On 05 Nov 2012, at 13:48, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
Isn't strong AI just an assumption ?
Yes. Comp too. The existence of the moon also.
The fact that I am conscious, can only be an assumption for you, and
vice versa.
The only thing which is not an assumption is private consciousness.
All the rest are assumptions.
Strictly speaking.
Science uses only assumption and develop only *relative* certainty. A
difficulty comes from the fact that the brain wired in us already many
assumptions, which we are not conscious of the hypothetical nature.
for example some birds assumes that the first things they see moving
after birth is their parent, and we tend to do the same. But having
parent is of the type "theoretical hypotheses".
Bruno
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
11/5/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-11-04, 09:43:16
Subject: Re: (mathematical) solipsism
On 03 Nov 2012, at 13:00, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 11/3/2012 5:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
[SPK] In the absence of a means to determine some property, it is
incoherent and sometimes inconsistent to claim that the property has
some particular value and the absence of all other possible values.
In math this is called (mathematical) solipsism.
Dear Bruno,
How is it solipsism? Solipsism is: "Solipsism is the
philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. The
term comes from the Latin solus (alone) and ipse (self). Solipsism
as an epistemological position holds that knowledge of anything
outside one's own mind is unsure. The external world and other minds
cannot be known, and might not exist outside the mind. As a
metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that
the world and other minds do not exist."
My point is that numbers, by your notion of AR, are solipsistic
as there is literally nothing other than the numbers. I reject AR
because of this! Numbers alone cannot do what you propose.
Comp entails Strong AI, which attributes consciousness to machines,
and thus to others. You argument is not valid because it beg the
question that number (related through the laws of + and *) emulated
computation to which comp attribute consciousness. So comp is not
solipsism.
Bruno
This post argues similar to my point:
http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=5944965
"Conventional solipsism is a logical philosophy whose underlying views
apply equally to mathematical philosophies of neopythagoreanism and
neoplatonism as well as mathematical realism and empiricism generally.
The well established philosophical principle of solipsism is that only
the individual is or can be demonstrated to exist. But the problem is
that if this principle were actually demonstrably true it would also
make it false because the "truth" established would ipso facto make
the principle beyond control of any individual.
Nobody really thinks solipsism is true. But the difficulty is no one
can prove or disprove the concept because no one can prove the
foundations of truth in absolute, necessary, and universal terms."
This article http://digitalcommons.macalester.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1020&context=philo
argues against the claim that Intuitionism is solipsistic. I reject
Intuitionism as a singular coherent theory of mathematics, but I do
accept it as a member of the pantheon of "interpretations" of
mathematics.
--
Onward!
Stephen
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