Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

[Bruno Marchal]

On 09 Feb 2013, at 23:38, Telmo Menezes wrote:



On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com>  
wrote:

<snip>

If you're still want to go on the technical detail, then give real  
technical insight of how the mind works and what can really prevent  
that

One insight is that the human brains stores information in an  
associative, decentralised memory. The way it retrieves information  
is by walking through a network of associations. Every new  
information I experience is stored in relation to my personal diary.  
Me and the cat have different personal diaries. What I'm proposing  
-- and it's not a technical argument -- is that to _know_ how it  
feels to be a cat you would have to receive information in relation  
to the cat's personal diary, and that the presence of your own  
personal diary would spoil the experience, because then you also see  
things from you perspective and not the pure 1p cat perspective. I'm  
not saying, however, that it is impossible to somehow inject  
memories into my brain that are translations of the cat's memory  
into my own context.

(no, you're lack of knowledge is not argument against it).

I never used my lack of knowledge as an argument -- although it's  
abundant in many ways. I said I don't know of an algorithm that can  
write new information to a coherent memory without also reading it.  
But I was being polite. I believe nobody can produce such an  
algorithm.

But you can read memory and forget it, or even read memory without  
making it personal, and so disconnect them from other memories.
In practice, we can't both do it and prove that we have done it, but  
that's different. It can be done in principle. I would say.

Bruno




Cheers,
Telmo.


Regards,
Quentin

this would result in a new entity that is neither Telmo nor the cat.



Quentin

My argument is based on abstract CS, not hard drives or other  
technicalities.


write-only does not have to be for everybody. But it's still a  
technical disgression and it is discussing the number of angels on a  
pin for now.

I think it's a deep question.

It's not unless you have good working knowledge of the question.



Also, the fact that you can't imagine a solution yourself, doesn't  
mean there isn't one, lack of imagination is also not an argument.

I agree, but it's an intuition.

Well...

Quentin



Regards,
Quentin



Regards,
Quentin

For example, to store the memories on how a cat feels about climbing  
a tree, I would have to access my human representation of a tree to  
connect the memories to it, but accessing my human representation of  
a tree would spoil my cat experience.


Regards,
Quentin



And yes I think there are degrees and kinds of consciousness and  
that a cat's consciousness differs in both respects.  There's  
consciousness of being an individual and of being located in 3-space  
and in time.  You and the cat have both of those (whereas a Mars  
rover only has the latter).  But there's language and narrative  
memory that you have and the cat doesn't.  There's reflective  
thought,"I'm Telmo and I'm thinking about myself and where I fit in  
the world".  The cat probably doesn't have this because it's not  
social - but a dog might.

But is this really a case of "degrees of consciousness" or is it  
just the general property of "being conscious" instantiated in  
different contexts? The fact that you believe you can turn me into a  
cat seems to indicate that ultimately you believe that consciousness  
is all the same.


Brent

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