems because they can't tinker with them, and they
can't
pump 1000A through them, and they can't get sub-12 or sub-10 quarter
miles.
I want none of these things, and I think I represent a lot of people
interested in EV conversions.
Its sad really, because this thread will probably drive me (and others, I
presume) to unsubscribe from the list, primarily because of the sheer
absurdity of the whole thing. There's so much bickering and fighting on
this list, instead of coming together as a community around all types EVs.
Its exactly the opposite of what I expected when I joined. (See the
thread
where people bash the Tesla for being too expensive for a great example).
Support AC, support DC, support dragging, support daily drivers, and
support
everything inbetween. Support commercial ventures, support budget homebrew
conversions, and support infinite budget custom conversions. These are
all
the things the EV community here should be doing.
Steve
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From: Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 22:00:45 -0600
To: [email protected]
On Aug 1, 2006, at 3:55 PM, Mark Frederick wrote:
> I just think, 100mpg, 100mph, and 0-60 in 6 seconds with a long range
> should
> be attainable without sacrificing a top and doors. The only question
> is,
> how much will it cost and how long will it take?
The Tesla Roadster, much discussed recently on this list, fits your
specs. $100,000, probably a year from delivery.
Today, the equation is something like this:
Fast, Efficient, Long Range, or Cheap: Pick 3 or fewer
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: EVs hit Fark
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:19:19 -0700
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An interesting article, though... about as accurate as most write ups. I'd
guess his savings on fuel and maintenance is optomistic, though. It's very
nicely done... and looks very good in the pix.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jude Anthony" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 8:50 AM
Subject: EVs hit Fark
> Congratulations, Tom Wittman! Your interview in the Jerseyville
> Telegraph from 7/31/06 made it to the Fark headlines!
>
> The article isn't as well-written as some other recent ones, and it's
> spawning a whole lot of negative comments about the economic feasability
> of conversions. But it did touch on some other relevant themes, and
> it's nice to see EVs hitting mainstream internet sites.
>
> Read the article:
>
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16987713&BRD=1719&PAG=461&dept_id=25271&rfi=6
>
>
<http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16987713&BRD=1719&PAG=461&dept_id
=25271&rfi=6>
>
> Laugh at stupid Farkers:
> http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=2203644
>
> Jude "Spark Lad" Anthony
>
>
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Air cond, regen, better EV, was Re: SepEx Feasibility-
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 23:34:43 -0400
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11:35 P.M
I am writing this after a thunder storm with power off in much of the
Montreal area. When I removed my first pack of not murdered, still good,
flooded batteries in 2004 after 2 years use, from the 1993 Skoda electric
hatchback (with air conditioning and regen braking, by the way) in order to
try a TS lithium ion with AGM hybrid battery pack, I put 12 of the removed
6V batteries in the garage to power an inverter. The power went out this
evening as I was downloading an E-book on peak oil and its coming affects on
civilization. The UPS my son gave me held up the computer power while I
went to the garage to switch over to inverter power which has been running
the house for the last 3 hours. It is handy having EV-size battery power
handy!
Anyway, back to responding to Michaela's valid "rant":
Where I am coming from is working with 2 EVs that have range extender
generators and some of those desired ammenities, and didn't even require the
basic conversion effort on my part, (just upgrading and experimenting).
But they are crude vehicles compared to what could be.
It looks to me now, after that learning experience so far, (and comparing
with the 2 recent, same model Toyotas that my wife and I use), that the
best way to have a reliable, spacious, quiet, modern, luxurious EV with
electric air conditioning, power steering, regenerative braking, almost
non-polluting and silent range extension generator built-in and automatic in
operation, brushless DC motor, no work to do removing ICE components,
getting a motor adapter made or mounting the motor, motor controller, etc.,
choosing between clutch or clutchless, parts availability for the base
vehicle, etc.
is to....
start with a Toyota Prius and convert it to plug-in hybrid.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Chet Fields" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: SepEx Feasibility-
>
> Chet Fields wrote:
>
>> I too would like to see a SepEx motor/controller combo in the range
>> necessary for a commuter EV.
>
> <RANTING ON>
>
> You're out of luck. It hasn't to do with racing. Or, to quote from an
> answer I received from a well established EV business:
>
> "Our purpose is to sell available, reliable products and these new items
> don't have those characteristics."
>
> Among other things, I was asking for electrified a/c compressors and
> serial isolators for the E-Meter.
>
> Gee .. electric a/c compressors are really weird and new. We ain't
> touchin' that kind of voodoo stuff. EVs with air conditioning? Might as
> well ask for devils stuff like ..... regenerative brakes.
>
> Well, it's the same company that writes in their FAQs:
>
> "We DO NOT Recommend Regen systems"
>
> But they do offer converted GEO Metros, their website lists a '96 for
> 16,500 USD. According to autotrader, I could get about 6 GEO metros for
> the money and each and every one of it would come with air conditioning,
> power steering and cruise control.
>
> <RANTING OFF>
>
> Seriously, I think it is going to be hard to find anybody willing to come
> up with a workable SepEx solution. 76V is nice, but not enough for
> anything bigger than, well, a Geo Metro :)
>
> Michaela
>
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Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 22:33:06 -0600
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Burned Sparrow motor
My wife and I had a Plymouth Champ, which was our first "new" car, back
around the 1980 gas price spike. Same as the Colt and made by Mitsubishi
for Chrapster Motors. They were Japanese disposable junk, not a Honda or
Toyota. When we first bought it I would have been upset over a loss like
that because of what we paid, but after being stranded a few times due to
engine problems to early in it's life, I would have cheered after a fire or
train crash (without anyone in it)! As others have said, sorry for the fire
loss.
BB
>Makes my heart ache looking at those pictures. Reminds me of about 30 years
>ago, when I saw the remains of a friend's Dodge Colt that had been savaged
>by a train (without him in it).
>
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
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Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 22:34:04 -0600
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Arm chair engineers, or daily EV'ers? Was:Re: Noob, want to build
an EV commuter bike.
Paul,
One of the few (on this list?), the proud, the daily EV driver. If I don't
drive an EV EVeryday, I just feel bad!
50,000 plus pure eelectric miles on the buggies, and a countin',
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.info/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, Colorado
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenage daughter)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the pure EV!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa
only!)
2004 Toyota Prius (for Ma, and Pa if Ma is a supervising!)
>Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:46:07 -0400
>From: Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<snippage>
>How many of you guys drive an EV every day ?
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 22:34:19 -0600
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
The 10kW genny I use for the eelectric truck is less than half that weight,
with tires, and handles..., but after converting it to propane I also lost
the weight of the plastic gas tank!
BB
>Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:01:49 -0700
>From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<snippage>
>What is the payload capacity of your Ranger?
>
>These are rather serious gensets you are considering; a quick Google
>suggests that a 10kW continuous genset is going to run around 800lbs and
>a 30kW unit is between 1700-1800lbs.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:35:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RRe: dc motor
To: [email protected]
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Rich,
What size motor is the GE? I have a Ghia and a sandbuggy both have the
9inch GE. It sure is a strong motor (ok it is heavy) and bullet proof. I
would suggest a 9 inch motor since it would be able to take what most
controllers can deliver. Do you plan to use a clutch or direct drive?
Jimmy
https://www.dm3electrics.com/
> I have 1970 convertible in th garage with 84,000 orig miles just waitin
> for
> me to finish it. paintin and such.. I put a ge motor in my 72 vw with a
> curtis 1221 but didnt like it. motor to old.. Rich from virginia
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 6:41 PM
> Subject: Re: dc motor
> >
> > On Jul 31, 2006, at 6:23 PM, torich1 wrote:
> >
> >> What is the best dc motor for a 1970 VW bug 72
> >>
> >> to 120 volts?
> >>
> >> Thanks Rich in Virginia
> >
> > Best motor? Not a real simple question but I would suggest the
> Advanced
> > DC 8 inch series motor available from most of the EV suppliers, or an
> > equivalent Warp 8 inch motor. If you don't want a freeway capable
> vehicle
> > the motor could be smaller. If you want that Bug to go 100mph you may
> want
> > to think larger (the aircooled Beetle is less aerodynamic than the VW
> > Bus.)
> >
> > I'm a big Bug fan. I've owned 1/2 dozen of them. The newest is the
> 1964
> > frame that carries my EV buggy body down the road. I've considered
> > building up another gasser Bug with the 55 mpg 1415cc engine.
> >
> > Paul G.
> >
> >
> >
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 20:41:57 -0700
From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: The Wrightspeed X1, a different class of car. (WAS Want to build a
sporty EV
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On 8/1/06, Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >My understanding is that the fastest street legal EV we generally talk about
> >is White Zombie at 12.151 in the 1/4 mile. However, if that car (the X1) gets
> >11.95does that mean it's the world's "World's
> >Quickest & Fastest 'Street Legal Electric Car'"? Does it meet NEDRA rules?
And John Wayland responded:
> As to passing NEDRA rules pertaining to its 11.95 second run, no, it
> doesn't. The video of the X1 racing against the Porsche and the Ferrari
> at Infinion Raceway, is reminiscent of AC Propulsion's video stunts...no
> timing lights, no starting tree, and just two folks waving goofy white
> flags to start and end the time trials :-(
Doesn't NEDRA require a lot of safety modifications? (Exterior power
cutoff switch etc?) I'm pretty sure that's why the X1 and the tZero
don't do NEDRA runs.
> The run against the Porsche
> wasn't even from a standing start, rather, both cars were rolling along
> at around 10 mph or so when the goofy white flag sent them down the
> strip...yeah, real accurate stuff here!
To be fair, that's not Wrightspeed's fault. A big advantage of the
ACP drive is "perfect launches" - the tires are at their traction
limit and stay there until the power output from the controller can no
longer deliver max torque. So when you race any gas vehicle against
any ACP-powered vehicle, the ACP machine always gets a big start. So
the guy with the Porsche insisted on a rolling start, to remove this
"unfair" advantage.
> For years now, we've cordially invited the AC Propulsion guys to enter
> one of their machines in a NEDRA EVent...they've never been to one.
> We've asked for official NHRA timed results....never seen any. I have no
> doubts that if they would, we'd see impressive ETs, but I bet they'd
> fall short of the various claims over the years.
Well, come next year, there is no doubt in my mind that you'll see a
Tesla at the track. If not several.
> I wonder what the folks at Wrightspeed behind this promotion
> (and the same press corp they've courted) would think when the $150,000
> high end skeleton machine fitted with high tech AC power trains, high
> tech batteries, and it's high tech racing chassis, got beat by a full
> bodied old '72 Datsun sedan powered by common lead acid batteries
> feeding a DC motor, and built in some forklift mechanic's back yard shop
> at 1/10th the cost?
They'd say, "Sure, but how much range does your car have? We don't
need a trailer to drive back home."
> I think this would actually help them, because each
> time they get asked where their machine's doors were,
> they could honestly say they got blown off.
:-) Someday I aspire to have your way with words, John.
jorg
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From: Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Drag on an electric motor
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 22:34:11 -0600
To: [email protected]
On Aug 1, 2006, at 9:01 PM, Michael Perry wrote:
> It's not quite the same thing, but a local guy (HS teacher) has a
> pusher
> trailer for his Rabbit. It's been converted to an EV, but has a short
> range.
> So, for traveling, he hitches up the front end of an Rabbit to the
> trailer
> hitch... and uses that to push his car along. It's an odd looking
> sight, but
> works well enough. I assume his motor has regen, as he says he can
> charge
> when he's being pushed by the ICE (except up hills)... otherwise he
> disengages the tranny and rolls along.
Based on your email address and this description, I think you're
talking about Mr. Sharkey.
<http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm>
His Rabbit has a shunt motor (I think this is the same as sep-ex) and
has regen.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
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Subject: RE: In progress EV question
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:50:34 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
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John wrote:
> I had planned on fabricating two "plates" that would be bolted to the
> engine mounts, then have short risers welded to the plates. Then a
> horizontal "bar" spanning the distance between the risers. The clam
> shell motor mount would then be bolted to the horizontal bar using
> spacers to fine tune the motor position.
This is basically what I did for mine, and it is working great. I also
made the crossmember such that I could mount my motor controller on top
of it, which allowed keeping the controller-to-motor cables as short and
neat as possible.
What I did was cut a pair of plates and bolted them to the stock mounts,
then took a length of heavy wall steel tube about 1.5" in diameter and
cut a couple of notches in it to allow it to be bent into a sort of an
inverted 'U' shape. Then I cut and fitted it so the 'arms' had the
proper lengths and angle on their ends to mate flush with the mounting
plates. In my case, I had the motor installed to the tranny and
supported in the desired position by a floor jack while fabricating the
crossmember, which allowed getting the dimensions right.
If you carefully mark the alignment of the crossmember to the plates,
you should be able to take the 3 pieces to a weldor and have them put
together without bringing the whole vehicle as a jig. I think that in
my case, we tacked the corssmember to the plates while in the vehicle,
then removed them for the weldor to join them up securely.
Good luck,
Roger.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: More Sep Ex Stuff, was Re: Want to build a sporty EV, AC is
feasible too -
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 01:18:09 -0400
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: Want to build a sporty EV, AC is feasible too -
>
> It makes me wonder why no 'commercial' EV supplier in the US has those
> motors/controllers available? It sure would provide a good alternative to
> those 'Advanced' DCs or Warps.
>
> Michaela
>
> Hi Michaela an' All;
I think that demand for a sep ex , or lack of it, maybe a factor? Most
people, well that aren't on the List would be clueless? And some ON the List
too? I have spoken with motor and controller guyz and they all say" Well?"
Anyone actually WANT a Sep Ex setup, or," Bob, If ya want to put some bux up
front". Like a AC system, you have to build a motor and controller designed
for each other. A regular, say, series motor will run with just one big ass
contactor(entry Level) tro a resister setup, a series parallel setup. Hell!
I ran that for the first few years, a Rectactor setup, as Lee Hart called
it, gave me 3 basic speeds, 30, 60 and 120 volts, not counting "Off"Byusing
the 5 speed tranny and the clutch, I could give you a smooth ride. But I
have driven stick shift cars since I was 11, Big enough to reach the pedals
in a '50 Ford 3 in the tree setup.Back to the point; When I got my Raptur, I
called it my "Rapture" Ah, bliss! Silky smooth acceleration, and an instant
love affair with the wonders of current multiplication!Yeah! I was left
stranded a few times, when the damn Silly-con wouldnt ' rapt. The good old
Series Parallel homemade setup NEVER let me down, with the old HB contactors
from my EFP daze in Detroit, and BIG ass RR power supply diodes borrowed
from trains. In a year I DOD blow out a few of those, or set them up so they
passed power in BOTH directions! Blew a fuze and just came home on 90 volts.
only other failure was a loose wire on the Micro cam roller cam setup I had
to sequence the contactors. I coulda figured THAT one out when I was 15
years old! The Rapture? Nope, off to DCP to fix.ALWAYS when I was late for
the train, hop in the car..nothin' no reasuring "Click" of the line switch.
Hop in the Sentra or Prius, as time and trains wait for no man! All the
homemade controller and 400 dollar used battery setup and 900 bux for a
motor and a variac and rectyfier got my first EV going. So I was off and
running for about 1500 bux. But I'm a hellova scrounger, I KNEW where and
when old trains went to die, for parts. A Budd RDC car air compresser
contacter, with cool arc shute, and retrofitred with a 12 volt coil, for a
cheep line switch.And the above mentioned diodes from a Metro North electric
commuter car that died before it's time...........smashup. They often "
Total" old RR cars, too. Yeah, working for the RR is a handy parts supply,
or a junkyard that works on trains!So I tell most people "don't try it at
home" in building contacter controllers. If ya hafta buy all your stuff new,
hell, ya may as well go with a used Rapture, or Zilla.
The Sep EX stuff I fooled with years ago was a motor the guy had just
rewound the fields with many turns of finer wire. This was in one of Bob
Aronson's old Baker motors, 11 inch frame HUGH comm and brush assembly. I
hear Jin Husted nodding, I'm sure he haz seen a bunch of these things, ol'
slow turner, barrel size Armature, bettya these were the ones in the Baker
car of prehistoric times?Basicly, Doug Dow just made a compound, no, shunt
motor out of the thing? I would have thought he would the field for 120
volts worth as that was the Mars 2 operating voltage. THAT'S the only DC Sep
EX that I have met persionally.and that I rave about, still. With a second
small controller to do the field, tuied in with the say, Rapter, to get
smooth control and instant regen?I think Field current stays constant,
except when ya varie it for regen. Like strengting it for regen down hills
or stop lites?The Alltrax setup they sell ya for an Electrac is set up this
way. it has a simple field control as the Electrac has a shunt motor, or at
least some of them? GE seems to have made more variations of a theme. Some
have a permag motor, but most of mine are sepex. So Alltrax is on the
threshold of Sep EX, for the masses? I would go out omn a wire(limb) and say
IF I had a sepex, say 25 hp motor built FOR a sep ex controller Alltrax
might bite, and sell ya, or ME a sepex BIG enough to have fun with?A 8 or 9
inch Warp, with the bolt in fine fields? But you would hafta run ) 0 %
timing to do this, though. Sheeessh! No free lunch! Sigh!Well, as Lee said
that Interpoles come in here, to help with the communtation issue. Yup!
Bigger around motor to stuff them in, too.Then ya have a minny MAX motor, A
MAX Portland's Lite Rail system, type motor. So it can get compluicated. IF
I had the bux I would try to build a Sep Ex setup.
As somebody pointed out they do all this in European EV's, as usual they
are ahead of us in the Colonies.And most EVers are the cheapest guyz on the
planet, I resemble that, not dissing anybody here.Hell, we don't EVen run
out and buy Bat. Regs<g>!
My two coils worth.
Bob
--- End Message ---
