On May 5, 1:51 pm, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>wrote: > > > So you agree that it is impossible to have something come from nothing. > > That depends on what you mean by "nothing". > 1) Lack of matter, a vacuum. > 2) Lack of matter and energy > 3) Lack of matter and energy and space > 4) Lack of matter and energy and space and time. > 5) Lack of even the potential to produce something.
For me it's simpler, because I think that energy is only the experience of matter, time is the experience of relating sets of experiences to each other, and space is the experience of relating materials to each other. Nothing only has to mean lack of experience of any kind. > > Science has valuable things to say about how something can come from > nothing in all senses of the word "nothing" except for #5, I have no problem with the idea that the current form of the universe evolved from simpler forms. I don't think that many people do. Without #5 though, the scientific cosmology is no better than any other creation myth. It's more sophisticated, but no closer to explaining why anything is created at all. > and nobody else > can say anything about that either, not even God, No. I say something about that. I have explained that causality itself is an epiphenomenon of time which is an emergent property of experience or sense which is primordial. Sense is primordial not because I can't think of how to explain it, but because I understand what it actually is and how it relates to nothingness and singularity/ totality. I don't need anyone else's explanation, or God. > so that topic is a big > bore. This is all explained in much greater detail in the book, WHICH YOU > HAVE NOT READ. The book explains why it's own critical flaws are boring to point out, hahaha. That's one way of stifling dissent. My views are explained on my website WHICH YOU HAVE NOT READ. So what? > > > I think of them as incredibly shallow questions. > > So you think explaining how from a few simple rules matter energy time and > space turned into something while other things did not is not only shallow > but incredibly shallow. Oh, it's a great achievement, just as building a house out of matchsticks or inventing the compass or something would be, but they aren't particularly meaningful achievements as far as addressing the depth of our experience. > The only logical conclusion I can form from that > is that somebody who really believes that is a incredibly shallow person. That would be a simplistic logic which comes to such a knee-jerk judgment. > > > it's complete hype to claim that the universe comes from nothing. It's a > > slogan to sell books. > > I don't mind ignorance in general but there is a form of aggressive > ignorance I find distasteful, somebody who feels they don't need to know > all that highfalutin book learning, somebody so ignorant they don't know > they're ignorant, somebody who feels their comments on a well respected > physicist's book are worth sharing with others even though THEY HAVE NOT > READ THE BOOK. Do you read Christian Apologetics? Theology? Art history? Literary theory? Do you think that you aren't ignorant, or that your ignorance isn't distasteful? My criticisms stand. The title of the book is horseshit, and you know it. > > > > I get the gist. > > BULLSHIT! Anybody who says these are "incredibly shallow questions" is a > fool. Full stop. They are shallow to me. I'm not an engineer. I don't care about the mechanism of the universe, I care only about the biggest possible picture. I didn't mean to imply that others can't find them deep. Some people find the study of sand deep. I was responding to your accusations that questioning what it really means for something to come from nothing is shallow. Some people do find it shallow. To me those people are missing the bigger picture, but maybe they can't help it. > > > > I only point out as a fact that the universe could not come from > > something. > > I see, so the universe can't come from nothing and now it can't come from > something either, so obviously the universe does not exist and never has. > Isn't philosophy wonderful. Sorry that was a typo. It should be nothing instead of something. > > >http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-consolation-of-p... > > > http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/04/has-physics-mad... > > > >There is nothing surprising in either of these articles. > > I would bet money you haven't read either one and at most skimmed them for > 20 seconds; reading the actual book is of course out of the question, that > would take away too much time contemplating your navel. To me it's like arguing with a Christian fundamentalist who demands I read the bible to understand his arguments. If your understanding of their contents doesn't give you anything to say on the subject that is remotely convincing or surprising to me in any way, why would I bother chasing your views down for you? Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
