Hi FieroNewbie, I hope you do get signed up for the email service on EVDL. It is much more convenient since you get email responses and can simply reply to them.
My EV conversion is a 1993 Honda del Sol. Depending upon what you want, I think it could be very representative of your Fiero. They are both 2-seater convertible sports cars that weigh about 2500 pounds. Note that is much heavier than one might guess based on their size. The Fiero has a curb weight of about 2500 pounds and the del Sol was about 2300 stock. After conversion, my del Sol weighs about 2550 pounds. My commute is 23 miles one-way, so I needed something with about 50 miles range. If I couldn't charge at work, I would actually need more. The range is 50 miles in the summer, but about 35-40 miles in winter, depending how much I run the heater. I regularly drive my car on the freeway and highway so it needs to be able to drive 65 mph+. Mine does that, but it doesn't have a whole lot of margin. I think its top speed is probably around 80 mph. I have had it to 75 mph. Given that background, my car has: Advanced DC FB1-4001-A 9" DC motor - This is very common for conversions of this size and even a little larger. Plenty big enough for this car, but I don't think something much smaller would meet my needs. I've seen the same motor used in Chevy S-10 pickups too. Kelly KDH14100D - 1000A DC controller - It isn't actually 1000A for long. There are higher-powered controllers readily available. If you want performance, this probably isn't the controller for you, but it has worked for me. I couldn't use much higher power because my batteries can't provide huge amounts of current. This controller is somewhat cheaper than some others, but it comes from and is supported from China. Elcon PFC 2000+ charger - Set for 144V nominal system. I think 144V is a good system voltage for a car of this size and weight. Personally, I wouldn't go below 120V for sure. The charger can use either 120VAC and 240VAC interchangeably, which is nice. This is also from China, but has worked very well for me. Elcon DC-DC converter - Used to charge the 12V battery. I still have the 12V battery to turn on the main contactor and energize the DC-DC converter. The 12V battery also provides surge current if instant loads exceed the converter output. Others have wired the converter to be always live and go without the battery. If you did that, it would take a larger converter. Mine is large enough (300W) for average use, but not necessarily peak use. Electric power brake vacuum booster - Used to keep the power brakes working normally. Nice to have. MES-DEA RM4 fluid heater - Connects to the car's heater core and provides heat. Advantage is that all heater controls work without change. Disadvantage is that these are $700 or more. Mine came with the car. Obviously, these cut range when used. ThunderSky 100Ah LFP100 3.2V Lithium Iron Phosphate cells - 45 of them to make a nominal 144V system. Each cell has a MiniBMS monitoring board on top of it. This watches for undervoltage or overvoltage and alerts a main board if it sees either case. They also have small current shunts to help top-balance the packs. These cells take up about 2/3 of the space under the hood, plus 1/2 the trunk. They are NOT small! Today, I would recommend CALB. ThunderSky has changed names and is not commonly available. For my use, 100Ah is about the smallest I could go. You might be able to use smaller, or might need larger. I don't know much about lead-acid. As a rough rule of thumb, you will be able to go about as far on 9 kWh of lithium cells as your donor car could go on a gallon of gas. My car has 13 kWh and the del Sol was about 33 MPG, so the 50 mile range is right in line with that guideline. Budget: The problem with this project is that the list I described above is about $14K+ in parts new. The cells and BMS alone were over $5K four years ago. I think they would be more now. There are possible ways to go cheaper (smaller motor, smaller controller, lower voltage, lead-acid instead of LiFePO4), but the vehicle wouldn't meet my needs with those cheaper parts. It might meet yours, though. However, unless you scrounge a lot of used parts, I think you should plan on spending somewhere in the range of $7-14K if your intention is to make a road-worthy vehicle that can go on the highway and has 30+ mile range. As Bruce mentioned, it really requires knowledge of what you need/want to do. Almost anything is possible, but costs go up very quickly. Cheap solutions usually aren't high performance. BTW, my conversion has somewhat expensive batteries, but in all other respects, I would describe its parts as OK-good, but nothing spectacular. People going for high performance solutions easily spend 2X-3X the cost of my car. Bruce also mentioned the possibility of buying a used EV conversion. I highly recommend looking into that. I found my car on evtradinpost.com. The cheapest way to buy EV parts is often as a conversion that is half-finished or needs new batteries. I got my car, newly converted, for about $2500 less than the cost of parts. I've done lots of work on it since, but most of the parts are still the original. The evtradinpost also has parts for sale, but quite variable from week to week what is there. Craigslist is another option to find local vehicles. I would recommend two books for people looking into a conversion. The first is "Convert It!" from Mike Brown. The second is "Build Your Own Electric Vehicle" by Bob Brant. There is a 2nd edition of Brant's book. Brown's book does a better job of describing the "nuts and bolts" of the conversion. What you remove, where to put the new parts, how to hook them up. Brant does a much better job of describing the physics behind an electric vehicle and helping you understand how/why you need certain specifications. For designing an EV from the ground up, or deciding the right parts, it is a great book. I think it would be money well spent to get both books. Once you get on the email and we can see your questions, ask away! This is a great group with tremendous knowledge. I started here about 5-6 years ago with "I think I would like an EV someday" types of questions. Mike P.S. When buying parts for the system, be careful about matching system voltage. You don't want a 144V battery and charger, but a 120V controller. It will likely be damaged with the higher voltage. Your contactor, motor, controller, charger, DC-DC converter, heater, and batteries should ideally be matched to the same maximum voltage. If not matched, make sure they all are specified for at least the maximum charge voltage you will see on your pack. A 144V nominal system may see almost 160V at the very end of the charge cycle, depending upon charger settings. > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall > Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 6:55 AM > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: Re: [EVDL] FieroNewbie's : 1986 Pontiac Fiero conversion > > The EV bug that I've been working on had that $4000 EV conversion kit... > and it's is entirely not suited for a car that heavy. I have to imagine that a > Fiero is heavier than than a '73 VW bug. So far, I've added actual circuit > breakers, a battery monitor, a proper battery charger, a cooling fan and heat > sink on the controller, and got the point where I found that the marine deep > cycle batteries cannot move a car that heavy for more than > 5 or 6 miles before too much voltage sag sets in. Currently upgrading it to > lithium batteries, but then I'm sure the motor will be the weakest link > -- I was able to get close to overheating the motor on hills with the lead acid > batteries, but they died before the motor overheated.... To do a roadgoing > EV, you really need more like $10k it seems, unless you get a lot of used > parts. > > To made a roadgoing ICE, from scratch starting with a glider, with all new > parts, would probably cost just as much, BTW. It's just that used parts for > ICE's are much more available. > > Z > > > On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 10:52 PM, brucedp5 <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > [ref > > > > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/1986-Pont > > iac-Fiero-conversion-tp4668635.html > > ] > > > > I sent an email to FieroNewbie letting them know that they mistakenly > > subscribed to the evdl nabble archive and have not properly subscribed > > to the evdl (their archive posts are not seen by members). I > > encouraged them to subscribe so that we could have a dialog. > > > > This type of thing happens regularly, so I have a sort-of form letter > > I send out. Most of the time, they get subscribed properly. Or when > > they try and fail, I ask our beloved sys-admin David, to lend a hand. > > > > But FieroNewbie is either afk, has lost interest, or thrown their > > hands up in frustration. Too bad, there are plenty of read hits, so > > there are evdl members that would have liked to help them achieve the > goals. > > > > Leaving a message like this, where one party is not subscribed so that > > members can't talk to them, really does not work (they really need to > > get subscribed properly). But allowing for different personalities, I > > will post some points, and perhaps others will too. It may help > > FieroNewbie, we do not know (we can't talk to them). But, I hope this > > effort encourages them to subscribe properly to the evdl.org , and get > > the free advice and EV information from experienced EV > > converters/builders. > > > > > > A conversion is not a cheap project, unless you were aiming to only > > make it move at city street speeds for only a few miles (like a > > sub-highway speed neighborhood EV, a nEV). I will assume that does not > > fit your EV driving needs, and you really want an EV that can go > > 65mph, with a 30+ mile range, and feel safe when mixing it up on the > > highway. That is going to cost money (and so would fixing up the Fiero as an > gas-car, an ice). > > > > Until FieroNewbie gets subscribed, I can suggest that they look at all > > the configurations of Fiero's already converted on evalbum.com Using > > a search > > gives: > > https://www.google.com/search?q=evalbum+fiero > > > > Looking at their converted EVs gives the newbie an idea of what > > components were used, and what performance those gave. Different > > system voltages, controllers, motors, give different performances at > > different project costs. > > > > BTW, when you do begin your EV conversion project, I suggest you grab > > a free evalbum page. Then you can reference to it's web page address, > > URL, in your discussions (and future posts with your progress, etc.). > > Even if you do not have any pictures yet, just put up the basics so > > others can know quickly what is happening. Their web pages are very > > easy, and you do not need to be a programmer to use them. > > > > Referencing back to trying to do this on the cheap, it might have been > > wiser to not have bought the donor, but buy a working but > > used/pre-owned EV conversion. These can be still found, and at a good > > price. But you may have to pay to have it hauled home (don't jsut > > search locally, search nation-wide). > > > > If you do get subscribed properly, please post: > > -where you are (a general idea, i.e.: in UT, etc.)? > > > > -what you want your EV to do (what top&cruising-speed, range@65mph, > > charging-time& @what AC voltage, and at what total project cost)? > > > > -state how much mechanical experience you have, and is the work going > > to be done in a location that can have the donor be dismantled for > months+ ? > > > > > > I hope you do get subscribed properly to the evdl.org , we would like > > to help you. > > > > > > Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter > > brucedp.150m.com > > (Near Silicon Valley, south of SF, CA USA) > > > > > > > > - > > 1986 Pontiac Fiero conversion > > Mar 24, 2014; 4:45pm -- by FieroNewbie I picked up the Fiero for an EV > > conversion. It has a fiberglass body that's in good shape but needs a > > paint job. EV conversion is new to me and I was about to purchase the > > whole conversion kit from a company in Utah that does EV conversions > > but when people on the Internet got sticker shock at the > > $4,000 price tag (I would also have to buy the lead acid batteries for > > at least $900), they suggested that I purchase the components > > separately and save a couple of thousand dollars. > > > > No one has been helpful in selecting the specific motor, the > > controller (Paul & Sabrina's controller looks reasonable) and the > > other parts needed for the conversion. Can anyone help me in > > selecting the components needed for my project? > > - > > > > > > > > -- > > View this message in context: > > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/1986-Pont > > iac-Fiero-conversion-tp4668635p4668636.html > > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at > > Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev- > evdl.org/attachments/20140325/68773689/attachment.htm> > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
