I think it also has to be net energy positive, though I can't say that rolling resistance changes would be part of that calculation. Then again, I can't say that rolling resistance is actually impacted at all - I suspect the technical report discusses this. All that being said, this is early demonstration, so if rolling resistance is truly an issue, seems to me that you've got basic technology proved, with work needing to be done to improve cost and rolling resistance.
Sent from AltaMail From: "Peri Hartman" <pe...@kotatko.com> To: ma...@enviropolicy.com, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> CC: brucedp5 <bruce...@operamail.com>, "ev@lists.evdl.org" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re[2]: [EVDL] Piezo-power> 10mi of freeway could charge all the EVs in Burbank-CA(?) Date: 8/26/16, 8:59 AM Good information. The one big thing missing is a requirement of a maximum rolling resistance. If these are the essential specs, I'd submit a bid to build a squishy highway and easily meet the other requirements :) Peri ------ Original Message ------ From: "Mark Abramowitz" <ma...@enviropolicy.com> To: "Peri Hartman" <pe...@kotatko.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: "brucedp5" <bruce...@operamail.com>; "ev@lists.evdl.org" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: 26-Aug-16 8:30:24 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Piezo-power> 10mi of freeway could charge all the EVs in Burbank-CA(?) The funding is part of CEC's EPIC program, which helps develop and test new technologies. This is a solicitation for bids only right now - nothing has been awarded yet, and is supposedly based on some breakthroughs in the technology. The systems must meet or exceed the following performance specifications: • LCOE less than or equal to $0.10/kWh;• Capital cost less than $10,000/kW;• Power density greater than or equal to 300 W/sq ft; and• Lifetime greater than or equal to 15 years. Here's a link to the solicitation: http://www.energy.ca.gov/contracts/GFO-16-302/00_Update_Two_Phase_Solicitation_Manual_for_CGL.docx The technology assessment from 2013-2014 can also be found on the CEC site. Sent from AltaMail From: Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: brucedp5 <bruce...@operamail.com>, ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] Piezo-power> 10mi of freeway could charge all the EVs in Burbank-CA(?) Date: 8/26/16, 7:25 AM Really? Is rolling resistance so high that there's energy to power Burbank? I'm not going to do the math but it sounds preposterous. Ok, some of the math: 105000 homes at an average of 1MWh/month. That's 10.5GWh/month or 14.5Mwh/hour. So, that strip of highway needs to produce 14.5Mw. Still seems preposterous. Really, again? Even if all those cars rolling on the highway can produce 14.5Mw, is that a good idea? Seems we want to reduce rolling resistance and make EVs (and other vehicles) more efficient. To give the benefit of the doubt, maybe it's a tradeoff and the rolling resistance of asphalt is being traded for that of piezoelectrics. Peri ------ Original Message ------ From: "brucedp5 via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 26-Aug-16 2:40:55 AM Subject: [EVDL] Piezo-power> 10mi of freeway could charge all the EVs in Burbank-CA(?) > > >http://www.awaken.com/2016/08/california-freeways-will-soon-generate-electricity/#14718579495901&action=collapse_widget&id=0&data= > >California Freeways Will Soon Generate Electricity >August 22, 2016 Laura Goldman > >[image >http://www.awaken.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/1.jpg >] > >Energy conservation is probably not the first thing that comes to mind >when >you think about freeways jammed with idling vehicles… > >Awaken >But in California, which has some of the most congested freeways in the >country, that’s about to change. The California Energy Commission (CEC) >has >approved a pilot program in which piezoelectric crystals will be >installed >on several freeways. > >No, these aren’t some kind of new-agey crystals with mystical powers. >Piezoelectric crystals, about the size of watch batteries, give off an >electrical discharge when they’re mechanically stressed, such as when a >vehicle drives over them. Multiply that by thousands of vehicles and it >creates an electric current that can be harvested to feed the grid. > >In fact, scientists estimate the energy generated from piezoelectric >crystals on a 10-mile stretch of freeway could provide power for the >entire >city of Burbank (population: more than 105,000). > >“I still get stopped on the street by people who ask what happened to >the >idea of using our roads to generate electricity,” said Mike Gatto, a >Los >Angeles assemblyman, in a press releaseannouncing the program. >“California >is the car capital of the world and we recycle just about everything. >So why >not capture the energy from road vibrations and put it to good use?” > >Piezoelectric-based energy‐harvesting technology is already being used >in >other countries. Since 2009, all the displays in the East Japan Railway >Company’s Tokyo station have been powered by people walking on the >piezoelectric flooring. Italy has signed a contract that will install >this >technology in a portion of the Venice-to-Trieste Autostrada. Israel is >already using this technology on some highways, which is how Gatto got >the >idea for the pilot program in California. A friend returning from a >trip to >Israel raved about a road that produced energy. > >“If piezoelectric‐based technology has the potential to match the >performance, reliability and costs of existing or emerging renewable >energy >sources, then it can potentially diversify California’s resource >portfolio >and ultimately increase grid reliability and reduce costs to >ratepayers,” >states a report prepared for the CEC in 2014 by international >certification >body and classification society DNV KEMA Energy & Sustainability (now >known >as DNV GL). > >Piezoelectric technology has been used for years in electric guitars >and >sonar. The crystals are “in effect the reverse of sonar: a vibration >comes >in and an electric pulse comes out,” according to the press release. >This >video provides an animated illustration of how they could generate >electricity on roadways. > >After California Gov. Brown vetoed an assembly bill Gatto introduced in >2011 >that would have launched two piezoelectric pilot programs in >California, >Gatto asked the CEC to study the technology. Five years later, the CEC >has >agreed to fund pilot projects around the state. > >If they are successful, perhaps other states will consider harvesting >electricity from their busy roadways. > >“Thirty years ago, no one would have believed that black silicon panels >in >the desert could generate ‘solar‘ power,” Gatto stated. “Piezoelectric >technology is real and I am glad the state has finally acknowledged its >potential in becoming an energy source.” >[© awaken.com] >... >http://www.ecowatch.com/california-freeways-generate-electricity-piezoelectric-crystals-1967109463.html > >California Freeways Will Soon Generate Electricity >Aug 10, 2016 > > > > >For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: >http://evdl.org/evln/ > > >{brucedp.0catch.com} > >-- >View this message in context: >http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Piezo-power-10mi-of-freeway-could-charge-all-the-EVs-in-Burbank-CA-tp4683459.html > >Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at >Nabble.com. >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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