On 05 Jul 2011, at 05:49, B Soroud wrote:
REx:
"Information is just that which consciousness finds meaningful."
what I want to know is when did this term enter our lexicon... the
Greeks didn't use it, nor the Romans…. I don’t recall either
Descartes, Spinoza, Leibniz, Hume… using it….
It must have started with either Kant or Hegel… Hegel for sure. We
use to use the word soul or spirit, now we like using the word
consciousness… it has become very popular. .. apparently
etymologically it is related with to know or knowing…. But like I
said… in so far as we think of “consciousness” or define
“consciousness” it instantly becomes a thought or object of
knowledge and not the real thing.
That confirms BDt -> ~Dt. (For those who have studied a little bit
the modal logic G and G*).
Actually consciousness is closer to the notion of truth, which cannot
even be expressed by the machine, unlike consistency which can be
expressed but not proved.
Bruno
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Rex Allen <rexallen31...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Constantine Pseudonymous
<bsor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Rex, your killing me, I was following you well as the most logical
> seeming person here, but then you started plummeting into
thoughtless
> absurdities....
Ha! Well, we all have our off days...
> "We can say that we have information about what we are aware
of...but
> that is not the same as saying that awareness *is* information.
>
> Information is a difference that makes a difference. But it has to
> make a difference *to* someone. "
>
> Awareness may very well be information, unless you want to make up a
> piece of information which masquerades as the entity behind
> information.
>
> You say information has to make a difference to someone... very
well,
> but that doesn't get you out of the problem of the enigma-identity
of
> this supposed someone that you think must be at the root of
> information.
Well, I can see how my use of the term “someone” might lead to
confusion.
However, I didn’t intend to imply the existence of some
“supra-experiential” entity.
My intended point was that information isn’t something that exists
separately from, or more fundamentally than conscious experience.
Information is just that which consciousness finds meaningful.
> "Information is observer-relative. Observers aren’t information-
> relative. "
>
> Don't you see your "observer" is information!
Well...no. I don’t see that. Though perhaps we’re using different
definitions of “information”.
> Moving beyond the notion
> of a observer... I would even claim that observation isn't
occurring,
> neither as a act or process or object or event.... there is merely
the
> observed.
There is merely experience.
> "Representation depends on
> me. I don’t depend on representation. "
>
> Wrong. "You" do depend on representation... but pseudo-
representation,
> "you" depend on a pseudo-representation or a non-representational
> invented pseudo-representation.
Psuedo-representation?
> "Representation is
> something you do, not something that you are. "
>
> Well then what are you!
Consciousness.
Rex
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