I hear a lot of hand-waving and little data in claims about lots of change in hydrogen technology.
For the topic of making transportation hydrogen renewable – nobody is contesting that for the handful of cars that actually drive on Hydrogen, it is simple to switch small scale to use full renewable. BTW, it is still an *intent* to move to full renewable, I have not seen *commitment* for the investment… The big issue and you seem intent to continue to avoid that, is that switching to Hydrogen will greatly *increase* the energy consumption compared to driving on electricity from the grid directly using batteries. By increasing the energy consumption (approximately 3-fold) you also increase any associated emissions. Since Renewable Energy is still a finite resource, consuming 3 times as much means that more non-renewable needs to be produced, unless you can find a way to uniquely capture RE that would otherwise not be utilized – which is sometimes possible in case of over-production of RE. Still, the production of Hydrogen as energy carrier is about the silliest possible solution. I have seen arguments for non-scientific people where the claim is that H2 is the future because it is the fastest, lightest fuel available. That is an interesting way to state the biggest hurdle for the use of Hydrogen, the fact that it carries the least amount of energy, because it is the lightest and therefor the most voluminous of all possible fuels. But I understand the desire of the oil companies to maintain their markets and models of fuel distribution, especially if the tax payers will be footing the bill. I have not heard much new arguments that make a case for needing H2, except that a fast refill is possible *if* there were enough filling stations and the intent of the industry to make all H2 from full renewable sources. Since every H2 car on the road uses the energy of 3 similar size BEV, I am not excited about a possible prospect of H2 in the future. I think we already are living in the future with the current new crop of BEV. Only that does not fit the business model of a lot of powerful people who stand to lose money with BEV going mainstream. That is why we see a lot of negative press about BEV and attempts to thwart their progress. That is nothing new, it has happened for decades. Mark, I know you are concerned about emissions (if I remember correctly, that was your stated reason to be interested in Renewable Energy and fuel cell vehicles) but promoting a technology that uses 3 times the source energy of the alternative is not a good way to achieve lower emissions, you may even cause higher emissions from the increase in energy consumption – despite the desire to manufacture H2 using all RE. It is better to help find ways to fast charge BEV and *reduce* source energy consumption, so that the available RE can power 3 times as many vehicles. At least, that is what *I* chose to do. Regards, Cor. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Mark Abramowitz via EV Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:12 PM To: dar...@econogics.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: Mark Abramowitz Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? We’ve made incredible progress over just the last few years in greening the grid. By 2045, it should be 100% renewable. By 2030, transportation hydrogen should be 100% renewable. (BTW, if you think that nothing else has changed in hydrogen technology in the last several years, there is something wrong with your sources) - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Dec 26, 2018, at 1:34 PM, Darryl McMahon via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > We don't have to guess at the California electricity mix. > > https://www.energy.ca.gov/almanac/electricity_data/total_system_power.html > > (rounding to nearest percent for simplicity) > > 29% from renewables other than large hydro > > 15% from large hydro > > 9% from nuclear (not renewable, but reasonably low emissions impact from an > existing plant - final disposition of spent fuel still to be solved) > > 4% from coal > > 34% from natural gas (fossil) > > 9% unidentified > > That's what shows up on the grid. It does not include those producing > off-grid, or generating for in-house use (e.g. household PV used behind the > meter). > > Greener grid means greener EV use. > > As for using hydrogen as a transportation fuel for light vehicles in typical > missions (commuting, errand running, occasional longer trips), I looked into > this early in this century, and kept some track since. Things have not > changed much on the technology side in the intervening period for hydrogen > vehicles, other than using bigger storage at higher pressure. > > Darryl McMahon > Author, award-winning book: The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (2006) > (on digest mode, so don't expect quick responses) > >> On 12/26/2018 4:09 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote: >> Message: 6 >> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 20:53:47 +0000 (UTC) >> From: Lawrence Rhodes<primobass...@sbcglobal.net> >> To:ev@lists.evdl.org >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? >> Message-ID:<1956029850.2785592.1545857627...@mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> California uses mostly hydro at night.? There are natural gas plants for >> high demand.? I think that is how it works or should work.? Lawrence Rhodes > > -- > Darryl McMahon > Freelance Project Manager (sustainable systems) > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181226/17f37bf4/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
