On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 01:56:14PM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: > Hi Russell Standish > > I apologize for using two different concepts of > creation of structure from randomness.
Its good to clarify these thoughts. Great! > > There are two types of creation of structure: > by life, where there is an agent or self to create things, > and by a computer program, where creation is mechanical. > Not just a computer program. Physical systems can self-organise in purely mechanical ways too - eg Per Bak's sandpile, or Benard cells. > Self-organization is purely mechanical and does not require > nor does it have a self. It just uses a computer program > written elsewhere. But photosynthesis is by a living cell > entity. The organization of light into cell structure is > not self-organization, which is purely mechanical. > I wouldn't be so sure that photosynthesis isn't a purely mechanical process in your classification. Certainly, it is about as agent-like as some computer programs. > > Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net > 10/18/2012 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen > > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: Russell Standish > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2012-10-17, 17:39:38 > Subject: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive > > > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 06:54:31AM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: > > Hi Russell Standish > > > > Creating structure out of a random environment > > requires intelligence, the ability to make choices > > on one's own. Self-organization does not have > > that capacity, it merely follows a computer program. > > So self-organization programs cannot be alive, > > having no intelligence and no free will. In short, > > they have no self. Instead, they are slaved to a computer > > programmer. > > > > This is confusing. How do you explain how self-organisation creates > structure from initially disordered states? > > In the first sentence, you claim this requires intelligence. In the > second sentence, you claim self-organisation is not. > > This is a contradiction. > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > Principal, High Performance Coders > Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au > University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
