Hello Mark, This is the type of thing us geeks seek. Feed us data!!! Here's an example:
A friend has been captivated by the use of hydrogen in an ICE by a local "genius"/entrepreneur. He referred me to the guy's website at: Victorypower.net. His system uses tungsten and extremely high temperatures to disassociate hydrogen from oxygen in water molecules. I mentioned to him that if the claims he makes are true, Venture Capitalists would be beating a path to his door. I can list a whole lot of companies that are no longer in existence that are just like this one and had reasonably viable products except for... I think my friend has drunk the kool-aid and is on his way to getting burned or at least his cash... Appreciate the reference. On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 7:59 PM Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > Mark, thanks for the reference. I just read the article > > https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/automotive-and-assembly/our-insights/hydrogen-the-next-wave-for-electric-vehicles > it's easy to read and not very long. (You also have to wonder why a > "research" article is available at no charge.) > > The article is purely speculative with not a single backed-up fact. This > is fine, but it needs to be taken for what it is. > > Actually, it is nearly devoid of facts regarding BEV and FCEV efficiency > and completely devoid of any information on production of hydrogen from > non fossil fuel sources. The majority of statements with numbers also > contains words like "could", "might", "possibly". > > The closest statements I found to presenting efficiency facts are: > > Battery electric vehicles exhibit higher overall fuel efficiency as long > as they are not too heavy due to large battery sizes > ... > Based on their entire life cycles, FCEVs achieve very low CO2 emissions, > in part because they don’t require large batteries whose production is > energy and resource intensive. > ... > Currently, each ton of CO2 saved through FCEVs is estimated to cost more > than $1,500... > > I think it's safe to say that, so far, we do not have any evidence that > technology will exist for efficiently producing hydrogen from non fossil > fuel sources. > > Peri > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Mark Abramowitz" <ma...@enviropolicy.com> > To: "Peri Hartman" <pe...@kotatko.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion > List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> > Sent: 27-Dec-18 1:34:09 PM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] fear of hydrogen infrastructure > > >Sure. > > > >“Hydrogen: The next wave for electric vehicles?” > > > >By Bernd Heid, Martin Linder, Anna Orthofer, Marcus Wilthaner > > > >I already posted the date. > > > >I haven’t read the article yet, so you’ll have to read it yourself or > wait until I have a chance. > > > >As far as the 2011 study, I only have a presentation from a DOE HTAC > meeting by Sandy Thomas, given in February, 2011. > > > >- Mark > > > >Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > > > >> On Dec 27, 2018, at 1:02 PM, Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > wrote: > >> > >> Mark, can you post the title, author(s), pub date, and include the > summary and snips of any relevant findings that address your claim? That > would help. > >> > >> Peri > >> > >> ------ Original Message ------ > >> From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> > >> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> > >> Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" <ma...@enviropolicy.com> > >> Sent: 27-Dec-18 10:51:45 AM > >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] fear of hydrogen infrastructure > >> > >>> Hi Willie, > >>> > >>> Apparently there was a study in 2011 and another in 2017 by McKinsey > & Co. > >>> > >>> The 2017 study was the subject of an article in November, 2017 in the > publication “Automotive and Assembly”. I was just sent a copy of it, but am > not sure that attachments can be posted to this list. > >>> > >>> I was also sent a presentation to the DOE on the 2011 McKinsey study. > >>> > >>> I’ve not read either one yet. > >>> > >>> Hope this helps. > >>> > >>> - Mark > >>> > >>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >>> > >>>> On Dec 26, 2018, at 5:15 PM, Willie via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On 12/26/18 7:02 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > >>>>> Certainly good points about infrastructure. But when you look at > costs at scale, I understand a recent study showed hydrogen to be cheaper, > by 3 to 1. > >>>> > >>>> That astonishing claim DEMANDS a citation. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >> > >> > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181228/f14fae60/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181228/a0bec1bc/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
