On 06 Nov 2011, at 21:18, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/6/2011 1:54 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Quentin,
On 30 Oct 2011, at 23:51, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
benjayk:
On the other hand, I don't see why we would ignore immortality of
consciousness, considering that the "I" is just a psychosocial
construct/illusion anyway. We don't find an actual "I" anywhere.
It seems
very relevant to know that the actual essence of experience can
indeed
survive eternally. Why would I care whether an imagined "I"
experiences it
or not?
How would you call this, if not immortality?
Death.
Quentin,
Could you imagine making a dream where you are someone else?
Can you imagine waking up, and remembering your life as a dream,
and at the same time remembering "the" previous life?
I don't think I can. My "previous life" is too detailed complete
and driven decisions I've made for it to be a dream.
Exactly. And that is what you remember in this thought experience. And
compared to it, your "current life" might seem incoherent and fuzzy.
I think we can dissociate from memories. I think we can identifying
our identity, if I can say, with something deeper than the memories.
"Deeper" than conscious memeories, but there's a lot more to
memories than consciousness. You can ride a bicycle with
remembering how to do it consciously. What strikes you as good and
valuable was learned at some time.
Not necessarily. Truth might be good before we learn it. And when did
we learn them. Some truth has learn by humans only through their very
long history. Plato intuited this in his reminiscence theory.
Science has not yet decided between Plato and Aristotle's metaphysic.
I think Aristotle metaphysics is hard to sustain given the facts.
Bruno
Brent
Memories are important, if only to avoid painful loops, and to
progress, which is the making of histories. But like bodies, it
makes sense that we own them, we are not them, I mean, not
necessarily are we them.
We might be more our possible values, than the past local
necessities. We might be more what we do with the memories
than the memories themselves, which are very contingent and local.
Perhaps we should allow ourselves thought experiences with amnesia,
and dissociation. We practice dissociation and re-association all
night, but usually we forget all of this.
Who are we?
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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