I don’t know where you get this kind of thinking. They are not high priced cars. Mine was $46,000. A Toyota Highlander is $42,000 and a Subaru Ascent is $46,000. If you get a comparable car you will pay about the same.
Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 14, 2018, at 8:45 AM, mark hanson via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > Lee Wrote: > > > > “It only works if you get every single detail right. That's expensive. You > can afford it for luxury cars where there is enough money to do it right. > But I have serious doubts that it can be scaled to mass-produce cheap EVs. > They'll get beat by the first company to figure out the best way to use far > smaller numbers of much bigger cells. > > > > Complex solutions always come first. Simple solutions take longer to > perfect; but usually win out in the end.” > >> > > Exactly Lee! So probably the real reason I won’t buy a Tesla is I can’t > afford one (because of the thousands of itty bitty cells that make it > expensive to manufacturer). I’m still concerned about the long term > reliability and business model of a lower cost (aprox $30K) car that can’t > afford to have “Tesla Rangers” field service guys running out to your house > when the battery burps – like they do now on the high priced Teslas to cover > up the issues. As far as I know they haven’t shipped any lower priced Tesla > 3’s and would be surprised if they could turn a profit *without going to > large format cells like all other EV manufacturers*. Not sure if Elon > Musk’s Ego will let him make that change though, like Edison with DC who > had to be forced out of GE (When Tesla had a better idea with AC) Déjà Vu > > > > Mark > > > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 13:22:45 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > > From: Lee Hart <leeah...@earthlink.net> > > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla > > Message-ID: > > <20404926.1563.1539368565...@wamui-sassy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > Rod Hower via EV wrote: > >>>> You probably shouldn't use microcontrollers because they have > >>>> millions of transistors with the potential of failure... > > > > David Roden wrote: > >>> I don't think it's quite the same. The microcontroller has lots > >>> of semiconductors, but they're all formed at one go on one > >>> substrate. OTOH, the lithium cells are individual units, > >>> manufactured individually, with individually welded connections. > >>> > >>> I too was skeptical about the Tesla ant colony battery construction > >>> -- which IIRC actually was used in earlier EVs with much less > >>> publicity and far lower production numbers. I believe the T-Zero > >>> Roadster was one of them. > > > > Paul Dove wrote > >> It?s called sarcasm! > > > > (smiles) so true... but it's hard to recognize sarcasm when folks aren't > familiar with the actual situation. > > > > Putting lots of parts on the same chip means the reliability of each part is > closely related to the rest. If one part is good, they're all good. If one > transistor is weak, or one resistor has a resistance too low, they are ALL > are weak or low resistance. And when one part fails, they all likely to > fail. > > > > Same for batteries. Yes, a big cell is really a lot of small cells inside. > It may have multiple plates wired in parallel, or one big plate folded or > rolled into a cylinder (any piece of which would have been a fine cell in > its own right). All these little cells were manufactured at the same time, > and are "identical twins". Then they all get put in one big case, which > seals the whole lot of them. This means they will all be kept together, at > the same temperature, and experience the same charging and discharging > regimen. > > > > Contrast that with individual cells. When they started mass-producing cheap > 18650 lithium cells for laptops, many people independently came up with the > idea of using thousands of them to build an EV pack. The initial attempts > were failures, because there were too many differences between cells. Lots > of failures and fires. Alan Cocconi is the first person I heard of that > succeeded with them in his tZero. It required carefully matched cells, and a > BMS to individually monitor them. The tZero inspired the Tesla Roadster, and > led to their subsequent EVs. > > > > It only works if you get every single detail right. That's expensive. You > can afford it for luxury cars where there is enough money to do it right. > But I have serious doubts that it can be scaled to mass-produce cheap EVs. > They'll get beat by the first company to figure out the best way to use far > smaller numbers of much bigger cells. > > > > Complex solutions always come first. Simple solutions take longer to > perfect; but usually win out in the end. > > > > > > -- > > Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James > > -- > > Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com > > > > > > > > Have a renewable energy day, > > > > Mark > > > > Mark E. Hanson > > 184 Vista Lane > > Fincastle, VA 24090 > > 540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell > > REEVA: community service RE & EV project club > > Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery) > > UL Certified PV Installer > > My RE&EV Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh > > FREE Solar EV Charging! ; http://www.WeatherLink.com/user/MarkHansonREEVA > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181014/40a7e59c/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
