EV Digest 5766
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Solar charging an EV - off grid
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV Range estimation...
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Best Plasma Cutter?
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: My ICE Costs
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Backyard Blower Builds
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: IGBTs and DC controllers
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Best Plasma Cutter?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Optima YTs wanted in Seattle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Another Passing of an EV Pioneer
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape wanted for NY state fleet.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: How much voltage can a 72 volt controller handle?
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Optima YTs wanted in Seattle
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Oregonian Reporter Gets Zombied!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: My ICE Costs
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: How much voltage can a 72 volt controller handle?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EUROPOSITRON,Is this battery for real ?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Plug-in Prius (was: WKTEC in Winter Park, FL)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Not a NEV (was Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Fiberglass box questions
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape wanted for NY state fleet.
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) iota dc/dc problem & how to drop voltage a bit
by elaine chiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Fiberglass box questions
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Fiberglass box questions
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: My ICE Costs
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hey, don't forget wind!
If you can put up a small windmill(my neighbors would freak), they
can work at night (actually wind increases at night in most areas) and
they are a lot cheaper than solar panels per watt. If you have a bank of
batteries instead of immediate use, wind may be an option to extend the
charge time.
http://www.air403windgenerators.com/AIR_403.html
wow the price has almost doubled in the last few years.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you can't use the 20C number, Instead, you need the 1hr rating
which for yellow tops is about 34ah
so about a mile per (50ah;C20)AGM :-( iff you can get great wh/mile
I have 24 orbitals but....(24*12*34*.8)/450 = 17 miles, that is what I get.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:09:52 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
>I need to do about 6 meters worth of cuts on 1/4 inch steel, for my
>motor adaptor and a roll bar. On past things I've tried several
>methods, and they all take alot of time. I think it is high time to
>get a plasma cutter, for this and other future projects.
>
>Any recommendations on a good brand to get? I don't anticipate
>needing to cut thicker than 1/4 inch steel. Many thanks.
Look into this one. It sure looks nice.
http://plasmacam.com/
R. Matt Milliron
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
1981 Jet Electrica.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ryan,
The range should be longer if the vehicle is lighter. Just like any EV
battery to weight ratio.
My vehicles weighs 6850 lbs and the battery weight is 2160 lbs which is
31.5% of the weight of the EV.
I had contacted ESMA some time ago, about how many it would take, to give me
at least a 20 mile range. It would take the space of 60 Trojan T-145's to do
that. I do not have the room to put that many in.
They may be ideal for large city street buses that make a 10 mile loop back
to the bus depot, where they can do a fast 300 amp charge.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Plut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: My ICE Costs
> Roland,
> Interesting. So if it's "5 to 10 miles for a 5 to 10 ton vehicle", what
> happens if the vehicle is only 2 tons? Longer ranges?
> I can't afford them anyway; I'm just blue-skying.
> Ryan G. Plut
> "Common sense is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it" -
> G.
> Bernard Shaw
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 5:53 AM
> Subject: Re: My ICE Costs
>
>
> > Hello Ryan,
> >
> > The super capacitors from ESMA can work alone with out batteries, for
> > short range from 5 to 10 miles for a 5 to 10 ton vehicle.
> >
> > You can stack up these capacitor modules to any voltage you want,
> > normally
> > higher than the rated motor voltage.
> >
> > They use a regulated type of controller, something like a Zilla to
> > provide
> > the corrected voltage to the motor.
> >
> > You can charge these super capacitors in 5 minutes or less if you have
> > the
> > 300 to 400 amp charger design for them.
> >
> > These units are normally design for public or industrial applications
> > that
> > have the electrical systems to support this type EV's.
> >
> > It would be interesting to build a lite weight EV using this type of
> > power
> > source.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ryan Plut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: My ICE Costs
> >
> >
> >> Roland,
> >>
> >> >
> >> > A company call ESMA in Russia makes supercapacitors that are used to
> >> > drive
> >> > service trucks and buses. They are as big or bigger than batteries.
> >> > They would cost about $40,000.00 for my car. See www.esma-cap.com
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> > These Cobalt cells are very heavy. They weigh about 50 lbs per cell
> >> > and
> >> > would cost about $6000.00 for 42 cell block which weighs about 2000
> >> > lbs
> >> > each.
> >> >
> >> > To drive my car today, this would cost me (factory cost) about
> >> > $15,000.00
> >> > for a 180 volt pack. They are not on the shelf units. They are
> >> > made
> >> > by
> >> > special order as need to fit new and existing battery cases. They
> >> > are
> >> > normally a proto type battery as of now. You can get them from The
> >> > Appollo
> >> > Energy Systems. www.apolloenergysystems.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks for the website tips on caps and batteries.
> >> Those ESMA capacitor modules have a max voltage of only 52v for the
> >> traction
> >> type!
> >> What if your pack is *much* higher? like 360V?
> >> Must batt pack volts equal cap pack voltage?
> >>
> >> Ryan
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But you want your blower to operate inversely with the drive motor. At the
slower drive motor speeds it is consuming more current and producing more
heat so the blower needs to run faster, as the drive motor speeds up the
current drops and thus the motor runs cooler and the blower can throttle
down.
Hmm... sounds like a rather simply inductive type control for the blower.
Measure the drive current not voltage and run the blower proportional to the
current level.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
GE I-5
Blossvale, NY
>Thanks Rod,
> My idea was that since most of us don't go past 170 motor V, a 110V
> universal motor could be put in line after the controller, and wind up and
> down along with the motor. That would almost certainly use more power
> overall than the internal fan, but might be a solution for boosted cooling
> on really high power EVs. Add a relay to bring in low voltages for
> continuous cooling when the controller drops out, and it could be
all-around
> cool.
> Jay
> www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
>
________________________________________________
Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.9
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--- Begin Message ---
I didn't notice....
Has anybody posted the actual meaning of DoD as it pertains to EV's? Depth
of Discharge.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
GE I-5
Blossvale, NY
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Ryan Plut
> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 12:33 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: IGBTs and DC controllers
>
> THANKS to all who replied! My learning curve is flattening!
> Ryan G. Plut
> Common sense is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it; -
G.
>
> Bernard Shaw
>
>
>
> OK, everybody:
> I've been to www.evparts.com and seen their FAQ list, but STILL can't
> find this stuff. What do these terms stand for:
> SOC=State of Charge?
> PMSM=Permanent Magnet Series Motor?
> IGBT=Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor (IGBT)
> DOD= Only thing I can think of is Department of Defense
> UQM= UQM Technologiess?
> http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/uqm_deere_hybrid_tractor.html
> BLDC= Brushless DC (BLDC) Motor
> IIRC= If I Recal/Remember Correctly Internet Acronyms Dictionary
> Thanks!
> Ryan G. Plut
________________________________________________
Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.9
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 8/17/06 12:11:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< bj: Best Plasma Cutter?
Date: 8/17/06 12:11:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Dymaxion)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
I need to do about 6 meters worth of cuts on 1/4 inch steel, for my
motor adaptor and a roll bar. On past things I've tried several
methods, and they all take alot of time. I think it is high time to
get a plasma cutter, for this and other future projects.
Any recommendations on a good brand to get? I don't anticipate
needing to cut thicker than 1/4 inch steel. Many thanks >>
I repair these plasmas every day and I would recomend as new units
Miller,Hypertherm and Lincoln in that order.Stay away from the new Thermal
Dynamics
units and any other than the above brands.Also make sure you get a good air
drier,it will pay for itself in torch replacement parts quickly.If you were
close I
have a good (older Thermal cutter )here for $500. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congrats Jim. When you were riding your Lectra what kind of range did you
experience & is your Lectra a stock 24volt unit? Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dempsey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:05 PM
Subject: Optima YTs wanted in Seattle
> Hey, all
>
> Jim here again, with a Lectra needing batteries. If anyone has 4 Yellow
Tops in good shape for sale, or is planning a bulk purchase for a project I
could add to for delivery in Greater Puget Sound/Portland, OR/Vancouver, BC
area, lemme know.
>
> I'm finally getting high enough on the seniority list to transfer to a
base close enough to home, and couldn't be more excited.
>
> Later!
>
> Jim Dempsey
> EMB Lectra #66
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't imagine what this phrase has to do with EV's, but had to snicker at
the "not bound by the limitations of..." phrase. It reminded me of the
occasional threads on this list by those who are "not bound by the
limitations of ..." physics. Ahh to have that kind of freedom... Imagine
the EV you could build. :-)
damon
For somebody who is not bound by the limitations of religion, death is
nothing but a natural process we all will have to experience sooner or
later. It still is sad, at least for those who are missing him.
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes I would love to have the 10Megga bucks from the Empire State.
My guess is the big money guys have already made the phone calls and locked
it down..
Meanwhile... I have a Bunch of PiPrius kits to make and I have PiPrius #0
in the Back of my Escape.. Right now..
So.. I am rather serious about getting a PiEscape running in my hands. I've
had it for just over 30 days and I have 2500 miles on it.
She's called Sage. Clearly I didn't name her..... My Redhead did.
I drove the Kit over to Wenatchee, then made a panic Run to Portland
yesterday for 6 ...year 6 PFC chassis.. I had $24,000 worth of product in a
$30K Hybrid... So.. I
know how the Rig drives in traffic. Not bad at all.
The only warning is... I have it Gravity installed.. so no big brakes or
smokey burn off!!!
Yes Campers... a Escape Hybrid will smoke the front tires... at will with
practice. Hint...why do you think I got a 2 wheel drive version??
It's looking like the Nav/ 6 CD changer and power flow and gas mileage unit
is a factory installed feature only. And you just can't get on on a 2 wheel
drive.
Bummer... I might have to actually make a wire harness...
So warning if you want the Escape with the Nav and Hybrid display...
Force them to order it, or suffer with the added cost of leather seat$, 4
wheel drive , Moon roof. All th atYuppie Bling, just to get the display that
should standard on all Hybrid Fords. Hey Bill Ford... Toyota Does it!!... I
want mine and am willing to pay a grand over it's cost to have it installed.
No dice...nobody can find one or dare install one. Great... more work for
Madman.
I have the PDF of the NY State Bid.
I am not interested in handling it solo. I am hoping somebody else contracts
me to make the Kits, I don't want the politics and hassle.
I won't get it I am too much into REAL production.. those that get it will
suck enormous funds and deliver.. What...??
We will see what happens.. I want to keep all my options open
And As far as New York State is concerned.. I don't need 10 Mill...I will
have it designed and operating before they accept the Bid, With my own funds
and customers.
That 10 Mill is just going to bring out the Shisters and Goverment fed con
artists.
It's Not for me.
Hey I have been telling folks everywhere, now is not the time for R&D.. it's
time for production.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape wanted for NY state
fleet.
Madman has been notified.
Mike
--- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I though Madman and others may want to get into
> this.
>
> New York State Aims to Convert its Hybrid Fleet to Plug-Ins
> A new $10 million effort in New York State is geared toward
> converting the state's hybrid fleet-consisting mostly of
> Toyota Priuses and Ford Hybrid Escapes-into plug-in
> hybrids. The New York State Energy Research and Development
> Agency (NYSERDA) released a solicitation on Monday that
> calls for multiple awards of up to $100,000 for the
> development of plug-in hybrid vehicle prototypes, which will
> then be subject to three months of testing. Builders of
> successful prototype vehicles may then apply for a second
> round of funding to convert the state's fleet of hybrids
> into plug-in hybrids. NYSERDA estimates that the state owns
> between 500 and 600 hybrid cars and light trucks, and the
> winning bidders will need to present a viable plan to
> manufacture all-or a significant portion of-the plug-in
> conversion systems in New York State, or otherwise generate
> significant economic activity in the state. Proposals are
> due on September 18th. See NYSERDA's Program Opportunity
> Notice 1088
>
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI Mate,
The answer to your question is almost yes. I have an alltrax controller
rated at 72 volts. The mosfets are rated to 100 volts. So you can go 80
volts safely and even 84 volts, however, the controller will stop PWM over
90 volts. But never never go above 100 volts, so when you equalize, good i
dea to disconnect a 84 volts pack. But 80 volts is fine if using a alltrax.
Check to see the voltage rating of the mosfets. Remember that 72 volts when
equalized goes to 90 volts or therebouts.
Cheers hope it helps
On 17/08/06, David J. Hrivnak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This may be a silly question but can one safely put 80V or 96V on a
controller rated at 72V max? Will the controller simply limit the output
voltage to 72V or do you run the possibility of blowing the
controller? The
reason I ask is I understand that under heavy load the voltage can sag,
often significantly, so the 72V pack could drop to under 60V when pulling
400 amps out. If the voltage will sag can you put 96V on a 72V controller
so when it sags you still have all 72V going through the controller?
I found a used Curtis (1209B-6402) 48V-72V controller that could meet my
need but I will likely need all 72V. Thank you
David J. Hrivnak
www.hrivnak.com
Personal Account WWJD?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jim I am contiplating a 20 piece order of Yts for the Fiero.
The U of W guys repossed my Blue top Orbitals... Sigh..
They were well tested, but not mine.
Current effort getting Hawkers in my new Escape Hybrid..
They are installed...but not hooked up. It REALLY does look like I have a
Plug in Ford...
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dempsey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:05 PM
Subject: Optima YTs wanted in Seattle
> Hey, all
>
> Jim here again, with a Lectra needing batteries. If anyone has 4 Yellow
Tops in good shape for sale, or is planning a bulk purchase for a project I
could add to for delivery in Greater Puget Sound/Portland, OR/Vancouver, BC
area, lemme know.
>
> I'm finally getting high enough on the seniority list to transfer to a
base close enough to home, and couldn't be more excited.
>
> Later!
>
> Jim Dempsey
> EMB Lectra #66
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did I hear correctly that Car and Driver will be at the Late night Nationals
next friday and Saturday???
Are we really going Big time???
Have we got thier attention fianlly???
Can John do a Wheelie .. with a Car and driver Guy strapped in White Zombie,
Cameras rolling????
WOW..
is this a dream or are we finally there!
Madman
> http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think Victor's prices will vary depending on the exchange rate and latest
prices from Siemens. I believe his systems are all new surplus
(discontinued systems). When I contacted him several years ago, he quickly
sent me his current prices (I ended up buying an already built EV rather
than building my own). I think he can also get current Siemens models as
well, but they would be extremely pricey. He also has the conversion of his
Honda CRX on his website with very detailed notes and pictures, which will
help if you decide to go that route. Several folks on the list have done
conversions using his products and can give you all the pros and cons.
Dave
From: Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: My ICE Costs
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 23:00:19 -0600
On Aug 16, 2006, at 10:09 PM, Ryan Plut wrote:
Metricminds prices for AC Siemens all say "inquire" for the price. They
DO list MES, and others though. They list a BRUSA for $15K! So are Siemens
prices similar to MES?
Why not send an email to Victor and ask him?
I think I remember you said you didn't want to bother him, but the way I
look at it, if he didn't want to be bothered, he'd just post the prices on
his website.
When I started on my conversion, I not only asked him for his price list, I
also took him up on his offer to run some numbers for me. I think he's
since created an Excel spreadsheet you can download and run the numbers
yourself, but back then he did it for you. I found it a big help.
(Thanks, Victor!)
I ended up not buying anything from his company, but I don't feel bad. He
offered the service to me, and took the time to send me a custom quote,
with the understanding that I might choose not to buy anything from him.
And the way he's got it set up, you're certainly not going to buy anything
from him if you don't know what it costs, so you'll HAVE to bother him to
get the price list.
I'm pretty sure Victor will not hate you for asking for his price list.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 16 Aug 2006 at 20:47, David J. Hrivnak wrote:
> This may be a silly question but can one safely put 80V or 96V on a
> controller rated at 72V max?
Generally, no. Some controllers MAY be able to handle applied voltage about
25% high during charging, but many of the controller mfgs. will tell you to
make sure the controller is disconnected at that time.
One limiting factor is the voltage rating of the big electrolytic input
capacitors. If too high a voltage is applied to them they will self-
destruct in a rather spectacular manner.
Bottom line - if the controller is rated for 72 volts max nominal voltage,
that's as high as you should go. If you have too much sag, get stiffer
batteries (AGMS or larger flooded batteries).
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 17 Aug 2006 at 2:32, Danny Miller wrote:
> they DO say their cargo ship battery is rechargeable 3000
> times.
This would be quite a development. All previous Al-Air battery work that
I'm aware of has been with primary cells. One of the (obvious) challenges
has been finding ways to renew them when they are exhausted.
Someone was working on a Zn-air battery which had exchangeable Zn
"cassettes." I think the German Post ran a test program using delivery
vehicles fitted with these batteries some years back. I recall pretty good
range.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 16 Aug 2006 at 17:11, Evan Tuer wrote:
> GM have started selling the Daewoo Matiz over here
> with a Chevrolet badge (for some reason).
> http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/models/matiz_55/index.htm
> This 4-door car weighs about 750kG (1700 pounds).
>
I've ridden in one of these cars (gasoline powered). I was surprised at how
roomy and comfortable it was. However, there isn't much spare space, and I
have no clue where one would put a battery pack for a conversion. Might
have to raise the suspension and sling it under the floorpan.
Anybody know how much a Daewoo Rezzo weighs? It looks like it has lots of
room for batteries.
BTW, a little trivia. Korean doesn't have a sound equivalent to Z, so it's
literally impossible for them to pronounce the names of these cars
correctly. The little one comes out something like Mah-teach or Mah-tees-
uh, and the larger one as - get ready for it - Retch-oh. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 17 Aug 2006 at 0:30, Charles Whalen wrote:
> Yes, Toyota did announce about 4 weeks ago that it is developing a plug-in
> hybrid. Here is one of the media reports on it:
> http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0720/p02s01-ussc.html
Thanks for posting that link, Charles!
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 16 Aug 2006 at 10:08, Jack Murray wrote:
> I had considered buying a NEV, even becoming a dealer for them,
> until I drove around at 25mph for a day. Horrible, and I'm not one that
> drives fast (off the racetrack :)
I'd have to agree, and I'm a slowpoke. That 25mph limit makes LSVs suitable
only for people who have all day to get to their destinations.
I found that even a Comuta-Car was limiting. Most US cities have
innerbelts. It's a chore to get across town without using them, and
sometimes so doing takes you into neighborhoods you might prefer to avoid.
So IMO a city car for the states should go fast enough to negotiate
innerbelts in the right lane. Probably a 50 mph top speed would be
sufficient.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for all the feedback. Here's the progress so far. I've got the box
mostly built. I'm using
a spray on plastic for the inside (to protect the wood from the electrolyte,
water, etc.) I'll
fiberglass the outside for strength and water protection.
I've ordered a roll of fiberglass cloth and I have my eyes on some epoxy resin
that I will be
ordering soon too. I can't believe how expensive it is from local suppliers.
The best I can find
around here is about $35 for a quart of epoxy resin and almost the same price
for the hardener to
go with it. Online I've seen prices of less than half that. Is there a big
difference between
brands of epoxy resin? I'm not worried about cosmetics, just strength and
durability.
I also have a question about carbon fiber and kevlar cloth. I've seen these for
sale but don't
know if it's worth bothering with them. Is there a significant difference in
strength between the
kevlar cloth and the fiberglass cloth? Or is all the real strength in the
resin? I'm mostly
concerned with adding support to the wooden box.
Thanks again for all the help!
Dave Cover
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--- Begin Message ---
What a kickass project that could be for real money too.
With politics pushed aside, do you think you could keep up with
demand? "We need 8 units for beta, in 3 weeks!" kind of stuff.
Man, I'm so looking for a better job than I have now and this would be
it. Dream on...
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yes I would love to have the 10Megga bucks from the Empire State.
>
> My guess is the big money guys have already made the phone calls and
locked
> it down..
>
> Meanwhile... I have a Bunch of PiPrius kits to make and I have
PiPrius #0
> in the Back of my Escape.. Right now..
> So.. I am rather serious about getting a PiEscape running in my
hands. I've
> had it for just over 30 days and I have 2500 miles on it.
> She's called Sage. Clearly I didn't name her..... My Redhead did.
>
> I drove the Kit over to Wenatchee, then made a panic Run to Portland
> yesterday for 6 ...year 6 PFC chassis.. I had $24,000 worth of
product in a
> $30K Hybrid... So.. I
> know how the Rig drives in traffic. Not bad at all.
> The only warning is... I have it Gravity installed.. so no big brakes or
> smokey burn off!!!
> Yes Campers... a Escape Hybrid will smoke the front tires... at will
with
> practice. Hint...why do you think I got a 2 wheel drive version??
> It's looking like the Nav/ 6 CD changer and power flow and gas
mileage unit
> is a factory installed feature only. And you just can't get on on a
2 wheel
> drive.
> Bummer... I might have to actually make a wire harness...
> So warning if you want the Escape with the Nav and Hybrid
display...
> Force them to order it, or suffer with the added cost of leather
seat$, 4
> wheel drive , Moon roof. All th atYuppie Bling, just to get the
display that
> should standard on all Hybrid Fords. Hey Bill Ford... Toyota Does
it!!... I
> want mine and am willing to pay a grand over it's cost to have it
installed.
> No dice...nobody can find one or dare install one. Great... more
work for
> Madman.
>
> I have the PDF of the NY State Bid.
> I am not interested in handling it solo. I am hoping somebody else
contracts
> me to make the Kits, I don't want the politics and hassle.
> I won't get it I am too much into REAL production.. those that get
it will
> suck enormous funds and deliver.. What...??
>
> We will see what happens.. I want to keep all my options open
>
> And As far as New York State is concerned.. I don't need 10 Mill...I
will
> have it designed and operating before they accept the Bid, With my
own funds
> and customers.
> That 10 Mill is just going to bring out the Shisters and Goverment
fed con
> artists.
> It's Not for me.
>
> Hey I have been telling folks everywhere, now is not the time for
R&D.. it's
> time for production.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:02 AM
> Subject: Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape wanted for
NY state
> fleet.
>
>
> Madman has been notified.
>
> Mike
>
>
> --- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi All,
> > I though Madman and others may want to get into
> > this.
> >
> > New York State Aims to Convert its Hybrid Fleet to Plug-Ins
> > A new $10 million effort in New York State is geared toward
> > converting the state's hybrid fleet-consisting mostly of
> > Toyota Priuses and Ford Hybrid Escapes-into plug-in
> > hybrids. The New York State Energy Research and Development
> > Agency (NYSERDA) released a solicitation on Monday that
> > calls for multiple awards of up to $100,000 for the
> > development of plug-in hybrid vehicle prototypes, which will
> > then be subject to three months of testing. Builders of
> > successful prototype vehicles may then apply for a second
> > round of funding to convert the state's fleet of hybrids
> > into plug-in hybrids. NYSERDA estimates that the state owns
> > between 500 and 600 hybrid cars and light trucks, and the
> > winning bidders will need to present a viable plan to
> > manufacture all-or a significant portion of-the plug-in
> > conversion systems in New York State, or otherwise generate
> > significant economic activity in the state. Proposals are
> > due on September 18th. See NYSERDA's Program Opportunity
> > Notice 1088
> >
> > Jerry Dycus
> >
> >
>
>
> Here's to the crazy ones.
> The misfits.
> The rebels.
> The troublemakers.
> The round pegs in the square holes.
> The ones who see things differently
> The ones that change the world!!
>
> www.RotorDesign.com
>
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--- Begin Message ---
hi guys.
1) I have an problem with my iota dc/dc that I can't make sense of:
when I start (close the main contactor), I briefly see the full pack
voltage of 160+V, then it sags down over 10 seconds to about 30V and
lights come on the DCP raptor.
the iota is wired after the main contactor and the voltage there is
full pack voltage. I thought at first there was something wrong with
the controller, but unplugging the iota brought back the full pack
voltage and the controller was fine.
I plugged the iota into AC 110, and got a consistent 13.5 vdc out,
charging a small 12v gel cell
the 13.5 V output is wired to an auxilary battery, from which all the
accessories are wired.
it's almost like there's some leak out the 13v side, but if it was a
short, I would have expected my 12v accessory battery to go dead, or
something more instantaneous to happen? all of the accessories are
fused, and nothing's blown, either.
where do I look next? could it be the dc/dc somehow?
2) I found a vicor that outputs around 18 volts and I want 13.5v. It
seems that a voltage divider would be variable since the load of the
12v circuit would change. Can I use a zener to drop voltage, or am I
"wasting" the energy to heat?
thanks for comments
elaine
berkeley, CA
'76 citicar
'86 converted pickup
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Kevlar is actually generally weaker than fiberglass in a composite. If
it's a part that gets worn, Kevlar is abrasion resistant though it will
get kind of "fuzzy" as it gets worn into. Kevlar does not absorb epoxy
as well as glass.
You don't have a reason to go with Kevlar, fiberglass will do fine.
I use US Composites. Very, very good resin. I use their "US Composites"
house brand.
http://www.shopmaninc.com/epoxy.html
Unless you live in a very cold place, you want 2:1 Slow. Since this is
fiberglass cloth, you want Thin. BTW, Thin/Thick Part A's and all the
different Part B's are interchangeable, that is, if you get some Thin
Part A with 2:1 and later get some Thick Part A with faster 3:1 Part B
you can use the Thin Part A with the 3:1 Part B if you want.
I strongly recommend you get an accurate scale and go by weight. Volume
is hard to be accurate with. Thorough mixing is critical. As mentioned
one you mix it the container starts heating up slowly, and the reaction
speed accelerates with heat. Even a small container can overheat
sometimes. It can bubble, fume, melt the container and cure to solid in
minutes. Hard to avoid with the 4:1 unless you work in a very cold garage.
Note the difference between pot life and curing time. It may have a pot
life of 30 min but takes a couple of days to cure. Generally it takes
longer to reach a final strength.
You want to get microballoons (Q-Cells), fumed silica (CabOSil), and
1/32" milled glass fibers. These all serve different functions and
you'll soon understand their purposes.
Danny
Dave Cover wrote:
I also have a question about carbon fiber and kevlar cloth. I've seen these for
sale but don't
know if it's worth bothering with them. Is there a significant difference in
strength between the
kevlar cloth and the fiberglass cloth? Or is all the real strength in the
resin? I'm mostly
concerned with adding support to the wooden box.
Thanks again for all the help!
Dave Cover
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--- Begin Message ---
CF is great for strength but hard to bend around corners when applying.
Kevlar is excellent for point impacts, such as bullets and sharp things.
Hard to cut.
Usually people select glass just because it is cheaper. If I was to build a
FRP box and had the money I might try a CF box with one layer of kevlar on
the bottom for abrasion resistance.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Cover
Sent: August 17, 2006 9:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Fiberglass box questions
Thanks for all the feedback. Here's the progress so far. I've got the box
mostly built. I'm using a spray on plastic for the inside (to protect the
wood from the electrolyte, water, etc.) I'll fiberglass the outside for
strength and water protection.
I've ordered a roll of fiberglass cloth and I have my eyes on some epoxy
resin that I will be ordering soon too. I can't believe how expensive it is
from local suppliers. The best I can find around here is about $35 for a
quart of epoxy resin and almost the same price for the hardener to go with
it. Online I've seen prices of less than half that. Is there a big
difference between brands of epoxy resin? I'm not worried about cosmetics,
just strength and durability.
I also have a question about carbon fiber and kevlar cloth. I've seen these
for sale but don't know if it's worth bothering with them. Is there a
significant difference in strength between the kevlar cloth and the
fiberglass cloth? Or is all the real strength in the resin? I'm mostly
concerned with adding support to the wooden box.
Thanks again for all the help!
Dave Cover
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan, I have a Siemens setup (along with numerous other people). I would
like to point out a few things about Siemens and high voltage systems.
1) since you are using higher voltage you can use smaller and lighter
cabling and connectors (as you point out). I think this is a mute point, as
you will require more batteries which each require connectors and cases. So
it probably a 312V (26 batteries) system with thinner cables weighs as much
as a 120V (10 batteries) system with thick cables.
2) The Siemens system *can* run on lower voltages.
3) you will have a tougher time trying to find inexpensive components
(breakers, relays, fuses) for the higher voltages. You may have to put a
few things in series.
4) the siemens equipment is very deluxe, with many programmable features
and very high quality construction (a 10 year warranty doesn't hurt either)
5) Victor does not post price lists because the exchange between the euro
and us dollar fluctuates, as well, his supply varies. Give him a call or an
email note, he will be happy to help, without any sales pressure tactics.
I have a bunch of cost/benefit info on my web site that may be of use to
you. www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Plut
Sent: August 16, 2006 9:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: My ICE Costs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: My ICE Costs
>> Hi DtAS,
>> So I noticed. I would like an AC system, but it looks like I'll have to
>> cobble it together myself piece by piece.
>> >
> Just an off
>> the cuff estimate, but I guess the voltage I'm shooting for would be
> about
>> 360v.
>
> Why do you need this high of voltage?
>
As I understand it, V*A=W, so for a given wattage motor higher V equals
lower amps.
Lower amps means all the wiring and connectors can be smaller.
Lower amps means less resistance means less losses to waste heat.
smaller *usually* means less expensive when it comes to wires and
connectors.
True?
>> > Chargers are 2-3x that much if you want ones with some smarts, but
>> > about that much (or even less) if you use something that takes human
>> > input to keep the pack alive;
>> >
>> Chargers. I had a boat once, a 40 ft trawler. I recall that I bought
> a fully
>> programmable BMS for my deep cycle "house" batteries from a marine
> store for
>> $300. This could handle 70A from my giant alternators and charged
> up my 8D
>> banks beautifully. Could something like this be adapted for EV use?
>
> For 360V? Not unless your boat had some really high voltage, too!
>
Oh, you're right there. I wasn't thinking!
>> >
>> I've been unable to find prices for Siemens AC motors off the web
> without
>> e-mailing somebody and don't want to do that because I'm not
> anywhere near
>> purchase time yet.
>
> You mean except for the price list I posted for metricmind?
>
Metricminds prices for AC Siemens all say "inquire" for the price. They DO
list MES, and others though. They list a BRUSA for $15K! So are Siemens
prices similar to MES?
Ryan G. Plut
"Common sense is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it" - G.
Bernard Shaw
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