EV Digest 6539
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(New UK EV charge point at Cribbs Causeway Mall)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(La Poste 5 year plan to replace 48k vehicle fleet w/ EVs)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(UK Taxman mulls electric car conundrum)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Jaguar XJ6 EV?
by Finn John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(P300K Pinoy Philippine Electric Vehicle)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Jaguar XJ6 EV?
by Finn John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Economics of balancing amps
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Nice AC motors on E-bay
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Voltmeter
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Curtis 1231C squealing solution
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: FWD friction
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: ebay ac motor
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Replacing the batteries in a Gen I Prius
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: OT: All of original Tesla patents
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: OT: All of original Tesla patents
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Reva is the highest selling electric car in the world
by Gil Dawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Reva is the highest selling electric car in the world
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Reva is the highest selling electric car in the world
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Precharge alternatives
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Reva is the highest selling electric car in the world
by david woolard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Electric Cars: The Next Big Thing [mobile Magazine]
by Joseph Lado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Voltmeter
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: Voltmeter
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) I have been running experiments with high cap NiMH in parallel with AGM
Lead Acid
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Voltmeter
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(New UK EV charge point at Cribbs Causeway Mall)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bristol/content/articles/2007/03/07/chargingpoint_feature.shtml
New electric car charge point for The Mall 07/03/07
The Mall at Cribbs Causeway, near Bristol, has installed the
South West's first public electric car charging points.
The two bays with charging points will be in the centre's
underground K car park and will be in use from lunchtime on
Saturday, 10 March.
There are other charging points around the country is London,
West Sussex and Scotland.
The launch of the points is being supported by the Bristol branch
of the Battery Vehicle Society.
On Saturday, the group will display some of the types of
battery-powered vehicles available including Microcar's four
seater, vans and scooters.
Vehicle manufacturers will also be offering test drives at the
event.
"Electric vehicles are a breeze to own and maintain," says Nikki
Bloomfield from the Battery Vehicle Society.
"It costs me 1.5 pence per mile to drive mine and I never have to
queue for petrol. If everyone with two cars or who never drove
more than 40 miles to work used an EV for the school run or local
commuting, then Bristol would halve its carbon footprint
overnight and save motorists hundreds of pounds in maintenance
and fuel costs."
The society is in talks to add further charging points around
Bristol.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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EVLN(La Poste 5 year plan to replace 48k vehicle fleet w/ EVs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.environmentalleader.com/2007/03/07/france-plans-to-replace-48000-vehicle-postal-fleet-with-evs/
Mar 07 2007
France Plans to Replace 48,000-Vehicle Postal Fleet with EVs
Frances state-run postal service, La Poste, is working on a
five-year plan to replace the bulk of its 48,000-vehicle fleet
with electric cars, The Wall Street Journal reports (via The
Energy Blog).
The cars La Poste used were developed by Société de Véhicules
Électriques, controlled by aerospace tycoon Serge Dassault, and
were outfitted with a specially designed lithium-ion battery
developed by a joint venture of Milwaukee car-parts maker Johnson
Controls and French battery company Saft Groupe.
SVE has yet to settle on a price for its electric car, and it
isnt clear how much La Poste will have to pay to increase its
fleet. But the car will be significantly more expensive than a
traditional gasoline-powered vehicle because of the high cost of
the lithium-ion battery, which La Poste says would account for
about 60 percent of the unit price. The mail company says it will
save on operating expenses because charging the electric car with
electricity costs about one-sixth what it would spend to fill up
the tank with gasoline.
© 2006-2007 Fast Trike Media LLC
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(UK Taxman mulls electric car conundrum)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.accountancyage.com/accountancyage/news/2184997/taxman-mulls-electric-car
Taxman mulls electric car conundrum
The taxman is devising an ad-hoc tax regime for electric Smart
Cars, Accountancy Age understands
by Kevin Reed [of accountancyage.com ] 08 Mar 2007
Though only 100 of the electric vehicles have so far been sold,
the taxman is wrestling with how to value the vehicles energy
use for tax purposes.
Conventional vehicles allow taxpayers to claim back fuel costs
against tax at between 9p and 16p a mile. But since the cars are
effectively 'plugged' in before driving, it is unclear what costs
can be claimed back.
Paul Jackson, director of Fleet software provider Miles
consultancy, owns one of the Smart cars, and told Accountancy Age
that he was negotiating a reclaim for fuel costs.
HMRC told me to send on my electricity bill, but I charge the
car in different places. Theyve not really thought about
electric car rates, they just dont know how to calculate it,
said Jackson.
Jackson hopes to get a discount to reflect the cars
environmentally friendly status, in line with the governments
aim to encourage green practices through the tax system. HMRC
declined to comment.
VNU Business Publications Ltd., 32-34 Broadwick St., London W1A 2HG
© 1995-2007 All rights reserved
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not yet. Does he have an e-mail address? Maybe I can drop him a line.
Thanks!
--Finn
--------------------------------------------------------
Vote for GRIDLOCK in '08! Remember, NONE OF THEM can be trusted!
----- Original Message ----
From: Will Beckett (becketts) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 12:17:42 AM
Subject: RE: Jaguar XJ6 EV?
Have you run into Otmar yet? He lives in Corvallis now. He is very helpful
showing people how to do conversions.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Finn John
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:58 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Jaguar XJ6 EV?
Hi everybody! My name's Finn John, I live about 10 miles out of Corvallis,
Ore., where I work, and I'm making plans to have some sort of electric
commuter vehicle before the end of this summer. Would any of you guys have
time to give me a bit of advice on the whole thing? Sorry if I'm asking
stupid questions, but I had to start somewhere.
Initially I wanted to find an old Fiat 500 or similar 900-pound unit with a
dead motor and go from there, but then I realized I really don't use my
Jaguar (an '84 Series 3, given to me by my dad, sentimental value, etc.) for
anything other than commuting and taking my son to school. My wife has a
Honda hybrid that we use for all our longer trips. And to top it off, the
Jag's engine at 220,000 miles is starting to show signs of needing to be
rebuilt.
So, thinks I, maybe I should look at converting the Jag.
Now, this is a 4,000-pound car, heavier than most of the electric
conversions I've been able to track down data on. But the smog-tuned
4.2-liter Jaguar I-6 only puts out around 100 peak horsepower in top
condition, and I'm probably only getting 80 out of it now. That's not too
far off of the peak power outputs of some of the 9" DC motors. I guess I'd
have to run 144 volts through it to get that, which would mean buying a few
extra Optima Red Tops, but I could handle that.
So my first question is, does that sound like it could be done? And if so,
would it have the 30-mile range I need to get to work and back?
My next question is, can I run an electric motor through an automatic
transmission? The car has a Borg-Warner Model 66, a fairly inefficient
3-speed slushbox pushing a 2.88:1 rear end. Would this drivetrain absorb too
much of the motor's output to effectively drive the car?
Fourth question: Anybody have a ball-park guess as to how many miles per KwH
I'd be looking at with a car like this? Nothing precise, just trying to get
some idea of what it'll cost to run. If it's high enough, it may actually
pencil to convert a smaller car and keep the Jag intact. I don't need much
in the way of performance, 50 mph will do. Most of my commute is on back
roads.
Thanks a million for any help and advice you can give!
--Finn
____________________________________________________________________________
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Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(P300K Pinoy Philippine Electric Vehicle)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.gmanews.tv/story/33530/Groups-link-up-to-produce-P300000-Pinoy-electric-car
Groups link to produce P300K Pinoy electric car
03/08/2007 | 05:15 PM
Several government and private groups have linked together to
manufacture the Philippine Electric Vehicle (PEV) which will run
exclusively on automobile batteries.
This was revealed by Roel John Judilla, an engineer and director
of Mapua Institute of Technology's Alumni Liaison Office, who
said that a prototype of the vehicle has already been finished
and set to be dispatched to the Cavite Export Processing Zone.
We have proven that it can be done, so now we are developing a
more efficient technology," Judilla said.
On Wednesday, he said that representatives of Francisco Motors
Phils., Philippine Batteries Inc., Asahi Glass Philippines,
Yazaki-Torres Manufacturing, Yokohama Tire Philippines Inc. and
Sun Power Corp. - which would provide the solar panels to charge
the batteries - Mapua and government agencies formalized their
commitment to the project.
The private firms will provide the vehicle body and chassis,
batteries, safety glass, wiring harness and tires.
Mapua has been tasked to develop the technology while the
Philippine Council for Industry and Energy Research and
Development will initially manage the project's funds.
Representatives of the said firms signed a memorandum of
agreement with the Philippine Economic Zone Authority (Peza) and
the Department of Science and Technology (DOST) for the project
Wednesday.
Judilla said they are currently negotiating with three other
private groups to raise additional capital for manufacturing and
operating expenses, adding that they need at least $2 million to
manufacture the initial 50 units of the PEV.
The PEV will tested in select Peza sites where they would be used
as service vehicles for the workers.
The prototype unit is powered by 15 automotive batteries and can
run for 80 kilometers when fully charged.
However, Judilla said they still have to find a way to save on
the consumption of the power as the prototype consumes energy
even if it is not running.
Aside from this, Judilla said additional capital is needed for
the acquisition of more solar panels to charge additional units.
By using solar panels, the PEVs will be 50 percent more cost
efficient than the vehicles running on conventional engines.
Judilla said the development of the PEV will mean a lot for the
domestic manufacturers of auto parts as 70 percent of its
material would be sourced locally while electric motors and
controls, which cost $3,000, will have to be imported.
The prototype PEV entailed P600,000 in production cost.
However, Judilla said once they start producing more units
through their assembly lines, the cost per unit would go down to
as low as P300,000 per unit. - GMANews.TV
All Rights Reserved. 2006 © GMA Network Inc.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark, thanks for the thoughtful and useful comments. Do you use an AC or DC
system for your S10?
Other comments are below:
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Brueggemann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 11:54:39 AM
Subject: Re: Jaguar XJ6 EV?
> the Jag's engine at 220,000 miles is starting to show signs
> of needing to be rebuilt.
Which also means the chassis has seen 220K miles, implying
that it will need attention too, 'specially if you're
thinking of adding another 1000lbs of weight to it.
Most of the major chassis components have been rebuilt or replaced in the last
50,000 miles. The major exception is the front end, which needs bushings and a
new steering rack ... but I've got to do that either way.
> thinks I, maybe I should look at converting the Jag.
I would recommend against it, because it's a somewhat
difficult vehicle to support for another 10 or so years
that it will be electric. You just can't go to Pep Boys
or the boneyard and get stuff for it. Making any vehicle
into an EV doesn't magically transform it into a new car,
whatever issues exist or occur will have to be dealt with,
ICE or EV. If you don't want to deal with oddball chassis
issues you might be better off with a different vehicle.
There's a surprising amount of parts for these cars out there. I've needed
things from boneyards in the past and never had a problem finding them. True,
it will likely be more expensive and difficult than something more practical,
like a Geo Metro or VW Rabbit, but then there's that sentimental value to
consider ...
> Jaguar I-6 only puts out around 100 peak horsepower
> I'm probably only getting 80 out of it now.
> That's not too far off of the peak power outputs of
> some of the 9" DC motors.
But, consider the vehicle will weigh about 1000lbs more
when it's an EV. Any less weight due to fewer batteries
would mean you wouldn't get the range you're looking for.
Put 1000lbs of sandbags in the trunk and back seat and drive
around with it, and see if you're happy with that level
of performance and handling.
Now, this is a topic on which I could use some better data. I'd figured on an
array of 12 batteries, initially red-tops but I hear that's a bad idea -- at 75
pounds each, that's 900 pounds, plus the motor weight. But a fully-dressed Jag
XK 4.2 is probably accounting for a full 700 pounds. I was figuring the car
would weigh an extra 500, tops -- which would be like running around town with
a couple burly passengers in the back. Am I underestimating my battery load?
If you're willing to deal with the idea of having to
support this vehicle and don't mind hacking up a
sentimental object, you can certainly make it into an
EV. There is something to be said for using a chassis
that's already bought and paid for, as opposed to
spending additional funds to get a different one.
Your greatest challenge will be battery choice and
placement in the chassis, so consider that carefully
before you start tearing into the vehicle. After
that, range and speed are a matter of calculation and
you can readily determine if they will meet your
performance and budget requirements.
I hope this isn't too dumb a question but how can I access the info to use to
calculate speed and range with the various drivetrain options? I haven't been
able to find that kind of basic nut-and-bolt info on-line. Or do I need to be
getting a book?
Thanks again for the help!
--Finn
Mark "EV Basher" Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
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--- Begin Message ---
I am gonna agree with Lee here. I think a regulator based BMS fixes only
one problem. It allows all the batteries in a series string to get to
the same state of full. The shuttleing system could help compensate for
different capacities or even just differences in internal resistance.
Take a scenario where 3 batteries out of 24 have twice the resistance as
the ones next to it. The regulators allow the charger to safely get them
all full. Now I begin to drive home. The first stoplight mile I use, for
example, 5% from most of the batteries 4% motive 1% lost, but those 3
see 6% drop. By the 13th mile I must stop or I damage those 3. While
the others are good for 16 miles
Now we charge shuttle. After the first mile we come to a stop, about
1/7% is taken from the other 21 batteries and equalizes the 3. That
works out to 14.6miles and all batteries are at the same state of discharge.
This was just a math exercise, the real world may be more or less dramatic.
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If I could get one for about $500, I would want to try it. I am pretty
sure that 1 day at the local tranny shop and I can find what components
ford was re-using. The most I would need to do is to create the housing
for it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7 Mar 2007 at 21:06, Bruce wrote:
> you want to keep the full battery pack
> voltage out of the passenger cabin for safety reasons. How do you have a
> voltmeter on the dashboard then?
Most people just fuse the line. It's not the best answer, I'll admit.
Brusa AC drive inverters (at least the older ones I'm familiar with) have
voltmeter and ammeter drivers that provide isolation so that, at least on
this account, no battery high voltage need be brought into the cockpit.
On the AMC-2xx and AMC-3xx inverter ranges, the builtin voltmeter drivers
supplied 40mv / v - 4v (meaning that the cockpit voltmeter is fed 0 volts
when the battery is 100v, and 2 volts when the battery is 150v).
The ammeter drivers supplied 16mv / A; thus when 50 amps of battery current
flows the inverter supplies 0.8 volts to the cockpit ammeter movement.
These inverters also had electric speedometer and odometer drives built in.
Brusa has generally designed their EV components with safety and regulatory
approval in mind. Of course, they are not cheap.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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On 8 Mar 2007 at 5:59, Ralph Merwin wrote:
> I've always been amused when people get upset at the "Curtis whine".
> Some long-term EVer's get downright indignant when they hear a Curtis.
>
Curiously, despite the huge number (compared to BEVs) in service, I've never
heard anyone complain about the slight audible whine the Prius makes.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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On 8 Mar 2007 at 8:57, Lee Hart wrote:
> I recently discovered that Wilwood disk brakes are available for almost
> any car.
If this be true it certainly isn't reflected in their website. Under "find
your vehicle," they don't even list Geo (or for that matter Renault). The
listings they show for Chevrolet (the marque under which the last Metros
were sold) I find 55-57 Belair, lots of Corvettes and Impalas, and even
Vegas - but no Metros.
They do have kits to suit S10s (but no later than 1990), Honda Civics from
1990, and VW Pseudo-Beetles from 1998. I don't see many other typical
conversions. No Ford Escorts. They do support Falcons and Pintos, but I
don't see many of those converted any more. ;-)
These brakes seem to be aimed mostly at the "look fast" market. Unless they
have some that can be crossed to typical conversion vehicles, it's not clear
to me that they'll be very helpful for more than a few EVs. Pity.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 9 Mar 2007 at 23:01, Al wrote:
> The motor on ebay is a 1PV5133.
> The controller screenshot on metricmind shows a 1PV5133.
> I would imagine the Simovert would work with the Ford motor.
Good luck buying a Simovert only. They're only sold with the motors.
That's a pretty standard marketing approach for AC systems, in which the
inverters and motors have to be matched.
I suppose the Ebay motors would be of interest should you somehow manage to
damage the motor bundled with a Siemens system - and if you could manage to
solve the other problems of this motor.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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On 10 Mar 2007 at 13:34, Ian Hooper wrote:
> A friend of mine asked me to look into replacing the batteries in
> their (imported) 1st Gen Toyota Prius.
Because the Prius isn't really an EV, the EVDL isn't really the best place
to ask about this. I suggest you join the Prius Tech group at Yahoo :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius_Technical_Stuff/
Good luck.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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more details ? url ?
From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> There are at least 2 "Adobe Writers" on the I-net for free download.
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--- Begin Message ---
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> more details ? url ?
>
> From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > There are at least 2 "Adobe Writers" on the I-net for free download.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 9:54 P -0800 3/9/07, bruce parmenter wrote:
Overall, Reva manufacturers have sold 1800 cars
Reva has already sold more electric cars than any manufacturer sold in the US.
Toyota sold about 800 Rav-4EVs in the US, to lessors when their
leases expired, back in 2001-2002. No other manufacturer sold any.
All electric cars that were manufactured back then were leased.
Since then, none have been manufactured for sale in the US.
Source: http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/
I believe that the Reva cannot be imported to the US. I'd love to
hear otherwise, or a confirmation, if anyone knows.
--Gil
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1800 ???
Let me do the math:
1800 Reva sold for exportation
1000 Reva sold in India
=
2800, a prettier number isn't it ?
:^)
Cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait du volant, quel carburant choisiriez-vous
?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gil Dawson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 9:34 AM
Subject: Reva is the highest selling electric car in the world
At 9:54 P -0800 3/9/07, bruce parmenter wrote:
Overall, Reva manufacturers have sold 1800 cars
Reva has already sold more electric cars than any manufacturer sold in the
US.
Toyota sold about 800 Rav-4EVs in the US, to lessors when their leases
expired, back in 2001-2002. No other manufacturer sold any. All electric
cars that were manufactured back then were leased. Since then, none have
been manufactured for sale in the US.
Source: http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/
I believe that the Reva cannot be imported to the US. I'd love to hear
otherwise, or a confirmation, if anyone knows.
--Gil
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At 12:34 AM 10/03/07 -0800, Gil wrote:
At 9:54 P -0800 3/9/07, bruce parmenter wrote:
Overall, Reva manufacturers have sold 1800 cars
Reva has already sold more electric cars than any manufacturer sold in the US.
<snip>
I believe that the Reva cannot be imported to the US. I'd love to hear
otherwise, or a confirmation, if anyone knows.
G'day All
Maybe I'm being picky here, but isn't the Reva a quadricycle? Essentially a
slightly-better-than-a-NEV? Not really a car at all?
At least, the Australian Government wanted to test it as a car, the current
owners of one that was illegaly (no import documentation) brought to
Australia are so sure that it WON'T pass crash testing as a car that they
are pulling out all the stops to get a new category for Australia (that
exists in other places) of "quadricycle" so that the REVA can be passed. I
guess the situation is the same for the US, where to import them the only
way would be to hobble them still further to meet the NEV class as there is
not the proverbial snowflakes' chance of passing crash testing as a car.
It is probably more accurate to say that the Reva sales are lagging far
behind the sales of GEM vehicles.
Besides that, aren't there thousands of EVs in Europe? Phillipe, how many
Saxos and Berlingos, etc?
Just my $0.02
Regards
[Technik] James
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Could one make a precharge circuit on a 12V contactor for a EV traction pack
(assuming one had a seperate 12V battery) by wiring up a smaller relay that
would come on when the switched 12V comes on (when user turns the key) that
would connect the precharge resistor, and an RC network with say, a 2 second
delay or so, that turns on the main contactor?
The smaller relay would have to close with a 12V signal, and be able to handle
the full traction pack voltage.
Though the smaller relay would constantly be drawing power when the car is on,
though, even after the main contacter closes.
- Tony
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 7:43:30 PM
Subject: RE: Precharge alternatives
From: Dale Ulan
> Does that mean that you could use a mosfet-based SSR and a light
> bulb? The mosfet SSRs are two mosfets back-to-back, and should
> pass DC.
That's a good idea. In fact, even a standard AC SSR will work, because it will
get shorted (and thus turn off) when the main contactor closes. A small SCR
will work, too (with an isolated gate driver circuit).
> Careful - MOSFET's (and most other semiconductors) fail shorted (on).
> That MOSFET will get voltage stressed when the contactor opens
> under full load, and probably short.
That's possible, but unlikely because of the large resistor in series. If the
SSR included a snubbing capacitor across it, the odds of it failing from
transients are very low.
The consequences of the precharge SSR failing are also low. If it fails "on",
it just connects the precharge resistor permanently. Logic can detect this
(controller voltage when there shouldn't be any) and prevent the main contactor
from closing.
--
Lee Hart
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--- Begin Message ---
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Besides that, aren't there thousands of EVs in
> Europe? Phillipe, how many
> Saxos and Berlingos, etc?
I read recently in a national newspaper (the Guardian)
that there are just under 900 electric vehicles
registered for the road in the UK. Which will include
the Riva, sold as the "G-Wiz" here.
Cheers
Dave
___________________________________________________________
Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All
New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
--- End Message ---
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http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C11942/
Tuesday March 6, 2007 7:56 AM PST - By: Dave White
Just in case all those stories about the Tesla and the GM
Volt don't drive the point home, let us officially announce that the electric
car is back. The very fact that General Motors, the company that famously
killed the alternative-fuel vehicle in the film of the same name, is putting
both feet into its efforts to build such a beast is proof positive that a large
handful of Tesla fanatics can't be wrong. There's a reason that the Tesla sold
out before it was ever offered on the open market, and it's not just that it's
cool beyond words.
Electricity is the new ethanol, as it were, many industry
analysts think, and they have evidence to prove it. GM is making a big
carbon-less footprint, yes, but plenty of smaller companies are getting into
the swing of things on the electricity front as well, including Phoenix,
which is planning electric pickups and perhaps even SUVs. Electricity has the
reputation of being the greenest of all the alternative fuels. And although
these electric vehicles won't be 100 percent electricity-powered, they will be
predominantly that way, with gas becoming an afterthought as a vehicle fuel
after a few iterations.
Helping the cause of the electric car is a revolution in
battery technology, based on the kind of lithium-ion that power most of today's
laptop computers. (These won't burn or blow up, of course.) No less a presence
than Tesla has championed the lithium battery, that one with more than 6,800
individual cells. Another startup, Caterpillar spinoff Firefly Energy, has
bumped up the technological advancement factor in traditional power sources,
depending on a super-lightweight carbon graphite foam to replace the lead-acid
material that weighs down today's batteries.
Will Tesla sell out everything it makes for the next five
years? Will the Volt be a big hit for General Motors, or will the automaker
kill it, too? Stay tuned.
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>> you want to keep the full battery pack voltage out of the passenger
>> cabin for safety reasons. How do you have a voltmeter on the
>> dashboard then?
David> Most people just fuse the line. It's not the best answer, I'll
David> admit.
Aren't there devices like inductors that could generate a low voltage which
is proportional to but lower than the actual high voltage? Or is that a
voltage proportional to the amperage? Are there such things as variable
step down transformers?
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
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If you were trying to measure an AC signal, you could use a transformer to
isolate it, or reduce the voltage, or both. But, with a DC voltage signal,
there is no simple way to isolate it,
My solution was to use a voltage-to-frequency IC to create a pulse stream
whose frequency is proportional to the DC voltage, send that through an
Opto-isolator, and then re-transform it into a DC voltage ( now, isolated
from the pack).
It was a learning experience for me.
Phil
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Voltmeter
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:16:34 -0600
>> you want to keep the full battery pack voltage out of the passenger
>> cabin for safety reasons. How do you have a voltmeter on the
>> dashboard then?
David> Most people just fuse the line. It's not the best answer, I'll
David> admit.
Aren't there devices like inductors that could generate a low voltage which
is proportional to but lower than the actual high voltage? Or is that a
voltage proportional to the amperage? Are there such things as variable
step down transformers?
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
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A couple of friends and I are working on a dual chemistry battery pack for our
EV's. It consists of a string of AGM lead acid (8 x 12 in my case, 12 x 12 in
my friend's case) with parallel strings of D or F cell NIMH. By the way, the
idea came from the 1980 book about building your own EV for $1500 (1980
dollars).
We started with a single 12 V group 24 AGM and 2 x 10 parallel strings of
NIMH F cells (12 V / 26 AH total for the NIMH). On discharge, it seems to work
just fine as long as you fuse each of the NIMH strings around 25 A each. It
seems like they are taking about 15 A of the drain each at EV drain rates.
That is good because they are only 13 AH batts.
Charging is a whole different story. I thought we would be OK just putting
the 10 NIMH cells in parallel with the AGM and charging it off my 12 V, 2/6/12
A Walmart smart charger. That charger works just fine on the AGM alone. The
finishing voltage of the AGM is 13.1 V and 13.1 V is also near fully charged
for the 10 NIMH cells in series. But, I tried it and it didn't work at all. I
thought I put a full charge on it, but when I discharged it, I had even less
capacity than just the fully charged AGM alone. So, what happened? Why didn't
it charge properly with both in parallel?
Is it that the charger got confused and thought it was a flooded battery (15
V fully charged)? It is a smart charger for all 6/12 lead batts, AGM and
flooded. How it knows the difference, I don't know ... Someone please explain
if you know how it works. I don't understand because I measured the voltage of
the combined pack and them individually, and it seemed high enough to be fully
charged. Can I do something to the charger to force it to use the AGM profile
so that it does fully charge the AGM and the NIMH is just along for the ride.
This won't work out too well if I have to have seperate chargers for each of
the 10 packs of NIMH. Suggestions? In total, it looks like 4 x 84 NIMH D 10
AH D cells fused at 25 A per string in parallel with my 96 V, 8 x 12 pack of
AGMs should work best.
Also, I'm not sure if I have the right combination on NIMH to Lead acid.
10 NIMH for 1 AGM or
21 NIMH for 2 AGM or
11 NIMH for 1 AGM or
12 NIMH for 1 AGM
What about flooded?
12 NIMH for a flooded?
The finishing voltage if the AGM and flooded are very different. Again, I
don't understand why if they are both lead acid. Someone please explain if you
can.
Do I need a diode to prevent charge from going back to the NIMH? What type?
If I have that, how can I charge the NIMH? What about polyswitches in the NIMH
pack vs just fusing each string. I like polyswitches because the reset, but
they can take 3-5 x rated current and I don't want the cells to ever see more
than 2C. At least not these cells.
Abnother friend had done the same with 10 AH D cells. He used polyswitches
and a diode. I don't know how he charges them. Also, I'm not sure he is
getting full use out of the NIMH. I haven't seen the system, just talked to
him about it. It seems to work for him, but didn't work for me.
Thanks,
Steve
---------------------------------
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Hi All,
My voltmeter solution: In my 'junk' pile I found a 5-0-5 volt zero
center voltmeter. I added a series resistor to
multiply the meter to read +/- 25 volts. Then a bridge circuit
consisting of 2 resistors, and two 50 volt zener diodes.
The meter now reads 75/100/125 volts. If one assumes my 96 volt system
rests at about 100 volts, the meter
can be interpreted either as +/-25 volts or +/- 25%. Minor divisions are
1 volt or 1%.
With only +/- 5 volts going to the meter I intend to remote mount the
circuitry. I hope to temperature compensate
the zeners as I see some temperature-related drift.
In 1949 I installed a 50 microamp meter in my new Ford to monitor my
amateur radio equipment. It lasted
1 week. Delicate meters cannot stand up to the road bumps. So I went
to a surplus store and bought several
aircraft grade meters. I have never had one fail. I guess they were
designed for a hard landing, dropping in
from about 50 feet. (Cheap meters are probably rugged.)
John in Sylmar, CA
PV EV
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test
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
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