----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-20, 07:01:56
Subject: Re: Escaping from the world of 3p Flatland
On 18 Jan 2013, at 13:29, Roger Clough wrote:
> Hi Russell Standish
>
> Firstness is the mode of being of that which is such as it is,
> positively and without reference to anything else.
This can make sense. We can relate this with the common notion of
subjectivity.
> Secondness is the mode of being of that which is such as it is,
with
> respect to a second but regardless of any third.
Hmm... Why not, but I don't see this as fundamental. It can be
distracting.
> Thirdness is the mode of being of that which is such as it is, in
> bringing a second and third into relation to each other."
OK. Then with comp "thirdness" is arithmetic (and physics is,
counter-
intuitively, still 1p, hopefully plural). The physical is a mode of
being which is *not* such as it is.
Bruno
>
> I believe 1p is Firstness (raw experience of cat) + Secondness
> (identification of the image "cat" with the word "cast" to
oneself)
> and 3p = Thirdness (expression of "cat" to others)
>
>
> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
>
>
>
> Peirce
> Peirce, being a pragmatist, described perception according to what
> happened
> at each stage,1/18/2013
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> From: Russell Standish
> Receiver: everything-list
> Time: 2013-01-17, 17:17:11
> Subject: Re: Re: Escaping from the world of 3p Flatland
>
>
> Hi John,
>
> My suspicion is that Roger is so keen to impose a Piercean triadic
> view on things that he has omitted to make the necessary
connection
> with the normal meaning of 1p/3p as standing for subjective/
objective.
>
> Cheers
>
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 04:55:17PM -0500, John Mikes wrote:
>> Russell,
>> I reflect after a long-long time to your post. I had a war on my
>> hand about
>> objective and subjective, fighting for the latter, since we are
>> 'us' and
>> cannot be 'them'. I never elevated to the mindset of Lady Welby
>> 1904, who -
>> maybe? - got it what 2p was.
>> My vocabulary allows me to consider what "I consider" (=1p) and
I may
>> communicat it (still 1p) to anybody else, who receives it as a 3p
>> communication and acknowledges it into HIS 1p way adjusted and
>> reformed
>> into it. There is no other situation I can figure. Whatever I
>> 'read' or
>> 'hear' is 3p for me and I do the above to it to get it into my 1p
>> mindset.
>> No 2p to my knowledge. Could you improve upon my ignorance?
>> John Mikes
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 1:21 AM, Russell Standish wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 08:29:52AM -0500, Roger Clough wrote:
>>>> Hi Russell Standish
>>>>
>>>> 2p should be a necessary part of comp, espcially if it uses
>>>> synthetic
>>> logic.
>>>> It doesn't seem to be needed for deductive logic, however.
>>>>
>>>> The following equivalences should hold between comp
>>>> and Peirce's logical categories:
>>>>
>>>> 3p = Thirdness or III
>>>> 2p = Secondness or II
>>>> 1p = Firstness or I.
>>>>
>>>> Comp seems to only use analytic or deductive logic,
>>>> while Peirce's categories are epistemological (synthetic
>>>> logic) categories, in which secondness is an integral part.
>>>> So .
>>>>
>>>> Here's what Peirce has to say about his categorioes:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.helsinki.fi/science/commens/terms/secondness.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Firstness is the mode of being of that which is such as it is,
>>>> positively and without reference to anything else.
>>>>
>>>> Secondness is the mode of being of that which is such as it is,
>>>> with respect to a second but regardless of any third.
>>>>
>>>> Thirdness is the mode of being of that which is such as it is,
>>>> in bringing a second and third into relation to each other."
>>>> (A Letter to Lady Welby, CP 8.328, 1904)"
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the definition, but how does that relate to 1p and
3p? I
>>> cannot see anything in the definitions of firstness and
thirdness
>>> that
>>> relate to subjectivity and objectivity.
>>>
>>> As I said before, I do not even know what 2p could be.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
>>> Principal, High Performance Coders
>>> Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
>>> University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>>>
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> Principal, High Performance Coders
> Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
> University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au
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