Bruno, Well if you do not need any substances at all, that includes electrons, protons, neutrons, neutrinos, dark matter and energy as well as particles of the mind. So if any of these so-called substances have any existence at all, then I bet that they all do, which is all I need for my metaphysics string theory models. It's like saying that god is everything, which is next to saying nothing. Richard
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > On 11 Oct 2012, at 17:39, Richard Ruquist wrote: > > Bruno: BEC are Turing emulable, so you can't get substance dualism, > > Richard: Please explain why not. > > > It is the object of the UD Argument. If there is a level where my body/brain > (whatever it is) is Turing emulable, then the physical reality *has to* > emerges from the first person indeterminacy applied to the UD* (the complete > infinite running of the UD), or to any Turing-complete ontology. > > So we don't need, and worst: we can't use, anything more than the numbers > and the laws of + and * (to choose a simple Turing universal ontology). > There is no substances at all, unless you use the terms (like Roger) in its > greek sense of hypostases, and which in comp are machine's point of view > (except for "truth"). > > It is long to explain and not trivial. I have explained this many times on > this list, and recently on the FOAR list which might be easier to consult. > Or you can look at my paper: > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/publications/SANE2004MARCHALAbstract.html > > Or other paper that you can find on my URL. > > But, if you want I can explain it step by step, tell me, and be patient, as > I am in a super-busy period. > > Bruno > > > > > On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > > On 10 Oct 2012, at 18:47, Richard Ruquist wrote: > > > Craig, > > > I claim that a connection is needed in substance dualism between the > > substance of the mind and the substance of the brain. That is, if > > consciousness resides in a BEC in the brain and also in the mind, then > > the two can become entangled and essentially be copies of each other. > > So the BEC connection mechanism supports substance dualism. > > > Substance dualism then solves the hard problem using string theory > > monads.. > > > For example take the binding problem where: > > "There are an almost infinite number of possible, different > > objects we are capable of seeing, There cannot be a single > > neuron, often referred to as a grandmother cell, for each > > one." (http://papers.klab.caltech.edu/22/1/148.pdf) > > However, at a density of 10^90/cc > > (from string theory; e.g., ST Yau, The Shape of Inner Space), > > the binding problem can be solved by configurations of monads for > > "all different values of depth, motion, color, and spatial > > location" > > ever sensed. (I have a model that backs this up: > > > http://yanniru.blogspot.com/2012/04/implications-of-conjectured-megaverse.html) > > > So the monads and the neurons experience the same things > > because of the BEC entanglement connection. > > These experiences are stored physically in short-term memory > > that Crick and Kock claim is essential to physical consciousness > > and the experiences in my model are also stored in the monads > > perhaps to solve the binding problem > > and at least for computational support of physical consciousness. > > Richard > > > > > BEC are Turing emulable, so you can't get substance dualism, only, by making > > the level that low, you can get, perhaps, that substance dualism will look > > "very probable" in our neighborhood. > > > Bruno > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:51:50 AM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: > > > > Roger, > > > To say that a connection is based on logic is a category error. > > > More specifically, > > I conjecture that the connection in the brain between the physical brain > > and the (computational?) mind/monads is based on BEC entanglement. > > BEC stands for Bose-Einstein Condensate. > > > It has been demonstrated experimentally that BECs made of different > > substances > > can become entangled. I claim based on string theory that the monads > > are a BEC since they came from space. They are compactified space, > > crystalline in form and essentially motionless. Presumably there is > > also a physical BEC in the brain. > > > So if my conjecture is correct, that disparate BECs, even the monad > > BEC is substantive, > > are capable of entanglement, which of course is all logical, then the > > connection is based on entanglement. To say that a connection is based > > on logic is a category error. > > Richard > > > > What advantage does a BEC explanation really have over substance dualism > > though? How dies it solve the hard problem? Why do BECs experience things > > and nothing else does? > > > Craig > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/kEWP_Mi0G4IJ. > > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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