Michael, what you say is key. To summarize, self driving will be a
better choice once the risk of death or serious injury from a self
driving accident is less than the risk of death or serious injury from a
driver caused accident.
Using overall statistics, particularly the number of accidents, is
meaningless in this context.
It appears we have a long way to go before the risk level flips.
Peri
<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
------ Original Message ------
From: "Michael Ross via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Cc: "Michael Ross" <michael.e.r...@gmail.com>
Sent: 09-Aug-22 14:17:42
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla can't see kids?
As Musk likes to say, "the possibility of success exists." I imagine FSD
can be many times safer than human drivers. But, for some reason we will
always be harsher in our view of machine mistakes than our own.
If FSD was 10 times less likely to cause a fatality in all situations
(could be that expressway success is super good), it would be logical to go
with it, even if it fails sometimes with the corner cases - that even
humans fail at often. But, I doubt it would be accepted. In the US the deep
pockets of Tesla would be too much of a temptation for lawyers in the
liability business.
How about this: put little warning buzzers in us all to shock us into
alertness when we move towards danger? Oh yeah, that is the amygdala, it
has some bad results unrelated to actual danger.
On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 5:04 PM Peter Eckhoff via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:
They all have this problem in one way or another. The Bolt I owned
never saw a pedestrian except once in a Blue Moon but that was about
two years ago or so. I drive a Tesla and see some of the problems
they are talking about with regard to pedestrians. Tesla is not 100%
at all.
Personally, I don't see FSD coming to any EV especially for all
environments. There are too many niche and standard cases that have
to have to be considered in fractions of a second. From the
inattentive pedestrian, kid coming out from behind a parked car,
aggressive walker, etc. No software can read a person's mind and
intentions. We, as humans, have a hard time guessing what a person
might do.
"Driving is too important to leave it up to self driving systems by
themselves." and I think that's the bottom line. You have to make the
driver aware of situations but not take over and be a "be all" for
everything. I hope Tesla is finally learning that lesson. I'm not
sure fi Mr. Musk will ever capitulate. I hope he does.
On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 4:27 PM EV List Lackey via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:
>
> I used to worry about what it would do to EVs' reputation if someday an
> unisolated or defective charger electrocuted a kid touching the EV.
This is
> potentially almost as destructive. If further research confirms this
flaw,
> Tesla has a lot of work to do, and fast.
>
> -----
>
> Tesla´s self-driving technology fails to detect children in the road,
tests
> find
>
> Professional test driver using Tesla´s Full Self-Driving mode repeatedly
hit
> a child-sized mannequin in its path
>
> In several tests, a professional test driver found that the [FSD beta]
> software - released in June - failed to detect the child-sized figure at
an
> average speed of 25mph and the car then hit the mannequin. [...]
>
> At the company´s shareholder meeting earlier this month Musk said that
Full
> Self-Driving has greatly improved, and he expected to make the software
> available by the end of the year to all owners [who] request it. But
> questions about its safety continue to mount.
>
> In June, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said
it
> was expanding an investigation into 830,000 Tesla cars across all four
> current model lines ... A second NHTSA investigation is also under way to
> determine if the removal of the forward-looking radar sensor on some
newer
> Teslas is causing the vehicles to apply their brakes for no reason,
which is
> called "phantom braking" and can lead to wrecks. [...]
>
> Full story:
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/09/tesla-self-driving-
> technology-safety-children
>
> Shortcut URL:
>
> https://v.gd/y6Bos3
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> People don't sleep enough, and they all seem to be hunting
> something that can't be caught. You think you're the dominant
> species just because you go to the bathroom in a bowl instead
> of a box. But who's cleaning up after whom?
>
> -- Souseme, "Felines of New York"
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
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Michael E. Ross
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