EV Digest 6569
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Otmar Ebenhoech on Peak Momment TV
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EZGO motor
by "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: motor pics - re: adding end cap and bearing
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Charging at Train Stations
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EZGO motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Otmar Ebenhoech on Peak Moment TV
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Clutch VS clutchless
by "JOHN P SWEENEY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Clutch VS clutchless
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Motor Ident problem
by "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Would any EV groups like a "motor info" FAQ's page?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Yellow Tops... Yes or No?
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Yellow Tops... Yes or No?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Raptor precharge Protection
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) "Plama Boy" Live from PIR
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Would any EV groups like a "motor info" FAQ's page?
by "BadFishRacing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Clutch VS clutchless
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Would any EV groups like a "motor info" FAQ's page?
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Yellow Tops... Yes or No?
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Live from PIR, "White Zombie" Shreds old PS3 record
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Live from PIR, "White Zombie" Shreds old PS3 record
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Clutch VS clutchless
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
What a great piece! When I see something like this it makes me even more
passionate about getting my car running...hopefully this summer.
Great job Otmar!
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: Otmar Ebenhoech on Peak Momment TV
On Mar 16, 2007, at 11:13 PM, Roderick Wilde wrote:
Here is a great new video featuring Otmar:
http://www.peakmoment.tv/conversations/52.html
Thanx for sharing Rod.
Otmar, that was SWEET! A very positive interview. Solid EV information
without the all to common hype.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tom (and Jim),
It's for a sort of show car - a low riding golf-cart sized vehicle with quad
wheels. I'm not worried at all that the motor has enough power.
I think I can make something work for the shaft and bearing, it's just that
I wish I had more time to work on it!
--
Martin K
On 3/17/07, Tom Shay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The prospects of this motor working for your EV look hopeless to me.
It needs a longer shaft, end housing and bearing. This motor will
be too small if your EV is intended to be much faster or heavier than a
golf
cart. And if your car must be finished in a month there's no time to
waste
with this motor.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: EZGO motor
>I appreciate the replies both Jim and Roderick,
>
> I sent the wrong URLs (they were local URLs to me):
> <http://walfstream.alfred.edu/~martin/motor1.JPG>
> <http://walfstream.alfred.edu/~martin/motor2.JPG>
> <http://walfstream.alfred.edu/~martin/motor3.JPG>
>
> Yes, it's basically all or nothing on this motor. I paid for it and
waited
> a
> month, I have to get this "car" done in a month on way or another!
>
> The pressed-on spline adapter is almost certainly hardened to some
extent?
>
> Thanks,
> Martin Klingensmith
>
>
>
> On 3/17/07, Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Martin
>>
>> First off I wasn't able to get to the pics, so maybe
>> you can take a look at that.
>>
>> I do a lot of the EZ-GO cart motors so I believe I
>> know which one you've got, probably the 73124G01 or 2.
>>
>> As a golfcart motor it never has an issue with wearing
>> that shaft spline out I've never had to replace them
>> and so admit that I've not looked into how they're
>> attached. You are right in that they are probably
>> just a pressed on end piece.
>>
>> It's kind of funny a bunch of these cart motors shaft
>> threads have popped up being I did just got one motor
>> that had a bad spline last week, looked like someone
>> tried to weld something, to be honest I couldn't tell
>> what actually happened or what the guy was doing on
>> it, lmao. I just popped a shaft from a dead armature
>> and simply replaced the whole shaft.
>>
>> Being there has been so much intrest in this I'll try
>> and find a minute to see how hard they are to remove
>> (being I have this mutilated shaft I can test on), and
>> what size and length of snub shaft remaines.
>>
>> I've done a number of shaft extentions and I've seen a
>> lot of "attemted" extentions. The MBD motor I did for
>> my mini chopper is an extention (it came with a 1/4"
>> female slot) and it didn't come out to bad. It's one
>> thing to press on a small spline that is not much
>> longer than the parent shaft, it's much tougher to
>> extend a longer shaft and keep it true.
>>
>> With your motor bought and with not a lot of options
>> and figuering you're hell bent on trying this 8^P
>> I'd like to offer a little advise to save you a James
>> Massey type beating from both the motor and me 8^P
>>
>> Here are the cons of this armature and shaft. First
>> the shaft doesn't stick out past the armature windings
>> so you can't drill and pin it like you'd find in a
>> Prestolite. For the same reason you can't weld it
>> very easily either (watch burning the windings if you
>> try this). This leaves you with a press fit extention
>> as your only viable option, IMO.
>>
>> Anyway what I'd suggest to you would be to press on an
>> unmachined shaft blank and then machine it true vs.
>> machining something out and expecting it to press on
>> true. Once I've pressed on my blank I'd use a
>> steadyrest and put in the center hole and machine the
>> shaft from there.
>>
>> I'm seriously doubting that you can remove that spline
>> end with pullers and a torch (again watch burning the
>> windings if you don't believe me and must try).
>> Pressing it off shouldn't be to hard but it's the
>> grabbing it from inside the windings that's the issue.
>>
>> Hope this helps
>> Jim Husted
>> Hi-Torque Electric
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Martin Klingensmith
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > I finally got my EZ-GO 6" Advanced DC series motor
>> > this week. It took a
>> > month for me to get it after ordering on eBay. Long
>> > sad story (from the
>> > seller)
>> >
>> > I knew what I was getting into when I bought this
>> > motor so I'm not going to
>> > say "oh I didn't know it would be hard to get it
>> > running", but what I'm
>> > looking for is a bit of advice from someone who
>> > knows a bit more about these
>> > motors. If you look at the pictures:
>> > <http://walfstream/~martin/motor3.JPG>
>> > <http://walfstream/~martin/motor2.JPG>
>> > <http://walfstream/~martin/motor1.JPG>
>> >
>> > You will notice that the piece with the inside
>> > spline looks like it's not
>> > part of the main shaft. In fact it really couldn't
>> > be based on the cold-saw
>> > cuts on the shaft (at the bottom of the spline)
>> > It also looks like it was heated up when pressed
>> > onto the shaft (see
>> > motor3.JPG)
>> > My question to the more mechanically inclined people
>> > is: How do you think
>> > this is attached to the shaft of the motor?
>> > Do you think I can pull it off or should I leave it
>> > on there?
>> >
>> > The way I see it, I have two options for
>> > mechanically connecting to the
>> > motor:
>> > Find something with a 19 tooth spline that measures
>> > about 0.834 diameter
>> > Turn a (round) stub shaft that fits into the spline
>> > hole and tig weld it
>> > (making it go out of round?)
>> >
>> > Here are a few measurements I made:
>> > Inside case diameter: 5.85"
>> > Hole-hole (center-center) distance: 4.375"
>> > Case thickness: 0.435"
>> > Depth from edge of case to field windings: 0.395"
>> > Outside diameter of shaft: 1.35"
>> > Length of shaft from end to rotor laminations:
>> > 1.785"
>> > Length of spline cut: 0.900"
>> > --
>> > Martin Klingensmith
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
____________________________________________________________________________________
>> Finding fabulous fares is fun.
>> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight
and
>> hotel bargains.
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Martin Klingensmith
>
>
--
Martin Klingensmith
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Carl
You have the GE sep-ex wound ClubCar motor. My
repeated warning on these GE's is that they have a
small brush and a very thin brush board. The holders
are made of thin sheet metal and it heated the warp
and will grab the brush preventing it from moving
resulting in arcing the comm so just don't over heat
it!
I did have a thought that might help you mount it at
least.
If you remove the motors (4) 10 X 32 long through
bolts from the CE (brush) end you can remove that
aluminum open ended DE plate. Use that as a template
to create the radius and the motor mount up 10 X 32
holes from a piece of aluminum flat plate. This would
allow your new plate to sit further in and grab the
(new) DE bearing closer to that main shaft.
Anyway just a thought I had.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Carl Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey Jim,
>
> Finally got around to posting these pics.
>
> http://www.stack.com/motor1.jpg
> http://www.stack.com/motor2.jpg
> http://www.stack.com/motor3.jpg
> http://www.stack.com/motor4.jpg
>
> Thanks
>
> Carl
>
> >Hey Carl
>
> Send me a pic or three, so I can put an eyeball on
> it
> so I can see exactly what motor you have. I'll be
> better able to make suggestions as to which you have
> and what can be done to help you move forward. I
> know
> everyone has a budget and also works with whats
> available.
>
> There are just to many motors out there to blanket
> them with a one approach solve all or even
> suggestions. Being you seem bent on tormenting me
> (LMAO) lets have a good look at what you have so you
> don't torment me more later, ROF!
>
> Anyway ship me some pics so I can offer suggestions
> for the motor you have on hand.
> Cya
> Jim Husted
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Do any of you know of any train stations around the country that allow their
commuters to charge their electric vehicles while using the train to commute
to and from work? I do remember the now defunct San Francisco station car
project but is there anything out there for the regular guy with an EV?
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey James, all
Being I can pop shafts in and out I don't do many
shaft extentions type mod's. I've seen more pre-done
attempted (mostly, Jim can you fix this stuff, hehe)
than I have actually done myself. With that said I
have just a few comments as followed.
> IMHO ideal shaft adaptor if a spline adaptor is
> available (fixed-width
> font) cross-sectional sketch:
>
> # = Motor shaft with fem spline
> * = spline adaptor
> H = new shaft
>
> ###################HHHHHHH
> ###################HHHHHHH
> #### nut***********HHHHHHH
> #### nut***********HHHHHHH ____
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ____
> Retaining bolt thru middle ____
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ____
> #### nut***********HHHHHHH
> #### nut***********HHHHHHH
> ###################HHHHHHH
> ###################HHHHHHH
On this one I'd be worried about the amount of
material that's left to support the extension.
Although it's got two bolt type lockings (if I read
this right) and it wouldn't let go, I'd worry it would
/ could distort under load.
> IMHO ideal shaft adaptor if a spline has to be
> machined (fixed-width font)
> cross-sectional sketch:
>
> # = Motor shaft with fem spline
> H = new shaft
> * = spacer to allow the spline to end on the new
> shaft
>
> ###################***HHHH
> ###################***HHHH
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> Retaining bolt thru middle
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> ###################***HHHH
> ###################***HHHH
IMO this looks better. Less hole and a thicker wall
will keep the extension stiffer. Not to sure about
the spacers though. First, unless they are perfectly
true in thickness they'll cause the shaft to run out.
The longer the shaft the more it will be out of
course. Second, I'd worry about compressing the
washers causing run out under load and or use.
> The above two sketches allow for a part that can be
> removed again if
> needed, therefore the stub can be greater in
> diameter than the bearing
> mounting position.
>
> ===========================
>
> And finally the risky last-resort running-out-of
> options method:
>
> # = Motor shaft with fem spline
> H = new shaft extension with plain shaft and
> interference fit
>
> ###################HHHHHHH
> ###################HHHHHHH
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHH==HHHHHHH
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHHXXHHHHHHH
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHHXXHHHHHHH
> I'd still use a retaining bolt
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHHXXHHHHHHH
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHHXXHHHHHHH
> #### HHHHHHHHHHHH==HHHHHHH
> ###################HHHHHHH
> ###################HHHHHHH
On this one the X's I put show that agian a smaller
amount of material is left to support the shaft
extension. Even though bolted down I see the X area
as a place the shaft could bend, crack, or break
causing run out of the new shaft.
In general I'm wondering how much you're gaining by
hollowing the shaft and using a go through bolt vs.
just leaving the extension shaft solid and using a
tight press fit.
These are just my opinions and like I said not really
my specialty 8^) I could show this to Dutchman though
if you're so hell bent on that 2X4 beating 8^P
(you guys think "I'm" bad toward motor stuff, shesh)
Honestly all three would probably work on a lot of
cases as long as you don't ask to much from it. As an
inhouse self do it's viable. As a sell and warranty,
not something I'd be into much 8^o
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A nice little touch is at the very end of the video after the credits.
There is an ending clip where the film crew makes comments on Otmars
acceleration. LR......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gang,
I now have a definitive answer for clutch VS clutch less in my Fiero
conversion. When I originally built the Fiero I retained the clutch and
flywheel and drove it that way until recently. I just obtained a hub from
EV-Blue to directly couple the Warp 8 motor to the Fiero 5 speed.
(Thanks EV_Blue) The hub replaced a 40# flywheel and clutch assembly with a 4#
hub. The installation was straightforward and went without incident. Now for
the final analysis---:
Wow I really like it. The Fiero shifts effortlessly, no hint of grinding.
Without the added rotational mass of the clutch & flywheel the syncro's are
more than adequate. Just let off on the go pedal and shift to the next gear (up
or down). Power shifting of course is out of the question but that is not my
style of driving anyway. The motor seems quieter and a little more snappy. I
would not suggest that this setup not be used with a controller that does not
have RPM limits, without the rotational mass of the flywheel clutch assembly
applying the throttle for more than just a fraction of a second will surely
result in the motor spontaneously disassembling itself.
I know you are wondering what on earth someone would want to swap out a
perfectly functional clutch system for direct drive so I'll explain. The Fiero
is a transverse mounted mid engine car with the flywheel clutch assembly
directly behind the drivers back. The stock Fiero engine falls on its face at
4500 to 5000 RPM, the WARP 8" motor red lines at 8000 RPM. Having had a
flywheel explode in a car previously I don't relish the thought of that
happening directly in line with my spine.
Pat Sweeney
KICKGAS Fiero
E-Recumbent Bike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey John
How's the 8'er doing since we advanced it? I take it
no more arcy sparky now 8^)
I did want to comment on that 8K redline. I'd caution
people to exceed 7K on the ADC8's. Wayland is right
about 6300 rpms and to be honest he's getting "into"
that scary zone where even though you've done it a
hundred times it's that 101st time that's the bitch.
Just trying to keep this EV8^) from turning into this
EV8^(
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- JOHN P SWEENEY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gang,
> The stock Fiero engine falls on its face at
> 4500 to 5000 RPM, the WARP 8" motor red lines at
> 8000 RPM.
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--- Begin Message ---
Jim, that's good information, at least in the sense that it's a valid
motor number. I measured it as 6.7" across the endplate but that's
not a problem, I'll use your version of the number to do further
hunting for facts.
You'ld be more than welcome to my dinner anyway, even though I'm not
arguing against you, thanks for the info
Chris
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey Chris
>
> I'm gonna bet that your motor is a GE 5BC49JB447A
> which is a valid 6" GE motor number. I know I've done
> them before but can't from memory say much about it,
> other than I know that number, lol.
>
> GE unlike Prestolite didn't publish test specs or part
> books for rebuilders 8^(
>
> I'd need pics to offer much else, like whether fields
> are set series, or series / parallel, ect.
>
> if nothing else I'd be willing to bet ya dinner that's
> your motor number 8^)
>
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > I am trying to establish the specs of a motor which
> > I bought.
> >
> > It's a 6.7" unit, about 10 inches long, has a keyed
> > taper shaft and the
> > following number stamped on the case
> >
> > S5!649JB447A
> >
> > I have added the exclamation mark in the third
> > position because the
> > character is indeterminable, but has a looped base
> > so maybe a 6,8 or zero, or even a
> > character O or C maybe ?
> >
> > I bought it rated as a 36V, 2000rpm, 96Amps, 4HP
> > device, but how many times
> > do things not turn out to be what they're supposed
> > to be ?
> > It has a helical gear on the output shaft about
> > 40mm dia and about 25mm
> > long, at a guess
> >
> > Hoping someone might be able to shed some light on
> > it for me.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
I just had a request to use a post I did here for a EV
group site, being it keeps me from chicken pecking it
out again I said you bet, lol. Although I better
start watching what I post 8^o LMAO!
Anyway I'm just wondering if there are any groups that
might feel a motor based FAQ page would be something
they could use.
Knowing what questions or topics that need answering
is kind of the info I'd need though. What would the
best (lets say) 10 to 20 questions be, that would best
suit what people would like to see or know?
Are there any "best of" topics that helped in someones
projects as that would also be helpful.
As someone who's done motor all my life (it feels) but
is also just starting my EV walk it's knowing what
questions to address that are my unknown.
Just thought this might be something to explore.
As someone who has no want, desire, or time to join
another list, this might help me answer questions for
more than EVDL list members 8^)
Anyway this is something I'd be more than happy to
assemble if a list can be compiled, which if nothing
else I could post on my site.
Any input?
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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After the increasing price in lithium Ion (and the recent demise of
my computer prompted me to have to buy a new one) I'm now looking at
Lead Acid batteries again for the City El.
The City el draws no more than about 125A at any one time. (and
that's on startup) On the flat I'm looking at under 50Amps drain.
I could go for the Optima type 31A (YT S 5.5) (http://
www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/europe/en/config/product_info/
commercial/deep_cycle/technical_specs.html)
- which has a 75AH capacity at the 20 Hour rate, a stupidly low
internal resistance, no maintenance and a weight at about 4kgs less
than the alternative - http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/
ProductSpec.aspx?Name=30XHS - Trojan 30HXS.
I could also (apparently also recommended) go for the http://
www.trojan-battery.com/Products/ProductSpec.aspx?Name=SCS225 Trojan
SC S225.
I'm completely out of my league and in two minds what to do. The
Trojans have a much higher 20 and 5 hour rates than the Yellow Top -
but the Yellow Tops are maintenance free - and lighter. For a car
which (with me onboard) weighs about 370 kgs in total I'm guessing
that saving 12 kgs of weight would make a big difference.
My current situation (after having a friend do a 40 A discharge/
charge test on my failed so called 90AH C/20 vartas and finding the
second worst having a 7 AH capacity) is that I'm using a set of
Elecsols - on the stock charger. Several people have warned me about
the City El charger eating these batteries for breakfast!
Since the elecsols are already a few years old and were free I'm not
worrying too much - but want to make sure the next battery set is a
good one which lasts well, gives good range (20 miles would be a
minimum - 30 would be ideal) and can be recharged fairly quickly on a
fast charger if needs be. I would be getting individual 12v chargers
for each battery.
I want to have all my metaphorical ducks in a row for the day my
current set rolls over and dies. I want to make an informed and
reasoned choice bearing in mind the constraints on my car. I would
go for Trojan T105 or similar - but I don't have the room and the car
would probably not cope well with the weight (400kgs is the official
maximum combined weight of car + occupants)
I would really appreciate any feedback people have from these battery
types!
Thanks
Nikki.
(Fed up with a 10-12 mile range at 8 deg. C!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you really only need under 200A draw, you don't need the power of the
yellow-tops. This car sounds like a good candidate for a NiMH pack,
less than half the price of Lithium, and less than half the weight of
lead. With a car as light as this one, you can really see a dramatic
difference of the lighter weight of the NiMH.
And if you plan to buy a bunch of chargers, you can just as well buy a
set of NiMH chargers to charge 12v substrings. You might be able to get
away without the high-rate IB9000 D-cells for this car, and a real BMS
if you don't mind the manul labor.
Jack
nikki wrote:
After the increasing price in lithium Ion (and the recent demise of my
computer prompted me to have to buy a new one) I'm now looking at Lead
Acid batteries again for the City El.
The City el draws no more than about 125A at any one time. (and that's
on startup) On the flat I'm looking at under 50Amps drain.
I could go for the Optima type 31A (YT S 5.5) (http://
www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/europe/en/config/product_info/
commercial/deep_cycle/technical_specs.html)
- which has a 75AH capacity at the 20 Hour rate, a stupidly low
internal resistance, no maintenance and a weight at about 4kgs less
than the alternative - http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/
ProductSpec.aspx?Name=30XHS - Trojan 30HXS.
I could also (apparently also recommended) go for the http://
www.trojan-battery.com/Products/ProductSpec.aspx?Name=SCS225 Trojan SC
S225.
I'm completely out of my league and in two minds what to do. The
Trojans have a much higher 20 and 5 hour rates than the Yellow Top -
but the Yellow Tops are maintenance free - and lighter. For a car which
(with me onboard) weighs about 370 kgs in total I'm guessing that
saving 12 kgs of weight would make a big difference.
My current situation (after having a friend do a 40 A discharge/ charge
test on my failed so called 90AH C/20 vartas and finding the second
worst having a 7 AH capacity) is that I'm using a set of Elecsols - on
the stock charger. Several people have warned me about the City El
charger eating these batteries for breakfast!
Since the elecsols are already a few years old and were free I'm not
worrying too much - but want to make sure the next battery set is a
good one which lasts well, gives good range (20 miles would be a
minimum - 30 would be ideal) and can be recharged fairly quickly on a
fast charger if needs be. I would be getting individual 12v chargers
for each battery.
I want to have all my metaphorical ducks in a row for the day my
current set rolls over and dies. I want to make an informed and
reasoned choice bearing in mind the constraints on my car. I would go
for Trojan T105 or similar - but I don't have the room and the car
would probably not cope well with the weight (400kgs is the official
maximum combined weight of car + occupants)
I would really appreciate any feedback people have from these battery
types!
Thanks
Nikki.
(Fed up with a 10-12 mile range at 8 deg. C!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'v now become an expert in burning up Raptors. It takes no real talent. I've
done it 2 1/2 times.
I didn't quite damage the controller the first time (count that as the half)
when I hooked up the heater to only receive power when the contactor was on.
What I didn't realize was that the heater would be powered with the contactor
off through the precharge circuit. John Wayland in msg 81568 told how to hook
up a relay to only power the heater when the precharge was completed. I did
that.
Next I turned up the charger with the mid pack safety breaker open. The Raptor
responded by self destructing. I used another of the relays that JW recommended
so that the precharge would only be activated when the key was turned on.
Solved that problem nicely. I was so proud of myself. Everything was protected
and safe.
I'd been fussing with the car and left the emergency switch open which was
wired to open the main contactor. I got into the car to answer a fire call.
Turned on the key. Precharge light lit up. Step on the gas. Poof, all the
lights light up. Call Peter Senkowski and book passage for the controller back
to California.
After reading the posts by Lee Hart and others about the precharge circuit for
the Curtis, I asked Peter if a light bulb wouldn't protect the precharge from
burning up. He said that is how he does it on the bench in his shop. There is
now a 60 watt lightbulb wired in series with the precharge. This will limit
current to under 1/2 amp which should keep the precharge safe from harm. I
figure the relay is now redundant, but I will leave it in place. Probably
Roland's influence.
Anyway, it seems that if the main contactor should open while there is a demand
for high voltage power, the power will be supplied through the precharge
circuit. If it is much power, it should blow the 5 amp fuse or the precharge
board. Perhaps someone else can prosper from my errors. The bulb in series
seems like good insurance to me.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John has been calling me from the track so for those very few EV race fans
out there here is an update. The first run on the new batteries with the
current turned down to a measly small street amps of 1000 it turned a 12.64
at 98.69 mph. The 60 ft time was 1.67 and it was at 84.5 mph at the eighth
mile at 7.85 seconds. The second run netted a 12.38 second ET at 104.21 mph.
Of particular note is the fact that in all of last years racing 104 mph was
the top speed they ever got out of "White Zombie". They have a great
announcer at Portland International Raceway that is really playing up the
fact that this is an electric car and also the specs on the car. The first
two runs annihilated the cars in the other lane. The second run was against
a built V8 Chevy Nova. The poor guy didn't have a prayer being matched up
against the electric. On the second run he was at 87.73 mph in 7.74 seconds.
With these leaps in performance they just may get into the elevens without
turning up the amps. I personally believe this type of publicity does a lot
for the cause of EVs. People at the track go home and tell their buddies,
"hey, you wouldn't believe what I saw at the track last night!" The word is
definitely starting to get out there and with the Car and Driver article EVs
may become part of the general population's consciousness.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Motor FAQs. Awesome.
I still don't have a handle on some of the advanced aspects of brush timing.
Not sure how detailed you want to go, but starting with simplest.
* What is brush timing?
* Why do I need to advance my brush timing?
* Can I run my motor in reverse with advanced brush timing?
* Will adjusting brush timing affect torque and RPM?
* How do I know what is the optimal brush timing?
* How does adding field weakening or series/parallel fields affect brush
timing requirements?
Yeah, that ought to do it.
And later we might have to talk more about separately excited compound wound
motors with constant HP control.
Darin
BadFishRacing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 2:37 PM
Subject: Would any EV groups like a "motor info" FAQ's page?
Hey all
I just had a request to use a post I did here for a EV
group site, being it keeps me from chicken pecking it
out again I said you bet, lol. Although I better
start watching what I post 8^o LMAO!
Anyway I'm just wondering if there are any groups that
might feel a motor based FAQ page would be something
they could use.
Knowing what questions or topics that need answering
is kind of the info I'd need though. What would the
best (lets say) 10 to 20 questions be, that would best
suit what people would like to see or know?
Are there any "best of" topics that helped in someones
projects as that would also be helpful.
As someone who's done motor all my life (it feels) but
is also just starting my EV walk it's knowing what
questions to address that are my unknown.
Just thought this might be something to explore.
As someone who has no want, desire, or time to join
another list, this might help me answer questions for
more than EVDL list members 8^)
Anyway this is something I'd be more than happy to
assemble if a list can be compiled, which if nothing
else I could post on my site.
Any input?
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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--- Begin Message ---
Jim, thanks for this post. What would you recommend for a WarP 9"? The specs
say 6000 RPM. I try to keep it under 5000, but over about 4000. I have the
Zilla limit set for 5700, but if I need to lower that, I'd like to know.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 1:52:37 PM
Subject: Re: Clutch VS clutchless
Hey John
How's the 8'er doing since we advanced it? I take it
no more arcy sparky now 8^)
I did want to comment on that 8K redline. I'd caution
people to exceed 7K on the ADC8's. Wayland is right
about 6300 rpms and to be honest he's getting "into"
that scary zone where even though you've done it a
hundred times it's that 101st time that's the bitch.
Just trying to keep this EV8^) from turning into this
EV8^(
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- JOHN P SWEENEY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gang,
> The stock Fiero engine falls on its face at
> 4500 to 5000 RPM, the WARP 8" motor red lines at
> 8000 RPM.
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--- Begin Message ---
#1 question how do I determine motor size ?
#2 how do you figure out which motor ?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Husted<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EVDL<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 1:37 PM
Subject: Would any EV groups like a "motor info" FAQ's page?
Hey all
I just had a request to use a post I did here for a EV
group site, being it keeps me from chicken pecking it
out again I said you bet, lol. Although I better
start watching what I post 8^o LMAO!
Anyway I'm just wondering if there are any groups that
might feel a motor based FAQ page would be something
they could use.
Knowing what questions or topics that need answering
is kind of the info I'd need though. What would the
best (lets say) 10 to 20 questions be, that would best
suit what people would like to see or know?
Are there any "best of" topics that helped in someones
projects as that would also be helpful.
As someone who's done motor all my life (it feels) but
is also just starting my EV walk it's knowing what
questions to address that are my unknown.
Just thought this might be something to explore.
As someone who has no want, desire, or time to join
another list, this might help me answer questions for
more than EVDL list members 8^)
Anyway this is something I'd be more than happy to
assemble if a list can be compiled, which if nothing
else I could post on my site.
Any input?
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Nikki and All,
>nikki wrote:
>> After the increasing price in lithium Ion (and the recent
>> demise of my computer prompted me to have to buy a new
>> one) I'm now looking at Lead Acid batteries again for
>> the City El.
>> The City el draws no more than about 125A at any one
>> time. (and that's on startup) On the flat I'm looking
>> at under 50Amps drain.
>> I could go for the Optima type 31A (YT S 5.5) (http://
>>
>www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/europe/en/config/pro
>> duct_info/ commercial/deep_cycle/technical_specs.html)
>> - which has a 75AH capacity at the 20 Hour rate, a
>> stupidly low internal resistance, no maintenance and a
>> weight at about 4kgs less than the alternative -
>> http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/
>> ProductSpec.aspx?Name=30XHS - Trojan 30HXS.
>> I could also (apparently also recommended) go for the
>> http://
>www.trojan-battery.com/Products/ProductSpec.aspx?Name=SCS22
>> 5 Trojan SC S225.
>>
>> I'm completely out of my league and in two minds what to
>> do. The Trojans have a much higher 20 and 5 hour rates
>> than the Yellow Top -
Not only that, but you can use more of the lead in the
Trojans for about 15% longer range on a weight to weight
basis Vs the YT. Now add that the Trojans cost a lot less
with probably double the range, require a more simple,
cheaper battery charger it's really a no brainer unless you
are just into high tech batts, gadgetry. And a battery
that's lightly loaded like the large cap Trojans are will
last a long time.
but the Yellow Tops are
>> maintenance free -
This just means screw up charging them once and
that's it!! Where a flooded you can just put in more water.
>>and lighter.
Which means less range.
For a car which (with
>me onboard) weighs about 370 kgs in total I'm guessing
>> that saving 12 kgs of weight would make a big
>> difference.
Only up hills but with the longer range, that's
easily handled.
>>>
>> I want to have all my metaphorical ducks in a row for the
>> day my current set rolls over and dies. I want to make
>> an informed and reasoned choice bearing in mind the
>> constraints on my car. I would go for Trojan T105 or
>> similar - but I don't have the room and the car would
>probably not cope well with the weight (400kgs is the
>> official maximum combined weight of car + occupants)
>>
>> I would really appreciate any feedback people have from
>> these battery types!
Another might be using 8v batts if you have them
there. But only use real traction, deep cycle batteries.
Jerry Dycus
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Nikki.
>>
>> (Fed up with a 10-12 mile range at 8 deg. C!)
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On it's third run of the afternoon at PIR John Wayland's "White Zombie"
giant killer shredded the old PS3 record by turning a blistering 12.161 at
106.59 mph. This is a new fastest speed in the quarter for the little Datsun
from hell. The poor guy in the next lane with the Dodge Dart with a 383
cubic inch big block didn't know what hit him. The 60 foot time was 1.655
and WZ turned 87.81 mph in 7.614 seconds in the eighth mile. This is only
the third run on these new batteries. It sure looks like the engineers at
Hawker knew what they were talking about. In this world of BS battery specs
it is sure refreshing to see some real truth. It looks like they just may
break into the elevens today without having to turn up the screws.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Rod, all
Fun stuff, thanks for the blow by blow 8^)
I had to call John up to say congrats and check in.
I asked him if he was still at 1000 batt amps? He
said yes, I said turn them up then, LMAO!!!
He assured me WZ would run an 11 this next run 8^)
I'll be rooting for him and Tim and I thought I'd post
John's quote so he'd keep his word 8^)
Keep up the updates Rod, enjoy reading them!
Sounds like John's pumped, the announcers pumped and
the crowds pumped and Johns got a bunch of video
shooters there, Can't wait for some new video clips.
Cya
Jim Husted
--- Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On it's third run of the afternoon at PIR John
> Wayland's "White Zombie"
> giant killer shredded the old PS3 record by turning
> a blistering 12.161 at
> 106.59 mph. This is a new fastest speed in the
> quarter for the little Datsun
> from hell. The poor guy in the next lane with the
> Dodge Dart with a 383
> cubic inch big block didn't know what hit him. The
> 60 foot time was 1.655
> and WZ turned 87.81 mph in 7.614 seconds in the
> eighth mile. This is only
> the third run on these new batteries. It sure looks
> like the engineers at
> Hawker knew what they were talking about. In this
> world of BS battery specs
> it is sure refreshing to see some real truth. It
> looks like they just may
> break into the elevens today without having to turn
> up the screws.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I assume if I am not racing around I don't need to
worry about maximum rpm's?
You wrote:
"I would not suggest that this setup not
be used with a controller that does not have RPM
limits, ..."
Is there an extra "not" there, I not understand?
--- JOHN P SWEENEY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gang,
> I now have a definitive answer for clutch VS
> clutch less in my Fiero conversion. When I
> originally built the Fiero I retained the clutch and
> flywheel and drove it that way until recently. I
> just obtained a hub from EV-Blue to directly couple
> the Warp 8 motor to the Fiero 5 speed.
> (Thanks EV_Blue) The hub replaced a 40# flywheel and
> clutch assembly with a 4# hub. The installation was
> straightforward and went without incident. Now for
> the final analysis---:
>
> Wow I really like it. The Fiero shifts
> effortlessly, no hint of grinding. Without the added
> rotational mass of the clutch & flywheel the
> syncro's are more than adequate. Just let off on the
> go pedal and shift to the next gear (up or down).
> Power shifting of course is out of the question but
> that is not my style of driving anyway. The motor
> seems quieter and a little more snappy. I would not
> suggest that this setup not be used with a
> controller that does not have RPM limits, without
> the rotational mass of the flywheel clutch assembly
> applying the throttle for more than just a fraction
> of a second will surely result in the motor
> spontaneously disassembling itself.
>
> I know you are wondering what on earth someone
> would want to swap out a perfectly functional clutch
> system for direct drive so I'll explain. The Fiero
> is a transverse mounted mid engine car with the
> flywheel clutch assembly directly behind the drivers
> back. The stock Fiero engine falls on its face at
> 4500 to 5000 RPM, the WARP 8" motor red lines at
> 8000 RPM. Having had a flywheel explode in a car
> previously I don't relish the thought of that
> happening directly in line with my spine.
>
>
> Pat Sweeney
> KICKGAS Fiero
> E-Recumbent Bike
>
>
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