EV Digest 6577
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) membership
by jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) FAST(er) NEV's - Update HB 1820 Washington State
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) E meter source?
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: NiMH Battery Packs in Parallel
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) RE: FAST(er) NEV's - Update HB 1820 Washington State
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Better Data Logging Options?
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Big Honking Motor
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: charging while driving question
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: FAST(er) NEV's - Update HB 1820 Washington State
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Big Honking Motor
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Big Honking Motor
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: E meter source?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: E meter source? - Inexpensive e-meters by Microlog
by "Glenn Meader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Would any EV groups like a "motor info" FAQ's page? - post it
yourself on the Wiki
by "Glenn Meader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Big Honking Motor
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Yellow Tops... Yes or No?
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Big Honking Motor
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Weatherization and Cooling of Motors
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Weatherization and Cooling of Motors
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Live from PIR, Fireball Incident
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: charging while driving question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Big Honking Motor
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Big Honking Motor...... again
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: FAST(er) NEV's - Update HB 1820 Washington State
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: membership
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: charging while driving question
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: FAST(er) NEV's - Update HB 1820 Washington State, an' Corrupticut
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
When I go to .....
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/
it says ...You are not allowed to access this group
I was a member ... How do I correct ?
---------------------------------
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Funny, this is not getting as much traction as I thought, I mean in the
EV community... With the potential number of EV Sales possible, I
thought it would be a Hot News Topic. After all a 25 mph limit is..
well... very limiting. But 35 mph is fairly USEFUL. Most in-city
streets and arterioles are 35 mph or less..
Any way, as you remember, a few weeks ago house bill 1820, which would
allow most NEV's to travel most state and local roads at UP TO 35 mph,
passed the Washington State House 97 to 0 . A good sign.
Yesterday, Steve Mayeda of MC Electric, and I testified before the
Senate Transportation Committee, along with an NEV user/owner from
Tumwater Washington on behalf of House Bill 1820. The reception was
Positive. A few questions about NEV Prices, and Safety, and we were all
done by 4:30 pm. The bill now goes before Ways and Means, and then on
to a full Senate Vote.
Steve told me that a similar bill in the Montana Legislature has already
passed both houses.
MY QUESTION to the EV community, Does any one know of other such efforts
in Other States at this time ? ? ?
Of course, after these bills Pass, and are signed into LAW, many NEV's
will have to undertake some re-engineering, to increase their
performance, which will be a good thing for all of us. Righat ???
You can get a full description of the bill and other background info at:
http://www.housebill1820.com/index.html
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't seem to find a source for E meters. I've googled and hit what
conversion sites I know of.
Aren't they still made or sold by someone?
Also, if I decide not to go that route, I'd like to install a 400 amp
ammeter. Mine is dead. The shunt is already in place. Won't any 400 amp
ammeter work with this shunt? Or are the brands tailored to work only with a
certain brand of shunt?
Rich
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--- Begin Message ---
Would it work to put the charger on a timer and set the voltage to only
90% of full?
I actually have a long mostly downhill trip to work, so that may be to my
benifit? (planning on AC drive and regen)
> The way the voltage reacts to current, charging, and temp causes serious
> problems.
>
> Put two charged cells in parallel. One can be slightly warmer and thus
> have a higher voltage. It will discharge into the other cell and run
> itself down while overcharging the other cell, which will damage it.
>
> Now in charging a NiMH cell with a constant current, at first voltage
> climbs, but right as it approaches full charge the cell voltage actually
> drops briefly. Now with 2 in parallel, as the voltage drops, not only
> will the cell take all the charging current rather than half, but the
> other cell will discharge into it. It is impossible to balance the
> charge.
>
> You could have 2x 24v series strings (20 cells each), each charged
> independently and when put in parallel for discharging there would be a
> series diode in each string ensuring it can only discharge, not shunt
> current from one string to the other.
>
> However, large series strings of NiMH can have difficult balance issues
> as well. Self-discharge in NiMH is high and somewhat variable from
> cell-to-cell and with temperature. NiMH loses most of its charge over
> like a month of just sitting on the shelf. Say we have a 10AH string
> but one self-discharges 1.5AH worse than another one. Well, why can't I
> just add another 1.5AH in during the charge? Two reasons. One, NiMH
> does NOT like overcharge. It will damage the cells, permanently
> decreasing their capacity. The cells which began in the best charge
> state are the ones which see the most overcharge. Second, the charge
> termination scheme used by most chargers watches for the voltage drop as
> the cells near full charge, but that's a transient effect. If there are
> only 8 cells in a string and each one does its voltage drop at different
> times, it's still detectable. With 20x in a string, the voltage drop of
> a single cell reaching full charge is much smaller relative to the whole
> voltage and it doesn't just scale up because each cell could do it at
> different times, then continue to rise back up and the individual events
> could be lost unless 2 or 3 cells do it at exactly the same time. Not
> that large series strings are impossible, Prius battery packs use them,
> but it require a high-tech battery management system.
>
> Paralleling 2 cells though, that's impossible. May work briefly on the
> testbench but will not work reliably in the field.
>
> Danny
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>I keep coming across info about NiMH being a problem when you are trying
>>to charge them in parallel- Can someone explain what the problem is? or a
>>site that details it?
>>
>>I'm thinking about making my own pack from 14AH NiMH cells, but they
>> can't
>>deliver enough current in series, so I want to understand what has to be
>>done to safely use parallel packs.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
I'm in Washington, an EV owner, and totally disinterested in this, so maybe
I'm typical.
I have no more use for a 35 mph vehicle than I do for a 25 mph vehicle. I
can tell you and some others are very passionate about this, and aplaud your
efforts, and can perhaps even see some personal benefit for myself, but for
the most part I see it as a real yawner...
damon
From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: FAST(er) NEV's - Update HB 1820 Washington State
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:00:43 -0700
Funny, this is not getting as much traction as I thought, I mean in the
EV community... With the potential number of EV Sales possible, I thought
it would be a Hot News Topic. After all a 25 mph limit is..
well... very limiting. But 35 mph is fairly USEFUL. Most in-city streets
and arterioles are 35 mph or less..
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thanks Mark, all very good points.
Mark Brueggemann wrote:
...
What EV'er *wouldn't* like to have quantitive data on
specific performance aspects of their creation? Personally
I would rather pay the price for the off the shelf solution
and get the benefit of working with data, rather than working
on the acquisition system.
What I've always wanted to implement is power (battery amps
and volts) vs GPS position, speed and direction, even ambient
temperature. You could plot your power use not as only a
function of time as you would with just an E-meter, but also
know the conditions such as grade and speed. ...
Mark "EV Basher" Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
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--- Begin Message ---
I was over at a friends house, where he has accumulated LOTS of junk
over the years.
He has an electric motor sitting there that is rated at 60HP
continuous, 500VDC. BIG thing.
So, anyone want to make an electric bus? He'll sell it really cheap... :-)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Group answer, thanks for the replies.
Caveat: on the enviro issue- the wife works for the air pollution control district, so she is the expert and will vouch
for the greeness of the solution.
David, let assume for the sake of this discussion that I have the pollution, efficiency, longevity, and noise issues of
a small genset solved. I may not be able to solve them cheaply enough in the aggregate, but I am confident of the
technical side of the solutions. If anyone likes discussing this ICEy stuff we can go OT, just mail me.
Skip, IMO Chevy Volt and fuelcell platform are both vaporware, and GM is likely to go bankrupt when it can't find a
buyer, then dump the pensions and medical costs along with the union, airline style. But maybe I am too cynical.
Roland, David:
As I read your answers, Roland says " no you can't charge while driving" and David says "yes but the output is small"
and Roland also says " I did it with a huge genset" so I am confused. Keep in mind my crude notions of this come from
the world of running a laptop off a power brick or a PC off a UPS, in both cases the control electronics are a black box
to me. Or I guess an ordinary ICE which charges the battery while discharging for lighting.
Will it damage the controller or genset or charger? ( i.e. is it certain,
likely or unlikely)
Will it actually increase the range, roughly by the ratio of genset Kw to
battery output Kw?
Can you get an increased Kw for hill climbing by combining the battery output and the generator output, or does that
require a separation of the generator from the batteries?
Thanks for going a bit out of your way on this.
JF
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steven Lough writes:
>
> Funny, this is not getting as much traction as I thought, I mean in the
> EV community... With the potential number of EV Sales possible, I
> thought it would be a Hot News Topic. After all a 25 mph limit is..
> well... very limiting. But 35 mph is fairly USEFUL. Most in-city
> streets and arterioles are 35 mph or less..
Maybe it's not getting much attention because it's not all that useful.
It may be true that most in-city streets are 35mph or less, but a large
number of in-city dwellers don't stay in-city enough to warrant a special
purpose vehicle for in-city driving.
For instance, I live in Portland and my work is 17 miles away in Tualatin.
It would be difficult to get to/from work without using the freeway.
A vehicle with a 35mph limit is no more useful to me than a vehicle with
a 25mph limit...
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:53 AM
Subject: Big Honking Motor
> I was over at a friends house, where he has accumulated LOTS of junk
> over the years.
> He has an electric motor sitting there that is rated at 60HP
> continuous, 500VDC. BIG thing.
> So, anyone want to make an electric bus? He'll sell it really cheap...
:-)
> --WOW! Where did he get THAT little jewel?Probably weighs 2000 lbs? PCC
trolley motor?They are about that size?I could convert my 54
Intertrashional School Bus camper to lectric, with that one! Only problem it
would costafortune to ship it to Corrupticut!Hmmm, no, it;'s too heavy to
bring home in a Prius?EVen if it is a series motor.
Seeya
Bob
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 3/21/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:17 AM 3/21/2007, Bob Rice wrote:
WOW! Where did he get THAT little jewel?Probably weighs 2000 lbs? PCC
trolley motor?They are about that size?I could convert my 54
Intertrashional School Bus camper to lectric, with that one! Only problem it
would costafortune to ship it to Corrupticut!Hmmm, no, it;'s too heavy to
bring home in a Prius?EVen if it is a series motor.
Lets see, I don't think it was over 3' long, and only about 18" dia.
He was guessing < 1000 lbs. So you could probably carry it in the
back seat! :-)
It probably came off some logging equipment somewhere.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard,
Concerning the ammeter. Ammeters are generally millivolt meters. The
current shunt is a calibrated resistor. So, at 400 amps, the voltage drop
across the shunt will be a predetermined voltage. Commonly 50 millivolts is
used for rated current. Then the ammeter would be scaled to read 400 amps at
50 millivolts. Even though it is a 400 amp meter, there is usually a note on
the scale (not in plain sight, but down in the corner in small print)
indicating the full scale voltage ( like FS = 50mV). The shunt should also
have the millivolts and current stamped on it. So, if you have a 400 A, 50 Mv
shunt, you need a 400 A meter with a FS = 50 mV. Not all shunts and meters are
50 mV. I have seen 70, 75 and 100 mV shunts and meters. You have to get a
properly scaled meter, brand is probably not a factor.
Jeff
Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I can't seem to find a source for E meters. I've googled and hit what
conversion sites I know of.
Aren't they still made or sold by someone?
Also, if I decide not to go that route, I'd like to install a 400 amp
ammeter. Mine is dead. The shunt is already in place. Won't any 400 amp
ammeter work with this shunt? Or are the brands tailored to work only with a
certain brand of shunt?
Rich
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--- Begin Message ---
Check out these new inexpensive battery monitor e-meters
$94 for 2 batteries
$99 for 3 batteries
http://www.micromediaplus.com/microlog_dmm-3_dmm-4.html
$94 for 2 batteries
$99 for 3 batteries
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Acuti
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:18 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: E meter source?
I can't seem to find a source for E meters. I've googled and hit what
conversion sites I know of.
Aren't they still made or sold by someone?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone can post info on EV components on the Seattle EVA wiki.
http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/Electric_motor
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:00 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Would any EV groups like a "motor info" FAQ's page?
On 20 Mar 2007 at 7:25, Jim Husted wrote:
> As to where and
> how to post, I'll just throw it out there and let you
> all post it where and how, as you feel fit 8^)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like a good candidate for a conversion of something like, oh...
maybe an F-250 ?
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:53 PM
> To: EV Discussion List
> Subject: Big Honking Motor
>
> I was over at a friends house, where he has accumulated LOTS of junk
> over the years.
> He has an electric motor sitting there that is rated at 60HP
> continuous, 500VDC. BIG thing.
> So, anyone want to make an electric bus? He'll sell it really cheap...
> :-)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
Just for the curious here I've actually gone for three Trojans after
all. 130AH at C/20 and I believe 105 at C5. I'll let you all know
how it goes when I get the new batteries on Saturday - but thanks for
all the help in the meantime!
Nikki.
P.S. I'm also planning something crazy with some lithiums too - but
more on that annon.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
On Mar 18, 2007, at 11:03 PM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
How big is the pack? Can't be two big.
Anyway, It does sound like a candidate for nimh. I have been seeing
used
prius packs on ebay recently, I assume there are priuses (PRiuii ???)
hitting the wrecking yards over there. Do you have honda insight's
The problem would be they are 288V 6.5 Ah, I am sure you would need
that
re-arranged and I can't advise on chargeing and management at that
point. But perhaps Honda Insite packs with BMS unit would be a better
choice at 144V 6.5ah
http://www.electric7.com/ http://www.electric7.com/construction.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you wanted to do 500V with 6V golf cart batteries you would need
about 80 of them! I think you would need a bigger vehicle than a truck!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Humphrey
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 13:48
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Big Honking Motor
Sounds like a good candidate for a conversion of something like, oh...
maybe an F-250 ?
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:53 PM
> To: EV Discussion List
> Subject: Big Honking Motor
>
> I was over at a friends house, where he has accumulated LOTS of junk
> over the years.
> He has an electric motor sitting there that is rated at 60HP
> continuous, 500VDC. BIG thing.
> So, anyone want to make an electric bus? He'll sell it really
cheap...
> :-)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This was sent to me by a 3rd party offlist but I thought I'd forward it to the
list for the benefit of all.
I don't know that this person is on this list but if we could drive him here
that would be great:
Eric Oswald wrote:
Hello, we\'re currently building an electric S10 and are wondering
about what methods do you recommend for protecting the Warp9 during
operation. The vehicle will be operated in an area where snow and
significant rain an not uncommon. Does the motor have to be encased in
anything to protect it from the elements? If so, what do you recommend
for a cooling solution and capacity of the cooling method given regular
light driving? Any information you have on this would be most helpful.
Thanks
Mike Willmon wrote:
Hi Eric,
This is Mike Willmon up in Anchorage. While our average temperatures up here
are not all that high it does occasionally hit the
80's mark here in Anchorage. During those few days and many in the upper 70's
my motor never got too hot to touch, and certainly
never popped the snap switch. This is with a 192V pack pushing a full 1000 A
to the motor. Lots of quick starts and several
miles of driving and I'm usually where I need to go for a while. Even under
moderate sustained driving at moderate ambient temps
you probably won't have much of a problem with cooling. That is unless you can
build in a pack that'll actually drive you for
much more than an hour. On the other hand I think Ryan Bohm at EVSource.com
has a kit for a centrifugal blower for this motor.
The motor can never be too cool. In fact driving around in subzero weather the
thing would barely accumulate any sensible heat.
You won't be recovering any waste heat for the cabin from this motor unless you
run it at high current continuously, something
most EV packs don't like to do.
On the environmental protection part I initially built a belly pan with just
that foam core posterboard for a template. I had
intended to use the template to build a sheet metal pan but never got around to
it. Surprisingly the foam core posterboard is
holding up really well. It keeps the splashing from the water almost totally
out of the motor compartment. Even driving in
pouring rain I would at most find a couple drops of water on the motor. I also
have a lexan sheet covering the entire radiator
location. Mainly to keep bugs, rocks and birds out of the motor compartment.
I have a 5 Gallon Igloo water cooler jug that I've
been meaning to build a shroud out of to cover the front part of the motor and
the brush ports. I was going to seal it up all the
way around the midpoint of the motor but then I'd have to provide a fan with an
intake filter to force air through the brush
rigging. But I haven't got around to that and after 10 months of driving there
is only a little bit of dust on the bottom of the
motor housing. I have to pull the motor to replace my throwout bearing later
this summer anyway and I'll pull the motor apart,
blow it out and take some baking soda and water to the commutators to clean
them up. Other than the little bit of dust from the
gravel they put down on the roads in the winter the motor is just fine. One
thing to note about the little bit of water that
accumulated on the motor housing, it dries up fast when the motor is even a
little warm.
Mike Willmon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1093
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm, he says "blow it out and take some baking soda and water to the
commutators to
clean them up." I wonder if that is an approved method. Jim?
Jeff
MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This was sent to me by a 3rd party offlist but I thought I'd forward it to
the list for the benefit of all.
I don't know that this person is on this list but if we could drive him here
that would be great:
Eric Oswald wrote:
Hello, we\'re currently building an electric S10 and are wondering
about what methods do you recommend for protecting the Warp9 during
operation. The vehicle will be operated in an area where snow and
significant rain an not uncommon. Does the motor have to be encased in
anything to protect it from the elements? If so, what do you recommend
for a cooling solution and capacity of the cooling method given regular
light driving? Any information you have on this would be most helpful.
Thanks
Mike Willmon wrote:
Hi Eric,
This is Mike Willmon up in Anchorage. While our average temperatures up here
are not all that high it does occasionally hit the
80's mark here in Anchorage. During those few days and many in the upper 70's
my motor never got too hot to touch, and certainly
never popped the snap switch. This is with a 192V pack pushing a full 1000 A to
the motor. Lots of quick starts and several
miles of driving and I'm usually where I need to go for a while. Even under
moderate sustained driving at moderate ambient temps
you probably won't have much of a problem with cooling. That is unless you can
build in a pack that'll actually drive you for
much more than an hour. On the other hand I think Ryan Bohm at EVSource.com has
a kit for a centrifugal blower for this motor.
The motor can never be too cool. In fact driving around in subzero weather the
thing would barely accumulate any sensible heat.
You won't be recovering any waste heat for the cabin from this motor unless you
run it at high current continuously, something
most EV packs don't like to do.
On the environmental protection part I initially built a belly pan with just
that foam core posterboard for a template. I had
intended to use the template to build a sheet metal pan but never got around to
it. Surprisingly the foam core posterboard is
holding up really well. It keeps the splashing from the water almost totally
out of the motor compartment. Even driving in
pouring rain I would at most find a couple drops of water on the motor. I also
have a lexan sheet covering the entire radiator
location. Mainly to keep bugs, rocks and birds out of the motor compartment. I
have a 5 Gallon Igloo water cooler jug that I've
been meaning to build a shroud out of to cover the front part of the motor and
the brush ports. I was going to seal it up all the
way around the midpoint of the motor but then I'd have to provide a fan with an
intake filter to force air through the brush
rigging. But I haven't got around to that and after 10 months of driving there
is only a little bit of dust on the bottom of the
motor housing. I have to pull the motor to replace my throwout bearing later
this summer anyway and I'll pull the motor apart,
blow it out and take some baking soda and water to the commutators to clean
them up. Other than the little bit of dust from the
gravel they put down on the roads in the winter the motor is just fine. One
thing to note about the little bit of water that
accumulated on the motor housing, it dries up fast when the motor is even a
little warm.
Mike Willmon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1093
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--- Begin Message ---
Ok, so now we can add humble to your credit.
About that rock... well, I'm working on that!
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: Live from PIR, Fireball Incident
Hey Ken
Well thanks for the kind words. As for me I'm just a
normal (least I'd like to think that) guy just like
all of you who are trying to help shift the worlds
paradigm to electric powered cars. I have no
illusions of grandure but am proud to be a member of
what we call the EV community 8^)
Einstein? ya right!, Tesla, worng again, Man your
funnier than Mike Willmon, hehe. A Spartan with a
sharp stick, that might be getting close, LMAO.
Anyway stop shouting encouragement from behind that
rock and get up here and help me chop up those damn
motor Persians would you! My arms getting tired (no
pun intended) 8^)
It's like shooting fish in a barrel but there are so
damn many of them!
You post tells me in fact that I might have more of
you guys fooled than Wayland does 8^) Not sure what
posts you've been reading but as for me I feel more
like Steve Martin in Planes, trains, and automobiles.
Than the brainiacs you mention.
If nothing else hopefully I'll have gained good
friends and one hell of a story to tell my grandkids
(the real ones) about a little road trip Wayland got
me into.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hey Jim!
>
> If you feel a bit "weird" from all the "weird" talk
> about you "loving" your "child" motors, don't feel
> bad. You are in very good company. It turns out
> that to do extraordinary things, you have to be an
> extraordinary person. Normal people do normal
> things, not great things. Albert Einstein was
> considered "weird", so was Nikola Tesla. So, the
> next time someone suggests you may be not quite
> normal, smile and realize that is a great
> compliment!
>
> Ken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Let me put it this way, the gen set can charge the battery while the battery
is not running the motor. During that time the batteries are being charge,
the motor is running off the gen set power.
Your alternator in a ICE does the same thing. The only time the accessory 12
volt battery is use, is when the engine is not running and not turning the
alternator and if you have some accessory power on at that time. The
alternator regulator is turn off during the starting up of a engine, and
after the engine is started, the alternator regulator is turn on and it
charges the battery while the alternator provides full power to all the
other 12 volt loads.
At this time when the battery is being charge, the alternator voltage is
higher than the battery voltage, so the current flow is from negative to
positive through the battery which is the charge cycle.
There is no current flow from the positive to negative of the battery during
the charging cycle.
If the alternator is shut down, than you will start to draw current from the
battery.
In my EV, I use a large deep cycle 12 volt battery to run my accessories and
a DC-DC-DC-AC inverter-alternator. This battery can be charge to 90% with
this alternator and then the regulator is shut down until the battery is
down to 50% DOD and than it charges it again. This method reduces the load
off the DC-DC converters that drive this unit.
I also use a mechanical regen that the main motor can connect to the the
alternator inverter during coast down. The main battery at that time is
reading 0 amps, but the rotary converter-inverter system is supply all the
accessory power which I can read on eight gages which shows:
Main motor ampere = 0 amperes
Battery ampere = 0 amperes
12 volt battery = 14.8 volts (charge cycle)
Inverter = 120 vac
Converter = 110 vdc
Accessory battery current flow to accessories during charge cycle reads 0
amps
When the alternator is shut down, than only the battery starts to supply
power.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "john fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: charging while driving question
>
> Group answer, thanks for the replies.
>
> Caveat: on the enviro issue- the wife works for the air pollution control
> district, so she is the expert and will vouch
> for the greeness of the solution.
>
> David, let assume for the sake of this discussion that I have the
> pollution, efficiency, longevity, and noise issues of
> a small genset solved. I may not be able to solve them cheaply enough in
> the aggregate, but I am confident of the
> technical side of the solutions. If anyone likes discussing this ICEy
> stuff we can go OT, just mail me.
>
> Skip, IMO Chevy Volt and fuelcell platform are both vaporware, and GM is
> likely to go bankrupt when it can't find a
> buyer, then dump the pensions and medical costs along with the union,
> airline style. But maybe I am too cynical.
>
> Roland, David:
>
> As I read your answers, Roland says " no you can't charge while driving"
> and David says "yes but the output is small"
> and Roland also says " I did it with a huge genset" so I am confused. Keep
> in mind my crude notions of this come from
> the world of running a laptop off a power brick or a PC off a UPS, in both
> cases the control electronics are a black box
> to me. Or I guess an ordinary ICE which charges the battery while
> discharging for lighting.
>
> Will it damage the controller or genset or charger? ( i.e. is it certain,
> likely or unlikely)
> Will it actually increase the range, roughly by the ratio of genset Kw to
> battery output Kw?
> Can you get an increased Kw for hill climbing by combining the battery
> output and the generator output, or does that
> require a separation of the generator from the batteries?
>
> Thanks for going a bit out of your way on this.
>
> JF
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:47 AM 3/21/2007, Tim Humphrey wrote:
Sounds like a good candidate for a conversion of something like, oh...
maybe an F-250 ?
More like an F600.
Of course, using it in an F250, I'd probably never need to worry
about the motor overheating!
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Big Honking Motor
> At 11:17 AM 3/21/2007, Bob Rice wrote:
> >WOW! Where did he get THAT little jewel?Probably weighs 2000 lbs? PCC
> >trolley motor?They are about that size?I could convert my 54
> >Intertrashional School Bus camper to lectric, with that one! Only problem
it
> >would costafortune to ship it to Corrupticut!Hmmm, no, it;'s too heavy to
> >bring home in a Prius?EVen if it is a series motor.
>
> Lets see, I don't think it was over 3' long, and only about 18" dia.
> He was guessing < 1000 lbs. So you could probably carry it in the
> back seat! :-)
> It probably came off some logging equipment somewhere.
>
> --And if ya live in Seattle, Vancouver, or SF their lots of 500 plus DC
wires just hanging around, for the trakless trolleys! Who needs Badd-eries.
Your F-250 would go like hell!Don't ya HATE seeing them going to waste?Some
nice light bamboo trolley poles, copper shoe on top, wires fed through
natures' perfect conduit?
My two poles worth
Bob again.
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 3/21/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 21 Mar 2007 at 16:29, damon henry wrote:
> I have no more use for a 35 mph vehicle than I do for a 25 mph vehicle.
That's my first reaction too, but then I think of the Comuta-Car I had.
Its 38 mph top speed was actually pretty reasonable for use in town. I
think that 10 mph does make a significant difference.
That said, I still couldn't take the C-Car on the innerbelt (50-55mph), and
35mph NEVs won't be able to go there either. In many midwestern cities it's
a major pain to plot a route that avoids the innerbelt and goes through town
- especially since on often hast to travel through some rough neighborhoods.
I think that in most US cities, an EV has to be able to make at least 50mph
to be really useful. But the extra 10mph proposed here would help.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 21 Mar 2007 at 9:02, jim wrote:
> When I go to .....
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/
>
> it says ...You are not allowed to access this group
I posted about this on the 19th. Did you not receive or read it? Here's a
rerun :
I regret to announce that the Yahoo single message archive is currently (and
probably permanently) down. See the forwarded message below from the
individual who created that archive, Bruce Parmenter.
SJSU is in the process of converting its lists to Mailman processing.
Mailman provides builtin support for archiving and has hooks for Mhonarc.
I'll inquire about what we may be able to do with this archiving when the
transition takes place.
In the meantime, please use one of the primary digest archives :
http://www.mail-archive.com/ev@listproc.sjsu.edu/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/
I'll remove the link to the dead archive from the evdl.org support pages.
Sorry for the inconvenience, and thanks for your understanding. If you have
thoughts or suggestions that you'd like to discuss with me by email, please
send a PRIVATE email message to the address you'll find at the bottom of
this
page :
http://www.evdl.org/help/
David
= = =
Forwarded message from Bruce Parmenter :
> Since:
>
> -so many try to join the archive when it states they are
> not allowed,
>
> -it causes confusion to which witch is which,
>
> -now not all POSTs are listed, plus
>
> -when you do click on a POST, yahoo states the message is
> unavailable,
>
> I have changed the settings of the group to disable it.
>
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
so you are saying in order to get this PHEV to work, either the genset needs to make similar Kw to the battery set so it
can drive the motor effectively, or ( hypothetically speaking) you need two battery sets which you can switch back and
forth. One being discharged while the other is charging...
Did I get this right?
Oh and the same principles apply to lithiums as lead?
thanks
John
Roland Wiench wrote:
Let me put it this way, the gen set can charge the battery while the battery
is not running the motor. During that time the batteries are being charge,
the motor is running off the gen set power.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:50 PM
Subject: RE: FAST(er) NEV's - Update HB 1820 Washington State
> On 21 Mar 2007 at 16:29, damon henry wrote:
>
> > I have no more use for a 35 mph vehicle than I do for a 25 mph vehicle.
Me TOO See below!
> That's my first reaction too, but then I think of the Comuta-Car I had.
>
> Its 38 mph top speed was actually pretty reasonable for use in town. I
> think that 10 mph does make a significant difference.
>
> That said, I still couldn't take the C-Car on the innerbelt (50-55mph),
and
> 35mph NEVs won't be able to go there either. In many midwestern cities
it's
> a major pain to plot a route that avoids the innerbelt and goes through
town
> - especially since on often hast to travel through some rough
neighborhoods.
>
>
> I think that in most US cities, an EV has to be able to make at least
50mph
> to be really useful. But the extra 10mph proposed here would help.
>
>
Hi EVerybody;
Those 35 MPH Electrics are pretty useless in places that have HILLS and
weather. BOTH knock the hell out of the speed/range. ONLY being able to do
35 on the leval, NOT bogging down to 15 on hills the SUV's fly up at 10-15
OVER the posted speed limits. Remember speed limit signs are merely
suggestions as are most OTHER traffic signs!
THAT'S why Crapsler bought up GEM...... THERE! EV's aren't any good! See
how slow they are?Alot less bum publicity than GM got, killing the EV-1's
and they didn't have build or market any.
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 3/21/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
