On 21 Sep 2012, at 21:27, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
On 19.09.2012 00:57 meekerdb said the following:
On 9/17/2012 11:27 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
Do you mean that the meaning in a guided missile system happens
as by-product of its development by engineers?
To me, it seems that meaning that you have defined in Mars
Rovers is yet another theory of epiphenomenalism.
And your quote and question are yet another example of "nothing
buttery" and argument by incredulity.
Brent
I am not sure if I understand you. I am not saying that I am right
but I really do not understand you point. You say
"Consciousness and computation are given their meaning by their
effecting actions in the world."
and it seems that you imply that this could be applied for a robot
as well. My thought were that engineers who have design a robot
know everything how it is working.
But they don't a robot, even one as simple as a Mars Rover perceives
and acts on things the engineers don't know. A more advanced robot
will also learn from experience and become as unpredictable as a
person from the engineer's standpoint.
Okay, let us take more advanced robots. I guess that
Dario Floreano and Claudio Mattiussi, Bio-Inspired Artificial
Intelligence: Theories, Methods, and Technologies
should be perfect here. You will find in the book about learning in
behavioral systems. Yet, the authors do not use the term
consciousness at all. They even talk about intelligence just once
Conclusion, p. 585 : “A careful reader have noticed that we have not
yet defined what intelligence is. This was done on purpose because
intelligence has different meanings for different persons and in
different situations. For example, some believe that intelligence is
the ability to be creative; other think that it is the ability to
make predictions; and others believe that intelligence exists only
in the eye of the observer. In this book we have shown that
biological and artificial intelligence manifests itself though
multiple processes and mechanisms that interact at different spatial
and temporal scales to produce emergent and functional behavior. The
most important implication of the approaches presented here is that
understanding and engineering intelligence does not reduce to
replicating a mammalian brain in a computer but requires also
capturing multiply types and levels of interactions, such as those
between brains and bodies, individual and societies, learning and
behavior, evolution and development, self-protection and self-
repair, to mention a few”.
Hence, again let us imagine that a robot with artificial neural
networks developed as described in the book can learn something
indeed. In the book there are even examples in this respect. Yet,
the engineers developing it have not even thought about
consciousness. Hence, in my view, if consciousness happens to be in
such a robot, then we could talk without a problem about
epiphenomenalism. Why not?
I have seen a project where engineers at least talk about a module
QUALIA
http://www.mindconstruct.com/
“MIND|CONSTRUCT is developing a ‘strong-AI engine’, a so called AI-
mind, that can be used in (human-like) robotics, healthcare,
aerospace sciences and every other area where ‘conscious’ man-
machine interaction is of any importance.
The MIND|CONSTRUCT organization is the culmination of many years in
AI-research and the so called ‘hard-problems’, and the application
of elaborate experience in knowledge-management, for the design and
development of a ‘strong-AI engine’.“
If consciousness happens here, then we could at least find that it
was planned this way.
It is part of what a machine is that we cannot know what we are doing
in building them, so human might as well build a conscious machine
without knowing it; except later, when the machine complains or fight
for its right.
Comp is rather negative on the idea of programming consciousness. We
can only let consciousness manifest itself, or not. Or we can copy
intelligent machine, partially or completely.
Bruno
Evgenii
--
http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2011/03/intelligence.html
http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/05/mindconstruct.html
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