Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

[Bruno Marchal]

On 09 Feb 2013, at 11:05, Telmo Menezes wrote:



On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com>  
wrote:


2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
I totally agree with that, what I don't agree is when you say the  
moment you're becoming Telmo again, you should lose *all* cat  
memories/feeling... I totally disagree with that unless you have  
some proof it should be so.

Sure, I have no proof, I'm just speculating. But what I'm  
speculating is the following:

- You need a significant part of the brain of the cat to be able to  
understand its memories;
- You need a significant part of the brain of Telmo to have Telmo  
feel like he remembers something;
- For Telmo to remember cat memories, you need both brains and an  
interface between them -- this would result in a new entity that is  
neither Telmo nor the cat.

The problem is that we don't know the comp subst level of the cat, but  
for Telmo to, to have the experience of the cat, would be like a sort  
of amnesia of what humans learned since they were equivalent to cat in  
complexity in their past lives, and then having experience like  
climbing trees, etc. Then, if the amnesia was just a memory  
dissociation, you can wake up and see it like dream, where you can  
remember having different memories.
We can't be sure that it was a cat experience, but it *might* be, or  
close enough to make sense to Quentin's proposition.
It might be harder for a cat to "dream" having a human experience, as  
our brain are reasonably more complex than the cat experience, though.  
But even this might still be conceptually possible, except that waking  
up, that cat has become a human (unless he forgets the whole dream).

Bruno









Quentin

My argument is based on abstract CS, not hard drives or other  
technicalities.


write-only does not have to be for everybody. But it's still a  
technical disgression and it is discussing the number of angels on a  
pin for now.

I think it's a deep question.

It's not unless you have good working knowledge of the question.



Also, the fact that you can't imagine a solution yourself, doesn't  
mean there isn't one, lack of imagination is also not an argument.

I agree, but it's an intuition.

Well...

Quentin



Regards,
Quentin



Regards,
Quentin

For example, to store the memories on how a cat feels about climbing  
a tree, I would have to access my human representation of a tree to  
connect the memories to it, but accessing my human representation of  
a tree would spoil my cat experience.


Regards,
Quentin



And yes I think there are degrees and kinds of consciousness and  
that a cat's consciousness differs in both respects.  There's  
consciousness of being an individual and of being located in 3-space  
and in time.  You and the cat have both of those (whereas a Mars  
rover only has the latter).  But there's language and narrative     
memory that you have and the cat doesn't.  There's reflective  
thought,"I'm Telmo and I'm thinking about myself and where I fit in  
the world".  The cat probably doesn't have this because it's not  
social - but a dog might.

But is this really a case of "degrees of consciousness" or is it  
just the general property of "being conscious" instantiated in  
different contexts? The fact that you believe you can turn me into a  
cat seems to indicate that ultimately you believe that consciousness  
is all the same.


Brent

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