Hi Bruno Marchal and meekerdb,
ROGER: Hi meekerdb
First, science can only work with quantity, not quality, so
it only works with half a brain.
MEEKERDB: Bad decision. You are the one cutting the "corpus callosum" here.
ROGER: You have to. Quantity is an objective measure, quality is a subjective
measure.
Apples and oranges.
Secondly, meaning is not a scientific category. So science
can neither make nor understand meaningful statements.
Logic has the same fatal problem.
BRUNO ?: Not at all. Logic handle both syntactical or digital transformations,
and its
"dual" the corresponding semantical adjoint transformation. There is proof
theory and model theory.
Meaning is handle by non syntactical mathematical structures. There are many
branches in
logic, and semantic, alias Model Theory, is one of them.
ROGER: Those are all tools for working with objective data such as numbers or
written words.
Then what do you do with subjective data ? Obviously you must throw it out.
BRUNO To separate science from religion looks nice, but it consists in
encouraging nonsense in religion, and in science eventually.
ROGER: Religion deals mainly with subjective issues such as values. morality,
salvation, forgiveness.
These are inextended or nonphysical human/divine issues.
The Bible was not written as a scientific textbook, but as a manual oof faith
and moral practice.
Science deals entirely with objective issues such as facts, quantity, numbers,
physical data.
BRUNO: Science cannot answer the religious question, nor even the human
question,
nor even the machine question, but it *can* reduce the nonsense.
Bruno
ROGER: You can try, which is what atheists do. As I say, there are a few errors
in facts in the Bible.
But physics and chemistry have no capabability of dealing with meaning, value,
morality, salvation, etc.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/12/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: meekerdb
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-11, 12:47:05
Subject: Re: victims of faith
On 9/11/2012 5:58 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
>> Hi meekerdb
>>
>> Science is science and religion is religion
>> and never the two shall meet.
>
> I'm not sure about this Roger. The goal of a true science and true
> religion, in my opinion, is the search of truth. In the Bah ' Faith,
> it is said that a true science and true religion can never be in
> conflict.
The Pope says the same about Catholicism. But that didn't keep the Church from
saying
heliocentrism was false, evolution didn't happen, disease is caused by sin,...
The
problem with religion is that it doesn't test it's 'facts'.
Brent
To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous
as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin.
--- Cardinal Bellarmine, 1615, letter to Paolo Frascioni
"The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an
atheist deserving of punishment.
---Sheik Abdel-Aziz ibn Baaz, the supreme religious authority of
Saudi Arabia, 1993, quoted by Yousef M. Ibrahim,
The New York Times, 12 February 1993 Yes, that's 1993 CE, not BCE.
> The son of the founder of the Bah ' Faith said, "If
> religion were contrary to logical reason then it would cease to be a
> religion and be merely a tradition. Religion and science are the two
> wings upon which man's intelligence can soar into the heights, with
> which the human soul can progress. ... All religions of the present
> day have fallen into superstitious practices, out of harmony alike
> with the true principles of the teaching they represent and with the
> scientific discoveries of the time.
>
> We see this same sentiment expressed by Einstein, when he said,
> ?cience without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
>
> Jason
>
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