EV Digest 5767
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Fiberglass box questions
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Fiberglass box questions
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Grants, Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape wanted for NY
state fleet.
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: iota dc/dc problem & how to drop voltage a bit
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: iota dc/dc problem & how to drop voltage a bit
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) NEC Tokin Supercaps was Re: EUROPOSITRON or was it ESMA...
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Motor, Controller, Pot Box, Fuse, Contactor, ... on e-bay for $799
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV digest 5766
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: iota dc/dc problem & how to drop voltage a bit
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Range
by "Barry Oppenheim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: IGBTs and DC controllers
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV digest 5766
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: NEC Tokin Supercaps was Re: EUROPOSITRON or was it ESMA...
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Grants, Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape wanted for NY
state fleet.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) emeter problem fixed
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape wanted for NY state fleet.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: emeter problem fixed
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) converting a Holden Combo / Barina
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) need parallel circuit to take up 15A on load test
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: iota dc/dc problem & how to drop voltage a bit
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Marine grades hold up better against UV rays if yours is exposed. All
epoxy is not created equal. But for your uses, it's almost not an issue.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the feedback. Here's the progress so far. I've got
the box mostly built. I'm using
> a spray on plastic for the inside (to protect the wood from the
electrolyte, water, etc.) I'll
> fiberglass the outside for strength and water protection.
>
> I've ordered a roll of fiberglass cloth and I have my eyes on some
epoxy resin that I will be
> ordering soon too. I can't believe how expensive it is from local
suppliers. The best I can find
> around here is about $35 for a quart of epoxy resin and almost the
same price for the hardener to
> go with it. Online I've seen prices of less than half that. Is there
a big difference between
> brands of epoxy resin? I'm not worried about cosmetics, just
strength and durability.
>
> I also have a question about carbon fiber and kevlar cloth. I've
seen these for sale but don't
> know if it's worth bothering with them. Is there a significant
difference in strength between the
> kevlar cloth and the fiberglass cloth? Or is all the real strength
in the resin? I'm mostly
> concerned with adding support to the wooden box.
>
> Thanks again for all the help!
>
> Dave Cover
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Say what??
Mike
> Kevlar is actually generally weaker than fiberglass in a composite. <
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike, Madman and All,
When I posted this I was thinking Madman or
others would go for just the $100,000 developement grants,
not nessasarily the final contract. As someone with a plug
in hybrid already built, Madman would likely win a
development grant. Maybe there is a grant writer that would
take him on on the list?
This could be used to make a specialized PFC
charger at a lower cost as it wouldn't have to work over
such a range as his PFC's now do and pay for
reseaching/hacking the hybrids computers, ect.
If nothing else one could end up with a couple
of plug in hybrids and better retro fit kits for sale!!!
Free money is hard to find.
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rich Rudman" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape
wanted for NY state fleet.
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:59:17 -0000
>What a kickass project that could be for real money too.
>
>With politics pushed aside, do you think you could keep up
>with demand? "We need 8 units for beta, in 3 weeks!" kind
>of stuff.
>
>Man, I'm so looking for a better job than I have now and
>this would be
> it. Dream on...
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman"
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Yes I would love to have the 10Megga bucks from the
>> Empire State.
>> My guess is the big money guys have already made the
>phone calls and locked
>> it down..
>>
>> Meanwhile... I have a Bunch of PiPrius kits to make and I
> have PiPrius #0
>> in the Back of my Escape.. Right now..
>> So.. I am rather serious about getting a PiEscape running
>in my hands. I've
>> had it for just over 30 days and I have 2500 miles on it.
>> She's called Sage. Clearly I didn't name her..... My
>> Redhead did.
>> I drove the Kit over to Wenatchee, then made a panic Run
>> to Portland yesterday for 6 ...year 6 PFC chassis.. I had
>$24,000 worth of product in a
>> $30K Hybrid... So.. I
>> know how the Rig drives in traffic. Not bad at all.
>> The only warning is... I have it Gravity installed.. so
>> no big brakes or smokey burn off!!!
>> Yes Campers... a Escape Hybrid will smoke the front
>tires... at will with
>> practice. Hint...why do you think I got a 2 wheel drive
>> version?? It's looking like the Nav/ 6 CD changer and
>power flow and gas mileage unit
>> is a factory installed feature only. And you just can't
>get on on a 2 wheel
>> drive.
>> Bummer... I might have to actually make a wire harness...
>> So warning if you want the Escape with the Nav and
>Hybrid display...
>> Force them to order it, or suffer with the added cost of
>leather seat$, 4
>> wheel drive , Moon roof. All th atYuppie Bling, just to
>get the display that
>> should standard on all Hybrid Fords. Hey Bill Ford...
>Toyota Does it!!... I
>> want mine and am willing to pay a grand over it's cost to
>have it installed.
>> No dice...nobody can find one or dare install one.
>Great... more work for
>> Madman.
>>
>> I have the PDF of the NY State Bid.
>> I am not interested in handling it solo. I am hoping
>somebody else contracts
>> me to make the Kits, I don't want the politics and
>> hassle. I won't get it I am too much into REAL
>production.. those that get it will
>> suck enormous funds and deliver.. What...??
>>
>> We will see what happens.. I want to keep all my options
>> open
>> And As far as New York State is concerned.. I don't need
>10 Mill...I will
>> have it designed and operating before they accept the Bid
>, With my own funds
>> and customers.
>> That 10 Mill is just going to bring out the Shisters and
>Goverment fed con
>> artists.
>> It's Not for me.
>>
>> Hey I have been telling folks everywhere, now is not the
>time for R&D.. it's
>> time for production.
>>
>> Rich Rudman
>> Manzanita Micro
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape
>wanted for NY state
>> fleet.
>>
>>
>> Madman has been notified.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> --- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Hi All,
>> > I though Madman and others may want to get
>> > into this.
>> >
>> > New York State Aims to Convert its Hybrid Fleet to
>> > Plug-Ins A new $10 million effort in New York State is
>> > geared toward converting the state's hybrid
>> > fleet-consisting mostly of Toyota Priuses and Ford
>> > Hybrid Escapes-into plug-in hybrids. The New York State
>> > Energy Research and Development Agency (NYSERDA)
>> > released a solicitation on Monday that calls for
>> > multiple awards of up to $100,000 for the development
>> > of plug-in hybrid vehicle prototypes, which will then
>> > be subject to three months of testing. Builders of
>> > successful prototype vehicles may then apply for a
>second round of funding to convert the state's fleet of
>> > hybrids into plug-in hybrids. NYSERDA estimates that
>> > the state owns between 500 and 600 hybrid cars and
>> > light trucks, and the winning bidders will need to
>> > present a viable plan to manufacture all-or a
>> > significant portion of-the plug-in conversion systems
>> > in New York State, or otherwise generate significant
>> > economic activity in the state. Proposals are due on
>> > September 18th. See NYSERDA's Program Opportunity
>> >Notice 1088
>> > Jerry Dycus
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Here's to the crazy ones.
>> The misfits.
>> The rebels.
>> The troublemakers.
>> The round pegs in the square holes.
>> The ones who see things differently
>> The ones that change the world!!
>>
>> www.RotorDesign.com
>>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], elaine chiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> hi guys.
>
> 1) I have an problem with my iota dc/dc that I can't make sense of:
>
> when I start (close the main contactor), I briefly see the full pack
> voltage of 160+V, then it sags down over 10 seconds to about 30V and
> lights come on the DCP raptor.
>
> the iota is wired after the main contactor and the voltage there is
> full pack voltage. I thought at first there was something wrong with
> the controller, but unplugging the iota brought back the full pack
> voltage and the controller was fine.
>
> I plugged the iota into AC 110, and got a consistent 13.5 vdc out,
> charging a small 12v gel cell
>
> the 13.5 V output is wired to an auxilary battery, from which all the
> accessories are wired.
>
> it's almost like there's some leak out the 13v side, but if it was a
> short, I would have expected my 12v accessory battery to go dead, or
> something more instantaneous to happen? all of the accessories are
> fused, and nothing's blown, either.
>
> where do I look next? could it be the dc/dc somehow?
>
> 2) I found a vicor that outputs around 18 volts and I want 13.5v. It
> seems that a voltage divider would be variable since the load of the
> 12v circuit would change. Can I use a zener to drop voltage, or am I
> "wasting" the energy to heat?
>
> thanks for comments
>
> elaine
> berkeley, CA
> '76 citicar
> '86 converted pickup
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> 2) I found a vicor that outputs around 18 volts and I want 13.5v. It
> seems that a voltage divider would be variable since the load of the
> 12v circuit would change. Can I use a zener to drop voltage, or am I
> "wasting" the energy to heat?
>
Most Vicor units can be trimmed as much as +10% and -50% - check specs
at www.vicr.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Was just poking around about Europositron and the mention of the Glenn
Amatucci/Telcordia patent. (Zero hits about aluminum batts on the
Telcordia site) Found that NEC Tokin has a patent from 2005 that
references the earlier patent. Don't know if it's about the same batt
chemistry, but went to the Tokin site anyway.
Tokin makes lots of stuff, including supercaps, turns out. There is a
pdf catalogue online that lists the caps they have, but that big pdf
doesn't mention one that they show here:
http://www.nec-tokin.com/english/product/supercapacitor/application02.html
or tinyurl:
http://tinyurl.com/kea7g
Specs they show are:
Max.Rated Voltage (DC) 24V
Nominal Capacitance 5F
Max. ESR (at 1kHz) 500m¶
Operating Temperature -40C to +85C
Dimension (mm) 148(W) x 72(D) x 84(H)
The applications they suggest these caps are good for include
"Automobile Engine Start-up Assist" and regen braking (and "anti-lock
brake system of freight car"...)
They also list the following features:
24V type without balance circuit realized
Rapid charging and discharging
Unlimited charging-discharging
Environment-friendly product
Wide range of the operating temperature
Long life
High shock resistance
High weatherability
No pricing, but on their pdf about RoHS compliance they list this
particular cap as "[EMAIL PROTECTED]@production".
I think someone commented in the recent ESMA thread about how their
product might be interesting in a lightweight vehicle?
Anywho, I'm not smart enough to compare the ESMA products w/this NEC
cap. But I'm thinking that NEC may already be into economies of scale
with this "little" 24v cap?
Application is a 200lb vehicle (scoot w/rider), where the vehicle is a
tribrid human/batts/cap(or caps?)... I don't have a problem tapping
about 24v vehicles (vs 120v and up), `cause `round here this is enough
volts to pass a Tesla (or WZ) in bumper-to-bumper, which is much of the
time <grin>
Hoping others here might be interested in these NEC caps (if they
aren't still outrageous in price), as a system part to ease the strain
of acceleration off the batts chemistry, and maybe soak up some regen.
And whether these caps are already showing up in auto wrecking yards
across NA. But I just don't know what 5 farads "looks like" in
practical terms (for a scoot - and whether they might be might be found
within a "scooter budget".)
`Been trying to do the math... or some of it. I *think* these NEC caps
store 1,440 joules, equal to .4watthour, but if the energy in this cap
is "blown off" as acceleration over three seconds, that's about 480wh
of power?
Thanks
Lock
Toronto
Human/electric hybrid
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
DC Power System Complete w/ Drive Motor & Monotrol
Hyster Forklift, SCR Controller, Cables, Contactor, 48V Item number:
160019606140
I don't know if this EV-100 controller is limited to 48 V, or can go up to 72
/ 84 V as some do. The motor is OK though.
This is bacisally what I had in my first EV, simply a forklift motor /
control system directly transplanted into the car.
I know the seller also has a 8" series wound lift truck motor that he wants
$199 for. Not currently on e-bay, but if you contact him, he has it (at least
he did recently). I asked him a while back to find me an 8" series wound lift
motor with extrenal shaft. He has one, but the face needs machining. Not
worth $199 + ship to me, but maybe worth it to you. The motor in this aution,
I think is a much larger motor. If it is like the one I saw at a local shop
about a year ago, it is much bigger than an 8". You should confirm though.
Steve
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What you need for on-the-spot range estimation is the
rutman range formula. In short, the range R (in km)
is given as a function of battery capacity B(of any type, in kWh,
best at the 20C level) and total vehicle weight W (in kg) by:
R = 250 B / (W^0.6)
So for instance for a 1000kg rig you will get 4km for every kWh of stored
battery energy.
For you american types who dont dig the metric system and all its attendant
elegance, there is a lucky cancellation (good thing nobody is using foot-pounds
or league-bars x ft^2 for stored energy) that makes the formula look exactly
the same in cowboy units:
R[miles] = 250 B [kWh] / (W[lbs]^.6)
so your range in miles for 10kWh of battery in a 2200lb car (thats total weight,
including the batteries) would be a cool 25 miles or so.
This formula does the right derating of range per stored kWh of battery energy
due to extra weight, its not a simple R= k B/W relation (as used by sandorsky
or the massimo rule-of-thumb) but
rather a 0.6 power of weight that comes in. Why ?
I dont know, thats just how it seems to go according to the data from
several hundred vehicles listed at the austinev.org site.
The formula is good for mopeds, bikes, cars trucks etc.
Check out the exciting full-color graphs at the yahoogroups ev
forum pictures or files link.
Hello Ryan,
The range should be longer if the vehicle is lighter. Just like any EV
battery to weight ratio.
...snip...
From: "Ryan Plut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: My ICE Costs
> Roland,
> Interesting. So if it's "5 to 10 miles for a 5 to 10 ton vehicle", what
> happens if the vehicle is only 2 tons? Longer ranges?
> I can't afford them anyway; I'm just blue-skying.
Jeremy Rutman
Technion Physics Dep't.
Haifa 32000 Israel
phone 972 4 8293669
fax 972 4 8295755
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
elaine chiu wrote:
hi guys.
1) I have an problem with my iota dc/dc that I can't make sense of:
when I start (close the main contactor), I briefly see the full pack
voltage of 160+V, then it sags down over 10 seconds to about 30V and
lights come on the DCP raptor.
the iota is wired after the main contactor and the voltage there is
full pack voltage. I thought at first there was something wrong with
the controller, but unplugging the iota brought back the full pack
voltage and the controller was fine.
Are you saying that your main pack voltage sags to 30V from 160V, but
only when the IOTA is attached? Are you seeing 30V on the IOTA/DCP side
of the contactor?
Is the vehicle drivable without the IOTA attached?
I plugged the iota into AC 110, and got a consistent 13.5 vdc out,
charging a small 12v gel cell
the 13.5 V output is wired to an auxilary battery, from which all the
accessories are wired.
it's almost like there's some leak out the 13v side, but if it was a
short, I would have expected my 12v accessory battery to go dead, or
something more instantaneous to happen? all of the accessories are
fused, and nothing's blown, either.
where do I look next? could it be the dc/dc somehow?
2) I found a vicor that outputs around 18 volts and I want 13.5v. It
seems that a voltage divider would be variable since the load of the
12v circuit would change. Can I use a zener to drop voltage, or am I
"wasting" the energy to heat?
Most of the Vicors are adjustable +110/-50% using trimming resistors,
meaning you can achieve a range of 9 to 19.8V without wasting any
energy. If you know the exact model # of the Vicor module, I can tell
you for sure. The Vicors are very highly spoken of -- provided you have
the correct model, it's hard to go wrong. Don't even consider a zener
or resistor divider -- it's unworkable at the power levels needed for
your DC/DC
thanks for comments
elaine
berkeley, CA
'76 citicar
'86 converted pickup
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is the formula based on range at 100% DOD, 80% DOD, or 50% DOD?
Barry Oppenheim
-----Original Message-----
What you need for on-the-spot range estimation is the
rutman range formula. In short, the range R (in km)
is given as a function of battery capacity B(of any type, in kWh,
best at the 20C level) and total vehicle weight W (in kg) by:
R = 250 B / (W^0.6)
So for instance for a 1000kg rig you will get 4km for every kWh of stored
battery energy.
For you american types who dont dig the metric system and all its attendant
elegance, there is a lucky cancellation (good thing nobody is using
foot-pounds
or league-bars x ft^2 for stored energy) that makes the formula look exactly
the same in cowboy units:
R[miles] = 250 B [kWh] / (W[lbs]^.6)
so your range in miles for 10kWh of battery in a 2200lb car (thats total
weight,
including the batteries) would be a cool 25 miles or so.
This formula does the right derating of range per stored kWh of battery
energy
due to extra weight, its not a simple R= k B/W relation (as used by
sandorsky
or the massimo rule-of-thumb) but
rather a 0.6 power of weight that comes in. Why ?
I dont know, thats just how it seems to go according to the data from
several hundred vehicles listed at the austinev.org site.
The formula is good for mopeds, bikes, cars trucks etc.
Check out the exciting full-color graphs at the yahoogroups ev
forum pictures or files link.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Depth of discharge..
DoD
In percent of a full %100 percent charge.
a %80 DOD is %80 of the available Amphours taken out of the battery.
Simple....
I use Kwhr, as a purist.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 5:59 AM
Subject: RE: IGBTs and DC controllers
> I didn't notice....
> Has anybody posted the actual meaning of DoD as it pertains to EV's?
Depth
> of Discharge.
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
>
> GE I-5
> Blossvale, NY
>
>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Ryan Plut
> > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 12:33 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: IGBTs and DC controllers
> >
> > THANKS to all who replied! My learning curve is flattening!
> > Ryan G. Plut
> > Common sense is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it; -
> G.
> >
> > Bernard Shaw
> >
>
> >
> >
> > OK, everybody:
> > I've been to www.evparts.com and seen their FAQ list, but STILL can't
> > find this stuff. What do these terms stand for:
> > SOC=State of Charge?
> > PMSM=Permanent Magnet Series Motor?
> > IGBT=Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor (IGBT)
> > DOD= Only thing I can think of is Department of Defense
> > UQM= UQM Technologiess?
> > http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/uqm_deere_hybrid_tractor.html
> > BLDC= Brushless DC (BLDC) Motor
> > IIRC= If I Recal/Remember Correctly Internet Acronyms Dictionary
> > Thanks!
> > Ryan G. Plut
>
>
> ________________________________________________
> Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.9
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
DOH! Thanks Hump. With your inductive control idea, perhaps even this brain
fart will rise.
-Jay
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 07:06:21 -0600
To: [email protected]
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Backyard Blower Builds
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
But you want your blower to operate inversely with the drive motor. At the
slower drive motor speeds it is consuming more current and producing more
heat so the blower needs to run faster, as the drive motor speeds up the
current drops and thus the motor runs cooler and the blower can throttle
down.
Hmm... sounds like a rather simply inductive type control for the blower.
Measure the drive current not voltage and run the blower proportional to the
current level.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
GE I-5
Blossvale, NY
>
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM.
All on demand. Always Free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I recall correctly, 1F is 1-amp for 1-second, so a 5F cap isn't much
to get excited about, although 24v is impressive. I have some 50F caps,
but only 2.5v I played with in my RC car.
EPCOS has some 5000F caps at 2.5V,
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T062/1089.pdf
The datasheets for this cap says 3.5Ah capacity. $300 ea.
You'd need 50 for 120v = $15,000
They have some 200F caps, only $30, * 50 for 120v is only $1500,
which if I'm right above (ee math wiz will correct me), would give you
200amps for 1 second. Might be neat trick for drag racing to dump a
pile of amps to the motor for a second or two.
Jack
Lock Hughes wrote:
Was just poking around about Europositron and the mention of the Glenn
Amatucci/Telcordia patent. (Zero hits about aluminum batts on the
Telcordia site) Found that NEC Tokin has a patent from 2005 that
references the earlier patent. Don't know if it's about the same batt
chemistry, but went to the Tokin site anyway.
Tokin makes lots of stuff, including supercaps, turns out. There is a
pdf catalogue online that lists the caps they have, but that big pdf
doesn't mention one that they show here:
http://www.nec-tokin.com/english/product/supercapacitor/application02.html
or tinyurl:
http://tinyurl.com/kea7g
Specs they show are:
Max.Rated Voltage (DC) 24V
Nominal Capacitance 5F
Max. ESR (at 1kHz) 500mĦ
Operating Temperature -40�‹C to +85�‹C
Dimension (mm) 148(W) x 72(D) x 84(H)
The applications they suggest these caps are good for include
"Automobile Engine Start-up Assist" and regen braking (and "anti-lock
brake system of freight car"...)
They also list the following features:
24V type without balance circuit realized
Rapid charging and discharging
Unlimited charging-discharging
Environment-friendly product
Wide range of the operating temperature
Long life
High shock resistance
High weatherability
No pricing, but on their pdf about RoHS compliance they list this
particular cap as "[EMAIL PROTECTED]@production".
I think someone commented in the recent ESMA thread about how their
product might be interesting in a lightweight vehicle?
Anywho, I'm not smart enough to compare the ESMA products w/this NEC
cap. But I'm thinking that NEC may already be into economies of scale
with this "little" 24v cap?
Application is a 200lb vehicle (scoot w/rider), where the vehicle is a
tribrid human/batts/cap(or caps?)... I don't have a problem tapping
about 24v vehicles (vs 120v and up), `cause `round here this is enough
volts to pass a Tesla (or WZ) in bumper-to-bumper, which is much of the
time <grin>
Hoping others here might be interested in these NEC caps (if they
aren't still outrageous in price), as a system part to ease the strain
of acceleration off the batts chemistry, and maybe soak up some regen.
And whether these caps are already showing up in auto wrecking yards
across NA. But I just don't know what 5 farads "looks like" in
practical terms (for a scoot - and whether they might be might be found
within a "scooter budget".)
`Been trying to do the math... or some of it. I *think* these NEC caps
store 1,440 joules, equal to .4watthour, but if the energy in this cap
is "blown off" as acceleration over three seconds, that's about 480wh
of power?
Thanks
Lock
Toronto
Human/electric hybrid
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cheaper PFC40HM..???
I don't think so....
The meter and the thermal spreader and the 40 amp breakers and the #6 gage
wire from end to end...
Doesn't make for cheaper anything.
This charger is one serious chunk of gear.. it's the heart of PHEV power
processor and the trick high speed grid feed charger.
This enables 20 minute recharges... a key feature for REAL world useable
EVs.
We could use a few 100 unit orders to get the price down... But that's still
in the future.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 11:55 AM
Subject: Grants, Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape wanted for
NY state fleet.
>
> Hi Mike, Madman and All,
> When I posted this I was thinking Madman or
> others would go for just the $100,000 developement grants,
> not nessasarily the final contract. As someone with a plug
> in hybrid already built, Madman would likely win a
> development grant. Maybe there is a grant writer that would
> take him on on the list?
> This could be used to make a specialized PFC
> charger at a lower cost as it wouldn't have to work over
> such a range as his PFC's now do and pay for
> reseaching/hacking the hybrids computers, ect.
> If nothing else one could end up with a couple
> of plug in hybrids and better retro fit kits for sale!!!
> Free money is hard to find.
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Rich Rudman" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape
> wanted for NY state fleet.
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:59:17 -0000
>
> >What a kickass project that could be for real money too.
> >
> >With politics pushed aside, do you think you could keep up
> >with demand? "We need 8 units for beta, in 3 weeks!" kind
> >of stuff.
> >
> >Man, I'm so looking for a better job than I have now and
> >this would be
> > it. Dream on...
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman"
> >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Yes I would love to have the 10Megga bucks from the
> >> Empire State.
> >> My guess is the big money guys have already made the
> >phone calls and locked
> >> it down..
> >>
> >> Meanwhile... I have a Bunch of PiPrius kits to make and I
> > have PiPrius #0
> >> in the Back of my Escape.. Right now..
> >> So.. I am rather serious about getting a PiEscape running
> >in my hands. I've
> >> had it for just over 30 days and I have 2500 miles on it.
> >> She's called Sage. Clearly I didn't name her..... My
> >> Redhead did.
> >> I drove the Kit over to Wenatchee, then made a panic Run
> >> to Portland yesterday for 6 ...year 6 PFC chassis.. I had
> >$24,000 worth of product in a
> >> $30K Hybrid... So.. I
> >> know how the Rig drives in traffic. Not bad at all.
> >> The only warning is... I have it Gravity installed.. so
> >> no big brakes or smokey burn off!!!
> >> Yes Campers... a Escape Hybrid will smoke the front
> >tires... at will with
> >> practice. Hint...why do you think I got a 2 wheel drive
> >> version?? It's looking like the Nav/ 6 CD changer and
> >power flow and gas mileage unit
> >> is a factory installed feature only. And you just can't
> >get on on a 2 wheel
> >> drive.
> >> Bummer... I might have to actually make a wire harness...
> >> So warning if you want the Escape with the Nav and
> >Hybrid display...
> >> Force them to order it, or suffer with the added cost of
> >leather seat$, 4
> >> wheel drive , Moon roof. All th atYuppie Bling, just to
> >get the display that
> >> should standard on all Hybrid Fords. Hey Bill Ford...
> >Toyota Does it!!... I
> >> want mine and am willing to pay a grand over it's cost to
> >have it installed.
> >> No dice...nobody can find one or dare install one.
> >Great... more work for
> >> Madman.
> >>
> >> I have the PDF of the NY State Bid.
> >> I am not interested in handling it solo. I am hoping
> >somebody else contracts
> >> me to make the Kits, I don't want the politics and
> >> hassle. I won't get it I am too much into REAL
> >production.. those that get it will
> >> suck enormous funds and deliver.. What...??
> >>
> >> We will see what happens.. I want to keep all my options
> >> open
> >> And As far as New York State is concerned.. I don't need
> >10 Mill...I will
> >> have it designed and operating before they accept the Bid
> >, With my own funds
> >> and customers.
> >> That 10 Mill is just going to bring out the Shisters and
> >Goverment fed con
> >> artists.
> >> It's Not for me.
> >>
> >> Hey I have been telling folks everywhere, now is not the
> >time for R&D.. it's
> >> time for production.
> >>
> >> Rich Rudman
> >> Manzanita Micro
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape
> >wanted for NY state
> >> fleet.
> >>
> >>
> >> Madman has been notified.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> --- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Hi All,
> >> > I though Madman and others may want to get
> >> > into this.
> >> >
> >> > New York State Aims to Convert its Hybrid Fleet to
> >> > Plug-Ins A new $10 million effort in New York State is
> >> > geared toward converting the state's hybrid
> >> > fleet-consisting mostly of Toyota Priuses and Ford
> >> > Hybrid Escapes-into plug-in hybrids. The New York State
> >> > Energy Research and Development Agency (NYSERDA)
> >> > released a solicitation on Monday that calls for
> >> > multiple awards of up to $100,000 for the development
> >> > of plug-in hybrid vehicle prototypes, which will then
> >> > be subject to three months of testing. Builders of
> >> > successful prototype vehicles may then apply for a
> >second round of funding to convert the state's fleet of
> >> > hybrids into plug-in hybrids. NYSERDA estimates that
> >> > the state owns between 500 and 600 hybrid cars and
> >> > light trucks, and the winning bidders will need to
> >> > present a viable plan to manufacture all-or a
> >> > significant portion of-the plug-in conversion systems
> >> > in New York State, or otherwise generate significant
> >> > economic activity in the state. Proposals are due on
> >> > September 18th. See NYSERDA's Program Opportunity
> >> >Notice 1088
> >> > Jerry Dycus
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Here's to the crazy ones.
> >> The misfits.
> >> The rebels.
> >> The troublemakers.
> >> The round pegs in the square holes.
> >> The ones who see things differently
> >> The ones that change the world!!
> >>
> >> www.RotorDesign.com
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Months ago I asked why my emeter kept reseting.
the Common answer was a loose wire or install a capacitor.
After I watered my accesory battery, and haven't had a reset since then, I
guess that's the solution, because I didn't do any wire fixes or DC/DC
adjustments.
Since it typically reset upon slowing down, I guess the battery acid
sloshed forward causing a drop in voltage and thus a reset of the emeter
that my DCP DC/DC 12 V converter couldn't handle?
Does that sound plausible? though it doesn't seem plausible, because
wouldn't my contactor open up too, lights fade, air blower slow down.
On the DCP, the Emeter is connected to isolated and different terminals
than the accesory battery is hooked to.
Perhaps a mystery never to be solved.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey this is MY dream.!!
I might get to play after a dozzen years in this EV industry.
I am not ready to hire on the Whole EV list...yet.....
Gotta go cut 2 water cooled PFC40ML.....metered...liquid cooled....
Yea...10Kw in a PFC20 case.... these babies are the current tour de Force
for too much power in too small a space.
You all should see the actual assembly... it looks like a small fusion
reactor... Artwork like...Dad had fun with it!! Water cooled polished
aluminum, torroidal inductors syemtrical cooling fan and shroud, Shinny
dipped copper windings, Man.. I didn't even get a picture of if... I was
moving too fast picking up 6 chassis and then heading home.
Sage... had about 750 lbs of battery, case and chager boxes in her, and 4
spare Hawker Aero 26 in the foot whells.. man I am loving my Hybrid to
death.
Monday on the way back from the Wenatchee AVI meeting... I got her up to 90
mph going UP Stevens pass. With all the stuff and Steve Lough on board.
Not bad for a Eco rig..
I still want to see 224 Hp combined snort.... feels like it...
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rich Rudman" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape wanted for NY state
fleet.
> What a kickass project that could be for real money too.
>
> With politics pushed aside, do you think you could keep up with
> demand? "We need 8 units for beta, in 3 weeks!" kind of stuff.
>
> Man, I'm so looking for a better job than I have now and this would be
> it. Dream on...
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Yes I would love to have the 10Megga bucks from the Empire State.
> >
> > My guess is the big money guys have already made the phone calls and
> locked
> > it down..
> >
> > Meanwhile... I have a Bunch of PiPrius kits to make and I have
> PiPrius #0
> > in the Back of my Escape.. Right now..
> > So.. I am rather serious about getting a PiEscape running in my
> hands. I've
> > had it for just over 30 days and I have 2500 miles on it.
> > She's called Sage. Clearly I didn't name her..... My Redhead did.
> >
> > I drove the Kit over to Wenatchee, then made a panic Run to Portland
> > yesterday for 6 ...year 6 PFC chassis.. I had $24,000 worth of
> product in a
> > $30K Hybrid... So.. I
> > know how the Rig drives in traffic. Not bad at all.
> > The only warning is... I have it Gravity installed.. so no big brakes or
> > smokey burn off!!!
> > Yes Campers... a Escape Hybrid will smoke the front tires... at will
> with
> > practice. Hint...why do you think I got a 2 wheel drive version??
> > It's looking like the Nav/ 6 CD changer and power flow and gas
> mileage unit
> > is a factory installed feature only. And you just can't get on on a
> 2 wheel
> > drive.
> > Bummer... I might have to actually make a wire harness...
> > So warning if you want the Escape with the Nav and Hybrid
> display...
> > Force them to order it, or suffer with the added cost of leather
> seat$, 4
> > wheel drive , Moon roof. All th atYuppie Bling, just to get the
> display that
> > should standard on all Hybrid Fords. Hey Bill Ford... Toyota Does
> it!!... I
> > want mine and am willing to pay a grand over it's cost to have it
> installed.
> > No dice...nobody can find one or dare install one. Great... more
> work for
> > Madman.
> >
> > I have the PDF of the NY State Bid.
> > I am not interested in handling it solo. I am hoping somebody else
> contracts
> > me to make the Kits, I don't want the politics and hassle.
> > I won't get it I am too much into REAL production.. those that get
> it will
> > suck enormous funds and deliver.. What...??
> >
> > We will see what happens.. I want to keep all my options open
> >
> > And As far as New York State is concerned.. I don't need 10 Mill...I
> will
> > have it designed and operating before they accept the Bid, With my
> own funds
> > and customers.
> > That 10 Mill is just going to bring out the Shisters and Goverment
> fed con
> > artists.
> > It's Not for me.
> >
> > Hey I have been telling folks everywhere, now is not the time for
> R&D.. it's
> > time for production.
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:02 AM
> > Subject: Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape wanted for
> NY state
> > fleet.
> >
> >
> > Madman has been notified.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > --- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > > I though Madman and others may want to get into
> > > this.
> > >
> > > New York State Aims to Convert its Hybrid Fleet to Plug-Ins
> > > A new $10 million effort in New York State is geared toward
> > > converting the state's hybrid fleet-consisting mostly of
> > > Toyota Priuses and Ford Hybrid Escapes-into plug-in
> > > hybrids. The New York State Energy Research and Development
> > > Agency (NYSERDA) released a solicitation on Monday that
> > > calls for multiple awards of up to $100,000 for the
> > > development of plug-in hybrid vehicle prototypes, which will
> > > then be subject to three months of testing. Builders of
> > > successful prototype vehicles may then apply for a second
> > > round of funding to convert the state's fleet of hybrids
> > > into plug-in hybrids. NYSERDA estimates that the state owns
> > > between 500 and 600 hybrid cars and light trucks, and the
> > > winning bidders will need to present a viable plan to
> > > manufacture all-or a significant portion of-the plug-in
> > > conversion systems in New York State, or otherwise generate
> > > significant economic activity in the state. Proposals are
> > > due on September 18th. See NYSERDA's Program Opportunity
> > > Notice 1088
> > >
> > > Jerry Dycus
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Here's to the crazy ones.
> > The misfits.
> > The rebels.
> > The troublemakers.
> > The round pegs in the square holes.
> > The ones who see things differently
> > The ones that change the world!!
> >
> > www.RotorDesign.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 17, 2006, at 2:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Months ago I asked why my emeter kept reseting.
the Common answer was a loose wire or install a capacitor.
After I watered my accesory battery, and haven't had a reset since
then, I
guess that's the solution, because I didn't do any wire fixes or DC/DC
adjustments.
Did you clean the battery as part of the watering?
Perhaps you cleared up a ground fault.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anybody in Australia done a EV conversion on a Holden Combo or
Barina?
If so, I would like to get in contact to get a few pointers if possible
Peter Ring
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm trying to decide how I want to go about taking up the
15-or-so amps of current that a 6V US125 battery sags during a
roughly 75A load test (from beginning to end at 5.25V shutdown).
When I've tested individual 6V batteries in the past on a
locomotive resistor, I've usually set things up so I start at
about 83A and end up at about 67-68A, with much of the test at
about 75A (kind of the center point).
Now I'm working up to doing the whole car pack (96V) at once at a
constant 75A (to compare with the manufacturer's spec of 125
minutes @ 75A), trying to characterize how the batteries are
doing (looking for weak ones) and building a history. I've got
three locomotive resistors hooked in series and dunked in a big
tomato juice (or somesuch) tub full of water (we call this the
"Xmas tree"), and after some modifications and adding a 100A
fuse, I am doing sustained runs sagging through 75A with this
device, pulling about 6-7KW.
I figure that using incandescent light bulbs may be the easiest
way to go to handle the 15A difference. 200W light bulbs seem to
the largest I can find at such places like Safeway and even Home
Depot. About $2-2.50 a bulb. I already have one light table on
hand with six parallel sockets that I've mostly used in the past
to test 12V batteries with 12V light bulbs. Last night on the
variac/rectifier, one 100W light bulb would pull 0.72A at 102VDC,
0.67A at 96VDC, and about 0.64A at 84VDC, which is the 5.25V
point for the 96V pack. Double these amp values for a 200W
light, so 1.2A at 84VDC, and it looks like I will need 12 200W
light bulbs at about $25-30 total, so another 6-bulb light table
with sockets for probably another $25, and once I do all the
crimps and everything, I ought to be about ready to go. Hook the
two light tables in parallel with the resistors and I should be
ready to go.
I have watched people test 12V batteries and maintain constant
100A current by using a chicken finger (it gets hot) and moving a
tap down the resistor. I'd rather screw in light bulbs when
doing a 96V pack. Would there be another way to go?
Thanks in advance,
Chuck
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 17, 2006, at 9:58 AM, elaine chiu wrote:
when I start (close the main contactor), I briefly see the full pack
voltage of 160+V, then it sags down over 10 seconds to about 30V and
lights come on the DCP raptor.
the iota is wired after the main contactor and the voltage there is
full pack voltage. I thought at first there was something wrong with
the controller, but unplugging the iota brought back the full pack
voltage and the controller was fine.
Please disconnect the DC>DC from that position now before you hurt the
DCP controller!
The DCP tries to precharge *before* closing the main contactor. The
precharge resistor is also trying to power the Iota when its connected
between the main contactor and the controller. This draws to much power
for the poor precharge circuit so the voltage doesn't come up on the
DCP. Seeing this the DCP doesn't allow the main contactor to close and
throws up the trouble lights.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
