I say discrete digital fermionic particles of any kind are substances. whereas continuous analog quantum bosonic loops, and waves and fields are not. Richard
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote: > Hi Bruno Marchal > > Good question. It's a difficult question to answer, but here's > my best answer at present. > > Monads or substances are the fundamental entites of Leibniz's universe. > They are all substances of one part. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Here's Bertrand Russell's view of Leibniz's definition of substance > > http://www.ditext.com/russell/leib1.html#3 > > > "Every proposition has a subject and a predicate. > A subject may have predicates which are qualities existing at various times. > (Such a subject is called a substance.) " > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The phrase " predicates which are qualities existing at various times" > gets me off the hook with regard to wavicles and numbers. Both quanta and > numbers are substances of one part and so are monads. And all monads, > whatever they be, > must have a fixed identity. > > Subject predicate(s) > (of fixed identity) > > ordinary matter always both 1. physcal matter 2. mental matter > wavicle either 1. physical matter or 2. mental > (quantum) matter > numbers always 2. mental matter. > > > [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] > 1/14/2013 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: Bruno Marchal > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2013-01-13, 11:57:48 > Subject: Re: MWI as an ontological error, it should be TwoAspects Theory > > > On 12 Jan 2013, at 13:01, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > Hi Roger, > > How can you have a wave without some notion of spatial/temporal dimensions? > > > > I don't see why we cannot have purely mathematical waves (easily related to > lines and circles), and physical waves, like water wave or tsunami, or sound > waves. > A propagating wave is a sort of oscillation contagious to its neighborhood. > > Summing waves gives arbitrary functions (in some functional spaces), so > simple wave can be see as the base in the space of "arbitrary" functions > (for reasonable functional spaces, there are any natural restrictions here). > > The whole problem with QM, is that the wave's physical interpretation is an > amplitude of probability, and that we can make them interfere as if they > were physical. But in MWI, the quantum waves are just the map of the > relative accessible physical realities. An electronic orbital is a map of > where you can find an electron, for an example. > I would say it is something physical (even if it emerges from the non > physical relations between numbers). > > Bruno > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote: >> >> Hi everything-list, >> >> I don't believe that Descartes would accept the MWI. >> Here's why: >> >> I think that the ManyWorldsInterpretation of QM is incorrect, >> due to the mistaken notion (IMHO) that quantum waves >> are physical waves, so that everything is physical and materialistic. >> >> This seems to deny "quantum weirdness" observed >> in the two-slit experiment. Seemingly if both the wave >> and the photon are physical, there should be nothing weird >> happening. >> >> My own view is that the weirdness arises because the >> waves and the photons are residents of two completely >> different but interpenetrating worlds, where: >> >> 1) the photon is a resident of the physical world, >> where by physical I mean (along with Descartes) >> "extended in space", >> >> 2) the quantum wave in nonphysical, being a resident of >> the nonphysical world (the world of mind), which has no >> extension in space. >> >> Under these conditions, there is no need >> to create an additional physical world, since each >> can exist as aspects of the the same world, >> one moving in spactime and being physical, the other, like >> mind, moving simulataneously in the nonphysical world >> beyond spacetime. >> >> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] >> 1/12/2013 >> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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