Hi Bruno Marchal The senses convert the phenomenol space-time "world out there" into nonphysical perceived entities which are stored internally as memories.
A memory is experienced internally, so no space-time. Then one might say that 1p is the black box that converts MY view of the physical into its corresponding personal nonphysical state. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/16/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-15, 08:47:49 Subject: Re: MWI as an ontological error, it should be TwoAspects Theory On 13 Jan 2013, at 20:05, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:57:48 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Jan 2013, at 13:01, Telmo Menezes wrote: Hi Roger, How can you have a wave without some notion of spatial/temporal dimensions? I don't see why we cannot have purely mathematical waves (easily related to lines and circles), Lines and circles are spatial geometries. They can, but usually I take them as deeper than geometry, but then "geometry" is a word having many interpretation too. and physical waves, like water wave or tsunami, or sound waves. A propagating wave is a sort of oscillation contagious to its neighborhood. All of those are spatio-temporal sensory experiences and presences. I don't think that an experience can be spatio-temporal. With comp I argued that space-time emerges from coherence conditions on "deep dreams/computations". It looks like you are working in a theory which assume some primitive space time. A purely mathematical wave which is independent of all spatial or temporal representation can only be a figurative wave. If you have concretely real substances in 'space' or concretely real experiences in 'time' then you can have a figurative language which refers to the wavy qualities which we infer through sense as being correlated on either side of the public-private range of presentation. This wavy-ness is an idea, a metaphorical figure which we use to re-present the commonality which we understand internally but as an exteriorized, generic symbol. As you know, with comp, it is the "concrete real substance" which belong to the (quite useful locally) metaphors. Once we have formalized this synthetic wave figure quantitatively, we can do all kinds of incredible things with it, just as a painter uses a certain kind of brushstroke. But the strokeness isn't a thing itself - it has no power to do anything by itself, it is pure fiction (albeit fiction which is informative about sense on all levels of realism, but only from the fictional 3p voyeur perspective). That is coherent with non-comp, indeed. But I have no faith in substances. Bruno Craig Summing waves gives arbitrary functions (in some functional spaces), so simple wave can be see as the base in the space of "arbitrary" functions (for reasonable functional spaces, there are any natural restrictions here). The whole problem with QM, is that the wave's physical interpretation is an amplitude of probability, and that we can make them interfere as if they were physical. But in MWI, the quantum waves are just the map of the relative accessible physical realities. An electronic orbital is a map of where you can find an electron, for an example. I would say it is something physical (even if it emerges from the non physical relations between numbers). Bruno On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi everything-list, I don't believe that Descartes would accept the MWI. Here's why: I think that the ManyWorldsInterpretation of QM is incorrect, due to the mistaken notion (IMHO) that quantum waves are physical waves, so that everything is physical and materialistic. This seems to deny "quantum weirdness" observed in the two-slit experiment. Seemingly if both the wave and the photon are physical, there should be nothing weird happening. My own view is that the weirdness arises because the waves and the photons are residents of two completely different but interpenetrating worlds, where: 1) the photon is a resident of the physical world, where by physical I mean (along with Descartes) "extended in space", 2) the quantum wave in nonphysical, being a resident of the nonphysical world (the world of mind), which has no extension in space. Under these conditions, there is no need to create an additional physical world, since each can exist as aspects of the the same world, one moving in spactime and being physical, the other, like mind, moving simulataneously in the nonphysical world beyond spacetime. [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 1/12/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/lHOj0lxxoIkJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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